RWC 2019 SF2: SA vs Wales

[Lorenzo]

I actually like the diversity of styles amongst the teams. Many sports lack that, and all the teams become homogenous. In any event, even amongst teams thay run the ball a lot, there plenty of tests thay are far less exciting than Eng V NZ was.

Any one that watched June tests in the 10 years between 96 and 06 would know thay the wobs were masters at playing down to their opposotin too.

South Africa is an immensely adaptable side. My guess is that they played the way they did tonight because it was the lowest risk method of getting through. I'd also say the margin wasn't as comfortable as Erasmus would have liked, but they got through. And to some degree, I applaud that. It shows an appreciation of the task at hand. Every 1st tier team has one goal, and that's to win the tournament. It's not to go down as plucky but losing entertainers.

The other thing I like is that because or their kicking game, defence and pack, you have to actually be on your game to beat them. Your kick return is going to be tested. Your high ball return is going to be tested. Your pack is going to get tested. Your attacking patience and ability to adapt when making no progress is going to be tested. If England can do all of that, whilst under pressure as (likelt) facourites, hey will be in good shape. If they cant, well, we will see.

Bring on Saturday!

 

[PaarlBok]

Just glad we got to the final. We dont need much motivation against England. I'l take box kicks, anything just to win it.

 

[Dan54]

my son and I were wondering during the game, has Pollard been trying to have it away with Faf's missus? It was bloody funny in first 40, he almost looked like he was ignoring Pollard, he actually passed him the ball twice in the first 40. Well the Boks are in final and deserved it, I not sure I will watch too many replays of that game though,
.

 

[Tex]

SF rugby is about winning, not playing pretty.

I dis enjoy the irony of the only SA try coming after a strategic masterpiece, where after umpteen kicks and forward truck-ups, both Pollard and De-Allende surprised all 29 other plays by actually running into gaps and making metres.

Shit house display of rugby but we all knew it would look like that.

 

[Brumby Runner]

In a game mostly bereft of anything resembling attack, PSDT was immense in defense. It will be a good match up next week against Itoje. At this stage, I am leaning towards England to win with a superior game plan and better coaches preparing the team.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

It's the rush defence, employed by Wales and England to different ends. Cheika tried to beat it with flat, late, impeccably timed passing in high traffic (See TLC - Waterfalls). New Zealand didn't have a discernable plan for it against England. It draws expansive teams into making errors, and draws traditionally 'keep it in tight' teams like SA into playing 9 man rugby. For the record I see nothing wrong with watching forwards slug it out.

Difference between Wales and England is the reverse of the historical status quo - Wales seem to use it to draw teams into a quagmire of messy breakdowns (and scrums) with players laying all over the shop; England seem far more ruthless at the breakdown and at turnovers, and use it to punish their opponents. I'll be honest, I haven't viewed the stats and unless someone serves it to me on a platter, I'm not going to.

Anyway, it's Monday. Time to put the cue I've been using to bash Gatland back in the rack. The 3rd-4th playoff might actually be a good match.

 

[Tex]

It's the rush defence, employed by Wales and England to different ends. Cheika tried to beat it with flat, late, impeccably timed passing in high traffic (See TLC - Waterfalls). New Zealand didn't have a discernable plan for it against England. It draws expansive teams into making errors, and draws traditionally 'keep it in tight' teams like SA into playing 9 man rugby. For the record I see nothing wrong with watching forwards slug it out.

Difference between Wales and England is the reverse of the historical status quo - Wales seem to use it to draw teams into a quagmire of messy breakdowns (and scrums) with players laying all over the shop; England seem far more ruthless at the breakdown and at turnovers, and use it to punish their opponents. I'll be honest, I haven't viewed the stats and unless someone serves it to me on a platter, I'm not going to.

Anyway, it's Monday. Time to put the cue I've been using to bash Gatland back in the rack. The 3rd-4th playoff might actually be a good match.

Hopefully both teams treat it like a BaaBaas fixture and just go all-out attack. The monkey is off the back, pressure is gone, put on a couple outrageous steps and score tries all night.

 

[formerflanker]

The 3rd-4th playoff might actually be a good match.

