Sydney Colts 2012

Tahboy, I have had extensive conversations with Brogan and his mum and I think they are fully aware of the details of the Uni system. As to why "clubs hate what Uni do" I don't think you can focus on just one thing: the list of reasons appears endless.

Hi Bruce I know the reasons why Brogan went to Uni and didn't join his local club and I understand his reasons and I have no problems and I don't think we need to go through the Uni debate again
I would just hate to see a player of Brogans ability sit out a season in 2nd colts.

Has this kid played Colts before or just schoolboys?

Folks be prepared for the friends of Brogan to flood this thread.

Chris Ingate was picked ahead of Roods in GPS, NSW and Aus Schoolboys and he will be picked ahead of him in Colts 2012.

I'm not totally up to speed here, so please don't think I'm trying to be smart, but which is his "local" club. I remember watching Brogan play for Sydney Uni in the under 16's, I think it was - maybe 15's, State Knock out a few years ago - kind of suggests his club is, and has been, Uni. I've had a lot of vision of his age group over the years, in terms of the club scene, and don't remember him playing for a local club othe than that appearance for Uni.

Not sure exactly his local junior club it might have been South coogee and played Randwick Juniors
Brogan has had some injury issues which have held him back but anyone who has seen him play knows he is a talent and I believe the next Rob Horne
With the setbacks he had and too still make it too Aust schools is a great achievement
I witnessed an argument between Randwick officials at the Knox trials when a NSW schools selector said he didn't think Brogan deserved a shot at NSW schools as he hadn't played enough rugby. I just hope he plays 1st grade colts

I'm with Bruce in selecting players on trials rather than their rep. If Brogan is as good as you say Tahboy, then he will shine through. If their is a better player than him in the position. then he'll have to bite his time in 2nds.

I'm going to do some rambling due to the comment above about "Thats why people hate Uni" I thought I would try and justify why Colts leave their junior clubs to sign with Uni and I might be stating the obvious..but anyway this is what I always hear, it comes down to 2 things:

1) The education opportunites. Yes, we have all heard that Uni provides education "opportunities" for their shining star players. and uni admittance is at an all time high in Australia. so that will always be a good carrot.. but why can't other clubs affiliate with other University's to provide a similar opportunity? They can.. and some do (e.g. - Randwick with UNSW) but not to the extent of Uni.. at the moment. If clubs took some time to invest in relationships with close universitys (if there is one..i know some don't have one) then I believe we would see more players stick for longer with a club. i mean most degrees take around 4 years right?

2) Their Reputation. Uni is known by all players as being the most successful in recent years, I mean look at their record in colts. amazing. and as we know and have seen with the Reds, everyone likes a band wagon.. they have almost 30000 members now. pretty crazy for a team who almost paid people to watch them 3 years ago. Most players would take the opportunity to play for a successful institution in the 2nds or 3rds.. if it means they are winning. Obviously their competitive side comes into play as well and it is as much of a competition for a spot in 1sts (and even more in recent years) than playing against other clubs. But people like to be part of a winning side, it is very attractive. and when you know you are going to train with the best each week. bam.. who wouldn't want to.

I know what some people will say, that it is killing the competition and players should have more loyalty to their local clubs. But lets be real here. most kids will look at the opportunity that Uni provide, see all the super rugby players that are with the club and think "Where is my best chance to make it professionly?". they won't pass an opportunity to go to uni. It is a selfish view and I applaud the ones who choose otherwise. but the grimm reality is that most colts have ambitions of making a living from rugby, so they want to give themselves the best chance at that. It is ridiculous how many Syd Uni players are in the Rebel and Waratah teams. and kids aren't silly, they see it too.

You find that the ones who choose Uni for the reason to progress and don't. normally leave Uni within 2-3 years and go back to their home teams. But it is hard for a youngster to decline an opportunity to be part of such a successful institution.

Yes, it is hurting other clubs, but instead of just hating on Uni, we have to find ways to catch up and I think the key is in Uni Scholarships as an incentive, rather than monitory incentives (if that occurs), if clubs start that. it just becomes an expectation of players.. which impacts on team moral and everything. If they provide assistence with education then the players will stick by them for at least their degree length and then you have to back your Club environment to make them want to be loyal to you.

Just my thoughts..

Heard it all before and once again you like those who have come before have completely missed the point.

