SOPA & PIPA

[spooony]

First of all, here is the crew list from Fantasia
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032455/fullcredits#cast
Second of all, here is the crew list from piracy
Bigboy69

A lot of people work for Disney, a lot of people worked on the project, yes the use of music has been disputed in courts, settlements have been made and laws in regards to copyright have been made to address this. I don't see why laws shouldn't change again to addrss it now.

The justification from the "pirates" side is so weak. Suggesting that an "argument could be made for loss of sales" is rediculus. If a product has demand and people make copies of it for freel, then sales and therefore revenue suffer. The next time something gets made, instead of a crew of 200, suddenly there is 150 and then 100. All cos the fat ass in his mums basement probably wouldn't have gone to the store anyway.

There seems to be this groudwell of support that because someone is rich at some end that its alright to take from them. That they have ripped everyone off. That's all well and good, but would you do your job for less cos someone was worse off than you? For every paramount pictures or Disney there are thousands of little independents struggling just like local shops, the time frame for them to make profit off there films and shows is vitually non existent now. It's only going to get worse and yet suddenly everyone seems to think there entitled to whatever they can get.

The arrogance to post a list of people wanting to sue you on the front page of your website, or host a site out of your ow country to get around laws just shows how stupid and arrogant these people are that when someone try's to do something about it they sit there and claim freedom of speech. There scum nothing more, and I hope each and everyone of them gets taken to the cleaners.

How can it be arrogant when they don't host any illegal content? That statement is just showing how stupid those companies are.
Fantasia has grossed $76.4 million in domestic revenue and is the 22nd highest-grossing film of all time in the U.S. when adjusted for inflation.
The cost to make it was just over $125,000. Those crew work for the studios like anyone else work for a company. So its not creating a job and there are no actors since its a cartoon.

In May 1992, the Philadelphia Orchestra filed a lawsuit against The Walt Disney Company and Buena Vista Home Video. The orchestra maintained that as a co-creator of Fantasia, the group was entitled to half of the estimated $120 million in profits from video and laser disc sales.[90] The orchestra dropped its case in 1994 when the two parties reached an undisclosed settlement out of court.[123] British music publisher Boosey & Hawkes filed a further lawsuit in 1993, contending that Disney did not have the rights to distribute The Rite of Spring in the 1991 VHS home video release because the permission granted to Disney by Stravinsky in 1940 was only in the context of a film to be shown in theaters.[124] The United States district court backed Boosey & Hawkes's case in 1996,[125] but the Second Circuit Court of Appeals reversed the ruling in 1998, stating that Disney's original "license for motion picture rights extends to video format distribution.

Oh yes like they knew back in 1940 that VHS is going to be invented. They released that movie about 10 times. 75 million plus 120 million screwing the others out of it. Stravinsky gave them permission in 1940 for the theater. But since the bloke is dead we can use that loophole. Just like Piratebay use that loophole of since we are not hosting any of the files we are not breaking any copyright laws.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

"I hope SOPA passes": http://maddox.xmission.com/

 

[waratahjesus]

How can it be arrogant when they don't host any illegal content? That statement is just showing how stupid those companies are.
Fantasia has grossed $76.4 million in domestic revenue and is the 22nd highest-grossing film of all time in the U.S. when adjusted for inflation.
The cost to make it was just over $125,000. Those crew work for the studios like anyone else work for a company. So its not creating a job and there are no actors since its a cartoon.



Oh yes like they knew back in 1940 that VHS is going to be invented. They released that movie about 10 times. 75 million plus 120 million screwing the others out of it. Stravinsky gave them permission in 1940 for the theater. But since the bloke is dead we can use that loophole. Just like Piratebay use that loophole of since we are not hosting any of the files we are not breaking any copyright laws.

The crew are not all studio employees and rarely are, Disney has a group of head animators and hires more depending on projects, creation of jobs is there. Also, the people that play the voices are actors and are often contracted per performance, job creation. Fantasia was a long music clip, the band were employed, more job creation. The royalties and money they have been rewarded since for re releases and settlements increase there salaries and serve to make the job longer in a way.

Most actors when you hear the 20 million number banded around only get about 3-5 million up front then rely on ticket, DVD and merchant sales to earn royalties up to that number.

Yes, in this example Disney pushed legal boundaries to profit, as the courts and settlements ave seen they have payed a price for it.

Pirate bay, I called arrogant as they know dam well they are assisting with the distribution of copyrighted material. The name alone s arrogant. Claiming one is a pirate only illustrates there belief in what they are doing. They are effectively driving a getaway car for the people robbing others intellectual property.

I'm nit asking people to feel as strongly as I do or to change there minds. I'm just trying to say, if you file share something that is copywrited you knw full well you are stealing it and that in some way will have an effect on someone down the line. Your basically upstream pissing in a river. If you do it fine. But when people attempt to take those to task that promote and spread it,to stand and claim moral high ground is completely redundant

 

[spooony]

The crew are not all studio employees and rarely are, Disney has a group of head animators and hires more depending on projects, creation of jobs is there. Also, the people that play the voices are actors and are often contracted per performance, job creation. Fantasia was a long music clip, the band were employed, more job creation. The royalties and money they have been rewarded since for re releases and settlements increase there salaries and serve to make the job longer in a way.

