Wallaby Scrum - As good as we claim?

[darkhorse]

After the dominating the Boks scrum two weeks ago and a decent performance the week before against the ABs, there have been a couple of articles claiming our scrum is now a weapon. Is it perhaps a bit premature?

Whilst there has been a definite improvement, I find it hard to reconcile that dominating any boks forward pack that has the over the hill John Smit in it as proof of a strong scrum. If the Wobblies had faced the boks scrum from last (Boks v ABs #2) then I would be alot more comfortable. The boks looked a lot better with both Du Plessis' in from the kickoff. Admittedly, the blacks had made a fair few changes and wouldn't have had the time to gel this reduced personal. However, their can be no question that this bok scrum is fair superior to the previous one, which was frankly more deserving of a 2nd tier nation.

The Wallabies have often shown improvement only to stop and the first signs of doing so. The scrum is clearly stronger, but a weapon? Why do we always claim to have 'turned the corner' before having done anything to back it up. My hope is they keep on the up the good work, but atm we are not ready to comfortably face the Poms or the ABs in a World Cup.

Thoughts. Agree? Disagree?

 

[Tireless Backrower]

No specialist loose-head....if we get there the ABs will be looking to exploit this selection decision.

 

[sjg]

the set piece itself can hold its own, and upon likely (and hopefully) improve may prove to get up against a few solid packs. our advantage lays in our running rugby and our selections show that, tending towards players that can run with the ball. i just want to see TPN and benn back...

 

[cyclopath]

I think we did well against the Bokke, without dominating their "proper" scrum. I think the best AB scrum, best Bokke scrum would both be a little better than ours. But if the Wallaby scrum can be mostly solid, that will probably suffice. I think our best chance to really dominate would have been a fit Robbo at 1 and Kepu at 3 (or a fit Slipper) with Moore or TPN at 2. Alexander has done very well, but he is still a point that other teams will attack, I feel.

 

[whatty]

After the dominating the Boks scrum two weeks ago

This came up quicker than I thought!

 

[TheNextBigThing]

Last night the boks were totally dominant at the scrum with both Bismark and Smit. The Abs were constantly under pressure, giving away a tighthead and a lot of ground at times.

Combinations were: B. Franks, Mealamu/Hore, Woodcock/Afoa & JDP/Van der Linde, BDP/Smit, Steenkamp/Beast

I think we can mix with either of those teams. It all depends on whether a team wants to use the scrum as a weapon. A successful scrum is more about the number of forwards fully committed and attacking opposition scrums at strategic moments. It's not simply about manpower but about confidence and strategy.

 

[Tireless Backrower]

Last night the boks were totally dominant at the scrum with both Bismark and Smit. The Abs were constantly under pressure, giving away a tighthead and a lot of ground at times.

Combinations were: B. Franks, Mealamu/Hore, Woodcock/Afoa & JDP/Van der Linde, BDP/Smit, Steenkamp/Beast

I think we can mix with either of those teams. It all depends on whether a team wants to use the scrum as a weapon. A successful scrum is more about the number of forwards fully committed and attacking opposition scrums at strategic moments. It's not simply about manpower but about confidence and strategy.

Hence our gaining parity without Sharpe is no coincidence?

 

[qwerty51]

TPN at hooker with Vickerman and Horwill the second row and it doesn't matter who the fuck our props our. It'll get the job done.

Locks are underrated in the scrum. Look how bad the ABs are without Thorn and playing two loose locks.

 

[DPK]

We've got to scrum smarter. I think the key to beating the NZ scrum is negating their push before the ball is in (a Crusaders favourite, too). We've got a pack that can push pretty well, let's start out thinking our opposition.

 

[Tireless Backrower]

Thats an issue of controlling the ref but is certainly a well made point

 

[Groucho]

The scrum is actually quite good now. What we're seeing amongst supporters is the usual malaise of believing "if it's not the best in the world, it's crap".

The front row is very solid, despite the loss of Robinson. Kepu is a very good loosehead as well as having been recently converted into a very good tighthead. Alexander is perfectly serviceable and getting back to good form. I'd be playing them the other way around, and I assume the reason Deans isn't is because he wants to play Kepu and Slipper, who could be anything given time.

The locks are also good. Any combination of Horwill, Sharpe and Vickerman has oodles of experience, although Sharpe is a question mark in the scrum, which is what we're talking about here. Simmons may make the 22, simply because he's stronger in the scrum.

The backrow is fine as long as they stay bound. Paul in particular anchors a scrum very well.

We may not push the ABs round, but no one from this hemisphere is going to push us around either. It remains to be seen how good the NH scrums are.

 

[Groucho]

No specialist loose-head....if we get there the ABs will be looking to exploit this selection decision.

Don't you rate Kepu as a specialist loosehead?

All our first three props play both sides now. I don't think that makes any of them a weakness, simply versatile.

 

[Joe Blow]

Will Slipper at TH make our scrum stronger or weaker?
I think Kepu in particular has come along nicely and is forming a fast improving front row with Alexander and Moore.
I would have him(Slipper) on the bench in our game against Ireland and for the quarters, assuming we get that far.
Our scrum is serviceable but able to exploit an oppositions weakness at the moment, as displayed last week.

As an aside, with Smit not on the paddock the Boks look to have a very good scrum.

 

[qwerty51]

The looked to have a good scrum because Henry thought Whitelock and Williams was good idea.

 

[Scotty]

I would keep the same front row starting vs Italy but give slipper significant time off the bench to see any difference to Alexander. Italy is a great team to have in our pool and will put us in good stead for the knock out rounds.

 

[Tireless Backrower]

I dont think he rates himself a specialist loosehead.
Whether its a weakness or not only time will tell: to be frank when had specialists we lamented the lack of blokes who could play both sides.
On my analysis today we are going to have scrummaging issues again in the future: the England Schoolboys had a clearly dominant pack against the U19s.

 

[Tireless Backrower]

Will Slipper at TH make our scrum stronger or weaker?
I think Kepu in particular has come along nicely and is forming a fast improving front row with Alexander and Moore.
I would have him(Slipper) on the bench in our game against Ireland and for the quarters, assuming we get that far.
Our scrum is serviceable but able to exploit an oppositions weakness at the moment, as displayed last week.

As an aside, with Smit not on the paddock the Boks look to have a very good scrum.

Its 19 days away - how much improvement is left in them that can be usefully harnessed?

 

[Swarley]

I don't think we need a "weapon" in terms of our scrum being globally dominant, just having a stable scrum is a "weapon". We were never going to switch to 10-man Rugby, but having a scrum that isn't going to concede a penalty try every time we scrummage on the 5m line is perfect. Being able to run a set play or simply open up the space with a scrum suits us perfectly.