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The League Media

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papabear

Watty Friend (18)
This thread is funny.

Why on earth should the rugby league media do anything for the rugby union media.

How much has the union media done for league?

If it makes you feel any better I imagine it won't be to long that the league media realises its biggest threat is soccer and the populous who support union and are into feeling like they have a higher iq or higher status then others so they are more likely to watch another higher status sport like AFL or Horsey Polo or crocquet. At which point time it will just have a general apathy to union.

for the record the league media complains when league is decided by golden point and asks for changes to golden try, yet the op wants union to be treated differently?

That said, IMO the angst from the OP comes from a place whereby he has to justify why he still supports union and has not moved on to a better product like the rest of Australia.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
This thread is funny.

Your spelling and syntax are pretty funny, too.

That said, IMO the angst from the OP comes from a place whereby he has to justify why he still supports union and has not moved on to a better product like the rest of Australia.

The rest of Australia does not support loig, mate, just the East Coast states. AFL is, arguably, more popular than your little game. About as popular internationally too, come to think of it. :):)
 

papabear

Watty Friend (18)
You will notice in that paragraph re jumping on to a different sport I didn't say it would be league. A paragraph before I even mentioned how rugby fans culture was analogous with some of AFL culture.

I wish you the best in following AFL when you get tired of watching rugby.

If only your knowledge in context matched that clearly superior intellect you have both from your union watching habits and syntax and spelling skills.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Careful with rule 6.

Not all those with bad spelling and grammar come from Fivekick, and not all those in Heavensgame are tops in English either.

Exhibit 1. The Front Row
Exhibit 2. Tom "Laxitive" English
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Careful with rule 6.

Not all those with bad spelling and grammar come from Fivekick, and not all those in Heavensgame are tops in English either.

Exhibit 1. The Front Row
Exhibit 2. Tom "Laxitive" English
exhibit 3. Me
 

Antony

Alex Ross (28)
This thread is funny.

Why on earth should the rugby league media do anything for the rugby union media.

How much has the union media done for league?

If it makes you feel any better I imagine it won't be to long that the league media realises its biggest threat is soccer and the populous who support union and are into feeling like they have a higher iq or higher status then others so they are more likely to watch another higher status sport like AFL or Horsey Polo or crocquet. At which point time it will just have a general apathy to union.

for the record the league media complains when league is decided by golden point and asks for changes to golden try, yet the op wants union to be treated differently?

That said, IMO the angst from the OP comes from a place whereby he has to justify why he still supports union and has not moved on to a better product like the rest of Australia.


I had a glance at your profile mate. This comment also applies to the various rugby union trolls that hang out on rugby league forums (Rugby League Planet has a particularly bad infestation) but I will never for the life of me understand people who join a forum covering something that they clearly hate, just to disagree.

Nobody is saying rugby is a perfect "product", or that the league media owes it anything. A lot of people on this forum, myself included, like every sport that you named in your post above. People are just talking about issues concerning something they love; no need to be a snark.
 

mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
Nobody is saying rugby is a perfect "product", or that the league media owes it anything. A lot of people on this forum, myself included, like every sport that you named in your post above. People are just talking about issues concerning something they love; no need to be a snark.


That does raise the question of why league media goes out of its way to smear rugby when it gets the chance -- which is the point of the thread. Does rugby media in Australia take swipes at league? Not on forums like this -- trolls mushroom up as soon as the server is turned on. Just curious if the people at Fox or in the Australian papers take the opportunity to knock down league in the same way we see league media try to knock down rugby.

Personally, I haven't seen it -- which makes me think league media's bashing rugby is out of fear and trying to punch down, rather than taking on something like soccer or AFL.
 

papabear

Watty Friend (18)
I think you will find most of leagues media greivances are out of either:-
a - historical greivances
b - retaliatory to that of the union media.

You might not notice union media bashing league because you agree with a lot of there comments, but union media will poorly reference leagues culture compared to its own given the chance. Obviously theres other stuff union says but all in all, it is nothing issue from either side, the op is just soft.
 

terry j

Ron Walden (29)
I think you will find most of leagues media greivances are out of either:-
a - historical greivances
b - retaliatory to that of the union media.

You might not notice union media bashing league because you agree with a lot of there comments, but union media will poorly reference leagues culture compared to its own given the chance. Obviously theres other stuff union says but all in all, it is nothing issue from either side, the op is just soft.

That is so wrong? Do we not see a lot of teeth gnashing from the league types over these very same issues ? (well, that is leaving aside the large proportion who see no problem in it)

I will say that your observation that we might not see the bashing because we agree with it most likely contains a lot of truth, we as humans only seem to get upset over things we disagree with, the things we do agree with simply don't get seen.

Having said that, I must admit I rarely see union (media) 'bashing' league, in fact I note the often praise the union guys give to the game (again, this is a case where I note the things I don't agree with haha)

In any case, true or not, the case of 'culture' is seperate from the quality of the game itself (quality as in nature, type, not referencing 'good or bad').

