School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Inside Shoulder]

Well I guess this really does apply to the Legal Industry, full of nepotism, a star chamber with a protected closed shop.

If you want to see how it would work if it were not a closed shop go and see a self represented litigant present his or her case in Court.
and then imagine if that's the job they do for themselves when they live and breath their case how would they go doing a case for someone else.
But the real point of this debate is that the pathways program has been hijacked by the private schools to bolster their ranks in sport and in any event comparatively disadvantages the vast majority of kids who have to live a life and do the HSC all in one year.

 

[Troy Dickson]

If you want to see how it would work if it were not a closed shop go and see a self represented litigant present his or her case in Court.
and then imagine if that's the job they do for themselves when they live and breath their case how would they go doing a case for someone else.
But the real point of this debate is that the pathways program has been hijacked by the private schools to bolster their ranks in sport and in any event comparatively disadvantages the vast majority of kids who have to live a life and do the HSC all in one year.

Do you have any idea how many 'sports stars' undertake the pathways program ?

I cannot see any real advantage for a 'sports star' to undertake the pathways program as you suggest unless you actually started school a year young and can anticipate you would be concluding school as a 17 year old. They could do the pathways and finish year 12 with their correct age group of 18 year olds, i see nothing wrong in that. As they had given away a year to the rest of the cohort for majority of the schooling life.

If you do pathways and finishing year 12 as a 19 year old 'sports star', well you cannot participate in GPS rugby due to age, so we 100% won't be seeing them playing 1st XV for their school and therefore no advantage gained.

 

[Azzuri]

I
But the real point of this debate is that the pathways program has been hijacked by the private schools to bolster their ranks in sport and in any event comparatively disadvantages the vast majority of kids who have to live a life and do the HSC all in one year.

What complete and utter bollocks!!!

So on the strength of a couple of Rugby lads doing pathways in a private school the whole pathways system has been "hijacked" and is being used to bolster rankings in sport? .....and the 2016 GAGR Conspiratorial Hyperbole Award goes to..... To quote the Mr John McEnroe, "you cannot be serious"

Looking forward to hearing how the music pathways program is being used by private schools to bolster the number of triangle and tambourine players in the Sydney Symphony Orchestra at the expense of the full academic load public school aspirants.

 

[Not in straight]

Do you have any idea how many 'sports stars' undertake the pathways program ?

I cannot see any real advantage for a 'sports star' to undertake the pathways program as you suggest unless you actually started school a year young and can anticipate you would be concluding school as a 17 year old. They could do the pathways and finish year 12 with their correct age group of 18 year olds, i see nothing wrong in that. As they had given away a year to the rest of the cohort for majority of the schooling life.

If you do pathways and finishing year 12 as a 19 year old 'sports star', well you cannot participate in GPS rugby due to age, so we 100% won't be seeing them playing 1st XV for their school and therefore no advantage gained.

@Troy, pretty sensible contribution to the debate. I agree, and if I had a son eligible and could afford it and/or get the school to adjust the fees based on half tuition then I would think there would be some logic to it..

But I don't, and I think it should remain a very rare thing for all schools.

I'd be surprised if any of the schools had more than 1 in 1st 15. Because you would have to question how any 1 school ended up with multiple good rugby players all young for their age and willing to repeat,


Is it only Rugby that GPS only allows U18 year olds to compete or is it all sports?

 

[I like to watch]

funny how only 'bottom age' kids see any benefit in pathways!
Let's just remember the justification for pathways was supposed to be to assist kids who both trained many hours per day,and travelled frequently for competitions, at an elite standard.
Now we have kids playing in a 6 team School comp saying the training load is too high for them to complete the HSC in the normal time frame.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What complete and utter bollocks!!!

So on the strength of a couple of Rugby lads doing pathways in a private school the whole pathways system has been "hijacked" and is being used to bolster rankings in sport? ...and the 2016 GAGR Conspiratorial Hyperbole Award goes to... To quote the Mr John McEnroe, "you cannot be serious"

Looking forward to hearing how the music pathways program is being used by private schools to bolster the number of triangle and tambourine players in the Sydney Symphony Orchestra at the expense of the full academic load public school aspirants.

By reason of your over reaction I have a hunch you have some skin in this game Azzuri......and its known that your favoured school provide many winding pathways........though not for the deputy head

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I cannot see any real advantage for a 'sports star' to undertake the pathways program as you suggest unless you actually started school a year young and can anticipate you would be concluding school as a 17 year old.

what?
The sudden inability to keep up with the workload only manifested itself in year 11.
So everyone else can do 12 units and I'll just do 6, if that. Sure I'll have twice as much time to devote to those 6 units but I'm young and I can't keep up anymore.

 

[Not in straight]

funny how only 'bottom age' kids see any benefit in pathways!
Let's just remember the justification for pathways was supposed to be to assist kids who both trained many hours per day,and travelled frequently for competitions, at an elite standard.
Now we have kids playing in a 6 team School comp saying the training load is too high for them to complete the HSC in the normal time frame.

I take it any kid can apply to do it regardless of their age.

Just if they want to continue to play GPS Rugby at a GPS school in year 13 they still need to qualify as under 18.

Hence why it should be a pretty rare event.

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[Azzuri]

By reason of your over reaction I have a hunch you have some skin in this game Azzuri..and its known that your favoured school provide many winding pathways....though not for the deputy head

Nice work @IS. You call a couple of kids doing pathways "a private school hijacking to bolster sport rankings" and when your comments are critiqued as obvious hyperbole you level a criticism of overreaction in response.

In the case of "your hunch" I can refer you to a very good Chiropractor who will have you straightened out walking upright in no time. Think nothing of it I'm happy to help.

