RWC: ARG v TON (Leicester): POOL C

[waiopehu oldboy]

Ref: Peyper
AR's: Jackson & Fraser
TMO:Skeen

Argentina: Joaquin Tuculet, Santiago Cordero, Matias Moroni, Jeronimo De La Fuente, Juan Imhoff, Nicolas Sanchez, Martin Landajo; Marcos Ayerza, Agustin Creevy (captain), Ramiro Herrera, Guido Petti, Tomas Lavanini, Pablo Matera, Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe, Leonardo Senatore
Replacements: Julian Montoya, Lucas Noguera, Juan Pablo Orlandi, Matias Alemanno, Juan Manuel Leguizamon, Tomas Cubelli, Santiago Gonzalez Iglesias, Horacio Agulla


Tonga: Vungakoto Lilo, Telusa Veainu, Siale Piutau, Sione Piukala, Fetu'u Vainikolo, Kurt Morath, Sonatane Takulua; Soane Tonga'uiha, Elvis Taione, Halani 'Aulika, Tukulua Lokotui, Joseph Tuineau, Sione Kalamafoni, Nili Latu (captain), Viliami Ma'afu Replacements: Aleki Lutui, Sona Taumalolo, Sila Puafisi, Sitiveni Mafi, Opeti Fonua, Samisoni Fisilau, Latiume Fosita, David Halaifonua

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

Excellent start. Tonga looking sharp and well trained, refreshing in contrast to Samoa yesterday who were the total opposite.

 

[mxyzptlk]

When Argentina click, they whir. They look like they could present some real defensive questions to anyone when their attack is flowing.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Morath is crumbling under the pressure.

 

[Bairdy]

Just saw the highlights. Argentina trucking along nicely. What has been on show is the benefit playing in the Rugby Championship has had on their play - which is no longer resigned to 10-man rugby.

Cordero, Imhoff Cubelli are superb talents. And then you have the young tight forwards coming through like Lavanini and Noguera.

I can really see them knocking off either France or Ireland in the qf the way they are going.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Argentina before start of rwc were my dark horse to win the rwc - they are quietly going about their business and reckon a real chance to take the main prize...

 

[Dan54]

By geez that was another good game of rugby. This WC just keeps on giving, the general standard of rugby is bloody great. The Argies are certainly looking a pretty handy team at moment, and could cause problems at knock out stages.

 

[Iñaki Zubizarreta]

In my opinion, this was the worst match for us in the pool stage till now. The first 20 minutes, our defense was too permissive and none offensive tackles. Some wrong decisions in attack. Weak scrum, that is our most disappointment.
But then the match finally ended in a good way, with good handling game. Considering that Namibia is the weakest team in our pool, the real improvement of Argentina is going be seen in QF against a northern hemisphere squad.

 

[Omar Comin']

Saw the replay, one of the most entertaining game of the tournament. Some great tries by both teams. Tonga let down by their kicker but Argentina did always seem just that little bit more dangerous. They'll need to improve their defence to have a chance of winning the tournament but their attack is certainly looking very good at times.

They'll definitely be a big chance of making the semis against either France or Ireland. That'll be a great quarter final whoever it is.

 

[Iñaki Zubizarreta]

Saw the replay, one of the most entertaining game of the tournament. Some great tries by both teams. Tonga let down by their kicker but Argentina did always seem just that little bit more dangerous. They'll need to improve their defence to have a chance of winning the tournament but their attack is certainly looking very good at times.

They'll definitely be a big chance of making the semis against either France or Ireland. That'll be a great quarter final whoever it is.

Next matches are NZ-TON and ARG-NAM, we're looking forward to play against Ireland/France. You're right about the defense. Argentina has low chances in QF if they don't keep the defense structure that we saw against All Blacks.

 

[Omar Comin']

Next matches are NZ-TON and ARG-NAM, we're looking forward to play against Ireland/France. You're right about the defense. Argentina has low chances in QF if they don't keep the defense structure that we saw against All Blacks.

Or forget about defence and just keep scoring more points. You can win the game 40-33!

In all seriousness, after watching Ireland play Italy your defence might not need to be that great to keep them out. France may have a bit more in attack, but Argentina usually do pretty well against them.

No matter what happens in this tournament things are looking good for you guys for the next few years. You have a lot of good young players gaining international experience and improving all the time. I think by the time the 2019 world cup comes around you'll be one of the favourites to win.

 

[Iñaki Zubizarreta]

Or forget about defence and just keep scoring more points. You can win the game 40-33!

In all seriousness, after watching Ireland play Italy your defence might not need to be that great to keep them out. France may have a bit more in attack, but Argentina usually do pretty well against them.

No matter what happens in this tournament things are looking good for you guys for the next few years. You have a lot of good young players gaining international experience and improving all the time. I think by the time the 2019 world cup comes around you'll be one of the favourites to win.

Yes, may be Ireland's attack is not that offensive right now. But Argentina usually makes a lot of penalties because of the initial lack of concentration of the first minutes, and they will make us pay for that. About France, I think they have a similar defense structure that ours, but I want to see them trying to nullify the more dynamic game of Argentina. That should be our most valuable learning of participating it the RC with you! Less trouble with forwards and more handling work.

Thanks for the compliment. Argentinian clubs are really working to give better players for the future Super Rugby franchise. That is a dream come true for us, playing with you guys. Really.

