Waratahs 2012

[The_Brown_Hornet]

For me winning ugly is about low skill level, one out, one dimensional footy. No ball movement, no clever tactics, no creativity. Winning through forward dominance isn't necessarily winning ugly. A well executed rolling maul, dominant scrum or counter ruck takes huge amounts of coordinated skill (and strength) amongst the pack. A catch and drive from a line out, for instance, where you push the opposition 20m towards their own goal line I think is great footy. Constantly turning over opposition ball at the breakdown by committing numbers and driving over is also fantastic to watch. Watching a team go through 20 phases of pick and drive and making 3m then drawing a penalty isn't great viewing from my point of view. A well executed pick and drive where the defence is practically sprinting backwards is.

It's all about dynamism in the end, to use a nebulous term. The desire to consistently and purposefully move the ball towards the opposition try line, hopefully at pace.

 

[Bradley]

I'd love to know how Matt Schwagger is shining under Louden's coaching if was injured in the first round and hasn't been sighted since.

 

[Bruce Ross]

You may or may not be aware, Bradley, that the Uni players started intensive training for this season in early November. Among the teams they played trials against were the Victorian state side, Tuggeranong and Eastwood. Matt also completed the first game against Parramatta despite breaking his hand. In each of these games he was captain. So he has been exposed to a considerable amount of coaching by Todd Louden and has also been seen in sufficient games for his form to be assessed.

Does that put your mind at rest?

 

[lily]

They wouldn't bother with wilko when they've got some very special talent in the GPS comp this year. A number 8 and a gun outside back.

That's a piss take isn't it. A high school No8 and an outside back. Surely I've taken the bait.

 

[Bowside]

That's a piss take isn't it. A high school No8 and an outside back. Surely I've taken the bait.

Well not really. Reds have quite a few good players in the system at the moment. They dont really need to be wasting money on players they don't need. They should instead be stocking up their ranks from the bottom up. There are some very good young guns playing rugby who I have no doubt will be offered league contracts in the near future, the reds have to make sure they get them in the academy quicksmart.

I thought the suggestion of a wilko cameo was sort of taking the piss.

 

[tranquility]

That's a piss take isn't it. A high school No8 and an outside back. Surely I've taken the bait.

Certainly not. Let's hope the are both on the books by October.

 

[Squeak]

The Tahs and Reds have few personnel worries compared to the other provinces. Schwagger, Seymour or Kingston could be the next Beale. At the Tahs we're sitting in school, club and mungo talent. If it gets pinched now and then (or picked up after it gets discarded) it's just part of the cost of doing business in one of Australia's homes of rugby. Beale's development started when he was 15. No excuses- as long as we run good academies there will always be Beales and other provinces should always be playing catchup

 

[qwerty51]

Well, no Phipps. I have a lot of time for McKibben so I'm not distraught about missing out. The key question is who do we bring in as back-up. I don't think the juniors are ready, Seymour or Bredenhann, though better judges than me may want to differ. Who is running around in Shute? Bob Dwyer mentioned the SD half Dewett Roos and he's a good judge but is there anyone else?

Well at Southern Districts, you've got Roos the 9 (currently injured) and the 10 and 12 are both 19 and in the Tahs academy. I believe they are both in the Aus u20s squad too.

 

[Albert]

Who is running around in Shute? Bob Dwyer mentioned the SD half Dewett Roos and he's a good judge but is there anyone else?

I think between McKibben and Josh Holmes the Tahs have got two well established professionals for 2012-13.

As Bruce has mentioned, ex-Joe boy Matty Schwagger is still at Uni, and would not let anyone down. Similarly, Jeremy Sua has a strong resume, and the Tahs could do worse than throw him an opportunity. James Price and Steve Evans at Norths are both handy at no. 9, and Luke Irwin at Easts is a solid Premier Rugby standard halfback. Lua Vailoaloa at Parra is in the Melbourne 'Rebel Rising', and has played at a good level. I think any of these guy could do an adequate job as a third-string halfback for 2012-13.

From 2014 onwards, I think the Tahs (and other Aus franchises) will have a pretty handy crop of number 9s to pick from. There's half a dozen 19 / 20 / 21 year old halfbacks bubbling away in the grade and colts ranks at the moment. Some are on 'academy' contracts, but most of the others are learning their trade in a good quality competition.

I know he's contracted to the Brumbies (not sure how long the deal is), but I would be having a good crack at securing Nic White to a gig. He is going to be a quality Super Rugby player for the next 7 or 8 years. He's only 21. Dewet Roos from Souths has been mentioned, and he's also only 21. Ed Bredenhann at Uni is only 20, and has been playing grade for 12 months now. Nick Stirzacker, also at Uni, is only 20. He started this year in colts, played 2nd grade last week, and has been named in the Shute Shield team this week. At our club, Liam Walker is 19 or 20. He made his Shute Shield debut against Parra last week, but is back in seconds this week. One bloke who no one has mentioned as yet is Jack Rowntree. He's also 20, and is running around in 3rd grade for Manly. Ruka Hanlon is another to watch. He's playing colts at Easts.

I'm aware these guys are only young, and some critics may not see any value in them playing colts / lower grades / Shute Shield.... but I'm pretty confident that many of them will benefit greatly from learning their trade inside out, and will be ready for a Super gig come 2014. At that point they'll all be 23-24, and reaching their prime as halfbacks.

 

[Levo]

Management of Waratahs should be replaced or at least overhauled.

The management of the Waratahs, or should I say mismanagement of the Waratahs needs to be fully reviewed. I am a business owner, and have been many years, and there is no way I could afford to have one of my departments being run as badly or incompetently as the managers at Moore Park are running the Waratahs.

