School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Quick Hands]

As I recall it Andy Haden bagged him for sitting in a Fiji airport reading a book waiting for their flight back home. It may come from that view in reverse.
I think he may be feeding a stereotype - which is pretty much how they finished up where they have: Mackerras and successors assumed that if you are good at sport you are not and can never be an intellectual or a good scholar.

Which makes it strange that a medical doctor who also captained the All Blacks would buy into it.

 

[SOLE334]

Which makes it strange that a medical doctor who also captained the All Blacks would buy into it.

This reminds me of Robert Redford offering Woody Harrelson's wife( DM) a cool 1mil dare... in Indecent Proposal money does weird things or the value of it in other perks...


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[Inside Shoulder]

Which makes it strange that a medical doctor who also captained the All Blacks would buy into it.

As chairman of trustees with a particular view about the irrational emphasis on rugby in the AAGPS? Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Quick Hands]

As chairman of trustees with a particular view about the irrational emphasis on rugby in the AAGPS? Makes perfect sense to me.

Although it's probably possible to have a rational emphasis on rugby, still be competitive without selling one's soul.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Although it's probably possible to have a rational emphasis on rugby, still be competitive without selling one's soul.

Not at GPS schools it seems. The vitriol headed shore's way is classic.
It's a pity that demographics in the historical supplier of rugby players have aligned with 20 (or more?) years of she'll be right administration at the ARU are coming to their peak at the same time.

 

[Quick Hands]

Not at GPS schools it seems. The vitriol headed shore's way is classic.
It's a pity that demographics in the historical supplier of rugby players have aligned with 20 (or more?) years of she'll be right administration at the ARU are coming to their peak at the same time.

Although it could be argued that the junior clubs provided an equal role as historical supplier of players - their demise can be layed squarely at the feet of the ARU and NSWRU.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Although it could be argued that the junior clubs provided an equal role as historical supplier of players - their demise can be layed squarely at the feet of the ARU and NSWRU.

up to a point, but even in my day clubs like Mosman struggled to field a high school aged team.
What we've lost in Sydney is 2 GPS schools, a third on the way and nearly all the high schools.
Even TKS have more soccer than rugby teams - unthinkable 20, let alone 30, years ago.
Its hard to see that this demographic will reverse in some way - its likely to move further against union, I would think.
My problem with scholarships has always been that it removes talent from lesser rugby schools to prop up "rugby" schools - to some degree this has hidden the problem of our shrinking footprint.

 

[Quick Hands]

up to a point, but even in my day clubs like Mosman struggled to field a high school aged team.
What we've lost in Sydney is 2 GPS schools, a third on the way and nearly all the high schools.
Even TKS have more soccer than rugby teams - unthinkable 20, let alone 30, years ago.
Its hard to see that this demographic will reverse in some way - its likely to move further against union, I would think.
My problem with scholarships has always been that it removes talent from lesser rugby schools to prop up "rugby" schools - to some degree this has hidden the problem of our shrinking footprint.

It's not a pretty picture. And I agree 100% with the last paragraph.

 

[BAR]

I agree fully with the above two comments. The unfortunate impact of this is that not only do those schools lose the poached players but they lose an important drawcard for their rugby program.

 

[bigmac]

up to a point, but even in my day clubs like Mosman struggled to field a high school aged team.
What we've lost in Sydney is 2 GPS schools, a third on the way and nearly all the high schools.
Even TKS have more soccer than rugby teams - unthinkable 20, let alone 30, years ago.
Its hard to see that this demographic will reverse in some way - its likely to move further against union, I would think.
My problem with scholarships has always been that it removes talent from lesser rugby schools to prop up "rugby" schools - to some degree this has hidden the problem of our shrinking footprint.

Scots 1993 imported the notorious monster forward pack. Remember them clearly.
SBHS were the very unlucky runners up that year. A very well drilled team.

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[Inside Shoulder]

Scots 1993 imported the notorious monster forward pack. Remember them clearly.
SBHS were the very unlucky runners up that year. A very well drilled team.

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They had to, it was the centenary and the sons of old boys just weren't up to it

 

[Black & White]

As I recall it Andy Haden bagged him for sitting in a Fiji airport reading a book waiting for their flight back home. It may come from that view in reverse.
I think he may be feeding a stereotype - which is pretty much how they finished up where they have: Mackerras and successors assumed that if you are good at sport you are not and can never be an intellectual or a good scholar.

The reality is that the personal qualities that make a good sportsman, will also be evident in a good academic. The two run parallel together, just look at Sydney University. Self-discpline,personal motivation, good organisation and attention to detail are such major characteristics, that are shared between the two.

Pity the New Head at Grammar appears to lack the strategic vision to combine both, in order to develop Grammar into an educational institution that has a more holistic approach to learning. An academic education by itself is no education at all. Boys will need to develop their social, leadership and inter-personal skills. Society demands that they have a competent moral compass.

