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Strapping

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Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
I have dodgy knees so I always strapped them up, for all the good it did, with normal rigid strapping tape. Usually in the first few minutes of the game the strapping tape would tear and from then on became extra weight and wind resistance really. ;)

I've decided to don the boots this season after (I'm guessing) 5 or so years in the wilderness. Strapping my knees will again be necessary but I've seen the new tapes available on the market and was wondering if anyone on here could offer any advice (educated or otherwise) on whether the semi-rigid tapes would work on knees.

I think they call the stuff kinesiology tape (d3 tape, rock tape etc) and as far as I can tell it's used more for muscles, not joints, but I was thinking that it might work for what I want it to. That little bit of stretch could be enough to stop it ripping when my knee is fully flexed.

This is close to how I usually strap it, with the addition of an extra few bits of tape below the knee so it's the same as above the knee to anchor the vertical strapping down.

Thoughts??

knee-taping.jpg
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
My uneducated view is that if there was a scintilla of evidence,that wearing rock tape would give the knee structural support,every fourth grade winger in the land would have been using it for years.
I have seen rock tape used all over the body,but never as structural support for a knee.
So I reckon it's a no.
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
I've only ever tried a neoprene knee brace and it never stayed in the right spot. I was constantly pulling it back up. I don't think it was to big as any tighter and I doubt I would've been able to get it on. So I haven't considered them since.
Maybe I'll give them another go or see if there's something better on the market. Cheers for the tip.
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
My uneducated view is that if there was a scintilla of evidence,that wearing rock tape would give the knee structural support,every fourth grade winger in the land would have been using it for years.
I have seen rock tape used all over the body,but never as structural support for a knee.
So I reckon it's a no.
That was kind of my gut feeling but I had to ask anyway. Someone's got to have tried it but.
If no one can say for sure either way I'll probably buy a roll and see how it goes.
 

Brendan Hume

Charlie Fox (21)
Scoey, see a physio. As you mentioned, tape normally falls off and probably doesn't do much good anyway - you might be better off without it, or you could use a flexible tape for the psychological benefit. I've always tried to get off the tape as soon as possible after injury.

Good luck getting back into it!
 

Cat_A

Arch Winning (36)
Scoey - see a physio. Knees (playing at the recreational level) shouldn't need strapping 12 months after even ACL surgery, and strapping is notoriously ineffective for 'dodgy knees' for so many reasons:
  • In all my years, 'dodgy knees' has referred to a structural problem with the knee joint itself 1% of the time.
And strapping tape can really only help to support structural issues (with the exception of patellar tracking issues, but even then I hate strapping for games - do your rehab you lazy sod and stop expecting the strapper to get tape to stick when the strapping design is only really suitable for walking. They're awesome people, not magicians. Patellar taping is designed to retrain your quads - you do that in the 90% of your week that you aren't spending at rugby, NOT the 10% of time that you are there, so don't strap for games only - makes no sense). Yes, in 99% of cases the strapping you see has a placebo-to-mild effect at best.

Incidentally the strapping you have pictured is really generic, and in my experience ineffective for well, anything really, and restricts many movements unnecessarily. In the next post I'll discuss strapping itself in more detail though because I know it's a common question.

  • 'Dodgy knees' is very often an imbalance between quad and hamstring & glute strength, tight hip flexors, and/or tight quads etc. etc.
My point is, a physio who can see what the actual problem is can help you way more than whacking on some sticky tape. Don't believe the hype of different types of tape (although some tapes stick or tear better than others) and look at the actual problem instead.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
patella tracking issues

This is the only thing I've found that strapping tape assists with as far as knees are concerned.

When you look at the strapping tape people like TPN had on their knee/leg it seemed like you just shouldn't be playing at the amateur level if that is required!
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
Thanks Cat. I am booked in to see my Physio next week which was his idea prior to me playing Rugby again. My issue is with my meniscus and that I seem to have a habit of tearing it/them. The strapping has always been something that I have done of my own accord and not on his advice; as you say probably more for the placebo than anything else. I guess I've always figured that it can't hurt? But I appreciate the frank advice. I would actually much prefer to not play with the strapping if I can.

In your experience, is there something that I may be doing that would cause me to be more prone to a meniscus tear than the average recreational player? I generally do what my physio says in terms of rehab etc but admit to being lazy with it at times. If there's something specific I can get him to have a look at I'd like to be able to ask. ie running technique, the imbalance in muscle group strengths you suggested etc
 

Cat_A

Arch Winning (36)
Now for all those 'tape falling off' problems that EVERYONE has - not just Scoey.

The tape most people are familiar with (the brown, sometimes white 38mm non-stretchy strapping tape) is called rigid tape. Its designed to restrict or guide movement, therefore supporting ligaments that may have been damaged. It isn't designed to replace ligaments, which is why, if you pay attention to strapping on players on tv, the tape is continuing to extend further on either side of the joint - knee strapping often starts mid calf and ends where lineout tape does, and shoulder strapping wraps around the body, extends down to the middle of the back, and reaches almost the elbow - and this is for two reasons.
  1. More skin for the tape to stick to; and more importantly
  2. Lever lengths - force applied further away from the fulcrum and all that. The tape is designed to apply as much force as practical to stop a movement ONLY at the extreme of the motion. All other movements should be possible. Asking someone to strap your knee so it doesn't move is SO 80s :cool:
But I digress. For adhesion purposes, rigid tape by itself on shoulders, knees and elbows falls off everyone, regardless of how 'good' the strapper is, because the adhesive isn't strong enough to withstand a 20min+ warm-up (+ sweat), and a 70-80min game (+ sweat) and constant stretching and pulling. You need preparation and layers.

