• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

The Climate Change Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ruggo

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
George has his head so far up his own arse that he has to worry about other emissions.

He really is a waste of space.
 
Gnostic

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Ruggo said:
That is a pretty spot on cultural analysis of the situation Gnostic. The notion of protecting the wilderness is false on many levels. First being that the construct of a "wilderness" excludes prior human influence which many aboriginal people find offensive. I can't say I blame them for feeling that way. Second being that fire for far to long has been regarded as a destructive force, rather than a natural event with many beneficial biodiversity effects and maintaining an equalibrium within the ecosystem.

A sticking point in land management has been the vast differences between Western science and Aboriginal custom is in the fundamentals of how both knowledge's function. It is often very hard for each side to understand and accept the other point of view. There has been some good work in bringing the two together done in Northern Australia in recent years. A vast stream of proven historical and practical knowledge has been combined with enhanced technology to apply that knowledge on a far greater scale.
Click to expand...

This is particularly hard when a lot of academics suffer from what I would term lettered arrogance and of course 200 years worth of indoctrination that the uneducated savage could not possibly have anything to teach the dominant white man anything about anything. What a tragedy colonialism has been to the collective knowledge of the natural world. IMO the loss of native cultures/knowledge of their ecosystems worldwide is really the second dark ages or burning of the Great Library.
 
Ruggo

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
I agree Gnostic though a big issue is also the scope of the scientific method. The inductive and deductive method of quantifying everything makes it very hard to grasp the spiritual side of the knowledge. It is all the one package in Indigenous culture whereas we have strictly been taught to separate the physical from the spiritual.

We have also been willing to believe through our actions that we are distanced from the environment when the ecological reality is that we are just another species within it.

In a social context, I think your post in full sums up the entire indigenous affairs issue.
 
Ruggo

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
On the local ABC news last night they had a story on How Alice Springs airport is up to 80% self power generation through solar. Pissed off I couldn't find a link to show it but the new extension consists of building basic shade structure over the car park. Instead of using standard tin roof sheeting, they have used the solar panels to form the roof. Such a simple and practical design I thought it was worth a mention.
 
boyo

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
Abbott out of step on climate change, says Professor Jeffrey Sachs

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/abbott-out-of-step-on-climate-change-says-professor-jeffrey-sachs-20140520-38mmn.html#ixzz32JUPLEec

"Australia's reversal on climate change action will ultimately not stick because the rest of the world will make clear that it is unacceptable, globally renowned economist Professor Jeffrey Sachs says."

"He said ultimately Australia was not a smaller player in stopping climate change and was among a handful of countries that mattered because of their fossil fuel use and production, including China, the US, the European Union, Canada, India and the Gulf states.
Professor Sachs said he had told Foreign Minister Julie Bishop this week Australia should join other major coal producers to develop technologies that captured and stored emissions from burning coal because the world needed to know soon whether it would work.
Along with cuts to renewable energy, the Abbott government cut $440 million from carbon capture and storage programs in last week's budget."

From the comments:-
"The coalition policy on renewables, which has resulted in their wanting to remove the carbon tax, will end up costing this country billions.
Jobs, billions in investment dollars? The coalition thinks the renewables industry is an unworthy industry.
We need to get this rotten mob of backward looking anti-capitalists out of government before they completely ruin our economy."

"The UK has changed since Abbott left. They have smart industrial leaders over there, and excellent manufacturing facilities which genuinely address quality management issues."

"Nothing new really as Abbott is out of step with everything.
He believes in the sky fairies but not in factual science.
We are in deep do do with this in charge"
 
Runner

Runner

Nev Cottrell (35)
When the world decides on a rational agreed upon policy then Australia should get involved. What has come out of all the discussion, hot air and wasted paper since Copenhagen? Zero!
 
boyo

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
The argument that Australia should be a follower, not a leader, is typical of the do-nothing attitude.
 
Runner

Runner

Nev Cottrell (35)
boyo said:
The argument that Australia should be a follower, not a leader, is typical of the do-nothing attitude.
Click to expand...



We are not a super power even if perhaps Kevin thought that when he waltzed into Europe and China.

