The Wallabies Thread

[mst]

It's interesting that the blame for the lineout issues are being laid on the players and not the coaches.....

Paul Cully's take from weekend:

Its intriguing to consider that what can be done at Super Rugby level seem unable to be replicated at the Wallabies level. The Wallabies seem to of a lower standard in comparison to what Super Rugby teams and coaches are producing. We may have a coaching deficiency, but the Super Rugby coaches appear to be able to do what the Wallabies coaching team individually and as a collective; and with arguable more resources and more talent, are unable to do.

There is a real argument that the coaching crisis is actually created / manifests from the Wallabies level. From the Wallabies we tend to view, gauge and recruit off that floored view point (benchmark and entrenched beliefs) that the Wallabies coaches are elite. Thus the institutionalised view that its too hard to replace them. But the evidence is becoming apparent that the Super Rugby level coaches and assistance are in fact able to get better results from lesser resources and players.

IMHO, replacing the Wallabies coaching team with some solid coaches who can implement (coach) the simple fundamentals in to the Wallabies game plan would be a massive step forward right now. They don't need to be as credentialed and experienced as we all misguidedly believe. We forget the Cheika and Co are not exactly the cream of the crop, and TGC fell in to the job conveniently.

One observation I will put forward is that what seems to be missing is a willingness to use the basic fundamentals in the game as the key tools. Rather they seem to be wanting to be clever, try outsmart or run the miracle or brave plays and its burning them constantly. Jake White methodology at the Brumbies was not the most thrilling with his "simple fundamentals done well" policy but its a damn good platform to work from and it got results.

The "give" for me that Cheika doesn't get the "fundamentals" is that he trots out the "we scored the same amount of tries or more" when we lose. TBH, who give a f#@&! I don't care about the method, rather the total. The Bokke didn't care either and kicked there way to a win.

This attitude in itself also reinforces my view that Cheika has lost what his objective and scope really is. His ego wants to solve all of the Aussie rugby's problems single handedly while he reins high on this thrown. RA are desperately feeding this fantasy willingly to the game detriment. All while its eagerly supported by the old boys club who are part of the problem and wont give up their place at the troff.

 

[Up the Guts]

Its intriguing to consider that what can be done at Super Rugby level seem unable to be replicated at the Wallabies level. The Wallabies seem to of a lower standard in comparison to what Super Rugby teams and coaches are producing. We may have a coaching deficiency, but the Super Rugby coaches appear to be able to do what the Wallabies coaching team individually and as a collective; and with arguable more resources and more talent, are unable to do.

Agree with this completely, from a NSW perspective Cron and Gibson were able to take a team deficient in a number of areas all the way to the semi-finals this year by building a game plan around their strengths. The Wallabies game plan of late doesn't seem in anyway tailored to the strengths/weaknesses of the playing group.

 

[RugbyReg]

Who's the best goal kicker in Australia?

Ian Prior probably

 

[Juan Cote]

A reliable kicker isn't really required as Hooper passes up so many penalty goal opportunities. The Saffers were happy to kill the play knowing full well Hooper would opt for the low percentage option. The Saffers comfortably disrupted the Wallaby set piece and quashed any decent first phase attack.

All that possession under the Saffer poles and it yielded no points. Not the first time this has happened under Hooper's direction.

I did read in the press where both Cheika and Hooper said the game was an improvement from the week before - wtf? Does anyone think they believe that or is it more of the political ‘control the message’ type statement designed to not admitting there are serious problems everywhere you look?

 

[Derpus]

It also reflects badly on Cheika.
Pick a team who can implement your game plan.
Or use another game plan.
Don’t stick with what is not working then blame the players.

'Game plan' - does that involve a lineout? i hope not.

 

[Derpus]

With regards to the long cut outs - it did find space at times, but surely the plan is to throw it when on, not just carte Blanche to do it whenever. When the Boks scored the first try, the commentators kept talking about Beale spotting the space and Dyantyi coming from nowhere but from what I could see the Boks had that side well covered and Dyantyi was given a mile of time to sprint through to the pass. (Maybe someone at the game can correct me if it looked different there).

So purely player error or inability of our coaching to teach guys to read the game or a combo of both?

It's a pointless tactic. Unless you force the defensive to compress, usually done through forward runners, there will never be space out wide.

And there wasn't, really. A few metres gained maybe. But the defence was always set and covering easily.

Beale should have seen that it wasnt working and stopped. Cheika should never have instructed them to make the play.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Ian Prior probably

Lord knows we know a 9 who can kick, pass, and tackle.

 

[wamberal]

Lord knows we know a 9 who can kick, pass, and tackle.

What? Three things? That's a bit of an ask these days.

 

[Rugrat]

I did read in the press where both Cheika and Hooper said the game was an improvement from the week before - wtf? Does anyone think they believe that or is it more of the political ‘control the message’ type statement designed to not admitting there are serious problems everywhere you look?[/quote]
It’s worse than political spin, they actually believe it!

 

[Rebels3]

Well technically they were improved on the previous game. Only problem previous game was a turd the current game was a turd rolled in glitter

 

[dru]

Well technically they were improved on the previous game. Only problem previous game was a turd the current game was a turd rolled in glitter

Improvement that leads to “abject” seems not much to boast about. I reckon they understand though and that pressure that should have been building for years finally is.

