Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[qwerty51]

I think one of the greatest myths of the modern game is matches "open up" in the 4th quarter, the opposite happens. Some statistics in Super Rugby this year, more points were scored in 52 1st halves compared to 38 2nd halves. I think as fatigue happens the attack suffers rather than the defence which is based around attitude, you'll make the tackle even if you're bloody tired because you know your team depends on it but you might be slower getting to the ruck if you're fatigued.

 

[Viking]

I'm going to ask this one again because no-one was able to provide a satisfactory answer last time I asked it..

I think if a 'weak' lineout is to cost us the game it's more likely to be at the end of the game than the start of it..so if we agree that Hooper and Pocock are to be on the field at the same time, what is the strategy behind finishing with that combo and hence a weaker lineout, rather than starting with it?

the lineout is the only area anyone can come up with as being a negative by-product of them playing together, otherwise they complement each other more perfectly than any other 6/7 combo..

Having one less jumper is manageable for 20 minutes or so. Not the whole game.

 

[abcde]

Food for thought.. Based on form; no Visa restrictions (LOL) Australian Pacific Islander XV

1. S. Sio - Brumbies
2. T. Latu - Waratahs
3. P. Alo-Emile - Rebels
4. W. Skelton - Waratahs
5. L. Timani - Rebels
6. J. Butler - Brumbies (vc)
7. C. Fainga'a - Rebels
8. W. Palu - Waratahs
9. W. Genia - Reds (c)
10. M. To'omua - Brumbies
11. S. Naivalu - Rebels
12. S. Kerevi - Reds
13. T. Kuridrani - Brumbies
14. J. Tomane - Brumbies
15. I. Folau - Waratahs

16. P. Leafa - Rebels
17. S. Kepu - Waratahs
18. S. Mafi - Force
19. I. Vaea - Brumbies
20. A. Mathewson - Force
21. C. Lealiifano - Brumbies
22. C. Feauai-Sautia - Reds
23. T. Naiyaravoro - Waratahs

Honourable mentions
24. A. Ala'alatoa - Brumbies
25. T. Polota-Nau - Waratahs
26. L. Fakaosilea - Reds
27. H. Speight - Brumbies

Oh the depth..


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[KOB1987]

Having one less jumper is manageable for 20 minutes or so. Not the whole game.

can you explain that? In any case it doesn't answer the question, why the last 20, not the first 20?

 

[Strewthcobber]

I think one of the greatest myths of the modern game is matches "open up" in the 4th quarter, the opposite happens. Some statistics in Super Rugby this year, more points were scored in 52 1st halves compared to 38 2nd halves. I think as fatigue happens the attack suffers rather than the defence which is based around attitude, you'll make the tackle even if you're bloody tired because you know your team depends on it but you might be slower getting to the ruck if you're fatigued.

That's a great stat.

I wonder what role bringing on all the reserves has as well?

 

[Braveheart81]

The Chiefs lost both their locks in the first half against the Hurricanes and played the second half with five backrowers.

Their lineout was more successful than the Hurricanes.

I tend to think the assumption around needing three good jumpers in the lineout is based around perception more than reality. The calling and the throwing seem to have a far bigger impact on lineout success than the number of quality jumpers.

 

[KOB1987]

I think you are right BH. Having an extra 6ft bloke instead of a 6'4 one might mean you get one less steal, that's probably about it as far as the lineout would be affected..

 

[qwerty51]

Also locks are quite heavy, usually 115kgs+ compared to 110kg backrowers. 5kgs can mean getting someone up a lot quicker.

 

[Slim 293]

I think most people are in agreement here that our 4/5/6 combo should be Skelton, Simmons and Fardy........ and that should serve us well in the lineout with Simmons and Fardy running it and acting as our two primary jumpers........

Currently the Brumbies have the best lineout in the comp (Carter leading with most takes), with the Reds third (although Simmons has missed much of the season)...........

Skelton doesn't necessarily need to be used as a jumper, and it's likely whoever is playing 8 (McCalman, Higgers or Palu) will be the third jumper anyways.............

Also, from a defensive angle, Skelton and Fardy are probably the two best maul defenders in the comp.

 

[Slim 293]

Also locks are quite heavy, usually 115kgs+ compared to 110kg backrowers. 5kgs can mean getting someone up a lot quicker.

Most of the top lineout targets are backrowers or smaller locks - Schatz, Fardy, Dennis, Luke Jones.........

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think one of the greatest myths of the modern game is matches "open up" in the 4th quarter, the opposite happens. Some statistics in Super Rugby this year, more points were scored in 52 1st halves compared to 38 2nd halves. I think as fatigue happens the attack suffers rather than the defence which is based around attitude, you'll make the tackle even if you're bloody tired because you know your team depends on it but you might be slower getting to the ruck if you're fatigued.

I wonder how it shakes out at test level? The above backs up what Link used to say about preferring to have his impact players at the start of a game. Me personally I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other, but you obviously want to have your best XV out on the paddock when the game is there to be won. The old rugby adage is that points 5 minutes either side of the half are the important ones, though again I don't know if the stats back that up. I'll bet a thousand bucks this information is out there somewhere.

