The Wallabies Thread

[dru]

Well Quade has notified Toulon he won't be taking up his 2nd year with them with the intention of heading back to Australia. So he's pretty applicable to any discussion 2016 and onwards.

As for your comment, "more a part of a team and its culture", what absolute rubbish. We get it. You dislike any player who was highly rated as a youngster. That's evidenced in your comments about Quade Cooper, Ben Daley, UJ Seuteni, Karmichael Hunt and others over the years.

There's been nothing to ever suggest he was not part of a team or the culture. That's just something you throw on because you don't like him in some way and are trying to justify it somehow.

More than that, all evidence from QC (Quade Cooper)'s last season at the Reds, injury notwithstanding, showed a man dedicated to getting out with the fans and doing team PR. In spite the crazy RG scenario of the time there was nothing negative from QC (Quade Cooper). We have seen the same with his time in Toulon where he consistently played the company line in spite provocation like fois gras.

Cheika did evrything he could to let QC (Quade Cooper) to play himself into form, and has not backed off his support ever since. No Im not supporting him, Im actively trying to encourage his return, or words to that effect.

QC (Quade Cooper) will rightly find it tough to unseat Foley. To'omua/CLl/QC (Quade Cooper) is or order I can live with. In fact he will need to break into the Reds even with the poor competition. He definitely needs a season of consistent playing. Reds would/will be an ideal place for that.

A QC (Quade Cooper) return can only be good for Aussie rugby.

 

[qaz]

Johnny Wilkinson, Dan Carter. Cos at least they still kick goals.

In Dan Carters professional career with the Crusaders and All Blacks, how many times do you reckon he played behind a beaten pack or a pack going backwards.. as a percentage? It would be less than 10% surely

 

[Train Without a Station]

I think there is a concern though. Judging by Cheika's track record, if he's trying to get Quade back, he's going to rush him back into the set up. He did the same with Beale, Mumm, Houston and others.

The fact is that prior to commencing with Toulon, he'd played something like 50% of all rugby he could have after the 2011 Rugby World Cup. I think he was available and not selected for less than 10 matches out of that. Much of that missed rugby was 2014/2015.

I think Cooper really would benefit from his season ending, having a proper off-season and having a full pre-season. The year round playing cycle only seems to compound injury issues further. Fools gold I believe TOCC calls it.

 

[Viking]

In Dan Carters professional career with the Crusaders and All Blacks, how many times do you reckon he played behind a beaten pack or a pack going backwards.. as a percentage? It would be less than 10% surely

How about Steven Larkham. Our test team was behind a beaten pack for many games in his test career.

It's difficult, but not impossible.

 

[Braveheart81]

How about Steven Larkham. Our test team was behind a beaten pack for many games in his test career.

It's difficult, but not impossible.

How many of those did we win though?

We also had the best pack we've had in the professional era for much of his test career.

 

[Viking]

I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make Seb.
If you are suggesting we might have won last week without Foley, who would have replaced him?
Foley with all his limitations was still the best option IMO.

I wasn't suggesting that. I was just attempting to point out that not all fly-halves suddenly become useless when the forward pack is beaten. Although Foley seems to fit that category, I agree he was still the best option for last week.

But I would like to point out I actually think QC (Quade Cooper) is better behind a beaten pack. The Reds certainly didn't win a super rugby title because their forwards dominated every one of their opponents - like the Tahs did on their super title.

Next year will be interesting.

 

[Viking]

How many of those did we win though?

We also had the best pack we've had in the professional era for much of his test career.

So what's the point? The flyhalf is useless behind a beaten pack. Might as well play some more backrowers there then if that's your attitude.

I actually think they become more important behind a beaten pack. They can get you out of trouble or in a good position with one decent kick.

 

[Braveheart81]

So what's the point? The flyhalf is useless behind a beaten pack. Might as well play some more backrowers there then if that's your attitude.

I actually think they become more important behind a beaten pack. They can get you out of trouble or in a good position with one decent kick.

You were suggesting that Larkham was the exception to the rule and played a lot of his career behind a beaten pack.

