1. Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

The NBN (National Broadband Network)

Discussion in 'Politics' started by RugbyReg, Aug 25, 2010.

  1. I like to watch Simon Poidevin (60)

    Likes Received:
    5,581
    That's a fucking great premise for spending $43 billion.
  2. Groucho Greg Davis (50)

    Likes Received:
    3,163
    I think there is some confusion out there in Oz consumer-world about the difference between wholesale broadband and retail services.

    NBNCo will provide the physical network in the same way as Telstra and Optus do now. Retail service providers (who cannot be NBNCo - a lesson learned from mistakes made with Telstra) then compete to provide services that the consumer pays for. There is no direct charge to the consumer for the network: it is funded initially from tax dollars, and then in the long term from the rent that the retail service providers pay to NBNCo.

    People who opt out of a connection are being silly. Running fibre to the home after the rollout will be a chargeable activity, although, as now, it may be funded initially by the customer's chosen retail service provider.
    boyo, Richo, Sully and 2 others like this.
  3. Scotty David Codey (61)

    Likes Received:
    3,119
    I bet that it will end up being installed by the retailer provider, possibly at a low or no cost, but that this will then be subsidised by the NBN Co as the cost to the retailer (passed onto the consumer) will be too high and preclude people from taking it up. (Hope that made sense.)
  4. Groucho Greg Davis (50)

    Likes Received:
    3,163
    That would be a huge own goal.
  5. Groucho Greg Davis (50)

    Likes Received:
    3,163
    Mr Timms, do you already have broadband? If you already have fibre then there will be no new cable. If you have Telstra copper then there's a cable changeover that you will need, I think, since the Telstra CAN will be switched off and your phone line will stop working (although I must check that out).

    If you currently have no broadband at all then you will have the option, since the government can't force it on you.
  6. Sully John Eales (66)

    Likes Received:
    8,740
    So basically you can get the fibre to your home now definately for free or you can wait and take a chance it's still free then.
    boyo likes this.
  7. Moses Simon Poidevin (60)

    Likes Received:
    1,567
  8. Bowside Peter Johnson (47)

    Likes Received:
    1,829
    I think I public will react in the same way they did to free view. Once people realise its worth having they will get it, and if its free, then why would they not get it done.
    boyo likes this.
  9. The_Brown_Hornet Michael Lynagh (62)

    Likes Received:
    5,182
  10. The_Brown_Hornet Michael Lynagh (62)

    Likes Received:
    5,182
  11. MrTimms Ken Catchpole (46)

    Likes Received:
    914
    I understand all the wholesale side of this. I just have objections to being told what will or won't be installed into a house I own (probably runs a little deeper than that too, but we digress.).

    It would be better handled by the reseller contacting the customer and advising they are changing the carriage of my service, when can we organise the connection.
  12. Groucho Greg Davis (50)

    Likes Received:
    3,163
    MrTimms, no one is forcing anyone to install anything. You, like everyone, will be offered the choice.

    However, I guess the "problem" with consumer choice in this matter is that the total cost of n separate installations will be considerably higher than for a structured rollout of the service. If I was concerned about the total cost to the nation of NBN (and don't get me wrong, I am) then I'd want my house cabled up in the initial rollout, and I'd want other people to do the same.

    There'll be some people out there (I don't mean you) who'd see a higher total cost as an acceptable investment in embarrassing the government. That's the problem when technology plans become political footballs. It would be a real bummer for Australia if the real cost of the project trebled, with the overspend hidden in higher retail service charges.
    boyo likes this.
  13. Scotty David Codey (61)

    Likes Received:
    3,119
    Does anyone know if the plan is to offer free connection from the street to the house to every house in Australia? I haven't seen any information on this and wonder if it is just being done in the trial locations.

    It would make more sense for the retail providers to do it when consumers subscribe.
  14. Scotty David Codey (61)

    Likes Received:
    3,119
    Business Spectator article on the subject:

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au...-telstr-pd20101008-A23DA?OpenDocument&src=pmm

  15. Scotty David Codey (61)

    Likes Received:
    3,119
    It gets worse as the article goes on:

  16. Scotty David Codey (61)

    Likes Received:
    3,119
    Here is my NBN analogy:

    Joe Smith wants to build a retaining wall in his back yard, so he can flatten in out and enable his kids to play out there. He has several different options for this retaining wall - timber sleeper, concrete sleeper, interlocking blocks and reinforced concrete masonry. Now Joe is on a bit of a budget, so he is tossing up between the cheaper two options (the sleeper walls). Just as Joe is about to give the go ahead for the builder to start he finds out that the local government has outlawed the use of timber sleeper, concrete sleeper and interlocking blocks.

