Springbokke vs Wallabies @ Osfontein 30/9/2017

[Killer]

Foley plays the 10 well, but like on Sun he needs to threaten the line more, his defence probably needs some work too but is not as bad as everyone seems to think imo.
The back line on Sun functioned really well, while they were watching the centres especially Beale, Foley and the wingers were running amok, it's what we need, unpredictability. See how the next Bled goes V NZ.
If Hunt comes back, the only spot I can see for him is FB, if he does take FB, then I don't think Folau deserves to displace Hodge or Koroibete at this stage so to the bench. Won't happen though, Hunt will probably live on the bench until we get some injuries.

 

[wamberal]

I would put Hunt into the 12 jersey, Beale can go to the finishers.

 

[Derpus]

Foley plays the 10 well, but like on Sun he needs to threaten the line more, his defence probably needs some work too but is not as bad as everyone seems to think imo.
The back line on Sun functioned really well, while they were watching the centres especially Beale, Foley and the wingers were running amok, it's what we need, unpredictability. See how the next Bled goes V NZ.
If Hunt comes back, the only spot I can see for him is FB, if he does take FB, then I don't think Folau deserves to displace Hodge or Koroibete at this stage so to the bench. Won't happen though, Hunt will probably live on the bench until we get some injuries.

How could you put Folau on the bench he's in the form of his life?

 

[Sully]

identity confirmed. kaop = quade's mum.

Rule 6 6. Play the ball not the man / No personal abuse of forum members, players, officials and public figures. Keep it clean!

 

[Derpus]

Yeah, I see Lealiifano as the most likely to be challenging Foley until Cooper decides to consistently bend his back in defence FFS. Get run over, get stepped, but bend your back and have a go in defense. Arm grabbing in defense is unacceptable

(Beale can have this disease at times as well)

Beale's shot at tackling Kolisi with a full head of steam down the wing was pretty cringe inducing. The dude must have 20kg's on him and he goes high. Whatever happened to 'the bigger they are, the harder they fall'.

 

[Derpus]

Most don't seem to see it that way. I'm hoping that K Hunt will force Cheika's hand.

I think Folau's limitations are pretty well documented and accepted. I'd have him at 11 over Hodge. Somehow Koroibete is getting all the 'positionally questionable' criticisms but, man, Hodge was shockers in this regard. Letting the smallest guy on the field tackle a steamrolling number 8 because you've been caught out is shockers. He also got lucky with those backtracking intercepts. The only time Koroibete was out of position was when he'd intentionally been shifted to the left wing in attack and there was a turnover.

 

[Braveheart81]

Let's not forget that Folau has scored 11 tries in 8 games this season breaking the all time Wallabies record and still has 5 tests to play.

For the things he does wrong, he does a huge amount right.

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[wamberal]

Let's not forget that Folau has scored 11 tries in 8 games this season breaking the all time Wallabies record and still has 5 tests to play.

For the things he does wrong, he does a huge amount right.

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Maybe it was not a mistake to buy him, after all.

 

[Killer]

Not to say he is better than Folau but Hunt can't take Beales position atm, need to see what Hunt brings in any opportunities he gets.
Ref Beale he is currently a defence magnet so moving him would be detrimental to the entire backline I think.

 

[Dctarget]

I was/am extremely unhappy about Beale being included in the team (not because of his playing abilities). But purely looking at his form, benching him right now would be ludicrous. I think Hunt has a lot to offer but he can make his case from the bench.

That is of course unless Cheika wants to be bit experimental and put Folau on the wing and Hunt can go 15.

A backline of 9. Genia 10. Foley 11. Folau 12. Beale 13. TK 14. Koroibete 15. Hunt is pretty attractive right now.

 

[TSR]

Fully fit and in form I would find a place for Hunt in the starting team.

But he has been out injured for a fair while. Bring him back via the bench and let him demand selection.

 

[TOCC]

Let's not forget that Folau has scored 11 tries in 8 games this season breaking the all time Wallabies record and still has 5 tests to play.

For the things he does wrong, he does a huge amount right.

From memory all those have been on the end of a backline move, not from counter attacking off a kick return.. realistically he could have scored most of those tries if not more by playing wing.

The issue of his fullback play is more related to how he handles kick returns and counter attacks. Izzy rarely returns a kick with interest, we’ve all seen him kick but they aren’t great, he runs a kick back 80% of the time. In the game of kicking for field position, Wallabies lose every time.

His passing isn’t great either, on a kick return if his supporting wingers are more then 15m away he will just run the ball himself. He has been caught a few time this year behind his support because he ran when he should have kicked or looked for support.

 

[Quick Hands]

Let's not forget that Folau has scored 11 tries in 8 games this season breaking the all time Wallabies record and still has 5 tests to play.

For the things he does wrong, he does a huge amount right.

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That's true. What's also true is that we seem to have far too many incomplete footballers in the team. It's a major structural deficiency which limits the ability of the team quite significantly. All these little errors caused by skill deficiencies serve to let the pressure off the opposition at regular intervals.