So many of these qualities are taught on the sports field. A physical health boy will be more capable to produce, a greater volume in the quality effort concerning his studies.

Nor does this approach, have to an singular focus approach on Rugby alone. Other GPS school now have a wider choice of the days when, boys were given the choice of two in winter sport. Rugby or nothing.

Creating a Renaissance Man would serve as a more balance approach to education, not just to Grammar but all schools. Both state and independent,
unfortunately, the teaching profession as a lot to answer for in perpetuating standards of institutional mediocrity.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The reality is that the personal qualities that make a good sportsman, will also be evident in a good academic. The two run parallel together, just look at Sydney University. Self-discpline,personal motivation, good organisation and attention to detail are such major characteristics, that are shared between the two.

Pity the New Head at Grammar appears to lack the strategic vision to combine both, in order to develop Grammar into an educational institution that has a more holistic approach to learning. An academic education by itself is no education at all. Boys will need to develop their social, leadership and inter-personal skills. Society demands that they have a competent moral compass.

Sydney Uni's (as an educational institution) has a massive culture problem which is viewed by some as a reflection of "rugger values" in the residential colleges. Its international ranking has slipped dramatically in the last decade or so.
Possibly not the best example as a result.
Grammar does take a holistic view: sport is compulsory for longer now than it was "in the good old days". What Grammar does not do is to stack rugby or cricket teams with imports or permit boys to play only one sport.
The result is that they cannot compete with the schools that do: this came to a head when Moorea and Milne - both now RL 1st graders - ran rampant as year 11 students. I saw the game.
I think its somewhat early to be saying anything about the new head: he's been at every rugby game. In any event short of recruiting rugby players to the school how would you meet the "holistic" view that you call for? How would you recruit them?

 

[bigmac]

Sydney Uni's (as an educational institution) has a massive culture problem which is viewed by some as a reflection of "rugger values" in the residential colleges. Its international ranking has slipped dramatically in the last decade or so.
Possibly not the best example as a result.
Grammar does take a holistic view: sport is compulsory for longer now than it was "in the good old days". What Grammar does not do is to stack rugby or cricket teams with imports or permit boys to play only one sport.
The result is that they cannot compete with the schools that do: this came to a head when Moorea and Milne - both now RL 1st graders - ran rampant as year 11 students. I saw the game.
I think its somewhat early to be saying anything about the new head: he's been at every rugby game. In any event short of recruiting rugby players to the school how would you meet the "holistic" view that you call for? How would you recruit them?

Agree too early to judge dr malpas. Give him a chance.
As having experience at syd uni residential college and sgs i largely agree with IS. Sgs takes a measured approach to sport and refuses to play the import or hothouse game (with the odd exeption from my experience). they could push harder at times esp with rowing. Shore also gets kudos for no import rule.


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[Black & White]

Sydney Uni's (as an educational institution) has a massive culture problem which is viewed by some as a reflection of "rugger values" in the residential colleges. Its international ranking has slipped dramatically in the last decade or so.
Possibly not the best example as a result.
Grammar does take a holistic view: sport is compulsory for longer now than it was "in the good old days". What Grammar does not do is to stack rugby or cricket teams with imports or permit boys to play only one sport.
The result is that they cannot compete with the schools that do: this came to a head when Moorea and Milne - both now RL 1st graders - ran rampant as year 11 students. I saw the game.
I think its somewhat early to be saying anything about the new head: he's been at every rugby game. In any event short of recruiting rugby players to the school how would you meet the "holistic" view that you call for? How would you recruit them?

Hello IS, I would suggest Grammar maintain its Academic intake, but add a separate Selective Intake to its selection process, starting in year 7. The selective intake would still comprise academically able boys. But would have apparent strengths in sports that would enhance Grammar's capacity, to field teams across the sporting spectrum at Grammar.

If Grammar was to look,advertise and recruit I believe it could acquire, academically able/ sportingly inclined boys from Western Sydney. My understanding of Grammar's catchment area is that its essentially, a North Shore, Eastern Suburbs Icon.

I know Grammar doesn't have a boarding house , but if Grammar Parents are prepared to have a residing boarder in their home ( their is allowance for such parents to house such a boarder) recruiting academically/sporting inclined boys could also add to their Sports Program. Particularly, from NSW Country areas.

For me its not matter of stacking teams, but rather Grammar committing itself to a sense of social justice and availing itself its with a cliental, that is more socially diverse. Yes, its very much a Newington and Joeys outlook.

The fact some of these boys might be talented Rugby/ League players would be a winner/winner situation for Grammar Sport and its academic standing. I am also aware that Grammar's number's would need to increase and space to be found. Maybe, the fossils next door at the museum could find a new home.