Totally agree lily, to say that clubs should align themselves with a Uni and get them to give free Uni spots and accomodation on campus is ridiculous as they won't do it
What is in it for UNSW or Wollongong Uni or Macquarie Uni to give free Uni courses to rugby players? Randwick has access to 2 scholarships and they are restricted to very limited courses and 1 course needs a very, very high mark and UNSW do not let rugby players get into the course if they are close enough in marks like Uni do even taking into consideration the 5 marks they can get for elite sportsman at school.
Players go to Uni not because they want too but because they get an offer too good to refuse. For every S15 career made through Uni there is one destroyed
This has been all said before and Unfortunatly no matter how many time the Uni supporters Trot out the company line there are just too many rugby people who have horror stories about Uni. It makes sense that if you are living and studying at Sydney Uni of course you would play there plus they have all the government funded gyms on campus.
I have been involved with Colts rugby since 1996 and I have seen and heard too much of how Uni operate to have any respect for them as a rugby club and is why they are known as Sydney Uni rugby institution
Who ever gets beaten by Uni in the colts GF in my view is the best Colts rugby team for that year as they play on basicslly the same level playing field as the other 11 teams. I think this Uni stuff has been done to death and the 100s of Uni supporters will never convince the 1000s of rugby supporters to change there mind that Uni are on the same playing field as every other club they just do it better than every other club.

Umm, Uni were very lucky to beat Randwick in the semis last year.

My discussions across the clubs were that they enjoyed the challenge of playing uni. However, the issue that really irked people was uni's parachuting of grade players into the Colts for the final series. In the above Randwick v. Uni semi, the Randwick supporters were extremely annoyed that the very talented English (Tom), who played all but 4 games in 1st and 2nd Grade all season, scored 2 tries. I know that some uni supporters also look dimly on this practice.

I'm not saying it is illegal and I am not saying other clubs don't do it. I am just saying that anecdotally this is what people see unis biggest unfair advantage.

Tahboy, I made the mistake of responding to you regarding Brogan Roods because I thought it was a genuine inquiry, but I see you are in the business of spreading lies and deliberate misinformation about how the Sydney Uni system works. You also traduce the University itself:

"free Uni spots"
"let rugby players get into the course if they are close enough in marks like Uni"
"all the government funded gyms on campus"

Lies! I challenge you to prove otherwise.

Bruce I am over the Uni debate and I only responded because Lilly saying clubs should mirror what Uni are doing and I responded that it cannot be done
If what I am saying about free courses is wrong then you prove me wrong
How did Uni get Berrick Barnes? He admitted Uni are helping him do his uni course and he is paying the cost?? Come on Bruce don't treat rugby people as gooses
John McEnroe used to get howled down when he blew up about line calls but as he once said was he always wrong so are all the people who complain about Uni and all say about free uni courses and free accomodation wrong and you are right?
I also speak to players and player managers
This is the end of this subject for me there are more enjoyable aspects of rugby to discuss

Tahboy I know you don't want to keep going on about the scholarship program at Uni and either do I however you really do need to know that what you percieve to be true is in fact not. If berrick barnes was to take a lie detector test he would be telling the truth you see the individual pays his own fees and the university gives support with things like tutoring, time extensions, etc. And as for them allowing one to do a particular course without the marks well it just doesn't happen. The football club is separate to the university there are so many different boards within and they would never allow the football club to dictate. Let's not forget also Tahboy not all boys that play for Uni go to Uni and that may be because they don't have the marks to enable them to. Don't be too hard on Bruce as he is not treating everyone like a goose. Actually the ones that benefit the most monetary wise at the Uni are that ones that get high ATAR marks.

I have been told that SRU is looking to introduce a points cap for Colts 3 to stop Uni from playing rep players in this grade. The cap will start at 30 points.
I don't see the value in this because the current points system hasn't stopped Uni, why would this work. If you want a 5 point deduction just sign a stat dec saying your father played at the club. Good luck finding the records from the 80s that prove the bloke didn't play at the club.
I say a colts club is allowed 2 oz schoolboys and 5 div 1 state reps to be registered before the season starts. That's 24 oz and 60 state reps in the sydney colts comp.

Even if a thread was created called 'the facts about line outs' it would still end up leading to Sydney University's flaws. This is a Colts 2012 thread, why doesn't every rugby 'tragic' on here stick to player movements, upcoming trials, potential top 4; rather than consistently bitching about Uni and the unfair nature of which they THINK they conduct in the competition.

It is my uneducated opinion that Uni doesn't have anything that 5 years of hard work from any other club couldn't match.

The sooner clubs start this estimated 5 years of bloody hard toil the sooner they'll get there.

My brother played a pretty high level of rugby at school and was approached by Sydney Uni- they offered him positions at College at a discount(St Andrews in this example) that his UAI would not allow him to get into otherwise. The COlts Coaching Director also said that he would receive academic exemptions and help for exams etc that he would not receive otherwise if he were to play for another club. Sorry Bruce but this is 100% fact and not exactly a level playing field that other clubs can ever match

People, once again this has turned into a Sydney Uni discussion, if your interested in keeping that topic going can you create a new thread e.g. "Sydney Uni the great debate"?

Otherwise can we discuss Sydney Colts 2012 - who's coming into Colts, who's staying and who is leaving for grade or Subbies.

En forcer please elaborate what clubs have to do in 5 years of hard to catch up to Uni?
I have heard Norths have signed Max Jones who plays prop and I think played NSW 2 schools last year