Tier 3.5 - An Alternative NRC

[p.Tah]

Edit by Mods.
We have moved posts from several threads to create this one.

Some Sydney and Brisbane Clubs Plan To Take on The NRC.
http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-unio.ional-rugby-championship-20161020-gs70cw.html

Simon Poidevin tells ARU to take former players' letter seriously or risk 'tears'
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u.-seriously-or-risk-tears-20161019-gs5wp1.html

NF-J indicates 'a revolt' could be on the cards:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-19/nick-farr-jones-warns-of-revolt-in-club-rugby-union/7947490

This could be big and rather polarising. Discussion has already sprung up across several threads.


Let's try and keep the dialogue contained in one thread, and within forum rules, particularly these two:

Rules of the forum
<snip>

6. Play the ball not the man. Personal comments will be deleted and you'll get a card or ban.
This also applies to comments about players, coaches, Referees and other public figures. Feel free to criticise their play and decisions with reasoning, but not slander them as a person.
"Like last weekend, he's always seagulling and it gives me the shits" is OK.
"He's a f*ckwit who'll never amount to anything" is not.
Only a complete knob jockey resorts to personal insults anyway.

<snip>

10. If another poster does not understand or agree with your point after 3 or 4 attempts, LET IT GO, WALK AWAY. It is very boring for other posters when the thread gets hijacked by two people having an argument. Let this be your guide:

In today's Australian (behind paywall) there is an article on the lack of grassroots funding by ARU. A letter yet to be given to the ARU (but obviously given to a journalist) signed by "Bob Dwyer, Alan Jones, Nick Farr-Jones, Simon Poidevin, Peter Grigg, Anthony Herbert, Mark McBain, Barry Honan, John Ballesty, Peter Falk, Brett Papworth and at least two dozen other former Wallabies."
They are calling for a summit with ARU to voice their concern that grassroots rugby receives $2.4m/year which is claimed to be a lower percentage of earnings compared to any other major Union. Pulver is keen to attend the summit but refutes the $2.4m claim in the letter and says it's closer to $9.2m before State Union contributions are included.

Interesting to see how this pans out.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...t/news-story/d2dfa57b805f4d1dffe46f5cb63a5d14

 

[Rugbynutter39]

In today's Australian (behind paywall) there is an article on the lack of grassroots funding by ARU. A letter yet to be given to the ARU (but obviously given to a journalist) signed by "Bob Dwyer, Alan Jones, Nick Farr-Jones, Simon Poidevin, Peter Grigg, Anthony Herbert, Mark McBain, Barry Honan, John Ballesty, Peter Falk, Brett Papworth and at least two dozen other former Wallabies."
They are calling for a summit with ARU to voice their concern that grassroots rugby receives $2.4m/year which is claimed to be a lower percentage of earnings compared to any other major Union. Pulver is keen to attend the summit but refutes the $2.4m claim in the letter and says it's closer to $9.2m before State Union contributions are included.

Interesting to see how this pans out.

At least people are getting vocal that things need to change and having the debate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rugbynutter39]

My problem with the open letter is they are just focusing on one part of the problem of grassroots- funding. Needs a much more strategic approach to look at all the issues (bigger picture view).

I propose we start a new thread called "Agenda for ARU Grassroots summit"
(with agenda items us on here need to see).

As lots of reasons rugby at grassroots struggling....need to get a more strategic approach to get a strategic plan that can be executed which makes rugby where it could be in this country.

 

[Slim 293]

A letter yet to be given to the ARU (but obviously given to a journalist) signed by "Bob Dwyer, Alan Jones, Nick Farr-Jones, Simon Poidevin, Peter Grigg, Anthony Herbert, Mark McBain, Barry Honan, John Ballesty, Peter Falk, Brett Papworth and at least two dozen other former Wallabies."

I assume this group proposes some kind of time machine that will take Australian rugby back to 1987?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I assume this group proposes some kind of time machine that will take Australian rugby back to 1987?

Yes not sure this group are the forward thinkers that could save our game...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[barbarian]

I'm actually getting a bit sick of Papworth et al whinging in the media.

And it's just about money. 'Look at the Annual Report!' 'We're being shafted!' 'We want more cash!' 'These corporate fat cats just don't get it!'.

I find it hard to take them seriously, when some are clearly speaking through self interest (not all, just some).

You know what I'd wish they would do? Pick one issue and campaign for it. I'll even give them the one they should pick - make it easier to become a rugby coach.

ARU should put up cash to subsidize the cost of training 1,000 new coaches. Do roving sessions in the suburbs, make it as easy as humanly possible to become accredited. Train everyone - senior players, club officials, head office staff, parents, teachers.

