Wallabies 2020

[Lorenzo]

Putting different players on the paddock makes no difference when the coach doesn't take the defensive half of the game at all seriously.

During nathan Grey's tenure, the only teams in the 'big 10' to give away more points per test are Italy and argentina.

1. Nz: 16
2. England: 17
2. Ireland: 17
4. Wales: 19
5. Scotland: 21
7. SA: 22
7. France: 22
8. Aus: 25
9. Argentina: 29
10. Italy: 34

 

[Viking]

10-12 seems the biggest question (hooker too I guess).

12 Simone / Loloesio / Kata? - personally I really like how Simone has developed. He’s a real wallaby roughie in my eye.

So I’d be happy with a 10 Deegan 12 Simone combo.

I agree on Simone, really nice well-rounded game for a 12, strong running with speed and a decent passing game.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

Largely agree with Cyclo on the issue of kicking. In the modern AFL, long kicking is normally done on a kick-in from a behind with no defensive pressure; disposals under pressure are typically handpasses or flat laces out kicking to hit their team mate on the chest.

If we were to outsource, it could be a 70s or 80s centre half forward who looks like the 12th man (receding mullet) and could kick goals on the run from 60m out. Malcolm Blight springs to mind (he's also a former coach).

But jokes aside, and with all the gravitas that comes from my position in the peanut gallery, what about using ex-pat NFL punters like Sav Rocca as technical advisers? The ball is different, but they had to adapt from a Sherrin to a Wilson, so adapting to a Gilbert should be possible. More importantly, they had to do it under duress.

I'm trying not to get carried away with the whole John Muggleton - Les Kiss thing, but Australia's in-field kicking has been weak for a very long time. Saying guys like Hodge can kick is 60m is a red herring, I'd say pretty much anyone in the match day 22 can kick a football 60m (including the tight head prop). Being able to do it accurately, consistently, under pressure, and off both feet is another issue, and it should be a requisite for being paid to play at 10, 12, 13, and 15. It's a vital skill that has been holding the professional game back for so long.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It wouldn't shock me to see Hodge given some time at 10 again in the next 12 months or so, and kicking is a big part of that.

His boot is so much better than anyone else here.

I personally would be surprised if a new coach wanted to use Hodge at 10. His kicking action is laboured and would lead to a lot of charge down/turnovers imo. He doesn't seem to have any of the other skills particular to a No 10.

I think the future is probably Deegan and Harrison, though the Tahs will need to start Will at 10 and not Donaldson who I reckon is more a 15. In the meantime, if the younger players aren't up to scratch or need another year of Super under the belts, then Matt To'omua would be the best/most experienced going round (I wonder where he will play at the Rebels?) and I also reckon Irae Simone has the skills to work there at a pinch. Hegarty should also be in the equation.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I really don't understand why we don't utilise our halfback to clear from the base of the ruck. Half the other international team add 2 players to the back of the ruck, roll the ball back giving the halfback extra space. A simple strategy.

White has a big boot, and Genia has a good boot too. They could easily have a decent clearance.

Willy G won't be around unless called back under the Giteau rule which I think would be a mistake given his accelerating drop in form last year and this. But, on the other hand, Joe Powell also has a very good boot on him and is probably one of the more accurate kickers from the base of the ruck.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'm with Barbs and a few others in that I'm actually quite optimistic for the future. The schools and U/20's group look like a special generation and if say 20% of them make it to the top level the Wallabies will be in reasonable shape. The big thing is the coaching and game plan. With the playing group, especially in the forwards, I think things will be OK but if the patterns of play don't improve the same results will continue.

 

[Up the Guts]

Well, we're obviously going to be loading up on new/young guys next year which is a good thing because there's a lot of talent coming through. One thing I would like to see us do is pick a guy we think has the potential to be a long term player and give him a few tests to prove his worth. When you're making wholesale changes it's easy to shop around and struggle to build consistency.

Anyway, here are some names and categories I'd have for next year:

Class players to build a team around: AAA, Slipper, Sio, Rodda, Hooper, Petaia, Koroibete, Tupou, To'omua

Guys that I would expect to be given extended opportunities to cement a place: Valetini, Simone, Deegan, Banks, L. Wright, Samu

Smokies: Tom Wright, Harry Wilson, Matt Philip, Fraser McReight (keen NRC watchers, who else would you add to this list?)

 

[Brumby Runner]

Halfbacks is an interesting one.