Most actors when you hear the 20 million number banded around only get about 3-5 million up front then rely on ticket, DVD and merchant sales to earn royalties up to that number.

Yes, in this example Disney pushed legal boundaries to profit, as the courts and settlements ave seen they have payed a price for it.

Pirate bay, I called arrogant as they know dam well they are assisting with the distribution of copyrighted material. The name alone s arrogant. Claiming one is a pirate only illustrates there belief in what they are doing. They are effectively driving a getaway car for the people robbing others intellectual property.

I'm nit asking people to feel as strongly as I do or to change there minds. I'm just trying to say, if you file share something that is copywrited you knw full well you are stealing it and that in some way will have an effect on someone down the line. Your basically upstream pissing in a river. If you do it fine. But when people attempt to take those to task that promote and spread it,to stand and claim moral high ground is completely redundant

I understand your point. The use of Piratebay and Disney was just a example that the Industry and Pirates are not that different from each other.

Also one is being done on the Internet while the other thing is being done the Biz industry. Another good example are the music industry. I mean selling MP3 music. Selling MP3's is like selling 2nd hand underwear on Ebay. They have taken the original content then sacrificed quality for size so they can a million of them on server. Now it cost you nothing to do that as you rip and copy it. They can copy a song over and over and it will cost them nothing. Then they sell it online making use profits. Look at CD's. Prices going up but putting a song to disk today doesn't cost more than it did 10 years ago. Then they will let a artist put 2 good songs on it then hold back the other for the follow up cd. Really what do they expect charging $20 for a cd with 1 or 2 good songs on? People are going to download those two songs and thats it. They blame it on piracy. But in reality they are forcing crap down our throats.

Even those pirated movies. I mean serious its back of the theater cam crap with a sound track that sounds like a 64bit mp3 playing on a PA speaker. You have to tilt your tv on the side to level it out. If the movie is good pirate or no pirate will go buy the dvd or blueray version. That pirated version doesn't hurt it one bit. Now really old movies. some you can't even find in some countries or a series that wasn't released in another country. They passed that opportunity not to sell it in that country so if the people from that country jump on the torrent bandwagon to get it do they lose money? No yet they wanna put it that way. Some countries they even ask more than others. Thats why games get pirated because in the poor countries they charge $20 more than in the USA. I know Australia pay way more for titles than in other countries.So what do they expect? Those people can't afford it so they are not going to buy it anyways so if they pirate it to get it no one is losing money. It has become so ridiculous that Apple has patented the slide. A thing that was invented ages ago. They incorporated it into their phones and patented it. And the US courts are eating it up because if they rule against a big shot someone in the goverment will quickly try to pass a bill to change that for the future. And thats what is exactly happening now.

It reminds me of HBGary a big shot internet security firm. They went after Lulzsec and bragged they are going to expose members of them the following week. Do you know what happened to HBGary? They got humiliated by the hackers. They didn't practice what they preached and CEO resigned cause of it. Look at Sony as well.

Have a look here how guys who get paid by companies to sharpen up their online security made the same mistakes they are trying to fix on other peoples PC's. It was bloody funny you wouldn't believe how dumb some are

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

Well, it's been a few days since the US government shit down "megaupload", one of the leading "pirate" websites.

I wonder how much extra million in revenue the movie companies have been making ever since? The money must be pouring in...

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

I borrowed a book off my mate yesterday and read it without paying anyone. Should I hand myself into the cops?

 

[Schadenfreude]

I'm waiting for the point when they figure out what libraries have been doing...

 

[mark_s]

I borrowed a book off my mate yesterday and read it without paying anyone. Should I hand myself into the cops?

did you make a profit out of it? Thats the supposed difference isn't it otheriwse you would need to dob yourself in everytime you read over someone shoulder on the train.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

This war on "file sharing" isn't about whether people are making profit. It is about getting people who share media with others put in jail.

But that isn't the real crime. People linking to people sharing files are the real thefts in all this. Bunch of nazi's the lot of them.

 

[waratahjesus]

yep Nazis, this thread is over. good call.

everythings free for everyone! freaking germans.

 

[Swat]

yep Nazis, this thread is over. good call.

everythings free for everyone! freaking germans.

Godwin's Law - It's only ever a matter of time

 

[Ignoto]

I'm nit asking people to feel as strongly as I do or to change there minds. I'm just trying to say, if you file share something that is copywrited you knw full well you are stealing it and that in some way will have an effect on someone down the line.

The problem is only made worse by the MPAA/RIAA's lack of innovation and willing to change their business models.

It's common knowledge that Australia has the highest rate of illegal downloads in the world, why? Because the consumers here are jerked around by shows and movies are delayed in showing times and irregular showing times. For example, Breaking Bad's four season ended late last year and in Australia they were only showing season one. How is it fair that we are forced to wait years for a blockbuster show to air here?