 

[KevinO]

So I finally took the time to back through the record books, Michael Hooper has captained the Wallabies on 19 occasions that I can find. Of those 19 games the Wallabies have won 7, that a massive winning ratio of 36.84%.

I don't understand how he is captain? I don't understand his decision making as captain? it's international rugby, you take the points when the opportunity presents and keep the scoreboard ticking over. And why on earth did he get a 5 year deal?

 

[kiap]

So I finally took the time to back through the record books, Michael Hooper has captained the Wallabies on 19 occasions that I can find. Of those 19 games the Wallabies have won 7, that a massive winning ratio of 36.84%.

I don't understand how he is captain? I don't understand his decision making as captain? it's international rugby, you take the points when the opportunity presents and keep the scoreboard ticking over. And why on earth did he get a 5 year deal?

You are spot on to ask these questions, KevinO. And it is utter administrative incompetence.

No shortage of people called it out at the time. Regardless of whether you believe he is worth $1.2m per year (some might, I don't) signing him to five years was way over the top.

Three years maximum per deal. Don't like it? - Then don't take it. For mine, I would have been only too happy to see this player go overseas to chase all the money his heart desires.

There is no shortage of talent that can take his place in Australia.

 

[Joe Blow]

Cheikas problem is his die for his “mates” no matter what mantra. He believes that he will receive their absolute best in return.
No matter how poorly Grey has performed as the defence coach he has refused to consider a change. His reliance on certain other players and coaches has been similar and often repeated. It is a solid mantra to have in regard to family and friends in life but it can be treacherous in a professional environment.
Many, including me, have stated that the support coaches should be replaced in order for Cheika to stay. That is wrong. They should have been replaced long ago and/or have been much more closely scrutinised prior to being taken on. It is Cheika who must go because it has been he who has chosen and maintained his support coaches and it has been he who has been the sole selector of his squads and test sides. He has thrown himself under the bus by being unwilling to demand more from his other coaches and the players and because he has not been prepared to adapt and make changes in his setup when they were required.
Now at the death he is making some changes in the setup but they are not good ones. Beale to 10 for example.
Now it is time to see if Castle is up to it.

 

[wamberal]

Castle is not fully equipped to deal with this situation. She just does not have the background in our game, obviously she has never played it, she grew up in a rugby league household, I would guess that apart from the usual New Zealander interest in the ABs she has had very little interest in it. She has not built up a network of mates in the game.


This is not her fault. But it is a huge weakness when it comes to making critical decisions like these.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Who's the best goal kicker in Australia?

Ian Prior?

 

[wamberal]

Ian Prior?

That's two votes for Prior.

 

[Juan Cote]

Perhaps RC’s lack of allegiance or connection to rugby insiders might be a positive so long as she can develop a strategy that is deliverable and backed by the board. This strategy must focus on new thinking and not include ‘good rugby men’ such as Gregan, Eales, Kafer et al.

I seriously doubt there is the intellect or courage for real reform at the RA and that is more of an echo chamber where status quo is the easiest course of action. And anyway, the mess she left at the Bulldogs suggests strategy mightn’t be a strong suit.

Of course the problems just don’t exist at the Wallaby level, our U/20’s haven’t made the top 4 of their World Cup since 2010; essentially a whole generation of players haven’t been up to the required standard. The Reds and the Tahs success are outliers and have not translated to continued excellence or consistency or performance at a Wallaby level.

The current crop of players, and those coming through the various academies ( or whatever stupid term they call them these days) aren’t worth more resources being directed at them. History has proven there is not the collective motivation for them to improve.

Change coaching staff (not saying we shouldn’t) , players, Playing kit, travel schedules, whatever you want, it won’t solve the structural decay our game is facing. Australian rugby has been on a no talent death march for a decade.

We must start looking at our U/15’s and U/16’s to get their development right as the top down approach has lead us to this point.

 

[Derpus]

We must start looking at our U/15’s and U/16’s to get their development right as the top down approach has lead us to this point.

Castle seems to be making some good moves to fix the fundamentals. She's attempting to centralise and she's also made some moves to secure younger athletes.

Those positive moves are somewhat offset by the giant contract thrown at Hooper and the mishandling of the Folau bidness. But eh, no ones perfect.

If she can redirect resources to youth development and centralise, and that's all she achieves, then i'm fine with that.

 

[vidiot]

Slightly more brutal assessment of the wallabies - including both their play and player depth - on rugbypass:

Over half of the current Wallabies team would have a market value of approximately $15,000-$30,000 in New Zealand, the world’s number one team, equivalent to what they would make for a Mitre 10 Cup team. A few would be lucky to even make that cut.

Rugby Australia can afford to let eighty percent of these players walk to take up overseas contracts and continue to get the same results they are getting now. Should they do this? It is extreme but this is a dire situation, freeing up cash that can be deployed for a rebuild.

Here is the reality check for Australia’s professional players – when you are marginally better than Fiji as a team, you shouldn’t be getting paid anywhere near six figures. The Fijian national players sure don’t.

The only two worth paying big contracts for are David Pocock, who continues to be the only world-class player in the team, and Israel Folau, who has world-class athleticism and could be shaped into a better player with coaching.

Everyone else is expendable. Everyone else.

There is also a ruthless look at the way they are playing in terms of structure, organisation and efficiency.