It will cost money, but everyone can see the tangible benefits it will bring to the game. Quality coaching makes a huge difference to the player experience at all levels, it will see our players get better and want to stay in the game for longer.

It's a genuine grassroots initiative, that will be great for the game. But I'm not sure Papworth really cares about that, to be honest.

All we hear is incessant wailing, with empty palms outstretched.
.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'm actually getting a bit sick of Papworth et al whinging in the media.

And it's just about money. 'Look at the Annual Report!' 'We're being shafted!' 'We want more cash!' 'These corporate fat cats just don't get it!'.

I find it hard to take them seriously, when some are clearly speaking through self interest (not all, just some).

You know what I'd wish they would do? Pick one issue and campaign for it. I'll even give them the one they should pick - make it easier to become a rugby coach.

ARU should put up cash to subsidize the cost of training 1,000 new coaches. Do roving sessions in the suburbs, make it as easy as humanly possible to become accredited. Train everyone - senior players, club officials, head office staff, parents, teachers.

It will cost money, but everyone can see the tangible benefits it will bring to the game. Quality coaching makes a huge difference to the player experience at all levels, it will see our players get better and want to stay in the game for longer.

It's a genuine grassroots initiative, that will be great for the game. But I'm not sure Papworth really cares about that, to be honest.

All we hear is incessant wailing, with empty palms outstretched.
.

If you're going to look to boost coaching numbers you should also look at doing something similar with referring.


Setting up some kind of club starter kit may also be worthwhile alongsidd bolstering coaching numbers.

 

[wamberal]

I have to stick up for Pappy. I have no idea of his motivation, other than that I suspect he actually loves the game.


He is, incidentally, the antithesis of the GPS Old Boy types so disliked by many in these parts.


Attended a State School (Epping Boys High School).


Grew up in the Eastwood District catchment.


Played for the Woods. Had a slight detour, of course, as many did in those days, to the other code.

But then moved heaven and earth to get back into Eastwood colours when his professional days were over.


To reiterate, it seems pretty clear to me, from what little I know of him, that he loves the game, and that is his motivation.

He does work pretty hard for the club. We could do with more like him, no matter what he says.

 

[I like to watch]

I assume this group proposes some kind of time machine that will take Australian rugby back to 1987?

That's a pretty savage sledge on a large group of people,all of whom have impressive achievements in the game.
please,tell me what they say,that warrants scorn from a nobody?

 

[Slim 293]

That's a pretty savage sledge on a large group of people,all of whom have impressive achievements in the game.
please,tell me what they say,that warrants scorn from a nobody?

Matt Burke?

 

[I like to watch]

I'm actually getting a bit sick of Papworth et al whinging in the media.

And it's just about money. 'Look at the Annual Report!' 'We're being shafted!' 'We want more cash!' 'These corporate fat cats just don't get it!'.

I find it hard to take them seriously, when some are clearly speaking through self interest (not all, just some).

You know what I'd wish they would do? Pick one issue and campaign for it. I'll even give them the one they should pick - make it easier to become a rugby coach.

ARU should put up cash to subsidize the cost of training 1,000 new coaches. Do roving sessions in the suburbs, make it as easy as humanly possible to become accredited. Train everyone - senior players, club officials, head office staff, parents, teachers.

It will cost money, but everyone can see the tangible benefits it will bring to the game. Quality coaching makes a huge difference to the player experience at all levels, it will see our players get better and want to stay in the game for longer.

It's a genuine grassroots initiative, that will be great for the game. But I'm not sure Papworth really cares about that, to be honest.

All we hear is incessant wailing, with empty palms outstretched.
.

I don't think Papworth's criticisms are all about a cash grab.
Most of what he says, is that the ARU is out of touch,and is run by people making a living out of the game,who only talk to,and take advice from,others who also make a living out of the game.

I think it's a good point.

When those with influence in the game,are all from the same background. There is no diversity of views, which is unhealthy in any business.

 

[barbarian]

ILTW - I'm probably a bit harsh on Papworth, that's true. But you must admit the fact that the ARU have stopped giving cash to Shute Shield clubs has been the catalyst for this whole crusade.

I struggle with his criticisms of the ARU because they seem too generic, and almost lazy. 'Fat cats who don't know the game'. 'Stuck in their ivory tower at St Leonards'. It's designed to provoke an emotive response, and I don't think it's productive at all.

As I've said many times, the whole torches and pitchforks approach does more harm than good in my eyes. There may be genuine questions about diversity of viewpoints, but when you go down the slander route (which he most certainly has) the core point, no matter how valid, is hard to take seriously.
.

