Discussion in 'Rugby Discussion' started by A mutterer, Oct 19, 2019.
I think I saw a video of him packing down at 8, looked like he’d been in a good paddock.
His form last year was far better than anything we have seen from the hookers playing in Australia. He is only 27 and, you would think, easily brought back to Australia given he isn't a superstar.
I cannot remember what his off field issues were exactly (recall something about being drunk in his car the morning of training, perhaps related to some family issues) however he must have sorted them to be in the form he was in during the tests and rwc. Perhaps he just hit that realisation point last year and the form we saw is what he will bring to the table from now on? It is not like people are born superstars they have to build experience(on and off field) as well as physically and mentally to perform at a particular level.
Obviously I'd like to see him back however it may prove difficult given Covid as well as the Euro season.
I also wonder if they will be limited essentially to players whose competitions are not running this year/have already finished.
Wasn't Latu's main issue that he was prone to the frequent YC and odd RC?
He had loads of issues. He was a penalty magnet, got frequent cards and got suspended for his drinking offence. His throw struggled for ages too.
For whatever reason, he pulled it together for the RWC and was one of our best players. I guess it'd be a gamble, but bring him into the squad and Rennie can decide if he's up to it or not. He's clearly better than our current hookers when his head is right.
Is he really better than Fainga’a & Ulese though? Or did he just have a good tournament.
I’m not to bothered by the offield stuff if he’s left it behind him. We all did various levels of dumb shit when we were young (and sometimes not so young) and I take it as a given that most people on here who are plugging for him have an unwritten caveat that they are plugging for him on the basis he’s pulled his head in.
I guess my query is - what is his form like now? If he’s kept on playing like he did at the World Cup then yep, he would be a real asset to us. Absolutely on board with bring him back in.
But, for me the World Cup was by far the best and most consistent form of his career. I wouldn’t be picking him unless he’s continued to play at or near that level.
I dunno - maybe I am being unfair on him suspecting he wouldn’t be able to maintain his WC form. But it seems to me that the best thing a lot of these guys can do to improve the their standing in the pecking order in the eyes of many on here is to go OS.
All Black lock depth is looking very skinny. Good opportunity to bring home two second rowers and take an advantage. A 23 with some combination of LSL/Arnold/Philip/Skelton has some serious power.
All good points TSR.
IMO Ulese is yet to deliver on the hype. I had high hopes for FF but he too hasn't reached the level I thought he would have by now.
Latu was fantastic year. strong set piece, skillful and extremely dynamic. Such a shame to lose him as he comes good particularly given his age. I cannot recall the last time a hooker in Gold consistently played that well.
Absolutely understand the skepticism around how he has been playing. Looks like he only has 3 games for Stade, i believe the season has been pushed back further due to a bunch of covid cases. You are right, he could be a mess right now for all we know. Playing in France does have a reputation for susceptible players losing their way a bit.
The throwing by everyone this year has been atrocious. I cannot find the exact stats anywhere though. I have a feeling that rookie from the tahs may have the best throwing stats?
I would like him to come back to Oz, wish someone would get in his ear and steer him in the "right" direction. Reckon Thorne would get him to where he needs to be.
Your last point if fair for many but in Lati's case he was, by far, the best Hooker in Oz before he left.
I don't think they will bring him back partly because it might prove too difficult. Could be the case with Arnold/Skelton as well.
I think Samu is a lock in as he has been in Brisbane for a while and the Japan season is not happening. Others from Japan are McMahon, Gill, Lilo, Harris. I suspect they are all in Oz or holidaying somewhere.
Also I forgot about Morahan. He has been lighting up for the Bristol Bears the past few years. Would push for a start at 15 or a wing IMO. Also good bench option being able to cover 11/13/14/15
Skelton is the pick IMO. Assuming he'd be happy to do so.
Couple things to note. Rennie is on record lamenting the fitness of guys who play in France. Specifically with regard to bringing them back since they might not be in Test fitness shape. A lot of the guys who went overseas did so money but also because they have young families and wanted to reduce the travel/time spent away. It’s more than possible a few of them would even decline the opportunity if it meant 10 weeks away in a bubble. Also, when most of them signed their clubs understood they wouldn’t be playing Test rugby and were signed to win them matches when they lost their other Test players. You don’t want to piss off your club in France. Also COVID travels restrictions to and from Aus/France could get tricky and adding more delays and isolation.
This leads me to believe it’s probably more likely guys already in Aus who are supposed to be playing in Japan. Kerevi, McMahon etc.
Skelton and Arnold please - like Skelton for option but we also need a lock with strong line out capabilities
Rennie made the comment he wants to use this bonus selection to bring guys back into the fold that they want to reengage with SR down the track (I assume after current contracts, pre WC).
Arnold is the oldest of the Overseas locks at 30, thus least likely to play at the WC at 33.
I'd be going Skelton and Latu - strong players in areas of weakness.
