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The Ashes

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DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
The use of the review system for a run out is entirely different. One of the hardest decisions for a umpire to make, and an area of the game that is now completely in agreement with almost all concerned. This does make a difference to a dismissal, whereas the no ball one is not likely to make any difference what-so-ever!

What!? Surely you jest. The rules are pretty clear on no balls. If a batsmen gets bowled out and the review shows it was a no ball, why should that be seen as unfair? It makes a huge difference.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Can you imagine what it's like coming in, day in day out to work in London with this arse-reaming going on?

Not good I tell thee

I've had to just shut up shop banter wise. I've got nothing
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
I feel your pain Gags. It's been pretty grim here too. Fortunately for me I've never really ripped into my English (and Welsh) mates when we've beaten them in the past and thus they have taken pity on me this time.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Sadly, I think that flatters us, how did we ever win one?
They bat better, bowl better & field better than us.
At the least the $$ is strong against the pound ATM, that's all we currently have over them.
Hate to say it but a well deserved series win.

We have been hopelessly outgunned in a manner that I haven't seen in over 20 years. Not since serial poundings from the great Windies team(s) of the 80's have we been so absolutely outplayed. Still, tomorrow's a new day and we'll be back at some point. There are enough good players in Shield ranks to suggest that we can start the slow climb upwards again.
 

Sandpit Fan

Nev Cottrell (35)
Mick,
We were supposed to play Bangladesh but I think that got pushed aside for the World Cup. So that rules out the return of Gillespie.....

I just hope that the older blokes in our team don't think they can keep going on because Kallis and Tendulkar are playing well at the moment and try and emulate their feats.....

And thank christ for that, otherwise we would be about even money to get the Van Humphries treatment from them as well...
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Just thinking about the batting order, I wonder if Mark Cosgrove might finally come in from the cold and get a shot at it. He's been in hot form this season since joining Tassie and is only 26. I know he's a fat unfit bastard, but jeez he can bat. He opened for Tas in their last Shield game and got 100 and 86no. Could be worth a punt...
 
H

Hodgy

Guest
What!? Surely you jest. The rules are pretty clear on no balls. If a batsmen gets bowled out and the review shows it was a no ball, why should that be seen as unfair? It makes a huge difference.
quite right, it staggers me that anyone is moaning about it, in fact its pathetic. Its in the laws for a reason, just don't bowl no balls.

Maybe the Aussies should practice not bowling no balls rather than whinging because one was spotted. Mitchell Johnson's admission that they often bowl no balls in the nets and its not policed is frankly pathetic in the professional era. No sympathy whatsoever and if the ump thinks its a noball and refers it, good on him, Billy was right after all.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Just thinking about the batting order, I wonder if Mark Cosgrove might finally come in from the cold and get a shot at it. He's been in hot form this season since joining Tassie and is only 26. I know he's a fat unfit bastard, but jeez he can bat. He opened for Tas in their last Shield game and got 100 and 86no. Could be worth a punt...

well for the first time in decades we need to start picking players when they are actually in form. As opposed to waiting for them to drop out of form, like Hughes, Hilfenhaus, etc.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
What Ashes series is everyone referring to? According to me there was no Ashes series for 2010/11.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
Its couldy but the rain has stopped. Perfect conditions for the Poms to wrap us up in the first half hour, giving them a full day to celebrate. Plenty of time for a full autosopy on the Aus test team. Right now the only guaranteed pick for future teams is Watson. hussey and haddin have peformed well but someone needs to think about their expected longevity in the game - every other position is up for grabs including selectors and coaches.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
quite right, it staggers me that anyone is moaning about it, in fact its pathetic. Its in the laws for a reason, just don't bowl no balls.

Maybe the Aussies should practice not bowling no balls rather than whinging because one was spotted. Mitchell Johnson's admission that they often bowl no balls in the nets and its not policed is frankly pathetic in the professional era. No sympathy whatsoever and if the ump thinks its a noball and refers it, good on him, Billy was right after all.

I am most definately not moaning about the fact that they were illegal dismissals, and therefore rightly both were not out. Clearly neither you, nor Konze can find the effort to actually address my concerns, which I can spell out again if you like:

1. IMO a bowler being over the line by a very small amount (the amount that umpires can't pick up without replays) does not affect the standard of the delivery, and therefore is extremely unlikely to affect whether a batsmen gets out or not.

2. Taking into account point 1. Why allow umpires use this technology for such a minor aspect, and therefore hold up the game even further than we already have. If they see a no ball at the time of the delivery, then call it, if they don't then don't call it. It isn't critical to hold up the game for this aspect.