People are willing to pay to view shows online, they're happy to pay for an entire season's worth so they can view it when they want and where they want. A decade or so ago, the MPAA/RIAA were so against people recording tv shows because it would ruin them (hey guess what, they're still making bulk money). Instead of embracing the new technology, these corporations are kicking and screaming to keep the old ways.

Another point I'd like to make is, if I go out and purchase a dvd-set of Top Gear season 4, I am legally able to make my own personal back up of this tv show. I've got my own personal computer set up which contains all my shows/movies so I hate physical copies, I want electronic copies. If I want to make a copies of tv season/s it would take days to rip it (which I'm legally able to do), but it would be illegal for me to download a copy from the internet. At either end of this process I will have one physical copy and one electronic copy, so why should the process in which I get there matter?

People always talk about "voting with your feet" and going else where. The problem is, there is no other option. They control so much of our media/entertainment that there is nothing people can do bar illegally download. If these corporations were willing to adapt and change piracy would go down significantly.

 

[waratahjesus]

The uptake of technology has been slow. But in regard to your top gear comment. You are not actually legally allowed to copy it in anyway shape or form if you actually read the copyright warning on every bit of media sold on video/DVD for the last 30 years. It's there in print.

A lot of DVD for sale are being released now with a digital copy. There signing online distribution deals as well. There up take has been slow, but it still doesn't give the right to steal.

 

[Ignoto]

The uptake of technology has been slow. But in regard to your top gear comment. You are not actually legally allowed to copy it in anyway shape or form if you actually read the copyright warning on every bit of media sold on video/DVD for the last 30 years. .

Sorry got confused with being able to do it with CD's and Video's http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s110aa.html It's pathetic that you can format-shift music and video's but not dvd's.

What's your argument against the delay in screening of movies and tv-shows. There's simply no excuse for them not to air within a day/night of other countries. For example, Californication airs in the States Midday our time. Why can it not be shown Monday night on Australian tv.

More importantly, it's not stealing or theft. I can't stand when people claim it is. It is Copyright Infringement!

 

[waratahjesus]

The reason for delays are as varied as they are stupid. The only way it's going to change is if the ratings system changes.

Here are some though (and I say these with training in network programming and working on one if the main aus channels in that role for a while)

-when programs are bought at the television fair, it is sometimes cheaper to buy them after they have finished airing in there home country. (nit sure why, but it's true)

-ratings periods not matching up.

-lack of embrace of technology. A lot of programs are sent hard copy not digitally.

-if a show is rating well in America it means an aus network can up advertising for the initial sale of the program.

-social media, shows now get cancelled, delayed and shafted around due to feedback and ratings, most shows are sold on the notion they can't be broadcast before there shown locally meaning aus has to shelve some series, waiting for episodes to back up means local programming can address these issues.

 

[waratahjesus]

Just on some previous posts about libraries.
If you read the terms and conditions you can loan a book from one, but it is illegal to photocopy it.
This would mean, it's legal for you to buy and share your DVD but illegal for you to burn and distribute copies.

 

[Ignoto]

The reason for delays are as varied as they are stupid.

Yet the public outside of the States are made to suffer due to the stupidity of the networks in the States. If it was any other business, if they didn't adapt they would be left for dead. But, because of all the money behind the Studios, they're able to take to fight to congressmen who have no idea about the internet and buy their way in.

Illegal it may be, but it comes straight back to these media companies not willing to cater for the audiences. Its exactly what's going on here in Australia with the retail sector. Consumers are sick to death of paying such huge markups that they're buying their goods online and we hear how multi-millionaires such as Gerry Harvey who don't want to adapt cry for change!

The music studios complained about piracy so Apple invented the iTunes store where finding and downloading a song is simpler than torrenting. Yet the music industry kicked and screamed that their profits would be driven down (yet forgetting their overheads would be slashed) and that people would still pirate. iTunes must generate billions of dollars for them, which illustrates that people are willing to support the music they love if they're able to listen to it in a way that suits them!

 

[spooony]

The uptake of technology has been slow. But in regard to your top gear comment. You are not actually legally allowed to copy it in anyway shape or form if you actually read the copyright warning on every bit of media sold on video/DVD for the last 30 years. It's there in print.

A lot of DVD for sale are being released now with a digital copy. There signing online distribution deals as well. There up take has been slow, but it still doesn't give the right to steal.

you mean illegally copying it. Theft and Piracy there's a huge difference.

 

[waratahjesus]

Making a copy is theft. It's in the terms and conditions of the product sale for all digital media that it's intellectual property is copyrighted and illegal copying is considered a crime of theft.

Just cos "pirates" want to pretend there robin hood, doesn't make them anything short of nerdy criminals.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

Sure, that is what the law says, but the laws are moronic.

It is OK to lend someone a book, but if someone photocopy's the chapters for a friend they are "thieves", even though the intellectual property was not paid for by the friend in either situation.

I understand why the laws are like this. But the fact is, we shouldn't be using the law to decide what is immoral behavior or not. Or who should be labelled a thief and who shouldn't.