Can't wait for next sunday's match haha

 

[Omar Comin']

Argentinian clubs are really working to give better players for the future Super Rugby franchise. That is a dream come true for us, playing with you guys. Really.

Great to hear! I really like having Argentina in the RC, adds something different and it's been nice to see the team playing a more 15 man game recently and picking up a couple of wins. Best jersey in rugby too!

In the longer term how many Super Rugby franchises do you think Argentina could support? Would you want your own Argentinian conference of 5 or 6 teams or is that too many?

 

[Iñaki Zubizarreta]

Great to hear! I really like having Argentina in the RC, adds something different and it's been nice to see the team playing a more 15 man game recently and picking up a couple of wins. Best jersey in rugby too!

In the longer term how many Super Rugby franchises do you think Argentina could support? Would you want your own Argentinian conference of 5 or 6 teams or is that too many?

Well, it's a big step to have one franchise so far. This will reveal the seriousness of the UAR directing and how they pay back the confidence given by the SANZAR. It is going to be a real commitment for us.

You may know that rugby is still amateur here, so the next step after taking good sport results will be to reach an economic basis to support the possible Argentinian conference. The SANZAR gave us a hand, but they are not a charitable association. So Argentina has sport and economic goals for the next 7-10 years, at least, to start thinking about an own conference. Like you said, 5 franchises are too many for now, and the long term depends on reaching the middle term goals.

Another remarkable fact you should be aware of, is the PLADAR program. It was being applied for the last 5 years in the different Argentinian provinces to train emerging players (the best of them play for Pampas XV). And, so far, it is being successful considering that 14 players of the current Pumas squad played for Pampas XV before.

 

[Omar Comin']

So Argentina has sport and economic goals for the next 7-10 years, at least, to start thinking about an own conference. Like you said, 5 franchises are too many for now, and the long term depends on reaching the middle term goals.

Another remarkable fact you should be aware of, is the PLADAR program. It was being applied for the last 5 years in the different Argentinian provinces to train emerging players (the best of them play for Pampas XV). And, so far, it is being successful considering that 14 players of the current Pumas squad played for Pampas XV before.

Sounds like the commercial constraints are greater than anything else and that the player development is coming along really well.

I had this thought that in 5+ years there could be a South American conference featuring say 3 Argentinian teams and a team each from Brazil, Uruguay and Chile. I think the Americas 6 Nations is a bit of a hint at this. Obviously this first franchise being a success is crucial, but I'd be shocked if they're not successful on the field given everyone that's signed up. Hopefully they'll also be a success commercially and attract good crowds. I actually think this team will be so strong it will show Argentina should have at least a 2nd team sooner than later.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Maybe more realistically a America's conference with say 2 Argentina teams,
1 us, 1 Canada and 1 Uruguay team in say 5-8 years time could be a realistic first goal.

But definitely having Argentina super rugby team is positive way forward

 

[Omar Comin']

Maybe more realistically a America's conference with say 2 Argentina teams,
1 us, 1 Canada and 1 Uruguay team in say 5-8 years time could be a realistic first goal.

But definitely having Argentina super rugby team is positive way forward

Yeah that's more realistic in the shorter term and could be a bridge to separate South American and North American conferences.

However, I believe US Rugby is looking to start their own competition rather than push for Super Rugby inclusion. Nigel Melville said they were keen on entering Super Rugby at about the time the Rebels got added but SANZAR didn't go for it so they changed focus.

 

[Iñaki Zubizarreta]

Maybe more realistically a America's conference with say 2 Argentina teams,
1 us, 1 Canada and 1 Uruguay team in say 5-8 years time could be a realistic first goal.

But definitely having Argentina super rugby team is positive way forward

I agree with you, that's more realistic. But it would be a real challenge for Uruguay to climb, in the short term, the one or two steps away they are from USA, CAN and ARG.
About USA, Omar is right. They have a big chance to grow and make their own competition. Economic resources are available in US, they just need more people and letting know the sport in there. Let's see how they manage to attract more people instead of american football.

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

I had this thought that in 5+ years there could be a South American conference featuring say 3 Argentinian teams and a team each from Brazil, Uruguay and Chile. I think the Americas 6 Nations is a bit of a hint at this. Obviously this first franchise being a success is crucial, but I'd be shocked if they're not successful on the field given everyone that's signed up. Hopefully they'll also be a success commercially and attract good crowds. I actually think this team will be so strong it will show Argentina should have at least a 2nd team sooner than later.

It's amazing how this actually seems plausible. I love how much our sport has progressed in the last 4 years. From being only about tier one and the fact Italy and Scotland were looking like almost tier two's to having a much closer gap between the big powers and the upcoming ones.

Rugby really I'd starting to feel like a fully global sport.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

The key for establishing other conferences is building separate ones at right time to ensure they are part of a quality competition otherwise will fail commercially...

Hence that is why Argentina and Japan are part of South African conference.

As we already have the IRB Pacific Nations Rugby tournament of which pacific island nations are part of as well as Japan, USA and Canada.

Pulling in bettter tier 2 nations into more premier competitions like 6 Nations and Super Rugby is about helping those tier 2 get to next level who have potential to do so. Sadly yes just having talented rugby players (like Fiji etc) not only consideration but moreso when you do (as that is what makes a good product) you perhaps need to be more creative to create right commercial product.

Rugby's biggest strength is its global footprint and what it should continue to try and build on and grow tier 2 nations to provide a more compelling global product in terms of nations like Argentina who have come along leaps and bounds by exposure to more professional setups and competitions.