 

[Quick Hands]

From memory all those have been on the end of a backline move, not from counter attacking off a kick return.. realistically he could have scored most of those tries if not more by playing wing.

The issue of his fullback play is more related to how he handles kick returns and counter attacks. Izzy rarely returns a kick with interest, we’ve all seen him kick but they aren’t great, he runs a kick back 80% of the time. In the game of kicking for field position, Wallabies lose every time.

His passing isn’t great either, on a kick return if his supporting wingers are more then 15m away he will just run the ball himself. He has been caught a few time this year behind his support because he ran when he should have kicked or looked for support.

Good analysis. What gets me is that he's been playing test rugby and super rugby for quite a few years now and it staggers me that in a country where AFL is the major winter sport that we can't get someone somewhere to at least fix the technical aspects of punt kicking an oval shaped ball.

Some of the decision making stuff is more difficult to coach, but I'd have thought that full-time professional athletes would have access to appropriate technical coaching in the core skills of the game and in particular the core skills of their position. FFS a fullback and a 5/8 who struggle to punt kick a rugby ball. Give me strength.

 

[KAOPointman]

You worry me.
There’s no alternative to Foley: he deserves criticism, but nether McGregor not Mason is anywhere near test rugby. Stewart is at least a lap ahead of them.
Then you give Folau a point? FFS.
Do your error analysis on him and start with the Coetzee kick he let bounce and then grounded in the in goal for a 22 which ultimately led to a try.
No other 15 at this level would have so little confidence (justified) in his kick at altitude (!) to deal with the situation in that manner.
His attacking angles are fucked. He needs to start his running in the backline 2m wider, run straight and then try to beat his man on the outside instead of going from running across field to running more across field.
If anyone’s a protected species ts Folau.

OK....so leTs get Stewart involved then....."anybody" extra to develope depth. There's a handful of guys playing pretty decent rugby atm.....and zero depth at any time this year has been covered for the 10 spot! Let that point sink in for a second before you miss the point AGAIN!

And your really comparing Foley to Folou.......there are two massive reasons why that argument fails completely....
1. We have plenty of cover at FB if his form or injuries prevail
2. Folou is a super talented athlete with the ability to win games single handedly, scoring LOTS of tries, breaking tackles and making more meters than anyone else. He's a player like Mckensie or Barret.....makes mistakes but demands their spot because the upside is waaaay to good. Folou certainly doesn't fall off 5 tackles, kick the ball out on the full 3 times and get lost in the defensive line multiple times!

And I did give Foley the respect of a full game min by min FAIR pros and cons evaluation along with my opinion...not just your one incident condemnation that you've based yours off!

 

[Slim 293]

So yeah, I thought Foley had a good game...........

Our backs really aren't the problem - there could be improvements (kicking in general play), but I think we have a pretty good pool of players there, some of whom putting in some really good performances of late.

We still have issues at 4 and 6......... Arnold shouldn't have been dropped (his form was much better than the alternatives), and our options at 6 are limited for now.

 

[wamberal]

They are pretty different balls, that is the only reason I can think of that our players mostly cannot kick the bloody thing, whereas AFL players can kick theirs a mile, and straight as a die.


Plus, of course, their kids start kicking as soon as they can crawl.


But surely, surely, our best backs can learn to kick. Surely?


The only rational explanation is the Chubby is a Randwick boy, through and through, and Randwick boys do not kick, and do not believe in kicking.

 

[Sully]

OK..so leTs get Stewart involved then..."anybody" extra to develope depth. There's a handful of guys playing pretty decent rugby atm...and zero depth at any time this year has been covered for the 10 spot! Let that point sink in for a second before you miss the point AGAIN!

Folou certainly doesn't fall off 5 tackles, kick the ball out on the full 3 times and get lost in the defensive line multiple times!

And I did give Foley the respect of a full game min by min FAIR pros and cons evaluation along with my opinion.not just your one incident condemnation that you've based yours off!

So yeah, I thought Foley had a good game.....

Our backs really aren't the problem - there could be improvements (kicking in general play), but I think we have a pretty good pool of players there, some of whom putting in some really good performances of late.

We still have issues at 4 and 6... Arnold shouldn't have been dropped (his form was much better than the alternatives), and our options at 6 are limited for now.

So you've both had a go at your favourite subjects. Time to move on.

Rule 10 10. If another poster does not understand or agree with your point after 3 or 4 attempts, LET IT GO, WALK AWAY.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Agreed that our backs aren't the poblem. Front row seems to be in good shape (inc. reserves), and you'd think that our locks are straightforward (Coleman, Arnold, Carter, Simmons, Rodda, Douglas, in that order), but this year Cheika has only once picked the same lock partnership as the previous week. Dempsey showed more promise than Hanigan, and we should give him a couple of games to show we he can do. Hooper and McMahon both work, but there isn't much depth until Pocock returns.

 

[barbarian]

Let's change the subject.

Thoughts on Dempsey? He didn't really stand out to me, but he didn't do a lot wrong either. Has a bit more physical presence about him, and gets over the ball more than Hanigan did.

I'll reserve judgement until we see him again. But he showed enough in his first start to earn another crack.