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Wallabies 2019 Thread

Discussion in 'Rugby Discussion' started by Lindommer, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. Strewthcobber Paul McLean (56)

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    Also for what it's worth, we've scored the same or more tries as the opposition in 14 out of 30 tests under Chieka

    edit, that we've lost!

    Ex NZ it's 13 out of 20
  2. Derpus Paul McLean (56)

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    1% better?
  3. Bobby Sands Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    We should send Bernard Foley to an NRL club and see how many games he gets to gauge the difference.

    While this is an insincere example, and the games are different, Bernard would never make it in that code due to the depth of talent & superior development of players in the NRL.

    Look at Perese’s comments on Reds training vs Broncos training.

    We as a sport have so much to learn & acquire from rugby league.
  4. Derpus Paul McLean (56)

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    I'd be more interested in taking a leaf out of AFLs books, from an administrative perspective.

    I'm not sure player comparisons mean much given how different the games are.

    Plenty of competent league players have failed to fire in Union or have taken a long time to become competent.
    Seb V likes this.
  5. Bobby Sands Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    Afl administration is so far ahead of rugby, I don’t think “a leaf” would cut it.

    I’ll leave the league comparison as a moot point, but I think the crop of players for the most part speak for themselves.
  6. Red Rose Frank Row (1)

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    Apologies for imposing on your forum as I am a POM in London, but the RWC excitement and my Aussie childhood ( 5 years in school in Sydney) leads me to want to appreciate the Aussie perspective a bit more. 1. Wallabies always peak for the RWC so how optimistic are you that the Green and Gold will go well? I fully appreciate how challenging (rubbish) your recent history has been, but maybe they can do quite well? 2. What do you think of furthering your experience abroad and of course I think of the English premiership? O"Connor had many issues, but maybe being abroad, outside of your bubble, in a no nonsense environment (do you know Steve diamond the Sale head coach?) has helped? Surely you would want Skelton in your squad - simply outstanding with Saracens - Euro champions and he pushed Itoje to no.6. Lost tons of weight and in an environment where they train super hard. Nic White has done well as well. I think many English players would benefit greatly from SR and playing in a Aussie/SA or NZ franchise. It would develop handling and attacking skills way beyond our negative mind set. Overall should further integration be encouraged?
    Bobby Sands likes this.
  7. formerflanker John Solomon (38)

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    Our perceived attacking ability is more honoured in our memory than in the practice of today's crop of players.
    Whereas we once marvelled at Mark Ella picking up a pass off his bootlaces, today we rarely see our 5/8 handle twice in the same movement. It's all about second man plays now which you guys do well.
    I've seen a lot of good handling skills on display in Europe. Don't come here expecting to learn much more.
    Seb V likes this.
  8. fatprop David Wilson (68)

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    Yep workrate is the issue, they all continually practise their skills, they all have them

    But having the want to be in the position to use those skills, well that is missing for ages when you compare say:

    • the effort the ABs backs demonstrate to create support options for a kick receiver
    • the effort the Bok pigs demonstrate to get up and get around that corner to either take the ball or clean out
    • the support lines from depth from the Fijians or French
    • the ability of the AB pigs to run under lines off 10th phase ball to create that space out wide
    etc etc
    formerflanker likes this.
  9. Derpus Paul McLean (56)

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    We still produce players with more natural attacking flair than our northern brethren, in my opinion. Guys like Beale, DMac etc, have no parallels up north.

    The real difference is the game has changed dramatically and there is a fraction of the space guys like Ella or even Larkham had to play with. We haven't adjusted well.

