Wallabies stuff

[Lee Grant]

Please use this thread for general stuff about the Wallabies this year so we don't create a thread for every little thing. Before starting a new thread think of using this one first and use your own discretion.

This from FoxSports:
Queensland Reds coach Ewen McKenzie warns Wallabies players of an unprecedented workload in 2012

Jim Morton AAP February 01, 2012 4:06PM


A prolonged 2012 Super competition, with four mid-year Tests wedged in the middle, and a heavier travel burden in the new four-team Rugby Championship will test Wallabies like never before.

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The jam-packed schedule could mean Australia's leading stars play a maximum 36 matches - three more than what Wallabies ironman Will Genia gallantly soldiered through a World Cup-boosted 2011.​

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"This is the most difficult season for a Wallaby that I've seen," said Queensland Reds coach McKenzie. "You look at the calendar and it's tough, really tough."


For the first time, the new June international window will put a halt to the Super Rugby season for four weeks as the Wallabies immediately play a mid-week Test against Scotland before a three-match series against Wales.
Test players will then return to their Super franchises for the final three rounds of the competition before a three-week play-off series starts on July 20.

The rebadged Tri Nations, the Rugby Championship, which now also features Argentina, will kick off with the Wallabies playing the All Blacks on August 18 - a fortnight after the Super final.

With a third Bledisloe Test and the regular spring tour in Europe to follow, key Wallabies like Genia, ball scavenger David Pocock, backline star James O'Connor and captain James Horwill must be braced for a gruelling workload.

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Former prop McKenzie, who started his 51-Test career in 1990 before the game went professional, stressed it would be impossible for the leading lights to play at top capacity throughout a 10-month playing season.

"It's not going to happen," he said.
"You have to manage the players in that space.
"They will tell you they are willing but in the end they can only front so many times."

Resting and rotation is set to become more of a norm at the Reds and the NSW Waratahs, where more than two-thirds of Robbie Deans' Test players are based.

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As one has mentioned before: Wallabies players will have to be rested in 2012 because a couple of international series are inserted into Super Rugby - just like they have to do in Europe for their Autumn Tests and 6N (and the Heineken Cup, for that matter.) EPS members of Super teams should be treated as though they are regular players and not need the excuse of injuries to others to get on the park.

Spread the work earlier.

 

[MrTimms]

EPS members of Super teams should be treated as though they are regular players and not need the excuse of injuries to others to get on the park.

Spread the work earlier.

Totally agree, it seems ludicrous that they have reduced squad size and increased matches in the same year. The EPS boys, and the academy, should be more accessible not less.

 

[Hawko]

The key problem with this is that Deans, by his words and his actions, does not believe in rotation or resting. He has said often before that he likes his Wallabies to go back and play club rugby so that they don't neglect their roots, which is all well and good but does not take into consideration that you can't be at your explosive best for 40 matches a year. He has never coached in the northern hemisphere, so has no experience of using a whole squad rather than a team of 15. His actions last year in over-playing Genia till he lost his creative spark were part of the reason we did so poorly in the WC. Anyone who thinks Burgess is such a poor player that he has to be hidden on the bench has little idea of how to use a squad properly. If I was to cite all the times he didn't use the bench well it would take paragraphs. If as a bench player you get more than ten minutes then it probably means that the player you are replacing has a broken leg. And don't tell me Deans will learn from the past. He has never shown anything other than lip service for using the bench. Ergo the wallabies are not going to get the rest they need to perform at their best.

Of the Super squads, Link has done it best (and got slagged off by the supporters for doing so) but he played Genia and Cooper in all matches I think, which in my opinion contributed to their poor performance in the WC. Foley has made all the right noises about using the whole squad but talk is cheap at this time of the year. White is also a newby, as is the Rebels coach. The Force seemed to do better but that comment is made from a distance and they have less wallabies.

Actions will speak louder than words.

 

[Garry Owen]

wouldn't it be great if Links words came from the mouth of our national coach?

 

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

Agreed Hawko, don't know if i'd go as far as to say that it was the sole reason for the WC however it would have been nice to see Burgess come on with 20 minutes to go.

Is there split rounds in Super Rugby this year like in the League?

 

[Brisbok]

His actions last year in over-playing Genia till he lost his creative spark were part of the reason we did so poorly in the WC. .

In defence of Deans on this one point only, Genia played pretty much every minute of the Reds' Super Rugby campaign as well. I don't seem to remember Prior getting much or any game time at halfback last year. So perhaps Link will need to look at the possibility of giving him a rest towards the end of games that are pretty much in the bag this year. Thoughts?

 

[Brisbok]

...the reason I say that is because we have similar issues in South Africa whereby the Super Rugby coaches choose to play their players into the ground so that it then becomes the responsibility of the national coach to 'rest' the players. Or even worse, the players pick up niggling injuries largely as a result of playing too many Super Rugby games and then they are unavailable for the National team.

Surely this should be the other way around? Granted, there is no need to play the best players every minute of every test either.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Where is the players' association?

The ARU is like Chairman Mao announcing another ludicrous 5 year plan. Everyone else is fucked while they retreat to a luxurious oblivion, counting all the money.

They may want to, but no Super coach will rest a test player if they are struggling to make the finals. Fear of losing their jobs and the financial pressure on underperforming teams will be a priority over players welfare.

And Deans won't rest anyone. He will have 2 weeks to mould his team, many of whom have been playing out of position for 20 weeks. It is a certain bet that he won't risk a 2011 Samoan debacle this year which will mean even more work for the elite players.