Powell might have more time in Wallabies camp, but I’m not a massive fan, he is 25 so he isn’t exactly a rookie anymore, he should be ahead of where he is. Likewise with Jake Gordon. I expect both to be involved in the wallabies in 2020 but don’t think they’ll cement themselves as the starting half.

Tate McDermott is a player who interests me for 2020, greater potential then the above two, his strength is his running game, and his passing game is still pretty good but needs a bit of work, likewise his game control. Really exciting player to watch.

Those are the three who will be in contention before Nic White returns.

McDermott is an exciting player and may well be the one who rises to the top. His running game is definitely a strength.

Gordon also relies heavily on his running game and ability to back up a break, but I do think Mc Dermott will ultimately (and maybe shortly) surpass him.

Joe Powell has the best passing game of the three and his defense is immense if largely unrecognised. He also has the best, most accurate, kicking game of the three.

It will be interesting to see how they contest for the spot next year. I should also mention Isaac Fines as he should be in the conversation as well.

 

[RugbyReg]

Good call on Matt Philip. I'm a massive fan of his and would have had him in the squad this year.

I wonder if someone like Bryce Hegarty might get a year in the 10 jersey the same way that the likes of Nathan Spooner and Tim Wallace were used in the past - as a capable holding player until the next player is ready.

Toni Pulu is a good wing option, Darcy Swain and Harry Hockings will be there and there abouts around lock talk. Alex Mafi a strong contender at hooker, as will Damien Fitzpatrick and perhaps Anaru Rangi.

Tate McDermott should play tests next year. Perhaps we'll see more of HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes). Lachie Swinton a shot and does Jed Holloway ever step up?

 

[Brumby Runner]

If Super Rugby does go kaput - I don't see why we don't open up selections like the Bokkies.

Anyways, you can set aside any hopes of a drastic change in mentality or structure in development pathways. That's not going to happen in 4 years.

But it's already happening Derpus. The Schoolboys are now expanded to include any U18s whether at school or not. The U19s Super tournament is now underway leading to a pathway to the U20s Worlds the next year. And every Super team now has an Academy bringing potential players through to that level. There have been some notable changes over the past year or two, and I believe the results are already becoming obvious.

 

[cyclopath]

Those are the three who will be in contention before Nic White returns.

McDermott is an exciting player and may well be the one who rises to the top. His running game is definitely a strength.

Gordon also relies heavily on his running game and ability to back up a break, but I do think Mc Dermott will ultimately (and maybe shortly) surpass him.

Joe Powell has the best passing game of the three and his defense is immense if largely unrecognised. He also has the best, most accurate, kicking game of the three.

It will be interesting to see how they contest for the spot next year. I should also mention Isaac Fines as he should be in the conversation as well.

One difference is that all 3, for the most part, pass from the deck. First sign of sideways skipping should result in severe hypnosis rectification.

 

[Adam84]

Sure, use them if it helps. But we don't "need" that IP necessarily. I think kicking has atrophied from underuse in critical situations. All of our likely kickers of recent times have shown the ability to kick good distances for touch and tactically, but only at times, and never consistently. I firmly believe they would all be better if they were using the skill in games more frequently. Whatever help we can get, fine.

Failing to get touch on a penalty kick, or chewing off barely 20m when going for touch is absolutely criminal and that’s occurred a number of times this year at both Super Rugby and Test level, and I agree more use in games would help the experience and mental aspect to improve consistency. But I also think skill like kicking should be a reflection of effort and time dedicated in training during the week, months and years prior.

I feel kicking is an incredibly technical skillset and technical skill sets benefit from experts in coaching.

 

[cyclopath]

Failing to get touch on a penalty kick, or chewing off barely 20m when going for touch is absolutely criminal and that’s occurred a number of times this year at both Super Rugby and Test level, and I agree more use in games would help the experience and mental aspect to improve consistency. But I also think skill like kicking should be a reflection of effort and time dedicated in training during the week, months and years prior.

I feel kicking is an incredibly technical skillset and technical skill sets benefit from experts in coaching.

Im not disagreeing with you. But if they were doing it more in real pressure situations, it will help improve it, not just training.

 

[Brumby Runner]

10-12 seems the biggest question (hooker too I guess).

But no use making wallaby choices until you work out who plays where at super level.

