Wallaby Watch 2014
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We don't really need another goal kicking 12
Foley, White & Beale will be in the squad, so there are enough goal kickers.
The comment about needing an excellent goal kicker for the RWC in case we have horrendously wet conditions is certainly fair but there are a few problems there.
Firstly, teams are named well in advance of matches. If the goal kicker isn't good enough to be in the 23 on general play they probably won't be named unless there is a flood in the week leading up to the match.
Secondly and more importantly, neither Harris or Leali'ifano (even on top form) are the goal kicker you need in that sort of situation.
If the conditions are miserable, the kicker who can barely kick over 40m in good conditions isn't good enough for those games. Harris showed that he couldn't do it when we lost to Scotland a couple of years ago.
Realistically, White, Beale and to a slightly lesser extent, Cooper are the only kickers who can get that range.
Firstly, teams are named well in advance of matches. If the goal kicker isn't good enough to be in the 23 on general play they probably won't be named unless there is a flood in the week leading up to the match.
Secondly and more importantly, neither Harris or Leali'ifano (even on top form) are the goal kicker you need in that sort of situation.
If the conditions are miserable, the kicker who can barely kick over 40m in good conditions isn't good enough for those games. Harris showed that he couldn't do it when we lost to Scotland a couple of years ago.
Realistically, White, Beale and to a slightly lesser extent, Cooper are the only kickers who can get that range.
T
Train Without a Station
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But there aren't enough good goal kickers. Which is the only time anybody actually has value as a goal kicker.
terry j
Ron Walden (29)
sheesh, don't they know anything? Blokes gotta have a tash ya know.
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
Regarding Christian, I firmly believe his drop in form, both generally and in goal kicking, has resulted from his ankle injury suffered last year. It obviously takes time after severe injury to refind form. In Horwill's case, how long has it taken for him to come back to something like his pre-injury form? A full season more than Chistian's had so far iirc.
However, I am just as bewildered by the Brumbies continuing to start him in favour of Pat McCabe this year, and continuing to have him take the goal kicks in favour of Nic White. Both poor decisions by the coaching staff imo. Like others, I think he would have missed the Wallabies' squad this time round if Godwin had been fit and available. But I don't think there have been any other 12s whose play would consistently have them in front of Christian, and apparently Link thinks that way also. I fully expect him to come back to his best form with full fitness.
However, I am just as bewildered by the Brumbies continuing to start him in favour of Pat McCabe this year, and continuing to have him take the goal kicks in favour of Nic White. Both poor decisions by the coaching staff imo. Like others, I think he would have missed the Wallabies' squad this time round if Godwin had been fit and available. But I don't think there have been any other 12s whose play would consistently have them in front of Christian, and apparently Link thinks that way also. I fully expect him to come back to his best form with full fitness.
T
Train Without a Station
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Horwill was in bad form in 2013. His EOYT form was average. His form has been good in 2014, improving as the year wears on. As a former Wallaby captain, who had about 5 years of quality international form under his belt, he got the benefit of his experience.
Lilo has a great Super Rugby season 2 years ago. Failed to cement a spot for the Wallabies and hasn't shown anything further since.
I don't fully expect Lilo to get back to his best form when fully fit? Why? Because it was so brief that I can't say I've got any reason to believe he can consistently do that.
Lilo has a great Super Rugby season 2 years ago. Failed to cement a spot for the Wallabies and hasn't shown anything further since.
I don't fully expect Lilo to get back to his best form when fully fit? Why? Because it was so brief that I can't say I've got any reason to believe he can consistently do that.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
"His form has been good in 2014",
I only rated it as OK
I only rated it as OK
T
Train Without a Station
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That's because it would take him extracting blood from a stone to consider his form to be any better.
He's work rate and set piece have been generally as good (and in the case of set piece - significantly better) than all his competitors.
His impact in collisions has been just ok at times. Considering he's been as good as anybody else, or better at about 2/3rds of his job and ok at the rest, he's been better than ok.