JON is tough and powerful so the players will need strong representatives.

 

[suckerforred]

You never know - Deans might select players in their positions, and then also use his bench. And there goes that mob of pigs overhead again.......

 

[Inside Shoulder]

You never know - Deans might select players in their positions, and then also use his bench. And there goes that mob of pigs overhead again.......

As my kids say to my wife "what are you smoking?"

 

[Bardon]

Over here rotation is just a fact of life. The IRFU which centrally contracts the players has it written into the contracts of players that those in the Ireland squad can only play a certain number of games each year. This not only keeps the players fresh but allows new talent to gain experience start at Pro12 level earlier. Without this policy I doubt that Peter O'Mahony, Fergus McFadden or Dave Kearney would have gained the necessary experience to be considered for selection for Sunday.
Then we'd be relying on the old warhorses to fill in instead of bringing talent through.

Not saying it's a perfect system here as at the senior international level there could definitely be more rotation as there is a dept of young talent that needs to start getting international experience. Just don't mention the front row where it's basically the first choice 3 then a huge chasm to the alternatives. But at least in most positions there are plenty of options if Deccie chose to be a little less conservative in his selections.

 

[Lee Grant]

Bardon,

The players are also centrally contracted in Oz and they also have a limit of games they can play by agreement with their players association RUPA.

What Oz has not had is the playing schedule that Euro players have. But this year, for the first time we will have Super Rugby going into 4 inbound tests against Scotland and Wales (one test being on Tuesday and another the following Saturday**), back to Super Rugby, 3 weeks of Super finals - a one week break - then 6 4N tests against NZ, Argentina and the Boks. This happens between the end of February and the start of October. Of course, if a player's team does not play in a Super finals weekend they get more than one week's rest in this period.

Most of the folks in the forum know this but the general rugby follower wouldn't, and they will be a little surprised this year when their Super coaches are putting out teams that don't have all the best players in them because they need a rest.



** The weekend before the Scotland test on the Tuesday there will be Super matches, but the Reds and the Force have byes. Deans said therefore that the Wallabies for the Scotland game will be principally from the Reds and the Force. That wouldn't happen in Ireland.

 

[luikang]

Question.

Rugby players are professionals. Which means its their job and they get paid for it. Same as every other person. So ain't it fair that there is no excuse for them to play every game?

 

[Godfrey]

No, resources aren't expended recklessly just because something is a job.

 

[suckerforred]

Question.

Rugby players are professionals. Which means its their job and they get paid for it. Same as every other person. So ain't it fair that there is no excuse for them to play every game?

There is burnout in a lot of jobs. Some more then others. I wouild say that Rugby is one of those that would be in the higher bracket. Professional sports is probably on of the last careers that are truely physical. Labourers generally have to change their careers after a few years because their body can't hold up. Would expect rugby players to be then same. If resting will extend their careers, don't see a problem with it.

Having read a lot of bios and histories of late I was actually suprised of the number of players that retired in the amatur age because they were 'just not enjoying their rugby' anymore. The only difference I can see in the professional era is that there are more options available to keep that 'interest' up and there are few clashes between rugby and their 'real' jobs. If any of them have one.

 

[Dan54]

Interesting hearing Grant Fox talk a couple of years back, and he was saying that the reckoning is that playing a rugby test is comparable to running a marathon, so when you think of that top Marathoners only run 2-3 marathons a year, they can run more, but not with good times. I think somewhat along same lines, although we can say Rugby players are professional etc, they can play almost every week, just not to a high standard. Not many professional in any level perform at peak performance constantly. Mentally as well as physically I think it is almost impossible.

 

[Forcefield]

Super Rugby teams don't have the depth to rest players- not in Australia anyway. When players get to the Wallabies there is a bit of scope for player rotation without losing too much on the park. There are a couple of positions where we don't have the depth in the Wallabies either. Particularly 7 and 9. But when injuries come in it tends to bugger that up a bit. Hopefully we'll have more depth this year than previous years what with Melbourne and the bunch of promising young players going around who are just about ready to step up like Kane Douglas, Liam Gill, Nathan Charles, Nic White, etc. And more rotation with the Wallabies can happen. We can afford to rotate a bit against Wales and maybe Argentina at home.

 

[Bardon]

I think at international level one of the big stumbling blocks this year for rotation will be the Deans will be so worried about losing tests Australia are expected to win that he'll be less likely to rotate outside the instances Lee mentioned where it's more enforced changes due to selection having to come from 2 teams.

 

[suckerforred]

I think at international level one of the big stumbling blocks this year for rotation will be the Deans will be so worried about losing tests Australia are expected to win that he'll be less likely to rotate outside the instances Lee mentioned where it's more enforced changes due to selection having to come from 2 teams.

Although he has been credited with the statement that the side that will face Scotland will be mainly be the Reds and Force, I wonder if this will really be the case. IMO you will probably find that those players from outside these two teams who are shoe ins for their positions will possibly be rested. At least that is what I would like to see. But then again I put the Wallabies above just about all else.

I am of course also assuming that Deans may have learned his lesson.

Do Boks & ABs ahve test at this time or is just us the lucky ones?

 

[Badger]

Do Boks & ABs ahve test at this time or is just us the lucky ones?

The ABs are scheduled to play Ireland in a three Test series on 9/16/23 June while the Boks are set to play England on the same dates.

So it looks like the Wallabies are the only side to play an extra mid week Test beforehand during the Super Rugby break.