The NZ/SA Rivalry, how fierce is it?

[Blue]

Agree with all the above but this is my personal perspective.

I grew up right smack bam in the middle of the bastion of Afrikanerdom. We pretty much got taught that we were right and everyone else was wrong (not just about segregation but just about everything else). The attitude was that if you don't sell us weapons or fuel fuckit, we'll make our own. Everything foreign was treated with suspicion and scorn. Even though were were a republic we still held a grudge against the Poms (and for your average narrow minded Afrikaner a Pom, Welshman, Irishman, Scotsman they were all English as far as we were concerned so fuck'em). So even though we wanted to beat the shit out of Poms in rugby, it wasn't the same prized scalp as the ABs. It was driven by hatred.

As for Australia, most of us knew preciously little about Aussies other than they spoke funny, wore funny hats and the whole place was a desert. We knew of XXXX beer and Kangaroos. That's it.

So what I am getting at we really didn't give much of a shit about anyone else.

Except the All Blacks.

The physicality of their game was probably one of the reasons and strangely there was some sort of affinity for the big farmers from an island afar. We had this view of them as hard men that explored and conquered a far away hostile land. That was something we could (rightly or wrongly) hang a hat on.

My three most prized possessions as a youngster in the 70's were:
- An All Black Rugby ball (which some fuck stole and I cried for a week)
- A long play record that documented the last official tour to SA in the 70's (in Afrikaans). The final bit was the sound of a plane taking off overlayed with the Haka. Eventually I had played this bit some many times that it was stuffed.
- A journal of AB vs SA rivalry going back to the first test match played between the two countries.

When we were taught mauling at school our coaches more often than not would talk about how the All Blacks did it. Rucking was spoke of as something that you wanted to do as well as the ABs.

We had a muddy batch at the end of one of our rugby fields at school. It was called New Zealand and if we screwed up in practice we had to go and scrum in it until we were all covered in mud.

I am sure that I am not alone in this experience.

(Getting sick as hell of losing to the bastards these days I have to say

I don't think there is much of a rivalry with Aus. Most SA fans don't like Australia. They can't really tell you why. They might mumble something about Shane Warne but not much more.

Your average Aussie fan sees these Saffers and dumb, thuggish lumps of Afrikaner meat who play the game all wrong. All this kicking and driving isn't real rugby.

Mild disdain is how I would describe it

 

[Blue]

Yeh great idea. I don't even know how South Africa are second ATM. The wallabies have had the meat over them for quite a while now. Surly the Anzac rivalry is much bigger then the saffas.

Is there ANYTHING you don't take personally?

 

[ACT Crusader]

Probably talking about Ian Jones terry he does commentary now. Was a bloody good lock, not sure I am convinced I would really like him as a person, but who knows??
As for Stu Wilson, yep he was a great wing, think his record should give him a few Brownie points, also a very very funny man to hear speak. Was part of the famed Ebony and Ivory wing set up for Wellinfton and All Blacks, with his real good mate Bernie Fraser on other wing.
The diving incident Wales you talking about was so staged by Haden, he should of got a kicking, but ref never saw it, it was genuine penalty for Geoff Wheel going of Frank Oliver's shoulder at No 2. Actually son used it somewhat a few years later when someone was jumping of his shoulder in lineout, didn't get a penalty, but ref watched his opponent next lineout and saw what was going on, son told me that's all he wanted.
Obviously of other current commentators we see from NZ, Willie Lose was a good No 8 played for Tonga, actually if you see Melodie Robison, she was a bloody good player in the women's team and has a WC winner's medal. Justin Marshall you would know, and the only other one that comes to mind at moment is Matt Cooper, does sideline quite often, an above average 12-13 for Chiefs had a few tests, probaly almost most famous moment was getting eye gouged by Richard Loe!!!

Craig Dowd was doing the Channel 10 coverage here in OZ of the first two bledisloes, with Matt Burke and the voice of rugby. Dowd wasn't too bad.

