The Wallabies Thread

[Strewthcobber]

Question: So when is it about 'the team', and when is it about the 'individual'?!
I am, of course referring to Israel Folau.
Should he have declared his on-going painful ankle injury, or should he have continued to play like an "average # 15" from any suburban or country club? After all, it was the 2015 RWC?

Strange post.

He just lost himself a high hundred thousand dollar contract in Japan because his coach presumably asked him to play injured.

The definition of putting the team above himself.

Or is your position that cheika didn't know the extent of his injury?

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[qwerty51]

It's a fair point but not Folau's fault. I think Cheika should take some blame for having blind confidence in him. I think Beale would've been the better fullback all game.

 

[wamberal]

It's a fair point but not Folau's fault. I think Cheika should take some blame for having blind confidence in him. I think Beale would've been the better fullback all game.

My guess is it was thought that the mere presence of Folau on the field was worth something. Kurtley would have been placed under huge pressure if he had been selected in the team in Izzy's place.


The right call, IMHO. We were not all that far from the money. Douglas' injury was the killer blow.

 

[Mr Doug]

Don't really follow this one. What do you mean by 'declare'? You know they have physios and scans and stuff, not like he was hiding it from the staff or anything.
.

I get your point, however, I assume that the final decision is up to the player when asked "are you ok to play"!

 

[Mr Doug]

My guess is it was thought that the mere presence of Folau on the field was worth something. Kurtley would have been placed under huge pressure if he had been selected in the team in Izzy's place.


The right call, IMHO. We were not all that far from the money. Douglas' injury was the killer blow.

I feel that was the understanding of many officials, and fans.
At this level, you are soon 'found out' if you are below par. IMO, Izzy was, and had been for some time.

 

[Viking]

I get your point, however, I assume that the final decision is up to the player when asked "are you ok to play"!

I doubt it. 9/10 players would say yes to that no matter what. A players mind-set should always want to play. IMO the call should always come from the coach - which is made by how the player performs in training and on the required fitness tests.

 

[USARugger]

If anyone in particular got found out during the Grand Final it was probably Kuridrani (defensively) - I don't really recall Folau being much of a liability during the GF.

 

[qwerty51]

It wasn't that he was a liability, Kurtley would've had a better impact.

 

[upthereds#!]

Anyone want to have a stab at a 31 man squad for the first test series 2016? Not picking anyone overseas ATM.

Hk (3): Moore, Tpn & Hanson
Prop (5): Slipper, Sio, Holmes, Smith & Taavao/Talakai
Lock(4): Simmons, Douglas, Skelton & Carter
6 (2) Fardy & Mccalman
7 (2) Hooper & Gill ---->> Sorry about Mcmahon, but cmon..its Gill
8 (2): Vaea & Pocock

9 (3): Phipps, Stirzaker & Frisby
10s (3): Foley, Lealiifano & To'omua
Centres (3) Beale Kerevi & Kuridrani
O/B (4) : Folau, tomane, Horne & Naivalu (who is eligible some time 2016)

--> Assuming Speight will be too busy with 7s

 

[Hawko]

Question: So when is it about 'the team', and when is it about the 'individual'?!
I am, of course referring to Israel Folau.
Should he have declared his on-going painful ankle injury, or should he have continued to play like an "average # 15" from any suburban or country club? After all, it was the 2015 RWC?

This comment implies that Folau deliberately held information back from Cheika and co. If you think the coaching team couldn't spot the truth you have a lesser view of their capabilities than me.

I am sure the coaching team knew exactly how it was and took a gamble. Me, I would have played Kurtley at FB from the off and had To'omua replace Gits. But once you go one way you can never know how the other would have turned out. Folau on the bench to play the last twenty when we were coming home with a wet sail might have made the difference. But it might not, too.

 

[Highlander35]

Making a lot of assumptions:

1. Sio
2. Moore
3. Holmes
4. Arnold
5. Simmons
6. Fardy
7. Hooper
8. Pocock
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Horne
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani
14. Naiyaravoro
15. Folau

16. Hanson
17. Sio
18. Smith
19. Skelton
20. McCalman
21. Stirzaker
22. Beale
23. Tomane

5 more full members of the squad.

24. Latu
25. Carter
26. Vaea
27. Lilo
28. Kerevi

And 5 more train on members of the squad to gain experience and provide backup.

