Tahs Vs Bulls
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Andrew Slack (58)
Bulls ? 15 Zane Kirchner; 14 Akona Ndungane, 13 Jaco Pretorius, 12 Wynand Olivier, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Morn? Steyn, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Danie Rossouw, 6 Dewald Potgieter, 5 Victor Matfield (c), 4 Bakkies Botha, 3 Werner Kruger, 2 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 1 Gurthr? Steenkamp.
Subs: 16 Jaco Engels, 17 Rayno Gerber, 18 Pedrie Wannenburg, 19 Derick Ku?n, 20 Heini Adams, 21 Burton Francis, 22 JP Nel.
Not two props on bench. Kruger rotated into 3 - still a rookie so I really don't get the logic.
The big problem is the lack of an openside. Potgieter has been tried as a makeshift openside due to Stegmann's suspension. He has failed for two weeks in a row so they reckon it will be good to see him fail a third. :nta:
The Bulls pack were shite last week and I think they will be a lot more focused this week. It's at the breakdown where the Tahs can win this match...
Subs: 16 Jaco Engels, 17 Rayno Gerber, 18 Pedrie Wannenburg, 19 Derick Ku?n, 20 Heini Adams, 21 Burton Francis, 22 JP Nel.
Not two props on bench. Kruger rotated into 3 - still a rookie so I really don't get the logic.
The big problem is the lack of an openside. Potgieter has been tried as a makeshift openside due to Stegmann's suspension. He has failed for two weeks in a row so they reckon it will be good to see him fail a third. :nta:
The Bulls pack were shite last week and I think they will be a lot more focused this week. It's at the breakdown where the Tahs can win this match...
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Ag well those Boms wont be that bad against the Brutes. First Phase is against them, lineouts and scrums. Then the break downs like Blue state, thats where they hurt at the moment. Defensivewise I thought they were great untill the Landers game, there they lost the plot totally.NTA said:
P
PhucNgo
Guest
PaarlBok said:
PB, the Highlanders were the first forward pack to really take it to the Bulls which probably introduced a different dynamic into the game, one they weren't prepared for. Highlanders also had a gamebreaker in Israel Dagg, whose gotta come close to being the standout rookie of the year.
Both the Bulls and Tahs have lived off first phase this year, with the Tahs occasionally turning up at the breakdown. Tahs front row seem to have an edge, so I think this will tend to nullify the Bulls in this area. Lineouts, well Mattfield will have another week under his belt and the Tahs have shown recently that they can be up and down in this area; Bulls on top here. I think the real key will be at 10. Hangers came back to the pack last week (as expected) and will be targetted mercilessly by the Bullyboys this week. Hangers also confirmed last week that his kicking against the Blues was a fluke (also as expected).
The Tahs may regret not taking a kicker into the game and I expect that Steyn will therefore have a big bearing on the outcome. I'm not sure of his %'s, but he seems to be kicking 'em real sweet at the moment.
R
Red Beard
Guest
Bulls scrum is no longer the weapon it has been in the past. Hooker and tighthead not the dominant scrummagers that their predecessors were. I think the Tahs have a better drilled scrum than the Bulls.PhucNgo said:
Live score on front page http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/tahs-vs-bulls-live-score/
Just. A. Complete. Load. Of. RUBBISH!!!!!!!
Can anyone in the Tahs catch? This is a rhetorical question.
More to the point, at what stage does someone on the field realise that they are crap at kicking and should stop?
And as a side issue (not that it altered the outcome at all) how many infringements at breakdown can a team be pinged for without the ref pulling a card out? I don't care how many the Tahs may have committed that went unpunished, if the ref is going to keep blowing penalties against 1 team, surely the next step had to be considered?
Oh, and Jonathon, you need to review the laws on forward passes methinks - at least 2 (he called on the Bulls went a yard backwards :nta
Well done Bulls - simple stuff but effective.
Tahs - 0/10. OK 1/10 - the scrum went well.
Can anyone in the Tahs catch? This is a rhetorical question.
More to the point, at what stage does someone on the field realise that they are crap at kicking and should stop?
And as a side issue (not that it altered the outcome at all) how many infringements at breakdown can a team be pinged for without the ref pulling a card out? I don't care how many the Tahs may have committed that went unpunished, if the ref is going to keep blowing penalties against 1 team, surely the next step had to be considered?