 

[something]

I think most people are in agreement here that our 4/5/6 combo should be Skelton, Simmons and Fardy.... and that should serve us well in the lineout with Simmons and Fardy running it and acting as our two primary jumpers....

This was discussed in the hoopcock thread... last year Fardy only took 4 lineout balls in the entire wallabies season. At national level he wasn't really used.

I agree with KOB, i haven't seen a conclusive piece of evidence to suggest we can't play both hooper and pocock. Pocock's tight game is very very similar to Fardy's, but better..... & Hooper plays the wider role. Why can't it work? Pocock takes just as many line outs as Fardy. Skelton has started taking line outs pretty effectively and is Kick ass at maul disruption. to me it seems like you are gaining a hell of a lot without losing too much.

 

[Tomikin]

Food for thought.. Based on form; no Visa restrictions (LOL) Australian Pacific Islander XV

1. S. Sio - Brumbies
2. T. Latu - Waratahs
3. P. Alo-Emile - Rebels
4. W. Skelton - Waratahs
5. L. Timani - Rebels
6. J. Butler - Brumbies (vc)
7. C. Fainga'a - Rebels
8. W. Palu - Waratahs
9. W. Genia - Reds (c)
10. M. To'omua - Brumbies
11. S. Naivalu - Rebels
12. S. Kerevi - Reds
13. T. Kuridrani - Brumbies
14. J. Tomane - Brumbies
15. I. Folau - Waratahs

16. P. Leafa - Rebels
17. S. Kepu - Waratahs
18. S. Mafi - Force
19. I. Vaea - Brumbies
20. A. Mathewson - Force
21. C. Lealiifano - Brumbies
22. C. Feauai-Sautia - Reds
23. T. Naiyaravoro - Waratahs

Honourable mentions
24. A. Ala'alatoa - Brumbies
25. T. Polota-Nau - Waratahs
26. L. Fakaosilea - Reds
27. H. Speight - Brumbies

Oh the depth..


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You Failed when you selected CFS and Naiqaravoro over Speight.. I mean seriously !!

 

[qwerty51]

What about Leafa over TPN? Plus Genia and Matthewson are not PIs.

 

[TOCC]

What about Leafa over TPN? Plus Genia and Matthewson are not PIs.

Papua New Guinea is considered part of the pacific islands


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[Viking]

can you explain that? In any case it doesn't answer the question, why the last 20, not the first 20?

Let's say 4 jumpers Vs 4 jumpers in the line-out you win 90% of the time. But 3 v 4 in the line-out you will win only 70%. Thats still 3 out of 4 line-outs in 20minutes.... But in 80 minutes it's 7 out of 10. Losing 3 line-outs is pretty bad but only potentially losing 1 is manageable. Basically there is less opportunity for the opposition to capitalise on their advantage of the extra jumper. Also it can take time for the opposition to work out calls, jumpers etc, there is less time for them to adapt and take advantage in 20minutes.

Yeah it could be the first 20. But then you lose a sub early in the game which leaves a risk if someone gets injured.

 

[cyclopath]

Let's say 4 jumpers Vs 4 jumpers in the line-out you win 90% of the time. But 3 v 4 in the line-out you will win only 70%. Thats still 3 out of 4 line-outs in 20minutes.. But in 80 minutes it's 7 out of 10. Losing 3 line-outs is pretty bad but only potentially losing 1 is manageable. Basically there is less opportunity for the opposition to capitalise on their advantage of the extra jumper. Also it can take time for the opposition to work out calls, jumpers etc, there is less time for them to adapt and take advantage in 20minutes.

Yeah it could be the first 20. But then you lose a sub early in the game which leaves a risk if someone gets injured.

Is that you, Eddie Jones?

 

[Slim 293]

This was discussed in the hoopcock thread. last year Fardy only took 4 lineout balls in the entire wallabies season. At national level he wasn't really used.

I agree with KOB, i haven't seen a conclusive piece of evidence to suggest we can't play both hooper and pocock. Pocock's tight game is very very similar to Fardy's, but better... & Hooper plays the wider role. Why can't it work? Pocock takes just as many line outs as Fardy. Skelton has started taking line outs pretty effectively and is Kick ass at maul disruption. to me it seems like you are gaining a hell of a lot without losing too much.

Pocock doesn't take as many as Fardy.......... Not even remotely close.

Fardy is also good defensively in the lineout - disrupting opposition ball............

I would also imagine that anyone not named Rob Simmons took too many lineouts for the Wobs last year.

 

[qwerty51]

I remember that argument being for McMahon vs Fardy not Hooper/Pocock vs Fardy

 

[Slim 293]

Actually, here is a breakdown of the Wallabies lineout takes in the tests Fardy played last year according to ESPN............

Simmons 37 + 1 steal
Carter - 10
McCalman - 9
Fardy - 6 + 1 steal
Higginbotham - 4
Skelton - 3
Horwill 1 + 1 steal
Jones - 1
Hooper - 1
Hodgson - 1

In the first test Simmons called 11 lineouts to himself, and 1 to McCalman........

Carter wasn't thrown to for the entire French series.........

Skelton took 2 in his first test against France.........