On the dive, here's some highlights and commentary from that infamous test match. Unfortunately the lineout incident overshadowed a fantastic Stu Wilson try

 

[Dan54]

Funny thing is, the player that kicked the goal from that penalty was Brian McKecknie, the very same Brian McKecknie that was the batsman that Trevor Chappell bowled to in the famous incident, obviously enjoys being in those situations!!!!

 

[The Red Baron]

Funny thing is, the player that kicked the goal from that penalty was Brian McKecknie, the very same Brian McKecknie that was the batsman that Trevor Chappell bowled to in the famous incident, obviously enjoys being in those situations!!!!

I noticed that, I was going to say something. An old flat mate from years ago (who is a Kiwi) once told me that McKecknie was a mate of his fathers, and would never talk about that particular day in 1981..

Anyway, back on topic. There have been some really interesting stories here guys, I have such a better insight into what makes the rivalry tick. I find it really interesting that the younger generation of Kiwis leans more towards beating the Wallabies than the Boks, whereas the older guys tend to remember the epic battles between the Blacks and Boks. Some which have gone down in folklore.

The South African view is quite interesting as well. Time in isolation seems to have increased the hunger to beat the All Blacks. Would that be a fair assessment?

 

[Shiggins]

It is absolutely no way down playing the Wallabies and the rivalry between Wllabies/ABs Shiggins, and as I have said some younger posters may have the ANZAC rivalry ahead, but most real rugby people who have followed the game for awhile would consider SA the main rival. Maybe as Paarl says you may never understand.
As an example I was talking to Saffa in Auckland years back when SA first came back to world rugby , he said then can't wait until we play you, the first test SA had at that stage was meant to be against Wallabies, he told me then that all of SA knew a test against the ABs would be arranged as they would not accept anyone else as their first test back!

I suppose I'm talking on a personal level. It's just irritating that something that means the most to me doesn't mean the most to them. So over all the Bledisloe is not as important as the..... What's the plate they play for? To the kiwis?Lol

 

[Shiggins]

Is there ANYTHING you don't take personally?

This is about how ppl feel isn't it? How do we all feel? For example my first 2 For australia would be All blacks then England. I'm just very passionate about the Bledisloe

 

[Dam0]

NZ v SA is the rugby equivalent of the Ashes.

 

[Shiggins]

This thread has to be full of kiwi trolls rubbing salt in the wounds from the Bledisloe loss saying that its no big deal compared to playing the boks. Or is it Bok trolls. I'll ask my kiwi mates and see what is more important to them.

 

[The Red Baron]

This thread has to be full of kiwi trolls rubbing salt in the wounds from the Bledisloe loss saying that its no big deal compared to playing the boks. Or is it Bok trolls. I'll ask my kiwi mates and see what is more important to them.

Now come on. At no point have I seen someone trolling this thread, apart from you. How are the stories coming out of this thread 'rubbing salt into the wounds from the Bledisloe'?

Go and read the thread again, and you will see there was a definite point to it, and I for one thank the guys who have shared their perspective. New Zealand and South Africa share a long and interesting rugby history, if you can't acknowledge that, it is your problem.

Why exactly do you find it irritating that the Kiwis don't reciprocate the way you want them to?

 

[Shiggins]

Now come on. At no point have I seen someone trolling this thread, apart from you. How are the stories coming out of this thread 'rubbing salt into the wounds from the Bledisloe'?

Go and read the thread again, and you will see there was a definite point to it, and I for one thank the guys who have shared their perspective. New Zealand and South Africa share a long and interesting rugby history, if you can't acknowledge that, it is your problem.

Why exactly do you find it irritating that the Kiwis don't reciprocate the way you want them to?

Because the Bledisloe means so much to me and the kiwis and Aussies I know. As for
Trolls I was joking mate. We just lost the one thing every rugby Australian wants to win, again! It's just hard to accept. I asked all the kiwis I know so ill see what these blokes have to say.