Oh, and Jonathon, you need to review the laws on forward passes methinks - at least 2 (he called on the Bulls went a yard backwards :nta
Well done Bulls - simple stuff but effective.
Tahs - 0/10. OK 1/10 - the scrum went well.
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
cyclopath said:Just. A. Complete. Load. Of. RUBBISH!!!!!!!
Can anyone in the Tahs catch? This is a rhetorical question.
More to the point, at what stage does someone on the field realise that they are crap at kicking and should stop?
And as a side issue (not that it altered the outcome at all) how many infringements at breakdown can a team be pinged for without the ref pulling a card out? I don't care how many the Tahs may have committed that went unpunished, if the ref is going to keep blowing penalties against 1 team, surely the next step had to be considered?
Oh, and Jonathon, you need to review the laws on forward passes methinks - at least 2 (he called on the Bulls went a yard backwards :nta
Well done Bulls - simple stuff but effective.
Tahs - 0/10. OK 1/10 - the scrum went well.
Kaplan was woeful and makes Goddard look in control with that performance. There was a shot of him after he blew Robinson for the "dangerous" tackle on Kirchner. He just knew that he had fucked that one up.
However, he cannot be blamed for the Tahs not being able to think on their feet. The Bulls came in with a set plan and like against the Canes executed it well. Not pretty, but never meant to be. Steyn's kicking was very good and the Bulls kickers all executed the up and under very well. The chasing was excellent.
If Tahs fans were excited about Robinson two years ago they now need to get even more excited about Palmer. Add some muscle, good coaching, and this boy could be a gem.
100% agree Blue. Kaplan did not cost the Tahs the game - they managed that all on their own.
A few of his "curious" moments included that call on Robinson, the "forward passes" that actually went back, and then when Palmer asked for some clarification during a break in play about some scrum penalties (OK, he's not the captain but seemed to be asking quite courteously) and Kaplan said he had forgotten.
Waugh looked like he wanted to deck him at one point - that look alone was priceless.
Palmer and Robinson have really stood up. Those 2 with TPN are forming a pretty darn good front row unit.
The Tahs kicking plan was again found to be totally wanting. Kicks were usually too deep, poorly or not chased, or just badly directed. And yet they kept doing it, even when 2 tries were needed and ball in hand was called for.
On the few occasions it went to some width, invariably the last pass (that might have actually unlocked a player) was never thrown, and more importantly the players did not seem to be looking to throw it. By all means respect the ball, and move it wide when there is opportunity, by don't stop half way and die with it.
As for the kick at goal in the last 10 when 14 behind - P Waugh, WTF?????
Tahs will finish 5-7 on the table on that performance and rightly so.
A few of his "curious" moments included that call on Robinson, the "forward passes" that actually went back, and then when Palmer asked for some clarification during a break in play about some scrum penalties (OK, he's not the captain but seemed to be asking quite courteously) and Kaplan said he had forgotten.
Waugh looked like he wanted to deck him at one point - that look alone was priceless.
Palmer and Robinson have really stood up. Those 2 with TPN are forming a pretty darn good front row unit.
The Tahs kicking plan was again found to be totally wanting. Kicks were usually too deep, poorly or not chased, or just badly directed. And yet they kept doing it, even when 2 tries were needed and ball in hand was called for.
On the few occasions it went to some width, invariably the last pass (that might have actually unlocked a player) was never thrown, and more importantly the players did not seem to be looking to throw it. By all means respect the ball, and move it wide when there is opportunity, by don't stop half way and die with it.
As for the kick at goal in the last 10 when 14 behind - P Waugh, WTF?????
Tahs will finish 5-7 on the table on that performance and rightly so.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Did not think Kaplan was that bad. Thought the Tahs had a real shocker and the Brutes look much, much , much hunger for a win here. Cant even think of once that the Tahs even came close. Thought Potgieter & Kuhn were good today and Habana looks good. He missed a few oppertunities by a inch but he took that one that came his way. Their scrum need to be fix but lineouts was tip top.
If I look at my calculations the Brutes can still lose 2 and in the semi from here. Dont think that will happen and you may see 2 SA teams in the semis in 2009.