I disagree that was the case. He spent much of his career behind an excellent pack that was often on top.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Well Quade has notified Toulon he won't be taking up his 2nd year with them with the intention of heading back to Australia. So he's pretty applicable to any discussion 2016 and onwards.

As for your comment, "more a part of a team and its culture", what absolute rubbish. We get it. You dislike any player who was highly rated as a youngster. That's evidenced in your comments about Quade Cooper, Ben Daley, UJ Seuteni, Karmichael Hunt and others over the years.

There's been nothing to ever suggest he was not part of a team or the culture. That's just something you throw on because you don't like him in some way and are trying to justify it somehow.

Your post is farcical

QC (Quade Cooper) has not performed at any great level since 2011 (except for a game or 2)
Ben Daley has not been anything to write home about and in particular his scrummaging for the first 9 years of his tenure was considered poor. It was only in a couple of early games this year that his scrummaging improved
UJ was just poor (after being signed by the ARU as a South Australian junior, aged 15 - what did he ever do at the Reds
K Hunt - bloke should at the time have been dropped by the Reds because of the drug use and his plea of guilty. He brought unwanted pressure on the playing group and others and it was not pretty.
You forgot to mention James Horwill. My criticism of him was that he was not performing at the level he once did.

Your ridiculous comment that I don't like young talented footballers is absolute crap. To say that shows a level of you being unbalanced, and that's being generous. To me there is nothing better than a talented kid reaching his potential to play the best rugby he can.

Be under no illusion (but obviously you reside in fantasyland) that the team was run by a couple of players who thought more of themselves than the team and its culture. Horwill was not one of those, and I'll leave it to you to try and work it out. Shouldn't be too difficult, even for your biased thought processes

 

[Train Without a Station]

My points exactly.

How do you deduce that UJ "was just poor"? He never played a single Super Rugby game and in fact missed most of the period he was at the Reds due to injury. Apparently he's looked alright for Toulon though

Your comments weren't that Horwill wasn't performing at the level he once did. They were that he should be dropped because of that. Some of us more balanced observers noted that would be cutting of your nose to spite your face if there wasn't a superior alternative.

Ben Daley has been a great part of the Reds. He was a pretty good scrummager as part of the "tripod" in 2010. When the Reds focus on scrummaging dropped off, his did too but he was an integral member due to his work in tight on the field. Funnily enough, when the Reds scrum focus improved, so did Daley's scrummaging. Which you also said was poor only a few weeks ago (despite it being good when fit) and claimed he was behind Fa'agase in the pecking order now, despite being selected over Fa'agase and Fa'agase struggling in his first start this year against the Rebels.

But that's probably not really related to The Wallabies for 2016 and onwards.

Very interesting that you think Quade was "running the team". Goes against Link's comments about him being very tactically astute considering that the tactics and selections seemed to go well against anything that suited Quade.

 

[wamberal]

We have the world's best retriever of high kicks.


Imagine the havoc a good attacking box kick would create with Izzy running onto it. Even in the 22. Especially in the 22.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

As for being more demure, do you think that will mean he wears less sleeveless tops when he is out and about?

You can take the boy out of Tokaroa, but can you that the Tokaroa out of the boy?

That being said, it has been a very very long time since any public entitled spoilt brat behaviour from QC (Quade Cooper) and this has been with all the haters actively looking for the first sign of such to support their prejudices.

He has become a good ambassador for rugby from what I have seen and read about him, here on the forums and in the media. Teaming up with $BW's management team seems to have done him the world of good.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

QC (Quade Cooper) has not performed at any great level since 2011 (except for a game or 2)

thats a bit unfair, other then the English Test in 2013 he played very well against NZ in Dunedin, Italy, Ireland,Scotland, MoM against Wales. he only played in 6 or 7 test matches in 2013 and was brilliant in 5 of them, the other 2 he was quiet but certainly not playing poorly. i agree with everyone on here that i really hope he doesnt get rushed back in like Cheika did with Douglas, Mumm, Beale, Houston etc. he would really benefit from a full off-season and i think without a full season of super rugby to really build that confidence he wont be any better then he was last year

 

[Viking]

^^^^^^^
Compared to Foley he's pretty similar in the number of good performances at test level.

Foley catching up slowly in poor performances.