    He complains to council, but they explain that they are now only allowing for the reinforced concrete masonry walls to be built as they believe they will last longer, and future proof retaining wall construction. They say, don't worry Joe, all the builders that build the other types of walls also build this type, so you should be able to get a pretty good price for it.

    However the builders can't offer Joe the same price as a sleeper wall, as it costs them more to build it and they have to retain their margins. So poor Joe ends up paying a price that is about double what he wanted to spend, even though he does get a better product for it. He has no choice in the matter, because the government has forced a particular retaining wall type upon him.

    The requirements of the Labor government for Telstra to decommission the current fixed lines is very similar to this scenario, and it is taking choice and freedom away from the inhabitants of this country.
  17. Bowside Peter Johnson (47)

    Likes Received:
    1,829
    But what you don’t hear is the story of Joe’s next door neighbour.

    You see, Joe's next door neighbour, let’s call him Scotty, decided that he would get in before the new rules came to play and got a wooden sleeper wall built that is not as strong as Joes reinforced concrete masonry. A couple of years later there is a period of drought, followed by record rainfall which leads to soil movement. The wood sleeper then starts to rot away. The next year it rains again and Scotty's kids think it’s great and are having a waterfight in the back yard. One of them tries to climb the retaining wall to get a higher vantage point and wet the others with the hose, but the rotting wall is placed under too much pressure and gives way, crushing the child.

    Joe's neighbour Scotty then has to pay massive medical bills to fix his kids broken bones. In addition to this he has to fork out for a new retaining wall. Upon hearing what has happened, Joe finally realises that government is looking out for his best interest.
    boyo likes this.
  18. I like to watch Simon Poidevin (60)

    Likes Received:
    5,581
    can someone pleeeeease explain to this hillbilly, what the value add of NBN will be to me personally using the net @ home?
    Some of the tekheads have rambled on about a new world etc. But to me @ home what will it do, that I can't do now?
    for my share of $43bill + higher access costs it would want to be pretty fucking outrageous!
    Why wouldn't they just do a pilot in the inner city where the rollout cost per head is much lower & the take up rate probably much higher?
  19. Bowside Peter Johnson (47)

    Likes Received:
    1,829
    Now I don’t want to sound arrogant, but your use of '@' leads me to believe that you probably don’t pay tax anyways, and if I am right than it's a little bit hypocritical to complain.

    None the less, tax dollars are being spent investing in technology that will improve the speed at which and eventually ways in which all Australians are able to access information. Contrary to popular belief, there is more to this than being able to download porn faster. The roll out scheme does not just cover inner city areas because the technology is somewhat more useful to people in the bush, especially farmers/small business owners, but also remote doctors and teachers. I also suspect that the rural independents have something to do with the way in which it is being rolled out.

    As the tech heads who know more about this than me have said above, it will mean totally new softwares and services that many of us probably are not yet able to comprehend.
  20. Groucho Greg Davis (50)

    Likes Received:
    3,163
    The change that will affect most people will be the evolution of the Internet from a collection of documents into the equivalent of a single machine.

    We see see the first signs of that now, with web drives and Citrix and the like, but in a decade there will no longer be a clear distinction between your computer and other computers on the net. You'll be able to click on an application located anywhere you have access to, and run it like it was on your own computer.

    The applications for that world are being developed right now, and they are being designed with fast broadband as a given.

    That doesn't mean there won't be traditional forms of software, and traditional types of computer, at least for a while, but those will be phased out as the markef for them decreases.

    Twenty years from now, many of the things you do in life will be circumscribed by whether or not you are on the network. For entertainment, computing, home systems such as home heating, car servicing, innumerable everyday activities, there will be a world of haves, and a world of have-nots, all demarked by connectivity.

    And it won't just be a matter of slow download speeds. Without fast broadband, you simply won't have access to first-world cars, first-world refigerators, first-world computers. the list grows longer as the set of devices and services that are run by computers inexorably increases.

    And by access, I mean that you won't be able to buy them, or if you can, then you won;t be able to use them. You'll be stuck with the equivalent of the Trabant.

    Thirty years from now, you will have trouble finding a job, as homeworking becomes a necessity rather then the exception, using virtual offices that deliver a host of feeds and connections to your home. If you live in an area that is not comprehensively connected, then you will see that area become poorer as wages fall. Your house price will go through the floor.

    Then your dog will leave you and the wife will get fleas. Well, maybe not that. ;)
    boyo likes this.

Share This Page