The Tahs have a hard road from here and it just may help their play if they clean ball quicker from second phase. They are pretty stupid holding it back there. Beale a must in 10 for them.
This win is as good as a 8 pointer for the Brutes.
If I look at my calculations the Brutes can still lose 2 and in the semi from here. Dont think that will happen and you may see 2 SA teams in the semis in 2009.
The Tahs have a hard road from here and it just may help their play if they clean ball quicker from second phase. They are pretty stupid holding it back there. Beale a must in 10 for them.
This win is as good as a 8 pointer for the Brutes.
P
PhucNgo
Guest
Well, its goodnight from him and its goodnight from him. End of the road for the Tahs.
Dr Cyclot"ronnnies", I beg to differ once again. That wasn't rubbish, that was complete and utter BOLLOCKS.
As a game of rugby it was a good demonstration plate tectonics. Two resolute masses just mindlessly grinding away at each other. Were the pyramids built by aliens, did Jesus Christ live out his latter days in a backwater in France, did the Tahs have a game plan? These are the big questions of our time.
Seriously, the Waratahs of 2009 lack any form of creative leadership, both onfield and off. Whether this is a product of the "win at all costs" siege mentality caused by political infighting in the board room, or just plain dumb-assed coaching is difficult to know. Either way its equally difficult to see too many punters turning out in 2010 to fork out their hard-earned to see this sought of drivel-rugby.
The vacuum in creative onfield leadership is best exemplified by comparing the styles of the two old nemeses George Smith and Phil Waugh. Smith is the thinking man's consumate professional rugby player. If he can't go thru he'll go around. If he can't go around, he'll create an opportunity for someone else to go around, etc. etc. Phil Waugh, for all his positive attributes, is the Pythonesque Black Knight. If he can't go thru, he'll try to go thru again, and again, and again: "Go on, have another go, its only a flesh wound."
It doesn't stop here tho. The Tahs need to fill two key roles, the number 10 and attack coach. Hangers, well 'nuff said. Beale is clearly not the answer. In his cameo this evening he again showed that he is not S14 standard. Clueless in attack and and absolute rubbish in defence. Clueless attack being this year's theme, apparently, enter Scott Wisemantel. Obviously, Scott's record included something that merited his appointed. Unfortunately, that something hasn't appeared onfield. (Or maybe I just missed it.) Is it him, or is it the cattle he has to work with? Well not having a competent 10 is a disadvantage, but its more widespread than that. The backs appear to have no cohesion and are lacking in basic drills, skills and patterns. Based on all round performance, you'd have to give this guy a C-.
As far as I can see the only positive the Tahs can take out of '09 is Michael Foley. He's taken what was supposed to be a severely depleted forward pack and created a more than competent first phase unit. But, after 9 (whatever) rounds Hickey has still got a bunch of guys numbered 1-15 who can't catch, can't pass and look as tho they met for the first time on the bus going to the game. Some occasional glimpses of individual ability, but a team, NO.
Rant over.
Dr Cyclot"ronnnies", I beg to differ once again. That wasn't rubbish, that was complete and utter BOLLOCKS.
As a game of rugby it was a good demonstration plate tectonics. Two resolute masses just mindlessly grinding away at each other. Were the pyramids built by aliens, did Jesus Christ live out his latter days in a backwater in France, did the Tahs have a game plan? These are the big questions of our time.
Seriously, the Waratahs of 2009 lack any form of creative leadership, both onfield and off. Whether this is a product of the "win at all costs" siege mentality caused by political infighting in the board room, or just plain dumb-assed coaching is difficult to know. Either way its equally difficult to see too many punters turning out in 2010 to fork out their hard-earned to see this sought of drivel-rugby.
The vacuum in creative onfield leadership is best exemplified by comparing the styles of the two old nemeses George Smith and Phil Waugh. Smith is the thinking man's consumate professional rugby player. If he can't go thru he'll go around. If he can't go around, he'll create an opportunity for someone else to go around, etc. etc. Phil Waugh, for all his positive attributes, is the Pythonesque Black Knight. If he can't go thru, he'll try to go thru again, and again, and again: "Go on, have another go, its only a flesh wound."