3. Surely you both agree that finding out whether a batsmen has edged a ball (or not) or whether a ball pitches in line or not is much more critical than seeing if a bowler has gone over by 10mm? In this case, then why not allow umpires to also use the technology for these other cases? Of course the response will be that the DRS allows the batting or bowling teams to use technology to check these areas - well there is no reason that the batting team can't use the DRS to check for no balls as well - just have the non-striker look at the bowler's feet when he is delivering the ball.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
well for the first time in decades we need to start picking players when they are actually in form. As opposed to waiting for them to drop out of form, like Hughes, Hilfenhaus, etc.

We can't fall into the trap of chopping and changing a team every time one guy drops a bit of form and another gains a bit. Selection also has to take into account longevity and potential. This is how some of our greatest players came into the team - Warne, McGrath, Waugh. No one thought they were going to be any near as good as what they ended up being, but they were given a shot, partly on potential and allowed to build into their roles/games/skills.

A team for the future, with experience to get them there:

1. Hussey (is a natural opener, and young guys normally bat well with him)
2. Hughes
3. Khawaja
4. Clarke (gets a shot to show what he has as captain, and to get out of his form slump)
5. M. Marsh
6. Watson
7. Haddin
8. Johnson
9. Beer/O'Keefe
10. Harris
11. Copeland
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
What!? Surely you jest. The rules are pretty clear on no balls. If a batsmen gets bowled out and the review shows it was a no ball, why should that be seen as unfair? It makes a huge difference.


Where did I say 'unfair'?
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
I am most definately not moaning about the fact that they were illegal dismissals, and therefore rightly both were not out. Clearly neither you, nor Konze can find the effort to actually address my concerns, which I can spell out again if you like:

1. IMO a bowler being over the line by a very small amount (the amount that umpires can't pick up without replays) does not affect the standard of the delivery, and therefore is extremely unlikely to affect whether a batsmen gets out or not.

Yes, it does, because if you go over the line it is an illegal delivery. There's no getting away from it! You must have part of your foot behind the line. The day the stop checking for no balls is the day bowlers will say you beauty, let's see how far I can push this, how far past the line can I get away with.

It's like saying the batsmen shouldn't be out when the ball on JUST catches the edge of the bat, and the referral detects the tiniest of edges.


2. Taking into account point 1. Why allow umpires use this technology for such a minor aspect, and therefore hold up the game even further than we already have. If they see a no ball at the time of the delivery, then call it, if they don't then don't call it. It isn't critical to hold up the game for this aspect.

If you're going to refer decisions, be prepared to take up time as you check the legality of every aspect of the delivery and dismissal.

3. Surely you both agree that finding out whether a batsmen has edged a ball (or not) or whether a ball pitches in line or not is much more critical than seeing if a bowler has gone over by 10mm? In this case, then why not allow umpires to also use the technology for these other cases? Of course the response will be that the DRS allows the batting or bowling teams to use technology to check these areas - well there is no reason that the batting team can't use the DRS to check for no balls as well - just have the non-striker look at the bowler's feet when he is delivering the ball.

No, I don't agree.
The umpires CAN use technology in these other case, on the referral of the two sides playing. The is obviously no reason the batting team can't use the DRS to check no balls. I agree with the sentiment that this is a pretty unsporting thing to do, however. Worse things have happened on a cricket field, however.

Just quickly, are you generally in favour of the DRS at all? Because I am not.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Just quickly, are you generally in favour of the DRS at all? Because I am not.

I don't mind it. It sometimes seems to work very well, sometimes quite poorly. I think if it is to be used we need to confirm the technology and we need to ensure every team is using it. There have been some issues this series such as Harris getting out despite the DRS and nicking it (LBW) and Bell getting overturned not out despite apparently nicking it.

No, I don't agree.
The umpires CAN use technology in these other case, on the referral of the two sides playing. The is obviously no reason the batting team can't use the DRS to check no balls. I agree with the sentiment that this is a pretty unsporting thing to do, however. Worse things have happened on a cricket field, however.

The onfield umpires can not use the technology for anything else other than catches, run outs and now no balls. It is only the 3rd umpire that uses it when on the teams ask for a referral. So why no keep it at that for the no balls? Why not let the players ask for a referral and then let the 3rd umpire use the technology to check for a no ball. Why give the on field umpire the ability to check for a no ball, but not check for edges etc?

If we are going to use a DRS with player referrals, then let them refer it. If we aren't going to have a DRS, then let umpires refer it. We don't need a mix of both referring it if we are going to use technology.
 