Nevertheless, I do believe that academic excellence and an effective rugby program can coexist together at Grammar. Maybe not playing Joeys and Scots. But rather as strong opponents against, Cranbrook,Trinity, Barker and the ISA schools.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

^^^who pays their fees?
Grammar would be more diverse than any other GPS school: that was how the rugby/rowing/cricket problem got started.
From the 60s the kids attending have often been first of a their family born in this country.
None of those three sports was particularly well known in south east Asia, northern eastern or Southern Europe, the Middle East or Asia Minor.
So parents didn't care - some kids have to find their own way to sport on weekends.
You cannot import 23 rugby players at age 13: you have to import selectively each year to cover the shortcomings.
Once you start covering your weaknesses you destroy the comps: it's closeness for 100 years was basically a product of each team's weakest link(s).
This game is supposed to be played for enjoyment at this level. The grammar kids seem to enjoy what they're doing and slowly the culture of amateur rugby is being embraced but the demographic will never clamour for better rugby.
Since no child of an old boy can ever be guaranteed a spot the old boy's union has little sway - unlike all the other gps schools.

 

[bigmac]

^^^who pays their fees?
Grammar would be more diverse than any other GPS school: that was how the rugby/rowing/cricket problem got started.
From the 60s the kids attending have often been first of a their family born in this country.
None of those three sports was particularly well known in south east Asia, northern eastern or Southern Europe, the Middle East or Asia Minor.
So parents didn't care - some kids have to find their own way to sport on weekends.
You cannot import 23 rugby players at age 13: you have to import selectively each year to cover the shortcomings.
Once you start covering your weaknesses you destroy the comps: it's closeness for 100 years was basically a product of each team's weakest link(s).
This game is supposed to be played for enjoyment at this level. The grammar kids seem to enjoy what they're doing and slowly the culture of amateur rugby is being embraced but the demographic will never clamour for better rugby.
Since no child of an old boy can ever be guaranteed a spot the old boy's union has little sway - unlike all the other gps schools.

As an old boy myself i was looking at grammar for my two sons. So no dispensation to old boys when getting their son in? This is a change in previous policy.

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[Inside Shoulder]

As an old boy myself i was looking at grammar for my two sons. So no dispensation to old boys when getting their son in? This is a change in previous policy.

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You surely are not older than me and the rule was even in the 70's no favours for OB's. You should: my eldest is not the sharpest tool in the shed (this will test whether he reads this site) and was a reasonable sportsman and he loved it.
The "rumour" is that if 2 boys are equal the son of an old boy gets preference, but how that would (a) ever arise, and (b) anyone would know is moot.
The entry is (or more properly was, in the sense that there have been significant changes n personnel recently) discretionary: for instance, they can apparently tell if a result is the product of coaching and they will try to avoid boys coached for the entrance exam.
Additionally, they ask the kids what they do when they are not doing school work - that, apparently, is a great leveller because it exposes the one dimensional kids whom they also avoid.

 

[Kenny Powers]

The result is that they cannot compete with the schools that do: this came to a head when Moorea and Milne - both now RL 1st graders - ran rampant as year 11 students. I saw the game.

A simple and effective solution would be for the GPS to agree that students contracted to an NRL Club or have played a rugby league game for an NRL club in the preceding calendar year cannot participate in the GPS rugby union competition. (The above players were contracted to NRL clubs whilst at school)

How you can participate in the wider activities, ideals and aims of the school while contracted to a NRL Club I do not know. Also if you play for an NRL club you have certain opportunities open to you and not necessarily in the greatest need of a scholarship / bursary. Also the choice can be theirs educational opportunity over NRL contract.

Whilst not a complete solution to the scholarship issues, where scholarship and bursaries are a grey area, having an NRL contract is clear cut, it will go some way to leveling the playing field and score blow outs.

I know some may disagree with the above, but how many contracted NRL kids (while at school) have played rugby after leaving school, I can't think of any.

 

[bigmac]

You surely are not older than me and the rule was even in the 70's no favours for OB's. You should: my eldest is not the sharpest tool in the shed (this will test whether he reads this site) and was a reasonable sportsman and he loved it.
The "rumour" is that if 2 boys are equal the son of an old boy gets preference, but how that would (a) ever arise, and (b) anyone would know is moot.
The entry is (or more properly was, in the sense that there have been significant changes n personnel recently) discretionary: for instance, they can apparently tell if a result is the product of coaching and they will try to avoid boys coached for the entrance exam.
Additionally, they ask the kids what they do when they are not doing school work - that, apparently, is a great leveller because it exposes the one dimensional kids whom they also avoid.

i am OSU 93
I knew sons of old boys in the prep school who were marginal. Some stayed on some left for shore kings etc. I thought old boys got preference but maybe wrong.
Laurie F told me about the coaching issue. he was hired to set up the entrance exam and weed out the coached kids.
you are being modest with your son's sporting achievements. A standout player with a big future in rugby.

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