Schoolboy 1st XV overage player proposal...

[baldingwingforward]

There are currently meetings going on to discuss a Pilot plan proposed by the ARU to allow overage players to play in their respective 1st XV Schoolboy competitions eg CAS, GPS, ISA etc.

The proposal allows schools to have up to 2 players in their 1st XV who are over 18 on 1st of January, i.e. turning 19 during the season. The schools concerned would have to submit an application to the ARU with all of the players details included and the ARU then makes a decision on whether the boy can play in the comp.

IMO opinion this is very dangerous ground and the proposal is opening up a potentioal @hit fight.

Two problems i can see straight away are:

Less scrupulous schools might be tempted to get key players from other schools to come in and repeat Yr 11 (i.e. those who don't mind actively recruiting - notice i didn't use the "s" word). In the old days they would have been too old to play in Yr 12 - under this proposal they could play.

Very good players might be encouraged to do pathways in order to play another year of 1st XV footy. This currently cannot happen anymore as they are too old and therefore there is no point in them staying at school.

The rumblings i am hearing is that there is a strong push from Knox in particular as they have an overage player this season who is currently ineligible to play under the existing laws. I believe there is also a school in the GPS system who knows that they have an overage player coming through the ranks and they want to try and get this in place before he gets to Yr 12.

In my opinion the situation is simple - schoolboy footy should be U18 - no ifs and buts. If you are too old, its tough, but bad luck.

Interested to hear other peoples viewpoints on this.

 

[Jets]

Yeah I think schoolboy rugby should be U18. If you need to stay at school to play rugby when you are 19 you aren't going to progress much further. They can always go play Colts.

 

[bushpig]

Perhaps you should consider the other situation. There are a number of Year 12 boys at these schools who turn 19 at some stage later in the year who have ended up in this situation because their families may have moved or they started later at school because of developmental issues when they were in preschool. They have not repeated any years and are not doing pathways. Many are passionate rugby players who have been told they can not play school rugby when they are in their final year of school. Many of these are not of First XV standard but would just like to play in the 3rds or 4ths or wherever they can get a game! Should it not be possible to allow exemptions through due process so these boys can just play a game of rugby with his mates on a Saturday!

 

[baldingwingforward]

I'm inlcined to agree with you on your points bushpig but you can't have one type of player i.e. the lower end of the spectrum without the other. If it was allowed in so bpys could just get a game at the weekend with their mates, unfortunately that would get abused by some schools and before you know it you've got very good players all of a sudden deciding that they need another year at school.

Anyway it would appear that all of this is irrelevant. I spoke to two mates today - one involved with GPS rugby the other with CAS. The CAS voted 5-1 against allowing overage players (guess who the 1 was?) and the GPS met today and voted unanimously against the proposal so it looks like the overage players are being kept out for at least another year.

 

[Thismybrotha]

i can foresee the pathways system being abused.

 

[Doc]

the system is already heavily abused by Qld schools now. You are "supposed" to finish at 17 in QLD, leaving 1 year up your sleeve. Players are already graduating at one school and coming back at another with this window, 2 years would be ridiculous. NC actions in last three or so years testify to this.

Personally, I think the 11&12 over 3 years needs to be reassessed. I remember it was initially for the elite athletes and cultural kids who would miss parts of school year competing. Ie junior world champs in athletics or long schoolboy tours, but now several of the schools have a large percentage of their players doing 11 and 12 over 3 years, despite not necessarily being an elite player who's missing school.

It is said but alot of people around the traps, schools included have forgotten what school is about. Drop the upper limit to the year you turn 17 in Qld (ie the natural finishing age), eliminate any of this rubbish all together. Might inspire some of those who struggle with school work to try a bit harder, rather than halve their load. From a rugby point of view it should help clean up this biased quagmire of 18 years olds playing 16 year olds and looking good. It's taken Link to come in a clean this mess up for Qld.

 

[barbarian]

i can foresee the pathways system being abused.

What do you mean 'foresee'? The pathways system has been abused for years. Nothing much you can do about it, because the guys abusing it tended to be at the lower end of the academic spectrum anyway and thus you couldn't really call them on it.

Reminds me of an old joke from school "You know what they say about Joeys year 12- it's the best three years of your life!'.

Not to finger point at Joeys specifically, but they did have a reputation for it.

 

[The Chosen]

I'm inlcined to agree with you on your points bushpig but you can't have one type of player i.e. the lower end of the spectrum without the other. If it was allowed in so bpys could just get a game at the weekend with their mates, unfortunately that would get abused by some schools and before you know it you've got very good players all of a sudden deciding that they need another year at school.

Anyway it would appear that all of this is irrelevant. I spoke to two mates today - one involved with GPS rugby the other with CAS. The CAS voted 5-1 against allowing overage players (guess who the 1 was?) and the GPS met today and voted unanimously against the proposal so it looks like the overage players are being kept out for at least another year.

Having been involved with Knox Rugby for over 8 years I find it very hard to believe that they would be pushing for such an exemption for 1 particular player. I have never known any players there to repeat years for Rugby reasons- no-one has been involved in Pathways at the School.

 

[Jets]

the system is already heavily abused by Qld schools now. You are "supposed" to finish at 17 in QLD, leaving 1 year up your sleeve. Players are already graduating at one school and coming back at another with this window, 2 years would be ridiculous. NC actions in last three or so years testify to this.