Epi

Dave Cowper (27)
Spinners who ball no-balls should receive no pity. Other than that - agree with Scotty - if it's referred fine otherwise the ref shouldn't be referring his own calls surely..
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
So now that the final humiliation has been served up and we have been totally and utterly annihilated in this series, let us look to the future. It's clear that the squad we took into this series has to change if we are to be a good cricket team again. Of the current bunch of test and first class players, who do we think should either stay in the squad or be given a chance?

I break this down to three categories: definite, probable/possible and never again.

Definite:
Michael Clarke -- in spite of his travails, the bloke can still bat. He's class. Not sure about the captaincy, but he can play and has a very good track record.
Haddin -- one of our best with the bat over the last couple of seasons and a handy keeper.
Watson -- the question is where to bat him, but in the absence of other openers at the moment he should stay where he is. He needs some support at the other end, however.
Siddle -- I'm not a huge fan, but the bloke has an enormous heart and never gives up. Has bowled his best when pitching it up a bit and thus should do that some more.
Khawaja -- one for the future this kid. His results don't suggest it yet, but I think he's class. Didn't look at all out of place out there.
Hussey -- even though I was calling him for to be dropped, his performances in the first three tests were outstanding. The question is whether or not we should keep him in the team or clean out and bring in some youth. I lean towards yes.


Probable/Possible
Ponting -- still our best batsman, but what do we do with him? My preference is to strip him of the captaincy and have him bat at 4 or 5. He's a proud man and may elect to retire instead.
Hughes -- for me the jury is still out on this guy. I wonder whether he's got the mental strength to play test cricket. I'd be sending him back to Shield cricket for the rest of the summer and tell him to score heavily.
Smith -- equally not sure. I think he has talent, but don't think he's ready for test cricket yet. Would anyone here pick him solely as a batsman or bowler at present? I think he needs to develop into a batsman first and see how he goes from there. His leggies are going to require some work, but he's still young.
Hilfenhaus -- I'm a big fan but he is not doing enough. Needs to go back to Tassie and find his shape again. I'd be dropping him if playing a test next week.
Johnson -- I've lost patience with this bloke. With the state of our current attack, we need some leadership and he's not providing it. Too inconsistent and seems mentally not strong enough.
Bollinger -- Dougy came back injured and unfit from the T20 frivolities and it really hurt us. A fit Bollinger is a real asset to the attack, but he needs a lot more cricket under his belt before I would play him at the top level again.
Beer -- Michael is a mate and I'm duty bound to defend him, but if I'm honest I'm not sure. Deserves more of a chance to prove himself though.
Hauritz -- very harshly treated I thought. I think he should be given an opportunity to get back in the team, but either the captain or selectors have abandoned the bloke. There has to be more to this than meets the eye.

Never Again
Doherty -- what the hell were the selectors thinking? Haury would have been no worse than this bloke.
Harris -- this is basically due to an injury that I don't think is going to get any better. I think he's been one of our best this summer, but his body is letting him down. It's a real shame, as I'd like to see him back in the side.


So, who are the candidates? From Shield ranks I would be looking the following:

Copeland, has looked good for NSW this year and last. He can't be too far from a call up.
Maddinson, very young and raw but is already making big runs at Shield level.
Cosgrove, though he needs be fitter to go the distance in test cricket. He can play though and is still young.
Shaun Marsh, the selectors need to pull him aside and tell him that opportunities await him if he can get the kind of consistency in his game that he's started to show this season. He should already be in the team with the talent he's got, but he's not done enough in the middle yet.
Ferguson, though I think his selection window is closing fast unless he starts making runs more consistently.
Pattinson, one for the future if he continues to develop at the current rate.
George, has had a single test and wasn't disgraced. Like Copeland, he can't be too far from a call up.
O'Keefe, we should definitely be looking at this bloke. He's got a FC batting average of 46 and bowling of 23.
Lynn, could be the next big thing out of QLD. He's gone OK so far.
MacDonald, before getting injured he was in red hot form. Hopefully he can get back and do it some more.
 

Sandpit Fan

Nev Cottrell (35)
Just thinking about the batting order, I wonder if Mark Cosgrove might finally come in from the cold and get a shot at it. He's been in hot form this season since joining Tassie and is only 26. I know he's a fat unfit bastard, but jeez he can bat. He opened for Tas in their last Shield game and got 100 and 86no. Could be worth a punt...

Much like another well known Tasmanian opener who enjoyed a drink then, you might say? We could do worse.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Pretty much agree with your analysis Hornet. The only thing I would disagree with is the ommission of Cameron White from the potentials list. The guy is next in line for mine, and a big performance in the 7 ODIs will do his chances no harm. Would add Josh Hazlewood and Mitchell Starc to the list of potential callups as well.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
White will now be 20-20 captain with Clarke quiting. Good move for all concerned that one.
 
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