Selection politics and bias, Gold Squads unfairness etc.

Could anyone provide a team list of players who didn't make it at Schoolboy level now doing well Like Burgess and King ?

MOTH

Sweeping generalizations are my forte. I am implying that some players who are good enough for Oz schoolboys don't make it to square 1. In other words, the pool of talent is wider than some think (ie those that imagine the only decent players looking forward are those who played Oz schoolboys). Hardly controversial.

Big call - want to throw some details behind that? & don't put in names from the past who made it to the top even though they didn't play elite schoolboy rugby - fact is - they probably weren't good enough as schoolboys, but continued to work on their game and got there through that hard work.

That was what I was going to say.

Agree. The best thing parents can do is to encourage the kids who don't get picked to not give up and work on their weaknesses. You don't get anywhere in life without putting in the hard work - same goes for your education. In NZ a child plays club rugby only from 5 - 13yrs, once they hit high school they no longer play club rugby again until they leave school. It seems to work well. Hope the junior rugby in NSW improves but then you can't please everyone!

Confidence

Lance Armstrong probably said it best in his book Its Not About the Bike:

'The world is full of people who are trying to purchase self confidence, manufacture it, or who simply posture it. You cannot fake confidence, you must earn it. The only way to earn it is to work at it. You have to do the work.'

Any kid with raw talent who is prepared to do the work has a chance of making it. It doesn't matter if they are in the school system or playing club; if they are prepared to work at it they will be noticed. It is then up to them to lift to each new challenge that presents and prove to themselves, their peers and the selectors that they are worthy of taking the next step. This can (and often should) take years as some kids are simply not ready for the next step yet.

They need to play rugby to gain proficiency and confidence in their abilities before being given the privilege of taking the next step.

You have got me wondering now!!!

Given that the St. Auggies Fabian Natoli is not in the NSW 1st's this year, when it is my opinion that he thouroughly deserves to be there, has me now wondering if it because he has not taken up a spot in the ARU's JGS.

Those who are not aware, Natoli is both a league and rugby player. Made various distignuished rep teams including the NSWRL U/16's in 2010, NSWCCC U/18's RL team in 2011, and Manly's SG Ball squad in 2011 (and as a 17 year old, which is no mean feat!!). Not forgetting the numerous NSW rugby representive teams he had made!

I have been informed of another lad who has initially been penciled in for selection in for the U/16's NSW Schools team by the School selectors (and he performed exceptionally well), however he is presently not in the ARU JGS and am wondering if he will now be precluded as a result of the above mentioned theory!

I will keeps all posted!

Regards,
Newbie.

Yes there are some conspiracy theories in relation to Rep selection and ARU JGS selection, however at U16 level i think it is less likely/prevalent. At U16 level very few players are full time members of the Gold squad (i think Andrew Kellaway is the only U16 player in the full squad atm - please name others if you know of any).

Following the U16 Nationals, and once the current crop of U18 players have been offloaded, that is when the new ARU JGS is selected. After that - i.e. when they go in to the Opens age group, that is when there seems to me to be more examples of favouritism for some of the chosen few.

On the subject of Michael Wells however - i think he has made a few people eat their words this year with the level of his performances.

The GPS selectors have shown how inept they are at selecting teams. Carroll from Shore was elevated from GPS 3rds (should never have been that low) to NSW 2s starting winger from 1 full game and a brief 10minute cameo for GPS 2. He is not in any ARU programmes or talent squads so he is proof that if you play well enough you are a very good chance of getting picked. Are people going to whinge if he gets to Australian Schoolboys.

BWF

An even better example of the GPS selection process is the case of Max Jones from Kings. Originally selected as a bench player for GPS III's then on the bench for GPS II's in the second game. He has now been selected on the bench for NSW II's. He also is not in any ARU program.

I think its about time an Auggies player experiences the feeling of being unfairly left out of a rep side as there has been numerous cases of Auggies boys taking the spots of other more deserving players

What school association did he represent in last weekend's U16s Schools Champs?

BWF,

I hear what you are saying mate and subscribe to your point of view. In other words talent does not evolve in a vacuum, it is always exisits and sometimes it takes that one coach/selector with a keen sense of acuity to identify that x factor that others can't see. In your example it has been Michael Wells, a lad who apparently never let his opportunuty go to waste . carpe diem!!!!

I however I am trying to ascertain if NS's theory has some credibility (it is not the first time I have heard his assertion). I will go out on a limb a suggest that it does because the lad who I believe will be adversely affected is (ironically) in the same situation as Fabian Natoli (and for the benefit of CTPE here, can I respectfully ask if I can defer my answer until after 6 July. However CTPE I would be willing to answer you privately if you would keep the same in confidence).

I personally have an understanding of the internal mechanics of the Harold Matthews (U/16) and SG Ball (U/18) league competitons. As stated earlier Natoli is presently in the Manly SG Ball team (as an under 17) and even though the comp is now finished preparatory training for next year would have probably commenced like most other NRL clubs. During the season proper SG Ball teams generally train 4 nights a week (with Thursday being the normal rest day), and as such I will suggest that would leave someone like Natoli with no time to train or play rugby other that in school.

The point I am trying to make is this; someone of Natoli's talent would have definitely been approached by the ARU to join its JGS and/or NTS, however he probably would not have had the time to attend given what I have said above. I know there will be some here (and quite rightly so) who will suggest that why should rugby spend time and resources trying to develop players who will probably go to league, and I agree. However the question I then ask in response is this; has rugby done all it can to hold on to the talent his presently has?

In support of my assertion I would invite all and sundry to google a 'Daily Telegraph' article from 29 June 2010 about Rob Horne. The article is titled "How Rob Horne was almost lost to a rival code" . Read the extract pertaining to the intervention by Manu Sutherland, and then ask if somone like Fabian Natoli was given the same courtesy? I believe that such an exercise is warranted, and if it has occurred. Let Natoli rot in the NSWII's!

Regards,
Newbie

Maybe the current system wouldn't be as flawed and more resources would be available if the people running the NTS weren't on a bonus system (more $) when their NTS players gain higher selection honors. This is why the NTS players are looked at more favourably for the higher rep honors and Acadamy positions as their mentors stand to benefit with a financial bonus.

Is that true? A payment bonus system?

1.
2. Phil Kearns- Newinton College 2nd XV
3. Bill Young- St. Joseph's 3rd XV
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5. Justin Harrison- Didn't play Union until University
6. Scott Higginbotham- TSS 3rd XV
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8. John Roe- BBC 3rd XV
9. Nick Farr-Jones (c)- Newington College 2nd XV
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11.
12.
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14.
15.
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16. Tai McIsaac- Started playing Rugby after professional Water-polo for Aust.
17.
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20. Luke Burgess- St. Joseph's 2nd XV
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22.

No its not true and it is another example of not letting facts get in the way of a good story

To be fair Carroll has come into form only this year and his aspirations were to make the Shore 2nd XV. I'm sure he's surprised himself with how well he is playing. Can't blame the ARU programmes for not picking up the likes of Carroll. Best of luck to him in championships a well deserved spot based on recent performance.

John Roe played firsts for BBC, even played flyhalf as I recall.

From waaaaaaay back, Declan CURRAN SJC 3rd XV in the late seventies and went on to be a Wallaby prop.