 

[RugbyReg]

"Bob Dwyer, Alan Jones, Nick Farr-Jones, Simon Poidevin, Peter Grigg, Anthony Herbert, Mark McBain, Barry Honan, John Ballesty, Peter Falk, Brett Papworth and at least two dozen other former Wallabies."

Jones, Farr-Jones, Poidevin, Grigg, Herbert, McBain, Papworth and at least two dozen other Wallabies have just got together for a celebration of the 30th anniversary since our last Wallaby win at Eden Park.

I assume the letter to the ARU is written on a napkin and has wine stains on it.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I admire Pappy's passion for the game but his solutions are worse than the status quo IMHO. He seems to think (judging by previous comments) that going back to the pre-1995 days, when players mostly came from SS clubs, will magically transform the game in this country to some state of paradise.

Rubbish says I. His opinion is worth listening to, as are the others, but he's talking his book too. Let's not forget that.

 

[Lindommer]

He is, incidentally, the antithesis of the GPS Old Boy types so disliked by many in these parts. Attended a State School (Epping Boys High School).

Brett didn't dislike "GPS Old Boys types" enough to completely avoid them: he sent his young lads to Shore.

 

[Quick Hands]

As the relevant article is behind the paywall, there's been a little misrepresentation as to what Brett Papworth in particular has said.

People are entitled to disagree with what he says (and also with what any other signatory says). It's a bit concerning when people whose default position is unquestioning defence of the ARU mount personal attacks and question the motives of people that they don't agree with.

I don't necessarily agree with everything that Papworth says, but he has a fair few runs on the board; Australian Schoolboys from a CHS school, Wallaby and is now putting in the hard yards as the President of an amateur sporting club (and quite a big one at that).

I've made similar points about ARU spending on grass roots previously in comparison with other Tier 1 nations. Pulver has done some good things which I have acknowledged, but if he can't even acknowledge that the ARU spends less that its peers then I fear for the game.


Papworth insisted that the letter was voicing concerns that went way beyond Sydney’s Shute Shield or Brisbane’s Premier Rugby.
“It isn’t just club rugby,” Papworth said. “It’s investment at any level. I don’t care if it isn’t club rugby. It doesn’t affect us if they continue to give us nothing.
“We will still be putting corner flags out at TG Millner (Field) or wherever. It’s about the fact that across rugby nations and against other codes, we invest nothing. And they have no long-term vision and we’re under the hammer … the game is dying and blind Freddy can see it.”
Central to the letter is a table purportedly showing how much — or how little — the ARU spends on community rugby compared with other rugby countries, the NRL and the AFL.
“Not only does the ARU have the lowest percentage contribution compared to other national unions and domestic codes, it also provides the lowest total contribution compared to its peers, even Scotland.
“Our deep concern is the total imbalance between what is spent at the top of the game, both on players and administration, versus what is allocated to the grassroots. This is unsustainable and a total disgrace.”

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I parted ways with Brett when he wrote that ridiculous rant Rugby News, saying we should pull out of Super Rugby and other such rubbish. Again, I admire what he has done at Eastwood, but his view a little myopic IMHO.

 

[I like to watch]

Lindo, you do see the irony in you criticizing me for the same thing you are doing, right?

ALL costs of what they were charged were paid. My point is that you don't know what the full cost was. You only know what you were charged from above. Central admin, etc. this all costs money. That's why other sports tend to be more expensive, because they don't have a professional arm to subsidize the cost of this without you ever knowing.

So I can understand the quantum of these ARU subsidies.
What costs do the ARU incur with the fielding of say an under 13 team in the northern beaches?
Is it different to a similar age group in Bathurst,and if so,how?

 

[Quick Hands]

 

[Strewthcobber]

I've made similar points about ARU spending on grass roots previously in comparison with other Tier 1 nations. Pulver has done some good things which I have acknowledged, but if he can't even acknowledge that the ARU spends less that its peers then I fear for the game.

Should probably quote Pulver's response if that's the part you are worried about QH

But Pulver told The Australian last night that the figure cited in the letter, $2.4 million out of an overall budget of $85m — a 3 per cent fraction of the ARU’s budget compared with, say, England’s 15 per cent, £32m out of £208m — was wildly inaccurate.

“It says we spent $2.4m on club and community rugby … in fact, we spent $9.2m and that’s before the contributions of each of the state unions,” Pulver said.

Let's take him at his word for the moment and add in that state union contribution - we're at $12.5m or just about that 15% that England is spending......