You are right about the Stories in the thread. Great stuff

 

[PaarlBok]

There have been some really interesting stories here guys, I have such a better insight into what makes the rivalry tick.

The South African view is quite interesting as well. Time in isolation seems to have increased the hunger to beat the All Blacks. Would that be a fair assessment?

Myself can tell you a lot about the isolation years. Grew up in the country North West Cape region of SA and still have a lot of fond memories when the All Blacks toured SA. Just as much as the Kiwis will tell you about the midweek Bok head match, just as hard was it when they toured SA. Saffers will always tell you about the fifth test against the CC champs during the tour.

This always bring back some memories.
http://springbokrugby.webs.com/fromupingtontowindhoek.htm

Bokkie Basson, a lovely handler, made a great impression as a polished fullback and an even stronger impression by retailing that he customarily travelled at least 10,000 miles a year to play rugby. Ravenscroft at scrumhalf was good and Conradie on the wing had the drop on Thorne for pace. If this were indeed the worst team in South Africa, then God help New Zealand.

I know most of that NWC team sowell, they were my heroes.

 

[ACT Crusader]

The only trolling in the thread was by Bullrush and his Marshall comment which is a load of rubbish.....

 

[southsider]

pretty simple, old people like the NZvSA rivalry while young people are more prone to the NZvAUS one.

From a aussie perspective NZ are number 1 followed by England. SA is very meh in my mind, doesn't really phase me wether we lose to them or not

 

[ACT Crusader]

My dad always said the 1956 series was the hardest rugby he ever saw. The battle of the front five in particular the front rows was immense. Having seen the footage and a doco on it, the scrum exchanges and the physical exchanges particularly after the Christchurch test in my mind adds to this mystique of the rivalry.

In the modern era there are games that really standout to me because of their physicality - Durban 02, Christchurch 04, Dunedin in 05 & 08

I reckon that type of physicality will be there again this year as a new breed of Bok forwards look to make their mark.

 

[Dam0]

1997 in Jo'berg was the greatest test I have ever seen. Unbelievable game of rugby. Fast, aggressive, close, feisty and with some memorable individual performances from both sides. Peter Marshall at his best as the ref as well.

Definitely check it out if you can.

 

[Chiefton]

I find it really interesting that the younger generation of Kiwis leans more towards beating the Wallabies than the Boks, whereas the older guys tend to remember the epic battles between the Blacks and Boks. Some which have gone down in folklore.

For me it's purely due to the fact that there's no touring from either side anymore.
It's bloody easy to get amped for a Boks v Blacks test, but 3 tough tests and touring against strong provincials teams would be perfect.

Obviously you can't change the way things are, but the rivalry has really simmered (for lack of a better word) a bit over the years since the final 96 Tour.

With Shiggins comments about The Aussies playing second fiddle to the Boks - Now you know how we Kiwis feel about The Australian Cricket team and fans classifying multiple other nations as bigger rivals . It's purely due to the fact that up until 1979 it was a heavy one way street in Trans Tasman tests whereas Springbok and All Black test were always Title Fights.

 

[Chiefton]

1997 in Jo'berg was the greatest test I have ever seen. Unbelievable game of rugby. Fast, aggressive, close, feisty and with some memorable individual performances from both sides. Peter Marshall at his best as the ref as well.

Definitely check it out if you can.

Both Tests against the Boks in that year were absolute rippers. I'll never forget Percy Montgomery's fluke of a try at Eden Park. It had me stunned for a while.

 

[Dam0]

Both Tests against the Boks in that year were absolute rippers. I'll never forget Percy Montgomery's fluke of a try at Eden Park. It had me stunned for a while.

90 points in a test match??? When was the last time that happened between 2 first tier teams? I guess you wouldn't want it so high every game, but then the games were still physical, brutal encounters - not really basketball rugby at all.

 

[Shiggins]

Percy was the man