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Springbokke going on tour and comparison to the past ones

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PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Before being called a gloater on this forum, i just want to paint my picture of the current Springbok team of where I think they are at the moment and where I think they will end and compare it with my past experiense of good Bok sides of yester year.

In my lifetime I lived three Springbok eras.

As a youngster I maybe grew up poor moneywise but will never forget we had a little kiddies playground in Alexander Bay, small diamond mine toen right up north west along the Orange River and close to the Namib desert. We had this playground surrounded with trees, some nice playing stuff but with a smallies rugby field with everything and even rugby poles. We'd made our own teams and one was always the Springbokke, those days we had Gerhard Viviers (Spiekeries) as a commentator and Spiekeries would climb in the tree and commentate from the top of the tree, loud. Each kid in the team would pick his own Springbok name and those days we had one hell of a Springbok team. I'll still pick that team out of my head:
HO de Villiers, Syd Nomis, Eben Olivier (the first Bok signature I got as a kid), Mannetjies Roux, Gert Brynard (his nephew was one of my pelle),Red Head Piet Visagie, WitKop Dawie de Villiers, Tommy Bedford, Jan Ellis, Piet Greyling, Frik du Preez, Tiny Naude, Hannes Marais, Gys Pitzer & Tiny Neethling. In my books that was a huge team.

As I grow up as a young man we had the 1981 class. Now that lot I do really rate , still believe they were the best Bok team I know, maybe it was the circumstances they had to play in or maybe it was just becuase I still believe they would have nicked that first WC with ease or maybe it was that during that time my beloved WP (they nick the CC 5 times in a row since 1982) & Bulls were top class teams and played our own WC due to the isolation.

Then we had the 1995 WC winning side. Never a big team on names but surely remarkable we just got back from isolation and winning the trophe in our first attempt. our country needed that one desperately and Christie and Pienaar did a fantastic job.

Why am I telling or with due respect to my Aussie friend Lee , i s harping on this. Not to gloat on our current team but to try and get you on the way that isolating Bokke classes mindset they had and try and get to the current Bok team and see the way they compare or where they are at this current moment. That Bokke did not went to NZ or Australia to win ONE away test. They went there with the mindset to win a rugby test series and in the process try and do the impossible to do a clean sweep. Thats the differense since readmission, we havent had a Bok team with this mindset. The 1995 class had the oppertunity but was knock out in 1996 with the home All Black tour.

The Bok class of 2009 is now for the first time in a position to try and rectify this. They won the WC in 2007, havent had a good 2008 TriNation tournament but since then have move on considerably. They just beat the BIL, they beat both the Wallabies and All Blacks at home but now they have to hit another nail. They have to win the 3 Nations at least before I will judge them close to the class of 1981. The current nr1 rrating is not good enough for me, I want us to stay there.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
It's hard to judge some of those earlier Bok teams during the period of isolation because their games weren't on TV on a regular basis.

The Boks may have won the 1987 RWC, we will never know, but they would never have won it unless they had been out of isolation for a few years. We saw in 1992 how the All Blacks and the World Champon Wallabies beat them at home comfortably because they weren't up to speed in modern rugby.

Another reason why I doubt they would have won is because that All Black team of 1987 was the start of one of the great teams of modern rugby. They went for years being undefeated and the Wallabies were fortunate that they had just passed their used-by date by 1991. We had the same experience in 1995 as many of our guys were over the hill and/or playing injured because we had no depth.

The 1981 Bok team was good but don't forget that NZ beat them in the series 2-1. And they weren't a great team either as Oz had beaten the All Blacks 2-1 the year before, though they claimed, for the first time, that they had been poisoned before the 3rd test.

Still, it must have been very difficult for the Boks to play well on that tour from hell.

Old timers in NZ always said that the 1937 Bok team was the best they ever saw. It was bloody hard to win a test series there in those days. But maybe the best Bok team was from the period 1949 to about 1952. They beat the All Blacks 4-0 at home as Bob Scott couldn't land a goal for NZ and Okey Geffin, a prop, kicked them over from everywhere. They won another Grand Slam on the 1951 tour also.