It doesn't stop here tho. The Tahs need to fill two key roles, the number 10 and attack coach. Hangers, well 'nuff said. Beale is clearly not the answer. In his cameo this evening he again showed that he is not S14 standard. Clueless in attack and and absolute rubbish in defence. Clueless attack being this year's theme, apparently, enter Scott Wisemantel. Obviously, Scott's record included something that merited his appointed. Unfortunately, that something hasn't appeared onfield. (Or maybe I just missed it.) Is it him, or is it the cattle he has to work with? Well not having a competent 10 is a disadvantage, but its more widespread than that. The backs appear to have no cohesion and are lacking in basic drills, skills and patterns. Based on all round performance, you'd have to give this guy a C-.
As far as I can see the only positive the Tahs can take out of '09 is Michael Foley. He's taken what was supposed to be a severely depleted forward pack and created a more than competent first phase unit. But, after 9 (whatever) rounds Hickey has still got a bunch of guys numbered 1-15 who can't catch, can't pass and look as tho they met for the first time on the bus going to the game. Some occasional glimpses of individual ability, but a team, NO.
Rant over.
Tahs got out-ruglied by the Brutes, simple as.
It's been asked before, but what the fuck are they doing in training? If it's practising 10-man rugly then they're doing a shit job at even that.
When I saw gahu attempt a bomb from inside his own 22, that took the biscuit. He may as well held up a sign saying "we don't know what we're doing".
It's been asked before, but what the fuck are they doing in training? If it's practising 10-man rugly then they're doing a shit job at even that.
When I saw gahu attempt a bomb from inside his own 22, that took the biscuit. He may as well held up a sign saying "we don't know what we're doing".
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
SNK to fly-half to try to save the season. He might throw a couple of intercepts, but he'll get Tahu and Horne interested in the game of rugby again.
10. SNK
11. LT
12. Horne
13. Carter
14. Tahu
15. Turner
Use the skip pass from 12 to 14 when possible, or perhaps Carter can be trained into letting go of the ball, even if it is just a simple inside ball to Turner on the angle. Hmmm ... maybe not.
Gahu can cover 10. 12. 15.
10. SNK
11. LT
12. Horne
13. Carter
14. Tahu
15. Turner
Use the skip pass from 12 to 14 when possible, or perhaps Carter can be trained into letting go of the ball, even if it is just a simple inside ball to Turner on the angle. Hmmm ... maybe not.
Gahu can cover 10. 12. 15.
R
rugbywhisperer
Guest
I think I have to start agreeing with Kafe as he eunumerated on Thursday night - some of the the ELV's have to an extent created this bloody kicking mentality. The not taking the ball back into the 22 has given birth to a game of ping pong and all the league fans must be laughing in their boots as our game that up until a few years ago was a great running game has reverted to the trash we once endured 40 years ago.
Every one of the games featuring an Aussie side this weekend featured endless kicking and to some extent it resulted in the losses we had. Given the wet game in Canberra made for a territorial slant but even then I felt there was just too much kicking.
Now kicking isn't a bad thing but you have to be able to do it effectively and aside from Mark Gerrard and maybe Giteau there is no Aussie player capable of doing the same with effectiveness and control - all we do is hand the ball back for the opposition to say thanks pal and score.
The other teams must love us, no matter how much ball we win we just give it back - most times on a gilded platter.
What a boring bunch we have become.
Every one of the games featuring an Aussie side this weekend featured endless kicking and to some extent it resulted in the losses we had. Given the wet game in Canberra made for a territorial slant but even then I felt there was just too much kicking.
Now kicking isn't a bad thing but you have to be able to do it effectively and aside from Mark Gerrard and maybe Giteau there is no Aussie player capable of doing the same with effectiveness and control - all we do is hand the ball back for the opposition to say thanks pal and score.
The other teams must love us, no matter how much ball we win we just give it back - most times on a gilded platter.
What a boring bunch we have become.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
PhucNgo said:
If he can't do that, he'll chip or grubber kick the ball :
Gimme a break.Waugh is a very direct player but its not his job to find the holes and its only partly his job to contribute to a game plan. The coaching staff have to start answering some serious questions on why the fuck we don't even have a Plan A. I thought Hickey was supposed to be a genius? Surely then, even with the limited backline talent we've got at the Tahs he can find something to use?
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