 

[I like to watch]

I take it any kid can apply to do it regardless of their age.

Just if they want to continue to play GPS Rugby at a GPS school in year 13 they still need to qualify as under 18.

Hence why it should be a pretty rare event.

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So the overload in year 12 is a real thing,only if a rep jumper in year 13 is a possibility?

 

[Quick Hands]

If you do pathways and finishing year 12 as a 19 year old 'sports star', well you cannot participate in GPS rugby due to age, so we 100% won't be seeing them playing 1st XV for their school and therefore no advantage gained.

Co-incidentally 19 year olds don't seem to do pathways.

 

[Not in straight]

Co-incidentally 19 year olds don't seem to do pathways.

@QH, I don't know the stats on Pathways or even where to look. I would guess the "Elite Sports" would probably be one of the less used reasons.

I suspect kids doing Tafe/ Trade courses part time with HSC or those needing to work part time would be more common place. Probably a very different Socioeconomic set by and large to the boys at GPS schools. Many of these would be 19.

I have no problems with a kid young for his age either repeating Year 12 or doing the Pathways split. And if they want to play GPS rugby for their school 2 or 3 years in a row, well and good. So long as they are U18.


Where I would have a problem, if the school orchestrated a Pathways situation for a top Rugby player. If they skipped them ahead a year to allow a Pathways to occur. (Dont know if this has ever happened - but clearly what Scots were up to with Buying spots at Sydney University in a 17 week course that should have taken a year - just plain wrong)

Is this done so that more intensive training programs can be run, seeking an advantage over schools who don't do this.?

 

[Not in straight]

So the overload in year 12 is a real thing,only if a rep jumper in year 13 is a possibility?

Not what I said.

Overload is a very real thing for all these boys. The training programs are so intense, very time consuming. Up to 5 days a week plus game day, Early morning Gym sessions. Its a problem, but that is the level of the competition, and the schools need to have them at that level as a duty of care to the boys. Otherwise we get the big mismatches and injuries.

The thing is, at least from a Shore perspective. Pathways is simply not an option except in the rarest of events.

They simply don't have the room to allow a kid to repeat and take up a spot in the year below.

 

[Quick Hands]

@QH, I don't know the stats on Pathways or even where to look. I would guess the "Elite Sports" would probably be one of the less used reasons.

I suspect kids doing Tafe/ Trade courses part time with HSC or those needing to work part time would be more common place. Probably a very different Socioeconomic set by and large to the boys at GPS schools. Many of these would be 19.

I have no problems with a kid young for his age either repeating Year 12 or doing the Pathways split. And if they want to play GPS rugby for their school 2 or 3 years in a row, well and good. So long as they are U18.


Where I would have a problem, if the school orchestrated a Pathways situation for a top Rugby player. If they skipped them ahead a year to allow a Pathways to occur. (Dont know if this has ever happened - but clearly what Scots were up to with Buying spots at Sydney University in a 17 week course that should have taken a year - just plain wrong)

Is this done so that more intensive training programs can be run, seeking an advantage over schools who don't do this.?

If you were to go back and have a look at boys who've played 3 years of 1st XV at certain schools (not only GPS schools), you'd see that most them are on pathways. Quite attractive for those GPS (and other) schools who are into the recruitment of "talented sportsmen". They are the most juicy target for scholarships as they can start in Year 11 and play firsts for 3 years. Or start earlier with the expectation that they will be able to do pathways.

Schools who engage in the practice know well the advantages that come with recruiting younger boys.

 

[Runpasstackle]

Hearing rumours that a fair few parents from riverview have their noses out of joint in relation to old boy involvement with the opens coaching staff and senior administrators at the school. in regard to admissions and selections as a result

 

[I like to watch]

Not what I said.

Overload is a very real thing for all these boys. The training programs are so intense, very time consuming. Up to 5 days a week plus game day, Early morning Gym sessions. Its a problem, but that is the level of the competition, and the schools need to have them at that level as a duty of care to the boys. Otherwise we get the big mismatches and injuries.

The thing is, at least from a Shore perspective. Pathways is simply not an option except in the rarest of events.

They simply don't have the room to allow a kid to repeat and take up a spot in the year below.

So the Schools duty of care to the kid, is to require them to train so often,it's detrimental to their Schoolwork?
whats the point of School Rugby again?

 

[Not in straight]

Hearing rumours that a fair few parents from riverview have their noses out of joint in relation to old boy involvement with the opens coaching staff and senior administrators at the school. in regard to admissions and selections as a result

Random admissions from other Gps schools? And other Catholic schools?

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[Not in straight]

So the Schools duty of care to the kid, is to require them to train so often,it's detrimental to their Schoolwork?
whats the point of School Rugby again?

Apparently there are parents and school communities that "LIKE TO WATCH" their boys play rugby perhaps at the highest schoolboy standard in the world.

I do take your point and agree it is a fine balance.

But my own experience is that the sport even at overload level has been a very positive influence in all areas of a young man's life. Including the academic.

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[Runpasstackle]

Random admissions from other Gps schools? And other Catholic schools?

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Not only that but selection pressure to justify them. Fair to say coach is getting plenty of advice. Welcomed or not.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Apparently there are parents and school communities that "LIKE TO WATCH" their boys play rugby perhaps at the highest schoolboy standard in the world.

I do take your point and agree it is a fine balance.

But my own experience is that the sport even at overload level has been a very positive influence in all areas of a young man's life. Including the academic.

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At overload level? How can that be - it's a contradiction in terms.
As ILTW implies this school sport started out as something to fit in around school work, now it so wags he dog that you need an extra year to finish year 12.
Loss of a sense of proportion but
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