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The Australian Constitution

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wilful

Larry Dwyer (12)
We are severely over-governed in Australia as a result of our colonial past. I largely agree with an attempt to streamline the process with either eliminating or amalgamating levels of government. However, the issue is how best to do it? To amend the constitution you would have to gain not only the majority of voters but the majority of states and regardless who is in power at the federal level I cannot see either party at the state level backing such a move.

How I would go about it would be to first forcibly amalgamate local government structures by raising the requirements to form councils to 1,000,000 person in metropolitan areas, 500,000 for the more populous regional area's and 100,000 in greater country areas. This would drastically cut council numbers nationwide by as much as half.

On the state and federal level I would move the required 40,000 needed to form a state seat to 80,000 and 80,000 (I actually think it's higher now) to 160,000 for federal seats. Basically double everything to halve the current size of each model. This is probably the only way I could see if feasibly happening.

I'm not so sure we are overgoverned. But anyway. One of the best things that Jeff Kennett did was cut the number of councils in Victoria from 270 to 75.

I heard that in Queensland Beattie wanted to do the same but it was too unpopular.
 

Roundawhile

Billy Sheehan (19)
And now Cambell Newman is looking at reversing the amalgamations!

Lets spend many many millions to achieve.........?
 

Roundawhile

Billy Sheehan (19)
Doesn't it seem somewhat strange that we have "20,000 too many state public servants" but we can afford to employ another 5,000 council employees and the enormous amount of money that would be required to re-establish these councils?

So much for smaller government. More like pandering to those most likely to support his government.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Sounds like they just wanted to get a few votes from the Noosa area. Nothing in that says they are actually going to do it, and it also says that rate payers would have to stump for the cost.

A bit of selective reading there from you, Roundawhile.
 

Roundawhile

Billy Sheehan (19)
Minister says no new 'super shires' in southern Queensland
The Local Government Minister says councils have one of two clear choices in regards to recent de-amalgamation calls in southern Queensland; revert to the old council boundaries, or stay 'as is'.


Despite momentum gaining for a push to create a new council from the former Pittsworth, Millmerran and Clifton shires, David Crisafulli says the criteria for de-amalgamation is clear, "reverting to what was there in the past...If an individual shire wishes to breakaway, that clearly fits the guidelines, but we are not talking about putting together new local government areas."

http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2012/07/23/3551513.htm
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
What name would you call the mega state merger of South Australia, Tasmania, and Victoria?

Any suggestions?

I have given this some thought and come up with WARIPLAND or a slight variation on that.

Where Australian Rules Is Played Land

Where Australian Football Is Played (WAFIPLAND) ?
 

Runner

Nev Cottrell (35)
There are around 800 councils across Australia. If you just have 10 coucillors in each that is a lot of people governing us.
Local councils are controlled by a state minister and department. Abolish that and you get rid of 1 minister, assistant minister in some states, and the whole level of breucracy
On the state level, Tasmanian should be declared a National Park, be stripped of Statehood and replaced by NT.
With Tasmanian gone we don't need the state government or the 10 federal senators that they have. Considerable financial savings and we have a new large national park.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Interesting debate. Ironic as the push in the NT is for statehood.

We have more pressing issues regarding our constitution such as getting it to equally recognize all Australians.
 

Roundawhile

Billy Sheehan (19)
Sorry Ruggo. What we view as pressing and what the political machines views as pressing are somewhat disjointed.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
The Australian Constitution was a fine document for its time, but is it time to review some of the fundamental structures underpining the Commonwealth of Australia? FFS there are only 24 millions of us in the Lucky Country and around the world there are some megacities with greater populations.

Amalgamating levels of government can’t be the top priority constitutionally. The simple fact that 3% of us are not even recognized under the constitution is a disgrace. Acknowledging the first Australians constitutionally is a must. Then after that some basic indigenous studies should be included in our curriculum's to develop some understanding of culture and provide some tools to bridge the massive cultural divide moving forward.

Australia really needs to be seriously talking about this issue and not discarding it to the "to hard basket".
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Ruggo the constitution recognises no one: it refers to people and does not define that term.
The history of the right of indigneous australians to vote is covered here:
http://www.aec.gov.au/indigenous/indigenous-vote.htm

I have no strong view one way or the other but to include reference to aborigines in the constitution when no other group of people is mentioned would seem to be a recipe for continued segregation and to enshrine differential treatment.
 

churchills cigar

Peter Burge (5)
The radio has reported this morning that former Victorian State Premier Jeff Kennett has proposed that there would be value in Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania amalgamating.

What say you to going the full monty and getting rid of all state governments and their associated fat bureaucracies?

The Australian Constitution was a fine document for its time, but is it time to review some of the fundamental structures underpining the Commonwealth of Australia? FFS there are only 24 millions of us in the Lucky Country and around the world there are some megacities with greater populations.

It seems that there is a high price paid by residents for their supposed state governments which are little more than Lord Mayors and City Councillors of the respective State Capital Cities because they seem to have little interest in what happens outside the boundaries of the State Capitol metropolitan area.

How much money and resources would be freed up for infrastructure development, education, health and rugby if we did away with the State Governments and all their associated agencies which in many instances are duplicates of Federal agencies?

The problem, well it's not really a problem is that it is the states and us, the people that give the constitution force.
The constitution does not control state power, it is state power bestowed in the commonwealth.
So for any state to disappear or Merge with another it will be an issue decided at state level, not commonwealth.
In essence, the commonwealth( and Australia constitution) have no power to do anything that is not in s 51 or not bestowed on the commonwealth by the states, so good luck getting the commonwealth to make laws to amalgamate states or local councils, it's none of their business, literally.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
The problem, well it's not really a problem is that it is the states and us, the people that give the constitution force.
The constitution does not control state power, it is state power bestowed in the commonwealth.
So for any state to disappear or Merge with another it will be an issue decided at state level, not commonwealth.
In essence, the commonwealth( and Australia constitution) have no power to do anything that is not in s 51 or not bestowed on the commonwealth by the states, so good luck getting the commonwealth to make laws to amalgamate states or local councils, it's none of their business, literally.

Thats why there is a small federal push to get local councils somehow formally recognised.
That way the pollies in Canberra can by pass the states and send the money directly to their voters.
Hopefully the overriding cynicism of Australians when it comes to referendums will prevent this subterfuge.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
I would be happy to increase the size of local councils and abolish state government.

The Feds control the money and the locals control most of the services (health and education would be federal though).
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I would be happy to increase the size of local councils and abolish state government.

The Feds control the money and the locals control most of the services (health and education would be federal though).
No fan of centralised power, and no fan of the idiots who get voted in to local government

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
No fan of the idiots who get voted in to State parliaments either.

Looks like we are stuffed whichever way we go about it.
 
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