R
Roll Away Black 7
Guest
I think you'll find that a lot of the "boarders" you refer to wouldn't be permitted to play on a Sunday for clubs, at least they weren't in my day.
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Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
You know it just doesn't make sense.
If you traced all the available paths to the top as tree diagrams, and then you overlay the various platforms available for players to strut their stuff (i.e. Under 20, Under 17, Under 16, Super Rugby, Australia A, Australia 7s), there is a hell of a lot of options and talent on show, so you have to wonder why the wallabies continue to underperform.
At its broadest point (i.e. the start of the conveyor belt) - it would appear that the talent is being identified [except Norths U15 State Champion side being 99% one club].
Yes there will be high potential players lost to league and now AFL, but that still doesn't explain it.
Have to ask are the selectors genuine. Somehow, can't see a roughie like Phil Kearns being allowed to be plucked from obscurity anymore because he wasn't on some selectors radar or clipboard.
If you traced all the available paths to the top as tree diagrams, and then you overlay the various platforms available for players to strut their stuff (i.e. Under 20, Under 17, Under 16, Super Rugby, Australia A, Australia 7s), there is a hell of a lot of options and talent on show, so you have to wonder why the wallabies continue to underperform.
At its broadest point (i.e. the start of the conveyor belt) - it would appear that the talent is being identified [except Norths U15 State Champion side being 99% one club].
Yes there will be high potential players lost to league and now AFL, but that still doesn't explain it.
Have to ask are the selectors genuine. Somehow, can't see a roughie like Phil Kearns being allowed to be plucked from obscurity anymore because he wasn't on some selectors radar or clipboard.
Iluvmyfooty
Phil Hardcastle (33)
There was an article in last sunday's Sun herald about the development groups the ARU has Australia wide. I think that at present it was quoted that there are 785 junior players in the ARU squads Australia wide. It takes sometime for these juniors to progress through the ranks and mature into players of high enough calibre to progress to the most senior elite level.
i might be wrong but wasn't these groups remodelled just a few years ago. So the players coming thorugh there in the past years won't come onto the scene for possibly a couple of more years.
Another reason is that the best upcoming 25-30 young players coming through NZ in recent years have been just a bit better naturally than those coming through our system. Last year at the National Schoolboy level there wasn't much between NZ schools and Aus Schools so maybe we are catching up
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
agreed - it will take time for the results to filter through to the top.
Yes - the net is being thrown extremely widely, but I lack confidence that late bloomers will get caught in it, or it becomes increasingly difficult to jump the queue for the late bloomers, or they just stay off the radar becasue no-one appears to watch club colts anymore.
Yes - the net is being thrown extremely widely, but I lack confidence that late bloomers will get caught in it, or it becomes increasingly difficult to jump the queue for the late bloomers, or they just stay off the radar becasue no-one appears to watch club colts anymore.
stonecutter
Chris McKivat (8)
Too many academies and gold squads/glee clubs
Spewn
Alex Ross (28)
Spot on.
That article in the SMH on the glee clubs and talented infants was a crummy marketing ploy.
I'm not so sure the net is cast wide. It is cast about an inch over a few players who looked good at 10.
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
NO - too much vested interest and self promotion - the net is spread wide - unfortunately the net has gate keepers!
I
International Badboy
Guest
I find it confusing talking to people about Player x and player y because it always seems it comes down to....
Player A goes to ......, is in NTS and represents gordon at the statechamps (just an example)
Player B goes to (Non GPS/CAS) represents CCC and plays in a bad District team
i agree with the too many academies/squads comments. I think players need to be reassesed and selected each year, to me it seems like one you win State champs at u13/14 you are on the gravy train
Player A goes to ......, is in NTS and represents gordon at the statechamps (just an example)
Player B goes to (Non GPS/CAS) represents CCC and plays in a bad District team
i agree with the too many academies/squads comments. I think players need to be reassesed and selected each year, to me it seems like one you win State champs at u13/14 you are on the gravy train
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
& it's not that radically deifferent in other sports - cricket NSW & the emerging blues being a case in point
an observer
Herbert Moran (7)
should have been 8, at least!
CTPE
Nev Cottrell (35)
And at least four of them are in the NSW Junior Gold Squads (formerly NTS)
lincoln
Bob Loudon (25)
I think BWF on another thread summed it up well - the cream usually rises to the top in Colts and Grade. Unfortunately my club seems to have a disproportionate number of better players, which tends to allow the "Name" players to continually look good while playing in a dominant team. Having said that it is encouraging to see the likes of Luke Burgess and potentially guys like Aldi King come through the programme.
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
Unfortunately - even when the selectors get it right, the coaches can screw it up / over - see nsw u16 strand & discussion about CCC.
Joe Mac
Arch Winning (36)
Yes the current system is flawed and yes, if you have played in one of these teams the chance of making to the next level are increased but to do anything different would cost too much money.
Until the ARU can find 500 odd independent & unbiased volunteers to spend every saturday watching every game, I think having these teams is a step in the right direction.
Im interested in reading a different solution if anyone on here feels like writing something constructive...
Until the ARU can find 500 odd independent & unbiased volunteers to spend every saturday watching every game, I think having these teams is a step in the right direction.
Im interested in reading a different solution if anyone on here feels like writing something constructive...
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
I wasn't at the game but there was a heck of an uproar on the schools U16 thread about some of the tactical choices made by coaches as to what players got what game time. Reading between the lines, some believe that CCC v GPS should have been the main final.
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
500 selectors is amazing overkill (tongue in cheek). The issue is what is the outcome you seek to get. If it is that the 45 or so boys selected from 100 or so GPS 1st XVs are accurately ranked 1 - 45, then yes - you'll need 500 selectors. If the outcome is to identify the best 45 to go into a tournament where they go head to head with their peers from other school associations, then 5 selectors is probably OK.
At the end of the day, I would be beyond surprised if any serious candidates for Aust XV or Aust "A" didn't get onto the first rung of the ladder. They may not be picked in GPS or CAS or whatever 1st XV, but they got an invitation to participate - what they do once they are there and in open competition is up to them.
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
Just love big generalisations - i'm on the record as pointing out that the net is cast wide, but it's a shame that the net has gate keepers. That aside, as I understand it, CHS have regional teams which play a tournament from which is selected the CHS teamS!
You infer that selection into Aust schoolboys is restricted to GPS & CAS players- how does that explain QLD players? Or are you suggesting that some Aust XV player didn't even make it to square 1?
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