What an opportunity for coaches and players.
Sure it's a dead rubber and no-one will remember the winner, but it is also a huge moment for some. Younger players taking leadership roles, assistant coaches given more responsibility, new/unused strategies and moves can be thrown in, under-utilised RWC dirt trackers given a big stage to strut their stuff, Barbarian-like attack, future combinations tested, and the main goal of playing to win.

 

[Blue]

It was awful.

But we won. What gace me the shits si every time we trucked it up into the midfield we made yards. Lots of them. De Allende broke the line all the time but we continued to kick at all costs.

We can't play this brand against England. We have to score. They will. but Rassie will do everything to turn it into a shit fight. We can look forward to a mess of a game. It will be negative rugby form SA.

This is 100% on the coach. He is prescribing this plan. For now its worked but if we dish up this shit in the final and lose he will deserve all the heat he will get.

Please just drop Willie. He has zero confidence. Gelant, Kolbe, Steyn at 15. Anyone. But he won't.

 

[Lorenzo]

It was awful.

But we won. What gace me the shits si every time we trucked it up into the midfield we made yards. Lots of them. De Allende broke the line all the time but we continued to kick at all costs.

We can't play this brand against England. We have to score. They will. but Rassie will do everything to turn it into a shit fight. We can look forward to a mess of a game. It will be negative rugby form SA.

This is 100% on the coach. He is prescribing this plan. For now its worked but if we dish up this shit in the final and lose he will deserve all the heat he will get.

Please just drop Willie. He has zero confidence. Gelant, Kolbe, Steyn at 15. Anyone. But he won't.

What is your view on playing in Japan (I.e Willie playing for Toyota)? Might not be the best prep for the RWC?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I feel last night was an appropriate end for Gatland. He's coached this negative, one-dimensional bash and barge type footy for nearly all of his time at Wales and hasn't progressed beyond the semis. Good.

 

[Blue]

What is your view on playing in Japan (I.e Willie playing for Toyota)? Might not be the best prep for the RWC?

Has no influence on anything. the problem is that the coach has persisted with him and should have pulled the plug on him earlier. Now it seems like it is too late to chance someone else.

 

[BDA]

What a rat-shit game. A bit of an embarrassment to world rugby really. My brother texted me during the game from a restaurant and asked me what he was missing. I replied "about 95 box kicks".

Two teams refusing to play any rugby. I have no sympathy at all for Wales, who got what they deserved, with such a negative game plan. To be fair to the Boks, they had essentially the same game plan but it was clear from the first minute of the game that they were just better at employing it. To be honest, the score board was flattering on Wales; the Bokes scrum had them on roller-skates most of the match but they got very little pay from the ref.

This game sheds a light on a bigger issue with the game that the governing body needs to consider over the next four years, namely what kind of rugby do we want to reward. Australia have been universally derided for playing "run it from everywhere" rugby at a world cup and rightly so, that's stupidity at a world cup. On the other hand, if our team played this style of game you could kiss goodbye to what's left of rugby in Australia. Of course there is a happy medium (which we need to discover), but I feel that the way the world cup has been refereed the last 4 weeks has swung the pendulum clearly against the attacking side. Off side lines have rarely been policed, allowing teams to enjoy an offside rush defence with 0 consequence from the officials. Moreover referees have allowed teams to messy the breakdown to prevent anything resembling quick ball. Wales were probably the most effective team at systematically killing quick ball, yet I can't remember them once getting a team warning for their infringing. Some of the attempts to kill quick ball against Australia and Fiji were down right cynical. In fact it's hard to remember many yellow cards at this world cup for repeated attempts to stifle attacking ball...I can't remember one....Referees seemed reticent to send players to the bin for effecting the breakdown, yet were more than happy to bin players for high tackles. If world rugby wants to see less games like this, then they need to be rewarding teams that play rugby and discouraging teams that don't.

As for the Boks, they've had the same problem the whole world cup...they don't seem to know how to score points once they have the ball in the other side's half. Apart from trying to milk a penalty from a maul they seem pretty clueless on attack. That worries me for next week. I think the Boks have the slightly better scrum and perhaps a slightly better forward pack, but not enough to give them any kind of discernable edge...I just can't see them beating England, regardless of tactics, as England appear more well rounded and seem to have no problem racking up points.