No need to comit suicide to be pure.
 
wilful

wilful

Larry Dwyer (12)
boyo said:
The argument that Australia should be a follower, not a leader, is typical of the do-nothing attitude.
Click to expand...
But boyo, I'm not seeing any evidence of Australia even following. They're more working actively to destroy international progress.

Runner, everybody says that Australia punches well above its weight in these forums, or at least used to. We were highly influential. But yes, if there was some significant downside to reforming the economy to be less reliant on fossil fuels, then I agree, we would be foolish to be too noble and pure and out in front. however, it's far more likely that there is significant first mover advantage economically in undertaking the necessary reforms, creating the skills base etc to prosper. It's a no brainer that we will have a vastly different economy at some stage in the future, we really ought to get on with it now as it will be better for us in the short, medium and long terms.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Runner said:
When the world decides on a rational agreed upon policy then Australia should get involved. What has come out of all the discussion, hot air and wasted paper since Copenhagen? Zero!
Click to expand...

Considering we're the highest per capita emitters in the world and the driest continent in the world most susceptible to climate change then you'd think Australia has a vested interest to be a leader in this area.

It's batshit crazy for a rich country with the most to lose continuing to have a higher per capita carbon footprint than anyone else in the world.
 
Runner

Runner

Nev Cottrell (35)
Braveheart81 said:
Considering we're the highest per capita emitters in the world and the driest continent in the world most susceptible to climate change then you'd think Australia has a vested interest to be a leader in this area.

It's batshit crazy for a rich country with the most to lose continuing to have a higher per capita carbon footprint than anyone else in the world.
Click to expand...

We may not be rich for long.

But if your worried about the social consequences of the present budget look at the impact on the lower income earners of taxation or other price measures for power.

Then consider we are a commodity based economy with manufacturing already suffering due to price variations due to the dollar, work practices and competition from others who will not do what is suggested.

Say China has a tax, but it is imposed on Chinese power companies that are owned by the government. So no one actually pays.

Also since the world is now moving back to coal or gas both carbon emmitters I don't see much success in the future.
 
Runner

Runner

Nev Cottrell (35)
wilful said:
But boyo, I'm not seeing any evidence of Australia even following. They're more working actively to destroy international progress.

Runner, everybody says that Australia punches well above its weight in these forums, or at least used to. We were highly influential. But yes, if there was some significant downside to reforming the economy to be less reliant on fossil fuels, then I agree, we would be foolish to be too noble and pure and out in front. however, it's far more likely that there is significant first mover advantage economically in undertaking the necessary reforms, creating the skills base etc to prosper. It's a no brainer that we will have a vastly different economy at some stage in the future, we really ought to get on with it now as it will be better for us in the short, medium and long terms.
Click to expand...

Happy to close ever coal powered station if we go nuclear. Now see what that brings.

Alternative technologies do work at a micro level but can't at a macro level. The issues beginning to emerge about wind and how Europe is reassessing that will be interesting.
 
boyo

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
Budget analysis shows climate-change commitments to be left to the 11th hour

http://www.armidaleexpress.com.au/s...commitments-to-be-left-to-the-11th-hour/?cs=7

"More than three quarters of the cut in greenhouse gas emissions needed for Australia to meet its international commitments on climate change would be left to the last minute under the government's direct action plan, a budget analysis suggests."

"Institute chief executive John Connor said the risk of missing the target would be heightened if the 20 per cent renewable energy target – currently under review - was reduced or scrapped. It would leave the emissions reduction fund to make up the shortfall in emissions cuts.
''I think, once again, it shows the weakness of relying on the annual budget as central to your carbon reduction strategy,'' Mr Connor said.
''It is so backward to shift the burden from the polluter to the taxpayer.''
 
boyo

boyo

Mark Ella (57)
'Damage already done': Climate Change Authority staff quit amid uncertainty

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/damage-already-done-climate-change-authority-staff-quit-amid-uncertainty-20140527-391vq.html#ixzz32u5MbKfF

"Mr Fraser, a former Reserve Bank governor, told a Senate estimates hearing on Tuesday that even if the Parliament did not abolish the authority, as per the Abbott government's wishes, he did not know how its work could go on with just 20 staff members left.

Legislation to scrap the authority has been defeated once by the Parliament but its funding has ceased in the federal budget.

"We don't know what's going to happen to us," Mr Fraser said."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top