29. Faulkner/Weeks/That new Tahs bloke
30. Jones/Coleman
31. Frisby
32. Debreczeni
33. Naivalu* (ineligible till October under current 3 year rules)

Chief among my assumptions are another fabulous season for Arnold, Douglas still being injured come the England series, no overseas players being selected, Naiyaravoro taking advantage of the get out clause in his Glasgow contract and a number of players, among them Gill, McMahon and Speight, switching to the Sevens series at some point to prep for the Olympics.

 

[TOCC]

This comment implies that Folau deliberately held information back from Cheika and co.

'If' he did hold back information it wouldn't be the first be the first time a player had held information back from the coaching staff, there are plenty of other cases where players have admitted they played through through pain or didn't tell the medical staff the full story because they were afraid of letting their team mates down.

In any case none of us have first hand knowledge, maybe in a 10 years when Cheika or Izzy release their biography we might know more.

 

[Marcelo]

Can Folau and Kuridrani play together at the centre and Beale at 15?

 

[dru]

I think we need some creativity outside Foley, so Beale 12 for me - depending on where the Waratahs play him.

Im OK with Folau at 13, again if the Waratahs are on board. That opens up some interest at 15.

I suspect it would also require a wide 7 in defense - but then Hooper is wide anyway.

 

[Marcelo]

I think we need some creativity outside Foley, so Beale 12 for me - depending on where the Waratahs play him.

Im OK with Folau at 13, again if the Waratahs are on board. That opens up some interest at 15.

I suspect it would also require a wide 7 in defense - but then Hooper is wide anyway.

Beale can play at 12 but that creates a problem for the last man. I think the Wallabies carrers of Giteau and mitchell are over after the WC.

And what about Kuridrani? Could he play at 14? That would be interesting.

10 Foley
11 Tomane/Horne
12 Beale
13 Folau
14 Kuridrani
15 ????

 

[Brumby Runner]

Looks like the choices in some spots will ensure ongoing controversy and debate amongst GAGR people. Sevens selections and injuries might (unfortunately) help to resolve some of the choices, but as a Wallaby supporter I certainly hope that Folau remains at 15 where we are very scarce for talent behind Beale.

With Douglas's expected and Skeltons probable unavailability, I would like to see Rory Arnold get a chance, but he will be battling for the spot against Carter, Jones and Coleman as I see it - assuming Simmons is the other lock.

10 will be interesting if Foley finds it hard to retain his form after his stint in Japan. And 12 and 13 could also go many ways, especially if Beale remains the bench cover. I'd like to see Kerevi come in and to get good game time. He is our future in the Centres, I believe, and needs to get in there and develop those aspects where he might be a bit deficient atm.

 

[qwerty51]

Why is Skelton probably unavailable?

 

[upthereds#!]

In regards to Bolters (Those who are NOT capped)



I predict
- Sam Talakai and Angus Taavao to be involved for TH development
- Arnold to get capped & Coleman to be involved for development
- Vaea to get capped and L.Timani to be involved for development

- Stirzaker & Frisby to BOTH get capped
- Debrazcini to be involved for development
- Kerevi to get capped and Hunt to be involved
- Naivalu to be involved for development towards eligibility

 

[I like to watch]

This comment implies that Folau deliberately held information back from Cheika and co. If you think the coaching team couldn't spot the truth you have a lesser view of their capabilities than me.

I am sure the coaching team knew exactly how it was and took a gamble. Me, I would have played Kurtley at FB from the off and had To'omua replace Gits. But once you go one way you can never know how the other would have turned out. Folau on the bench to play the last twenty when we were coming home with a wet sail might have made the difference. But it might not, too.

Yeah,it's puzzling that people can suggest IF "held back" info on his condition.
He was rested for a game,and it was on the news when he was lightly training.
The coaches knew the status,and decided a less fit IF was their best option.

 

[fatprop]

Question: So when is it about 'the team', and when is it about the 'individual'?!
I am, of course referring to Israel Folau.
Should he have declared his on-going painful ankle injury, or should he have continued to play like an "average # 15" from any suburban or country club? After all, it was the 2015 RWC?

Players are always playing injured, it isn't like the coaches were unaware that he was playing wounded.

20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, but in reality you take the punt