Rodda will come back after this 1 season in Lyon most likely, but atm he wouldn't be bringing what I think we are missing, plus he pissed some RA people off big time so wouldn't waste 1 on him.
Japan based players (regardless of how their position is depth wise atm) are seriously short on training and game time. However, upside is that most (like Kerevi) are in Australia and wouldn't need to complete additional quarantine. But i think in this case the negative outweighs the positive.
Japanese based players are all required to report back to their club now. Some left earlier in the week, others will do so in the next day or two. Kerevi left a couple of days ago. So whoever you select will be based overseas
If players have to be in a bubble for 10 weeks are any international players going to be given a break from their club contract for that long? I assume they’ll need quarantine at the end of that. So almost 3 months not being available for their club.
Ah oky doky, thank you for clarifying.
This is t
Yeah, I saw Samu for example has literally just gone back to Japan. Depending on when the window is I'd say the Japanese Clubs won't be too co-operative. And I feel like we shouldn't be picking Samu anyway -- if he were playing in Australia he'd be Captaining my Wallabies, but he's not, he's made his choices, Petaia is our long term 13. I'd love to have him back, if it were up to me and he wanted to resign with the Reds I would stop the conversation there and give him whatever he wanted to do it. But I think delaying Petaia so we can temporally bring Kerevi back isn't the solution.
At Hooker Latu (or anyone -- not that we have any other options) is just a bandaid, even if we assume Latu is going to play at RWC form and that's very far from assured. Given his inconsistency and his discipline issues (both on and off the field). If we pick him we don't develop our other options. BPA played well against Ireland and is playing well now, and based on his throwing at the back end of this season I'm happy to put that down to losing two locks. FF has been the form Aussie Hooker in Super Rugby for at least the last 2 years (yet hasn't played any/much time at test level). I'm not sold on Uelelse because he's never done anything to justify his hype but we need to keep him coming along. And if we wanted/want to take on a project at Hooker there is always Andrew Ready.
Bringing back Latu isn't going to solve any of those issues, Latu is still going to be a roll of the dice every time he plays, we are still going to let BPA & FF languish, Ready is still going to have his issues. We need to use these picks to fill temporary gaps, I don't think our issues at Hooker is a temporary one we need to develop our Hooking stock and we don't do that by taking a risk on bringing back a guy who may or maynot be up to test rugby that we will then plumb time and energy into and maybe get no return from.
At lock I fully get it and I support it, we clearly have a temporary hole there, we have quality players who are in form playing overseas who can come in and fill that hole. Who is up for debate but I'd likely take Arnold. We had 2 Wallabies squad locks leave the Reds in the middle of the season right after losing probably our best two locks following the RWC, having been somewhat depleted before that. Having said that -- we still have Simmons - (basically) a 100 & 100 Test & Super lock who is in quite good form (sure it's not Whitelock & Retalik form but decent form), we have Phillip who's playing good football. We've got LSL who has been a quiet standout. Plus we have a number of young locks we can bring through to replace them.
The one position I think we could stand to bring someone back into might be fullback -- not sure who exactly you'd want to take, but on form Campbell is 'our best fullback' and he's only just a Super Rugby player. Banks and Maddocks have both failed to take a step up and really grab the position by the scruff of the neck. Campbell is inadvertently doing more to get himself selected than either of Banks & Maddocks. And DHP has zero form due to injury and had done nothing much before that.
At 15 the question is who would we bring back, I can't really answer that one, do we go for a Luke Morahan / Berrick Barnes (not sure on form).
Having said all of that we were largely *okay* without this exception. We've got plenty of props, too many back rowers, options at scrum half, no one better at flyhalf, a few quality options in the centers, and a number of wingers putting there hand up and we've got options at fullback if one of them put there hand up.
Slipper, Fainga'a, Alaalatoa, Arnold, Fardy, Samu, Hooper, Naisarani, McDermott, O'Connor, Koroibete, To'omua, Petaia, T.Wright, Banks/DHP
Sio, Uelese, Tupou, LSL, Wright, Wilson, White, Hodge
I am feeling a 6/2 split with that backline RebelYell.
Skelton over fardy.
Naisarani form is..concerning? Perhaps Wilson @ 6 with Samu at 8. Naisarani or Valetini on bench with Wright.
Bring Berrick back out of retirement? Maybe we should see if Chris Latham is available as well.
I don’t think he watches anyone other than the Reds, that includes the opposition to the Reds when they are on the field.
Campbell hasn’t even been the best fullback, that goes to Maddocks. Campbell has been the best fullback for the last 2/3 games. Maddocks still has the 2 best performances of a fullback all tournament. Plus (ino it was at wing) but it was only a month ago Campbell was dragged from the field for potentially the worst 40mins of a back all tournament. He’s a good young player but let’s cool our jets.
Ready as a project player at 27 (oldest of the starting hookers in SR) is a good idea lol
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