    Edit: also don't think spending a season or two in SR will suddenly bestow upon a player more skill or flair. I think it's more a cultural thing. Spending 3 hours every night in the yard or up the park flinging it about with your mates as a kid etc.
    Bobby Sands and formerflanker like this.
  10. formerflanker John Solomon (38)

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    A coach who agrees with you and develops an action plan to fix those problems would have a world-beating team on his hands.
  11. dru Paul McLean (56)

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    @Red Rose

    I spent 10 years in England, loved it. Mate the WBs have been poor and the Cheika lurch between extremes frustrating. It it has worked and the team is pulling together at the right time. We could go deep into the finals and a RWC isn’t impossible. But very unlikely. Or getting through the group stage is not an impossibility either, but unlikely. Keep an eye on the Bokke though.

    I’d rather our players stayed here or maybe a retirement run in Europe. If we are unlikely to be able to compete on a $ basis and will lose more and more.

    You can keep big Will, like him but excess to requirements - our locks are looking good. I wouldn’t mind White back though. Not for WBs perhaps but for Super.
  12. Red Rose Frank Row (1)

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    Thanks guys and I appreciate your comments. The downside with the English premiership is that the winter months can be very cold and wet and therefore a more forward based kicking game is natural. Add in that we have relegation and sides stop taking risks if they are in the bottom half. All of this inhibits the development of back play and skills. You are right about the mind set and getting away for 2 years playing on firm pitches you would think would be a good thing? Likewise I am sure your players have returned to Aus from spells in England stronger for it.

    And I remember watching Mark Ella at Twickers in 1984 en route to the Grand Slam - epic stuff!
    Dctarget likes this.
  13. Bobby Sands Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    I will reply later in more depth.

    But great first post.

  14. formerflanker John Solomon (38)

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    I flew to London to watch my son play 3 games for his semi-professional team.
    Two were cancelled due to ice, snow, and the roaring log fire in the club rooms.
    We had a ball.
  15. formerflanker John Solomon (38)

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    Update Red Rose. Prisoner Of Mother England is no longer used.
    A Pom is someone to enjoy banter with.
  16. Red Rose Frank Row (1)

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    Interesting perspective on training by Eddie Jones from dropped England scrum half Danny Care. I am sure all sides are pushing very hard but Jones is clearly a real task master.
    Eddie Jones was very clear from day one that this World Cup will be won by the fittest team. Going into the last tournament four years ago, we did a training camp in Denver that I thought was the worst thing ever. Little did I know that training under Eddie would be even more brutal. The sessions are shorter, but a lot sharper. A lot of the time it is just about survival.

    He was one of the first coaches to raise the intensity of training beyond what it would be in the game. A lot of time is spent on the analysis of metres per minute, how hard you are working and your explosive sprint distances, which is when you are running flat out. Sometimes you are doing 150-160% explosive sprints over what you would do in a match during a training session, which may only be 30-40 minutes. So when it comes to a game you know you can do it and you know you can recover from it.

    Unfortunately that has broken a few players. When you are training at that intensity and you throw in contact then injuries are inevitable. As a player you are always concerned. There were times when you just want to survive. It sounds awful but you just want to get through the session and hope it is not you who picks up the injury.

    Eddie was always very clear that we had to push the boundaries. Because England have such a large playing base then it may have been a case that they think well ‘if one breaks then there are another three or four who can come in’. Some countries don’t have that depth. We do at England. At times you got the feeling that the attitude was that if one goes down then there’ll always be another cab off the rank. If you want to make an omelette then you have to break some eggs. At times as a player, you realise you are a pawn. Everyone is dying to get in there because it is such an amazing experience to play for England and you know if you are the one who goes down then there will be someone else who can come in and take your spot.

    Eddie’s other big emphasis was on what he calls reform and reload, which is how quickly you get back onto your feet after you make a tackle. It is like a mental trigger that as soon as you have done one action or one impact – no matter whether it was good or bad – you need to be ready to do the next one. Eddie would show clips of New Zealand and how they make a tackle and got back in the game the next phase. We always knew that’s the gold standard and that we had to better than that to beat them.

    The goal was to be back on your feet within three seconds. If you manage it that’s a plus, if you don’t then that is a minus. You’ll then get an overall percentage based on what you do in a session. If you do get seven pluses and three minuses then you are on 70 per cent, which is not good enough. Eddie wants everyone over 90 per cent. There will be times in training or in games where people hold you down and he still wants you to fight your way out of that and get back on your feet.