Personally, I think the 11&12 over 3 years needs to be reassessed. I remember it was initially for the elite athletes and cultural kids who would miss parts of school year competing. Ie junior world champs in athletics or long schoolboy tours, but now several of the schools have a large percentage of their players doing 11 and 12 over 3 years, despite not necessarily being an elite player who's missing school.

It is said but alot of people around the traps, schools included have forgotten what school is about. Drop the upper limit to the year you turn 17 in Qld (ie the natural finishing age), eliminate any of this rubbish all together. Might inspire some of those who struggle with school work to try a bit harder, rather than halve their load. From a rugby point of view it should help clean up this biased quagmire of 18 years olds playing 16 year olds and looking good. It's taken Link to come in a clean this mess up for Qld.

The age of graduates in Qld will change in the coming years when those that went through prep finish. Just keep schoolboy rugby as Under 18. School rugby is for kids and Senior club rugby is for men.

 

[International Badboy]

Perhaps you should consider the other situation. There are a number of Year 12 boys at these schools who turn 19 at some stage later in the year who have ended up in this situation because their families may have moved or they started later at school because of developmental issues when they were in preschool. They have not repeated any years and are not doing pathways. Many are passionate rugby players who have been told they can not play school rugby when they are in their final year of school. Many of these are not of First XV standard but would just like to play in the 3rds or 4ths or wherever they can get a game! Should it not be possible to allow exemptions through due process so these boys can just play a game of rugby with his mates on a Saturday!

this may be true but i think this is a case of keeping the schoolboy competition fair, instead of accomadating a few ( i noticed you used the word many) boys from missing a game on the weekend, i can see this being blown out into the problem QLD already have

 

[T.Rugby]

Having been involved with Knox Rugby for over 8 years I find it very hard to believe that they would be pushing for such an exemption for 1 particular player. I have never known any players there to repeat years for Rugby reasons- no-one has been involved in Pathways at the School.

I agree, from what i understand the school would never do pathways for any student. With regards to the proposal I'm pretty sure they are pushing for it as there are currently 3 students who were from the 2nds last year and played a couple of games for 1sts that are over age (including the aussie schoolboy). I personally don't think that there is a problem with allowing an overaged kid participating in opens rugby, as in this case 2 of these fellas have been at Knox since year 7 and 1 of them is from overseas.

perhaps if they brought in restrictions, students who have been at the school since year 7 or 8 are allowed to participate in the opens even if they are overage. and students who come in the years after cannot participate unless they are full paying?

i reckon that could weed out any school who wishes to abuse the system!

 

[I like to watch]

Why have any exceptions?
If you are 19 & still at school, play Colts with people your own age.

 

[bushpig]

This is easier said then done when you are a full time boarder with family living either overseas or in the country.

 

[I like to watch]

How many in this situation?
Why does there always have to be a special exemption for this & that?
If you are too old you are too old.
If you are 19 you can get around town on your own. if the School won't allow it, that is not a reason for changing rules/granting exemptions for all Schoolboys in the state.

 

[Done that]

I know of some boys , good players , who have played colts or grade because they are too old for school rugby .(Can think of 2 notable examples last year )
They were doing pathways , however because a boy is doing pathways it doesn't follow that he is too old for school rugby.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Pathways were the method of choice for many talented footballers( in this case League)/Cricketers to continue their schoolboy careers at my old High School.

 

[T.Rugby]

How many in this situation?
Why does there always have to be a special exemption for this & that?
If you are too old you are too old.
If you are 19 you can get around town on your own. if the School won't allow it, that is not a reason for changing rules/granting exemptions for all Schoolboys in the state.

yeh but why should kids who have been placed in a certain year group by their parents miss out while their fellow year-group get to enjoy "schoolboy rugby". they are still at school! i understand what you are saying and it makes sense too but it just seems unfair for kids who have been at the school since year 7 to miss out on their last year of rugby.

 

[I like to watch]

They are an exception. There are very few % wise 19 yo's in School.
In the vast majority of cases. kids who were born between jan & May? go to School a year earlier than those born later in the same year.They finish yr 12 as 17 yo's. Those born later in the year & start School the following year, then finish yr 12 as 18 yo's.
It is only the rare few where their particular circumstance dictated that they went a year later than their peers born at the same time.
In any event, we all know that dispensations are only ever sought for the "stars",not plodders making up the numbers in the 8ths.
19 is too old to play Schoolboy rugby in the 1's or the 8th's.

 

[CTPE]

This discussion probably raises the question why have "Opens" rugby in years 11 & 12? Age based teams work well in years 7 -10 with many underage boys playing U13 in year 7. Should there be a progression to U17 and U18 teams through years 11 and 12? What would this do to the GPS, CAS, CHS comps? (I personally like the current system of "Opens" rugby in years 11 and 12 but would be interested in others thoughts on U17 and U 18 teams)

 

[lincoln]

yeh but why should kids who have been placed in a certain year group by their parents miss out while their fellow year-group get to enjoy "schoolboy rugby". they are still at school! i understand what you are saying and it makes sense too but it just seems unfair for kids who have been at the school since year 7 to miss out on their last year of rugby.

Parent's should think about this before trying to give their sons a leg up over their year group - one school used to have a April 1 to Mar 31 policy - now you have kids stretching over three calender years. I would be interested to know why the Knox boy in question is in the year he is given he has lived all his life on the North Shore.