For mine, THAT is the league bashing under discussion here, and I strenuously object because it is (to anyone who wants to sit down and actually observe) demonstrably wrong.

Rugby is NOT slow, I'd be willing to bet that it is at least four to five times faster than league (my own rule of thumb, and how would you measure it anyway?) yet we see the term 'yawnion' thrown about by people I strongly suspect do not watch the game, and if they do would only watch it to prove themselves right...a variation on your point of not noticing things we agree with, it does NOT consist of 'kicks only' (and I'd be willing to bet there are more kicks in league nowadays), it is NOT a game 'decided by penalties once again'.

And what really galls me is that these sporadic attacks often come about on the basis of a game in isolation. You cannot cherry pick your evidence to make a point. So the ABs and Wobs had a draw with no tries. Out come the league hacks using it as proof of the essential nature of rugby, but to do that you have to ignore the next weeks game where there are ten tries or somesuch.

Remember the huffy attacks over france and nz playing the low scoring RWC final (or choose any other similar game), but was there not a few years ago a league grand final that was low scoring?

Of course, that just proves the superiority and tougher nature of league defence.

put simply, the attacks vary each week according to the game under discussion, and ignore the next weeks game that disproves the attack, and ignores the truth that rugby is not a homogenous product which serves up essentially the same dish every single time.

And that, if I were to think about it, could very well be the essential point of difference between the two codes, and the reason I prefer rugby. I LOVE it that sometimes a team can have a dominant scrum and destroy the opposition, and yet next week the point of difference will be something else.

I LOVE it that a team can opt for a tap, a scrum, a lineout or any other variation, as that is the whole point, it changes and varies according to conditions (or it should, not too much evidence of changing game plans in a certain recent game from the wobs I am thinking of).

I simply object to people trying to 'win arguments' based on falsehoods. if your argument does not have enough merit to stand on it's own two feet, and you have to resort to misinformation, then you have lost the argument in my book.
 

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
@terry j...........

image.jpg


Biggest "thumbs up" I could find.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
He who sets the parameters wins the debate. Loig followers dismiss every aspect of the game EXCEPT when a player is running with ball in hand. Everything else, particularly the contests for possession, is deemed to be a stoppage.

It's pretty juvenile, but that's the way they think, that's the way they want to think, and there is very little we can do about it.

All that said, I can totally understand why potential fans are not exactly entranced by a game which can be won or lost by a referee deciding, arbitrarily, that one side's scrum is so much better that that team deserves to win the game. Particularly when most, if not all, referees, have never had their heads inside a scrum in the lives, and when most, if not all, referees are guessing as to what has happened in any given scrummage.

Don't start me on rolling mauls. Or, rather, think about how to explain to a newcomer to the game just why tackling the ball-carrier is not allowed, just because a few blokes are lumbering forward with their hands on the bums of the blokes in front.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
The irony in NRL fans complaints about unions rules and referees is the complaints about consistency in NRL referees, even in the space of a match and the scope for this inconsistency in their rules in aspects such as the tackle area.

I for the life of me, as a guy who grew up on league, understand how there can be that many variables in a tackle and play the ball. Some games they will let defenders fight longer to take the player to ground, some they will let them take longer getting off the player (which has become a joke the way teams do this - surely just penalizing would see teams getting up much more quickly) and then some games they will crack down on all of this.

To have that and then deride the ruck laws in rugby is ridiculous.
 

Sir Arthur Higgins

Alan Cameron (40)
the tackle in league and resetting of play takes just as long as your average ruck if not longer in the instance of quick ball and some nz rucks we saw on the weekend.
what would you rather see, an actual contest of physical strength and power (ruck) or some jackass writhing around on the ground for no apparent reason while two guys hold him there - the whole spectacle as far as i can tell is for no obvious reason.
 

mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
You might not notice union media bashing league because you agree with a lot of there comments, but union media will poorly reference leagues culture compared to its own given the chance. Obviously theres other stuff union says but all in all, it is nothing issue from either side, the op is just soft.


This isn't my experience at all.

First, I'm not in Australia, so I'm just not as exposed to your media. I check the papers/sites online on occasion (and obviously GAGR), and I listen to podcasts. I also get a lot of news out of Europe.

Outside of some posts here in these forums, I can't think of the last time I've seen any union bashing of league. Quite the opposite, actually -- I hear acknowledgment of good league plays when they happen, and union players tweeting about it when they watch a league game. Brian Moore, the former England hooker, even has a league segment on his talkSPORT show, and he doesn't bash them at all. He even goes out of his way to talk about what union could learn from league, and vice-versa.

So do us a favor and show us your evidence. There have been plenty of examples of league media taking swipes at union. Don't just tell us it happens the other way and expect us to bow to your superior argument. Put up or shut up.
 

mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
what would you rather see, an actual contest of physical strength and power (ruck) or some jackass writhing around on the ground for no apparent reason while two guys hold him there - the whole spectacle as far as i can tell is for no obvious reason.