Mallets team was the best in the pro era IMO. They won 17 on the trot including a skinny win of 1 point in Perth When Oz had no plan for a drop goal.

To get bumped up to their level this Boks team will have to win 2 out of 3 in Oz and NZ I reckon.

They may do it too.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Thanks Lee, well you know the previous stock quite well.

The soul reason why I keep on dwelling on that 1981 side is the fact that they played out of isolation straight into the most difficult of tours in NZ.

Your qoute
We saw in 1992 how the All Blacks and the World Champon Wallabies beat them at home comfortably because they weren't up to speed in modern rugby.

thats what was quite remarkable for 1981. That same player base reached their top form in 1987. I know it will never happen but asumed they had the oppertunities like the current crop, playing everywhere.

Agree on
To get bumped up to their level this Boks team will have to win 2 out of 3 in Oz and NZ I reckon

but will see if
They may do it too.
will happen before talking about the top Bok team as one of the best in history.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Here are the teams of the four different eras
Just compare this Bok teams:
15 HO de villiers-Gysie Pienaar-Andre Joubert-Frans Steyn
14 Jannie Engelbrecht-Ray Mordt-James Small-Brain Habana
13 Mannetjies Roux-Danie Gerber-Japie Mulder-Jac Fourie
12 Eben Olivier-Willie Doep-Hennie le Roux-Jean de Villiers
11 Syd Nomis-Gerrie Germishuys-Chester Williams-JP Pietersen
10 Piet Visagie-Naas Botha-Joel Stransky-Morne Steyn
9 Dawie de Villiers-Divan Serfontein-Joost vd Westhuizen-Fourie du Preez
8 Tommy Bedford-Wynand Claasen-Mark Andrews-Pierre Spies
7 Piet Greyling-Burger Geldenhuys-Ruben Kruger-Juan Smith
6 Jan Ellis-Rob Louw-Francois Pienaar-Brussouw
5 Frik du Preez-Louis Moolman-Hannes Strydom-Matfield
4 Tiny Naude-Hennie Bekker-Kobus Wiese-Bakkies
3 Hannes Marais-Hempies du Toit-Balie Swart-John Smit
2 Gys Pitzer-Robert Cockrell-James Dalton-Bismarck
1 Tiny Neethling-Ockie Oosthuizen-Os du Randt-Beast
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
Don't forget that the Lions toured the RSA in 1980 playing 4 tests, and that France visited for a test later in the year. In 1981 they played Ireland twice at home before they went to NZ. [Isn't Google great?]

That 1981 team in NZ wouldn't have been too far off the pace with those tests against the Lions, France and Ireland under their belt in little more than a year's span, but the biggest disadvantage for them in NZ that year was having to play in a hateful environment of protest.

In that respect their 1981 record should be applauded. That 3rd test was a close run thing.


The teams from the 4 eras - well, it's a pity we saw so little of the players in the 1st 2 teams in this neck of the woods. mention Frik du Preez here to a fellow sitting next to you at a rugby game and he would shrug his shoulders in ignorance.

One question - who the hell was strong enough to lift up Kobus Wiese at lineout time?
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Lee Grant said:
One question - who the hell was strong enough to lift up Kobus Wiese at lineout time?
:lmao: ja thats a good one. Kobus jump at 2 and it was more about timing. He never had the Bakkies lineout skills but sure match him in the grunt and scrumming departments.

Frik sure was one hell of a lock. He drop, place and score WP into eternaty on his day. Gareth Edwards qouted on one of the Boots & All shows with the BIL tour he never saw a more mobile lock in his life then Frik.

If you watch the team that played against the Lions in 1980, you'll see the Bokke biggest talisman, Morne du Plessis and the total frontrow plus Moaner retired before the 1981 tour.

Try http://www.genslin.us/bokke/ much better then google.
 
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