As a southern hemisphere resident, I'll probably be supporting to Boks, but really as a neutral supporter I'm just hoping for a great test match. I really hope both teams go out there and chance their arm.

 

[BDA]

Please just drop Willie. He has zero confidence.

Agree, he was terrible all night. He looks off the pace.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Don't call me. I'll be on holiday.

GAGR moderators should be working on rotating shifts, call-centre style - a "Live Chat" scenario - to field the queries and aggrieved complaints of GAGR members who may be unhappy or confused about certain aspects of recent rugby matches.

I myself personally have a litany of issues I would like to bring up one-to-one with a caring moderator which may be construed as "too absurd" for the forii generalis at large.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

81 kicks in 80 mins. Of that the ball was in play for about 83 seconds. So 64 kicks a minute. #sounds_like_a_plan

It will be negative rugby form SA.

Looking like 2007 JakeBall 0.2 with Faf box-kicking instead of Steyn. Not a flash advert for the sport; if anyone new to the game in Japan tunes in they'll be "wft, if thats top level rugby then you can keep it."

 

[Froggy]

I agree. The only people who will enjoy a game like that are real rusted on supporters. In terms of growing our game, that sort of rugby will only turn any casual viewer away. Yes, people like a winner, but if that's the game, it will draw the same sort of crowd as winning archery!

 

[Blue]

o

What a rat-shit game. A bit of an embarrassment to world rugby really. My brother texted me during the game from a restaurant and asked me what he was missing. I replied "about 95 box kicks".

Two teams refusing to play any rugby. I have no sympathy at all for Wales, who got what they deserved, with such a negative game plan. To be fair to the Boks, they had essentially the same game plan but it was clear from the first minute of the game that they were just better at employing it. To be honest, the score board was flattering on Wales; the Bokes scrum had them on roller-skates most of the match but they got very little pay for the ref.

This game sheds a light on a bigger issue with the game that the governing body needs to consider over the next four years, namely what kind of rugby do we want to reward. Australia have been universally derided for playing "run it from everywhere" rugby at a world cup and rightly so, that's stupidity at a world cup. On the other hand, if our team played this style of game you could kiss goodbye to what's left of rugby in Australia. Of course there is a happy medium (which we need to discover), but I feel that the way the world cup has been refereed the last 4 weeks has swung the pendulum clearly against the attacking side. Off side lines have rarely been policed, allowing teams to enjoy an offside rush defence with 0 consequence from the officials. Moreover referees have allowed teams to messy the breakdown to prevent anything resembling quick ball. Wales were probably the most effective team at systematically killing quick ball, yet I can't remember them once getting a team warning for their infringing. Some of the attempts to kill quick ball against Australia and Fiji were down right cynical. In fact it's hard to remember many yellow cards at this world cup for repeated attempts to stifle attacking ball.I can't remember one..Referees seemed reticent to send players to the bin for effecting the breakdown, yet were more than happy to bin players for high tackles. If world rugby wants to see less games like this, then they need to be rewarding teams that play rugby and discouraging teams that don't.

As for the Boks, they've had the same problem the whole world cup.they don't seem to know how to score points once they have the ball in the other side's half. Apart from trying to milk a penalty from a maul they seem pretty clueless on attack. That worries me for next week. I think the Boks have the slightly better scrum and perhaps a slightly better forward pack, but not enough to give them any kind of discernable edge.I just can't see them beating England, regardless of tactics, as England appear more well rounded and seem to have no problem racking up points.

As a southern hemisphere resident, I'll probably be supporting to Boks, but really as a neutral supporter I'm just hoping for a great test match. I really hope both teams go out there and chance their arm.

This kind of rugby in this modern era is not sustainable.

One poor game and you want to change everything. The rest of the tournament has been bloody excellent.

The only thing that really needs changing is scrum resets.

Leave the rest alone. It is a game with a set of rules that allows for different styles to challenge each other. May WE NEVER change that or we need up with a cookie cutter shitshow like the NRL.

Trust me I nearly lost my mind watching last night BUT I know SA will not stick to this style going forward. Rassie had 16 months and big forwards and decided this is the best plan for us. Guess what? It worked. They are in the final against most people's expectations. That speaks for itself. England, NZ, Aus, Ireland have had eyars with the same coaches, same players to work on a style of play. SA came out of an absolute mess. Erasmus is a smart cookie. He decided this is our best chance. That is SUPER debatable but Rassie has pinned his flag in that mast for all to see.