 

[Tip]

I don't get this "Cooper needs an off-season".

He's been playing miniscule minutes in a team who's owner has been trying to force him out since he took his contracted leave for Sydney 7's. Then there's the two extra "fitness camps" (7's series without playing many minutes) he's attended, I'd say that Quade would be pretty fresh! I doubt his body would have ever been in better shape.

Anyone that says QCneeds a full season of Soop Rugby is surely having a laff or just prejudiced.

We've still got 11 tests left this year, currently our #10 can't kick for touch let alone goal and can't put his outside backs in space.

Do we really want to see how low this ship can go and wait for 11months and 2 weeks to see if our #2-ranked-starting-flyhalf-as-of-last-year is any better at exploiting Chieka's ridiculously girthy attacking structure? (it's wide, thick and played with lots of depth, but it's useless at penetration...)

 

[Gillys_ghost]

^^^^^^^
Compared to Foley he's pretty similar in the number of good performances at test level.

Foley catching up slowly in poor performances.

i dunno, other then the English RWC pool match (which i regard as the best performance from an australian flyhalf since larkham) i dont recall any good performances. i remember alot of ok performances where foley didnt really do much more then distribute and run, without really putting a foot right or wrong, but i would hardly call it a good performance. a whole career of Quiet games with some shockers in between(other then the RWC england game). i think thats the difference. For foley his general standard of play is quiet and maybe slightly above average, but hes consistently at that level where hes playing ok, but doesnt have any dominant performances like Quade does.

 

[I like to watch]

Do we really want to see how low this ship can go and wait for 11months and 2 weeks to see if our #2-ranked-starting-flyhalf-as-of-last-year is any better at exploiting Chieka's ridiculously girthy attacking structure? (it's wide, thick and played with lots of depth, but it's useless at penetration.)

You are confused.
The Wallabies are the Gold Team, came second in RWC last year.
It's the reds, that I think you are referring to.
They play again the week after next.

 

[Chronicle]

How does a player who wasn't considered good enough for the games that mattered at the RWC and whose last important test saw him yellowed carded arguably costing his team any winning chance and who has been unable to gain a regular club position in a competition belittled in the SH as not anywhere near Super Rugby standard become a needed and wanted Test starter.
Higginbotham, Gill, Jones and others would wish Cheika was as forgiving and offering them multiple chances in green and gold that it appears Quade is getting.

 

[Viking]

i dunno, other then the English RWC pool match (which i regard as the best performance from an australian flyhalf since larkham) i dont recall any good performances. i remember alot of ok performances where foley didnt really do much more then distribute and run, without really putting a foot right or wrong, but i would hardly call it a good performance. a whole career of Quiet games with some shockers in between(other then the RWC england game). i think thats the difference. For foley his general standard of play is quiet and maybe slightly above average, but hes consistently at that level where hes playing ok, but doesnt have any dominant performances like Quade does.

But Quade doesn't really have that many dominate performances either. Not at Test level. His Dunedin game was very good and his EOYT was also good too. But I would say his EOYT is on par to Foley's RWC - Because in a RWC the pressure is higher. Foley's England game was better then Coopers Dunedin game. I liked Foley's Argentina game too.

It's certainly very very close IMO. Foley is definitely not the dominate performer he is made out to be - he is just the clear favourite at this point in time.

QC (Quade Cooper) still has 10 times more potential and only needs a season or two to find form. I doubt he's a lost cause like many made out.

 

[Viking]

How does a player who wasn't considered good enough for the games that mattered at the RWC and whose last important test saw him yellowed carded arguably costing his team any winning chance and who has been unable to gain a regular club position in a competition belittled in the SH as not anywhere near Super Rugby standard become a needed and wanted Test starter.
Higginbotham, Gill, Jones and others would wish Cheika was as forgiving and offering them multiple chances in green and gold that it appears Quade is getting.

Over-reaction. Foley's performances prior to England were just as bad. Don't you remember his poor Rugby Championship effort.

Cooper wasn't dropped or discarded. He was given his shot he just didn't rise to the performance Cheika wanted so he went with a different option. Foley was essentially last man standing. That's more to do with Cooper's form then anything else.

And most super rugby teams would be jumping to get his signature.