Reds:

10 Lucas / Hegarty - Lucas apparently the front runner but I don’t think he’s shown enough there to lead a backline. Hegarty for mine.
12 JOC (James O'Connor) / Stewart- JOC (James O'Connor) favourite but really like what Stewart has done for Qld C

Waratahs:

10 Mason / Harrison
12 Beale / Foketi / Moeroa - Beale perhaps at 15, no idea about the new boy but Foketi has improved all season and particularly in NRC

Brumbies:

10 Loloesio / Kuenzle
12 Simone / Loloesio / Kata? - personally I really like how Simone has developed. He’s a real wallaby roughie in my eye.

Rebels:

10 Deegan / To'omua - Deegan would be my Wallaby ten at the moment.
12 To'omua / Meakes / Hodge

So I’d be happy with a 10 Deegan 12 Simone combo.

A really good look at the prospects that are here today Reg. Like you, I think Stewart has been very good at 12 and he must come into calculations. Simone has developed rather nicely at the Brumbies and is probably the most creative of the options at 12. But I can't see To'omua missing out on one of the spots at least for 2020, and most probably that will be at 12.

On form over the past couple of years, Andrew Deegan is a standout as far as the potential No 10s go. The combo at the Rebels might just be repeated in the Wallabies next year.

 

[Slim 293]

Just quickly having a look at the test capped players still around and it's a decent list, albeit short on locks and flyhalves:

Props - Sio, Slipper, Ala'alatoa, Tupou, Robertson, HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes)
Hookers - Fainga'a, Uelese, BPA
Locks - Rodda, Simmons, Philip
Backrow - Hooper, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Dempsey, Naisarani, Samu, Valetini, Jones, Wright, Hanigan

Scrumhalves - White, Powell, Gordon
Flyhalves - Foley (60+ caps), To'omua
Centres - JOC (James O'Connor), Kuridrani, Petaia
Wings/Fullbacks - Koroibete, Beale, Hodge, DHP, Banks, Speight, Maddocks


I do believe LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) needs to shift back to lock as we're adequately covered in the backrow, while being short on experienced locks.

 

[Viking]

Just quickly having a look at the test capped players still around and it's a decent list, albeit short on locks and flyhalves:

Props - Sio, Slipper, Ala'alatoa, Tupou, Robertson, HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes)
Hookers - Fainga'a, Uelese, BPA
Locks - Rodda, Simmons, Philip
Backrow - Hooper, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Dempsey, Naisarani, Samu, Valetini, Jones, Wright, Hanigan

Scrumhalves - White, Powell, Gordon
Flyhalves - Foley (60+ caps), To'omua
Centres - JOC (James O'Connor), Kuridrani, Petaia
Wings/Fullbacks - Koroibete, Beale, Hodge, DHP, Banks, Speight, Maddocks


I do believe LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) needs to shift back to lock as we're adequately covered in the backrow, while being short on experienced locks.

I thought Foley was heading to Japan.

I like LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) as a lock, not so much as a 6.

 

[Derpus]

But it's already happening Derpus. The Schoolboys are now expanded to include any U18s whether at school or not. The U19s Super tournament is now underway leading to a pathway to the U20s Worlds the next year. And every Super team now has an Academy bringing potential players through to that level. There have been some notable changes over the past year or two, and I believe the results are already becoming obvious.

Well, i hope it all comes to something.

 

[Slim 293]

I thought Foley was heading to Japan.

He is, but still eligible for the Wallabies..........

 

[Derpus]

I thought Foley was heading to Japan.

I like LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) as a lock, not so much as a 6.

He can be selected from overseas - not that i think he will or should.

I think that Wales match will have broken his spirit.

 

[RedsHappy]

Im not disagreeing with you. But if they were doing it more in real pressure situations, it will help improve it, not just training.

How many times in years gone by on GAGR have we rightly bemoaned the awful state of elite Australian rugby kicking skill both at place and from hand? Dozens, hundreds of times?

Regarding this negative condition a dark and deeply concerning fact must be this: M Byrne, lauded for years by the ABs in general and McCaw and Carter in particular as a superb kicking and skills coach with the ABs, came to Australia to undertake a similar high-profile role as part of the Wallaby and national coaching infrastructure.

Yet it is manifest that years after the took on that Australia-based role, there has been zero tangible, evident improvement in core Wallaby skills with kicking in particular languishing roughly where it's been for well over a decade, namely as a c. 4/10 Wallaby key skill where we consistently pay large prices for it remaining that way.

Here I am not necessarily having a go at Byrne; rather the question must be asked with some conviction and urgent concern, why has Byrne been able to make so little of an impact at elite levels here?