"As for the Boks, they've had the same problem the whole world cup.they don't seem to know how to score points once they have the ball in the other side's half." - does Rassie Erasmus see a problem here? I don't think he does. See above,

Creative play will be rewarded in the long run. Smash, kick and bash is a short term strategy that does not deliver consistent results any longer.

Leave the rules alone. See this for what it is. One team in a very specific situation.

 

[Blue]

81 kicks in 80 mins. Of that the ball was in play for about 83 seconds. So 64 kicks a minute. #sounds_like_a_plan

Looking like 2007 JakeBall 0.2 with Faf box-kicking instead of Steyn. Not a flash advert for the sport; if anyone new to the game in Japan tunes in they'll be "wft, if thats top level rugby then you can keep it."

Who gives a shit about "advertising for the sport"

Who are you trying to advertise to? The World Cup has been a fantastic advert. It's ONE game mate.

Those same people have tuned into the World Cup and they are head over heels in love. One game is not suddenly going to change that.

Complete overreaction.

The final will be riveting. Poms are going to attack out wide. If SA can counter them and keep in the game it will be edge of the eat stuff even for neutrals.

 

[Lorenzo]

What a rat-shit game. A bit of an embarrassment to world rugby really. My brother texted me during the game from a restaurant and asked me what he was missing. I replied "about 95 box kicks".

Two teams refusing to play any rugby. I have no sympathy at all for Wales, who got what they deserved, with such a negative game plan. To be fair to the Boks, they had essentially the same game plan but it was clear from the first minute of the game that they were just better at employing it. To be honest, the score board was flattering on Wales; the Bokes scrum had them on roller-skates most of the match but they got very little pay for the ref.

This game sheds a light on a bigger issue with the game that the governing body needs to consider over the next four years, namely what kind of rugby do we want to reward. Australia have been universally derided for playing "run it from everywhere" rugby at a world cup and rightly so, that's stupidity at a world cup. On the other hand, if our team played this style of game you could kiss goodbye to what's left of rugby in Australia. Of course there is a happy medium (which we need to discover), but I feel that the way the world cup has been refereed the last 4 weeks has swung the pendulum clearly against the attacking side. Off side lines have rarely been policed, allowing teams to enjoy an offside rush defence with 0 consequence from the officials. Moreover referees have allowed teams to messy the breakdown to prevent anything resembling quick ball. Wales were probably the most effective team at systematically killing quick ball, yet I can't remember them once getting a team warning for their infringing. Some of the attempts to kill quick ball against Australia and Fiji were down right cynical. In fact it's hard to remember many yellow cards at this world cup for repeated attempts to stifle attacking ball.I can't remember one..Referees seemed reticent to send players to the bin for effecting the breakdown, yet were more than happy to bin players for high tackles. If world rugby wants to see less games like this, then they need to be rewarding teams that play rugby and discouraging teams that don't.

As for the Boks, they've had the same problem the whole world cup.they don't seem to know how to score points once they have the ball in the other side's half. Apart from trying to milk a penalty from a maul they seem pretty clueless on attack. That worries me for next week. I think the Boks have the slightly better scrum and perhaps a slightly better forward pack, but not enough to give them any kind of discernable edge.I just can't see them beating England, regardless of tactics, as England appear more well rounded and seem to have no problem racking up points.

As a southern hemisphere resident, I'll probably be supporting to Boks, but really as a neutral supporter I'm just hoping for a great test match. I really hope both teams go out there and chance their arm.

I agree with much of what you have said - especially re offside defences, but isn't the constant contest for possession what separates rugby from league? I don't think it's supposed be a game where you get automatic quick ball at every ruck. Really, the modern ruck has been so watered down now that in the six nations this year, the offense won 94% percent of the rucks. Is that what we want? You have about a second to pilfer before the ref tells you hands away - even if you are on your feet and haven't been effectively cleared out. Counter rucking is difficult when the attacking has sent 3 players straight to ground to seal off the ball (don't see that penalty called nearly as often as it was, either).

I'd like to see the offside line actually enforced - in games with a TMO this should be relatively straightforward using first-down line style technology.