By your logic Skelton has been poor because he's work rate isn't high, and his set piece is average at best, but his impact has been great.
He's work rate and set piece have been generally as good (and in the case of set piece - significantly better) than all his competitors.
His impact in collisions has been just ok at times. Considering he's been as good as anybody else, or better at about 2/3rds of his job and ok at the rest, he's been better than ok.
By your logic Skelton has been poor because he's work rate isn't high, and his set piece is average at best, but his impact has been great.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
By my logic Skelton has also been OK. He has had outstanding moments, as has James but would rate his overall performance accross all facets of the game the same, i.e. OK
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
So one of the highest tackling and running combined locks who is arguably our second best line out forward in the country, who is part of a strong scrum is just going ok? You aren't rating his performance across all facets, you're ignoring the facets that he is performing extremely well in.
The value of players in the set piece, specifically tight forwards needs to be recognised. Unless the Wallabies are intending to play on 20% possession.
I'd argue as a lock Skelton is going pretty fucking average, but he is performing well with the exception of the Reds game, because he is there to do a role that differs from that of a typical lock.
The value of players in the set piece, specifically tight forwards needs to be recognised. Unless the Wallabies are intending to play on 20% possession.
I'd argue as a lock Skelton is going pretty fucking average, but he is performing well with the exception of the Reds game, because he is there to do a role that differs from that of a typical lock.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
To James high levels of previous performances I think his 2014 has a rating to me of OK.
But that is just one man's opinion as is yours
But that is just one man's opinion as is yours
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I'm not saying against a benchmark of his own past performances. I'm saying against a bench mark of other current locks.
It's irrelevant to anything (other than an example of his true potential) if a player was winning games for their team single handed and whether they are able to fulfil this potential again in regards to selection. How they perform against the competition for their position is the only relevant performance indicator when selecting.
It's irrelevant to anything (other than an example of his true potential) if a player was winning games for their team single handed and whether they are able to fulfil this potential again in regards to selection. How they perform against the competition for their position is the only relevant performance indicator when selecting.
So do you think the Wallabies should pick the guy playing 2nd grade for UQ because he's playing out of his skin relative to how good he normally is?
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
I think your assessment of Christian's form is based on "conventional wisdom" formed through a limited sample and the content of others' posts rather than a properly formed opinion based on watching him play almost every game over the years. Christian started showing signs of superior talent way back in the ARC in 2007. He then had consistenly good form to start in Super Rugby games through to 2011 when he was a standout in a poorly performing Brumbies' backline being strangled by Matt Giteau. In 2012 and early 2013 before his injury, he was regularly winning MOTM awards and showed beyond doubt that he was ready for test football. Since making his test debut, he has suffered at least two severe injuries that have interfered with his career both at Super and test levels. Obviously, Link sees something in him that encourages him to pick him in the squad.
I don't think it is reasonable to say that Christian's good form at Super level was brief. He has had in the order of 4 - 5 years as an established Super rugby player. He deserved his call up to the Wallabies and will justify his selection again when fully recovered from his injuries.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Exactly. He had 4-5 years of being a a decent super rugby player but it was only on season when he showed top form. That was 2 years ago. He was unable to replicate that in 2013 and his international form was merely adequate.
It shouldn't be expected that he will necessarily repeat 2012 form regularly. Not saying he want, but it shouldn't just be expected.
It shouldn't be expected that he will necessarily repeat 2012 form regularly. Not saying he want, but it shouldn't just be expected.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
then, neither should be selection (be expected), if he's not good enough amongst the current crop
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Is that even logical ??????
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
No. That's what BH is pointing out Scrubber.
It's not important to an extent, how well they are playing compared to how well a player can possibly play. If we are talking about selection, it's important how well they are playing compared to the other options.
If anything, the potential to play even better is a positive for a player's selection, not a negative as you seem to see it.
It's not important to an extent, how well they are playing compared to how well a player can possibly play. If we are talking about selection, it's important how well they are playing compared to the other options.
If anything, the potential to play even better is a positive for a player's selection, not a negative as you seem to see it.
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