The writhing really bothers me. I wrestled into college (we didn't have rugby where I'm from in the States), and when someone writhes around uselessly like that, it's a signal of complete submission and weakness; it shows you've been thoroughly dominated by a more powerful competitor. We call them fish. I haven't seen that much flopping since I coached kids wrestling. It's jarring.

On the other hand, Aaron Smith flings a goddam bullet out of the rucks these days. It's amazing to watch how fast and snappy he is. A lot of it, I think, has to do with his body size/shape and his body position: He's already low to the ground, but he bends well at the knees, not at the hips, and he keeps his back at a good angle. It's like he's getting in position to jump when he's getting the ball out of the ruck, and he powers out of that position into the pass. If you watch the other scrum halves he competes against, their knees are almost always straighter and they bend over more at the waist.

And his box kicks are becoming almost as fast. It's like he's playing in fast-forward.
 

terry j

Ron Walden (29)
I have picked up a bit from you in this debate, you are the 'voice of reason' at times. I accept that some/most of this is what league fans believe, so if I question it it is not directed at you.

He who sets the parameters wins the debate. Loig followers dismiss every aspect of the game EXCEPT when a player is running with ball in hand. Everything else, particularly the contests for possession, is deemed to be a stoppage.

Explains then why there are so few passes, gotta run with it in hand :) But if we take this objection at face value, how then to explain their mute acceptance of five seconds of futile writhing on the ground every*single*tackle? Maybe they have changed the rules of league, but when I played the rule was you had to leave the tackled player immediately so he could play the ball. Perhaps it has been replaced by a time limit?

In any case, I have a very hard time marrying up that desire to the actuality in their own game.

All that said, I can totally understand why potential fans are not exactly entranced by a game which can be won or lost by a referee deciding, arbitrarily, that one side's scrum is so much better that that team deserves to win the game. Particularly when most, if not all, referees, have never had their heads inside a scrum in the lives, and when most, if not all, referees are guessing as to what has happened in any given scrummage.

Again, i accept that may be how they feel, but dumbing down their game has had little effect on 'contentious ref decisions' has it. Heck, at least there is something to ref in the scrums!

Don't start me on rolling mauls. Or, rather, think about how to explain to a newcomer to the game just why tackling the ball-carrier is not allowed, just because a few blokes are lumbering forward with their hands on the bums of the blokes in front.

Well tbh I think this particular one is a pet peeve of yours rather than a league objection!:) in any case, as a counter example, I love a good rolling maul! I can accept that you don't, tis all ok. But for me, it is yet another example of the splendid variation available to players in our game, not the group hug every five seconds in the other.

The thing is, referring to your scrum example, there WAS a time in league when the scrum, and the associated dark arts, was a valued part of their game. It was as fiercely contested, and as important to excel in, as it is in ours.

From memory, the reason it went was NOT due to some valued principle such as 'let's speed the game up and concentrate on running with ball in hand', it came about due to injuries which kept increasing.

So the solution was to get rid of it (yes, i know they have 'scrums'). So we had the ironic situation of highly paid professionals who could not get off their arse and practice at training the skills required to make scrums viable! I mean, they were professionals for god's sake, yet could not be bothered to practice what they were paid for? OTOH we had the amateurs who not only 'did they're day job' but did what was needed at training.

And they bang on about how tough league is against the powder puff union guys?? I'd put money on the womens rugby team in a head to head with the best league team to blow them off the park in a scrum. man, that would provide some right royal entertainment! (a bit like that guy who faced brett lee in the nets I'd imagine)

look at the uproar just recently when a scrum actually pushed! "you can't do that, someone will get hurt!' Yet these are the tough guys?

No wonder people are clamoring for 'bring back the biff' and 'bring back the shoulder charge', getting hugged by three guys each tackle is hardly the epitome of tough.

And on the ref at scrum time in our game, as i said at least there are things to ref. In league, the requirement is to play the ball, yet how many times a game is the ball not even played properly? It just get's stepped over. I mean such a simple thing like that that highly paid professionals you'd think were capable of doing, yet how many times does it get picked up by the refs??

No wonder they howl and scream with a scrum penalty, not only are there rules to be followed, the ref had the balls to pick them up on it. (the ref would cop a right talking to from the players if he did that in league i might add)
 

mxyzptlk

Colin Windon (37)
Again, i accept that may be how they feel, but dumbing down their game has had little effect on 'contentious ref decisions' has it. Heck, at least there is something to ref in the scrums!

The head of the NRL, Todd Greenberg, announced today a "positive plans & initiatives for our NRL match officials" thingamajig. Apparently it's meant to address dissatisfaction with refereeing in the NRL.

No wonder people are clamoring for 'bring back the biff' and 'bring back the shoulder charge', getting hugged by three guys each tackle is hardly the epitome of tough.

hugby league.
 
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