Layer 1: spray adhesive on SHAVED skin. You can get tape adhesives. Elastoplast has one, but I quite like Tuff Skin, but if you're wanting a cheap one, Ball Grip (one that smells like metho) will get you through. All adhesives dry out that little layer of oil that sits on your skin which stops tape from sticking, but they make the skin sticky when they dry too.

For the big boys (Premier grade and the reserve grade players who will be backing up) we use the Ball Grip spray, wait for it to dry, then use the Tuff Skin, wait for it to dry, then start strapping. Some players need the 2 layers even for ankles so the tape doesn't slide on their ankles.

And yes, shave. Not because it'll make tape removal less painful (I really don't care how much that hurts because it isn't hurting me) but tape should stick to skin, not hair, and if it sticks to hair it'll move more on the skin and the taping job will be less effective. And that does affect me because if you complain about that, people will think it's my fault :(

Layer 2: Rigid tape thoughtfully applied. I say thoughtfully because if someone comes up and asks for their shoulder to be strapped, it can be because of a subluxation/dislocation (which direction), they could be a lineout jumper (which affects how far down across the front of the shoulder I bring the tape - lower = more stable, but more stable = can't lift your arms above your head), they could have something else going on too, or they could want me to strap their shoulder so it doesn't hurt to tackle (stiff shit - tackling hurts, sticky tape won't help)

The point being that even though there are generic ways of strapping joints, unless they are suitable for the injury you have/ don't want to have they won't work.

Layer 3: Stretchy tape over the top - called 'overwrap'. It compresses the joint which provides additional proprioception, keeps the rigid on, supports the joint even when the tape tears (and tape on knee strapping ALWAYS tears) and generally is the only thing that makes tape last the whole game. On knees and shoulders in particular, it's essential, and even with all the preparation in the world, is still the only way players can leave the field with any strapping tape intact at the end of one game (players backing up for another game can require re-strapping or reinforcement).

Yes it's costly, but it means that you don't need to run over midway through the game and get re-strapped on sweaty skin (doesn't stick so I don't even bother - sorry) and waste half-to-a-full roll of tape every week.
 

Cat_A

Arch Winning (36)
In your experience, is there something that I may be doing that would cause me to be more prone to a meniscus tear than the average recreational player? I generally do what my physio says in terms of rehab etc but admit to being lazy with it at times. If there's something specific I can get him to have a look at I'd like to be able to ask. ie running technique, the imbalance in muscle group strengths you suggested etc

I love physios (and I really love my physio!) but what I see the most is that players get 'physio fit' - pain free during daily life and some games - but don't get fit for colliding with 100kg blokes week after week. I can't stress enough the importance of a balanced gym program lifting heavy weights (heavy is relative to you). My physio is the club physio (specialist sports physio who also works with AFL) and she constantly tells players that physio isn't enough to play a sport where you are running into other people. Gym is essential!

I'm going to assume that your medial meniscus is the problem, because the vast majority are. If it's lateral meniscus, let me know. Your physio will be looking for structural problems first - medial ligament laxity is a classic - and if you have that you will almost certainly have a weak VMO combined with a tight and overworked vastus lateralis (the outside quad muscle). Going a step further (and please understand this is not intended as a diagnosis by rugby forum having never met you, it is ONLY what I have seen most commonly over - now - 16 years) you probably have poorly functioning glut medius which cocks your gait up, even when walking. If I'm right you'll also experience pain when walking down stairs more often than you'd like. Anyhoo.

If it's medial meniscus and I'm right (or mostly so) the awesome news is that it's one of the few problems that respond well to strapping in tandem with rehab. The bad news is that the strapping in your picture won't work. If you're Brisbane-based, though, DM me.
 

Cat_A

Arch Winning (36)
This is the only thing I've found that strapping tape assists with as far as knees are concerned.

When you look at the strapping tape people like TPN had on their knee/leg it seemed like you just shouldn't be playing at the amateur level if that is required!

Yes. Yes. A thousand times yes.

And often it's players getting strapped for an injury they don't have, complaining that the strapping doesn't do what they wanted it to do, and insisting that the problem is not enough strapping.
No, the problem is that you've never found out what your injury is, or you haven't communicated the injury you want strapped to your strapper, you think strapping can heal an injury, even one you've been carrying for months or years, and you look at me like I'm the idiot when the first question I ask you when you want your shoulder strapped is "what do you want the strapping to do?".

No no Tiger, it's not a dumb question.
 

Cat_A

Arch Winning (36)
Scoey - the injury 'diagnosis' is actually what predisposes you to redoing the medial meniscus over and over. The impact of the initial injury, left unaddressed, over time lead to all of those problems. Then all of those problems both put your knee joint into a position, and also make your muscles activate in patterns that predispose you to the same. God. Damned. Injury.
 
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