    After every session, your scores in both attack and defence would be put up on a board and on TVs showing where you ranked and whether you were in the top half or the bottom half.

    I have been in that bottom half before and it is not a place you want to be. You certainly don’t want to finish last. That’s when you see players training in pink or gold bibs. That shows you are the person who has not worked hard enough off the floor and that you are letting the team down.

    It is like muscle memory, if you do that in training then you learn to do that in a Test match where it really counts. That’s why you see people like Maro Itoje racing up off the floor and running that back-against-the-grain line to score against Ireland. That’s also why Eddie is so good at what he does. He is on you every time to do it because there is that one time there might be a defender being slightly lazy and because you have worked harder than him you can break that tackle. That might be the opportunity that wins you the game.

    There is a psychological element to pushing that hard because he wants to see who wants it the most. There are times when you are involved in a session and you think this cannot get any worse and somehow it does. He always says to you “we don’t know how far you can go, you don’t know how far you can go so let’s just give it a crack and see.” He tells us, "I guarantee you’ll find a way to get that" and you do. As players you would obviously like it to be easier because you don’t enjoy that pain of getting flogged every day but you completely understand the need for it.

    There really is no hiding place or no shortcuts that you can take. When we were in Argentina a couple of years ago, we did urine tests every morning to see how hydrated you were. Eddie said if you are not hydrated enough, you won’t train. We all thought ‘oh yeah, that won’t happen’. One morning Jamal Ford-Robinson turned up quite dehydrated and he was banned from training. He just got told to stay in the hotel. Before, another coach would have let it slide, but Eddie will call you out and say you are letting the team down by not getting yourself as prepared as you should be to train.

    I know the boys have worked incredibly hard this summer and you saw how great they looked against Ireland. They are in amazing shape. All that hard work does have a pay-off. I’m sure they were all relieved to get on the plane to Japan, but I think the main feeling will be pride. Unfortunately I never got to experience getting on a plane to go to a World Cup after I got injured in one of the final warm-up games in 2011.

    Injury struck again two weeks ago. It all happened pretty quickly. One of the lads fell on my ankle on Wednesday, I went for a scan that afternoon, saw the specialist the next day and decided we would have the operation on the Monday. I have been told it is 6-8 weeks, but I am a pretty quick healer.

    Has the England door completely closed? I will be working my tail off to get back fit as soon as possible for Harlequins and if I am back fit and they needed me in the knockout stages then I would be there. I’m an eternal optimist. Look at Stephen Donald playing in the 2011 World Cup final. You never know.
    formerflanker likes this.
  17. Lindommer Andrew Slack (58)

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    Eddie's evolution from a statistics generator (and bore) to a position where he's worked out only two stats matter, time getting up and back in both defence and attack, has been fascinating. I've got to admit Eddie's certainly got the ability to learn from his mistakes and grow as a coach.
    dru and Seb V like this.
  18. wamberal Simon Poidevin (60)

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    This thing about "not wanting to be at the bottom of the list" bothers me a fair bit. A bit like the fuss about schools that finish at the bottom of the Naplan rankings.

    The point is, in any ranking somebody or some entity has to finish at the bottom. That fact alone does not mean that their performance is unsatisfactory.
  19. Jets Tony Shaw (54)

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    It's about driving to be the best you can. If you said anyone over 90% is ok then a lot of guys would hover around 90%. By setting it at the bottom half I'm sure there will be guys at 93% in the bottom half and they'll still work incredibly hard to be better.

    Also, unlike NAPLAN, these stats matter. If you have a constant line of 15 players it makes the game easier to win.
  20. fatprop David Wilson (68)

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    Eddie Jones wants workrate shock, I think Cheik's uses the Australian vernacular for the same issue "get off your arse"
    Derpus likes this.

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