These are some of my reasons:

Firstly, the reaction from the Waratah's management was diabolical about the Beale incident. They said they didn't see it coming! If you are a player in Australia and want to perform at your best, any good player manager would be advising you to either play for McKenzie of MacQueen. There is no way that Hickey was ever up to scratch, as he was always "learning on the job". If he is learning, then all you get is a 1 year contract which is renewable after annual review. If I had a players as valuable as Beale and Mitchell, I would have a minder talking to their manager and to them to make sure they are happy, and most importantly protecting my best assets.

Secondly, the selection of Hickey as coach. As I said above his contract was too long. Hickeys responsibility for the performance of the team against the Cheetahs was terrible, his team selections are a incredulous. They are still talking about playing Halangahu - who is below standard. Barnes has no X factor, and Burgess cannot pass to the right. With regard to Burgess, don't take it from me, in the next game, watch Burgess pass to the right, it is short and close in. Burgess most often takes the option to run when he has to pass to his right due to his weak pass. He has been able to cover it up well, but the All Blacks are licking their lips when they see him selected. Ok for Super Rugby but no good in the international arena.

Secondly, James O'Connor is available, and on the market. What is the Waratah management saying ....nothing! The Waratah's management should be chasing him hard, especially after Beale has left. I say James O'Connor would really fire up the Waratah's back line, who would receive a strong pass from Phipps then passing to Barnes, who would pass to Ashely Cooper. This would start to fill the football stadium. Now all we have to do is fix the foward pack. I think Foley is doing a good job, as long as they leave Al Baxter on the bench, and pick someone big ( > 1.97 m) and ferocious at No.8 as back up to Palu, and pick Polota Nau as Captain.

Thirdly, the guys who selected Hickey. The amount of money Hickey, and the guys who appointed him, has cost the Waratahs is mind boggling. The lack of interest and half filled stadiums this year is very costly. At a quick guess that calculates to be about 10,000 fans not attending per home game @ say $50 = $500,000 x 8 games gives you a grand total of $4,000,000 in lost revenue. No wonder the Waratah's income is declining and making losses. Over 2 years is $8,000,000.

As a NSW / Waratah's fan since the 1970s, I am sick and tired of being disappointed year after year of below par performances. Also standing by and watching the NSW management in business terms "drop the ball" - eg. budgets, "knock on" - eg. poor management selections; "unable to make a tackle" - eg. grabbing O'Connor; "can't pass" - realise they are stuffing up, and "taking your eye off the ball" - letting Beale leave. The all adds up to a big "F" for failure.

It is time for change at Moore Park. Time to get some clear thinking hard headed management to run the operations.

I am available for free for 1 to 2 years!

 

[Ruggo]

Well not really. Reds have quite a few good players in the system at the moment. They dont really need to be wasting money on players they don't need. They should instead be stocking up their ranks from the bottom up. There are some very good young guns playing rugby who I have no doubt will be offered league contracts in the near future, the reds have to make sure they get them in the academy quicksmart.

I thought the suggestion of a wilko cameo was sort of taking the piss.

No it wasn't. He has high promotional value, plays the type of game the Tahs tend to like and would offer huge mentoring value to those kids comming through that have been mentioned. They now have the coin to have a crack at lureing such a class player and with Wilko virtually being no chance of seing another RWC after this year may be tempted to try his hand at super rugby.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I'm aware these guys are only young, and some critics may not see any value in them playing colts / lower grades / Shute Shield.... but I'm pretty confident that many of them will benefit greatly from learning their trade inside out, and will be ready for a Super gig come 2014. At that point they'll all be 23-24, and reaching their prime as halfbacks.

As you may be aware, Albert, Nick Phipps played three years in Colts. It certainly didn't do him any harm.

 

[Lee Grant]

Albert ,

Good post on the scrummies.

As you say there are a lot of maybes on the back burner to be added to McKibbin, who is a fine player and a reasonable goal kicker. Josh Holmes time is up at the Tahs and may or may not be re-signed.

White would be the best of those mentioned, at the minute. The Brumbies would be mad to let him out of their stable as he is not a bad flyhalf either - but you never know. He is not a ACT local and the St. Gregory's lad (though from the Hunter Valley) could see value in returning to the big smoke.

I have seen very little of Sua lately but I saw Irwin for the Oz Baas this year and he looked OK. You'd think that one or two of the young brigade will put their hands up in a year or two as you indicate - and we have to remember that Burgess didn't reveal his talents until he was about 23.

It's next year that I am concerned about, and the year after, especially if Holmes isn't around to back up McKibbin. Even if he is, he will have to show more at the Super level to feel comfortable about him.

I hope that Bruce is right about Schwagger. He was a fine 9 at Joeys and was always in the shadow of Sievert, who seems to have disappeared fro the radar, unless he is injured. Maybe it will be Schwagger's time to be in the sun.

 

[fatprop]

I always thought Sievert looked pretty good as well

 

[Lee Grant]

Levo

Welcome aboard mate.

We Tahs fans have a lot to complain about and mainly through our own making but things are not always what they seem. I have some gripes about the Tahs especially use of the bench and deplorable drop in form from one game to the other - but I could be talking about the Wallabies.

That was an astute point about Burgess passing off his left hand and as you point out: he tends to snipe a lot on the right side.

Players always do things that cover up their weaknesses. Players run too far with the ball in hand because they don't trust their pass running at top speed; some can't step to the right very well so they pass the ball the the left a lot when they should have a shot of stepping into the inside shoulder of a tackler; a forward who is a strong barger but not good at judging if a short pass can be given in close will always run too much; even a lineout man will tap the ball back too much if his inside hand is his weaker one to catch a nearly too high ball cleanly.

 

[Albert]

As you may be aware, Albert, Nick Phipps played three years in Colts. It certainly didn't do him any harm.

Yep - I knew he'd played at least two years in the colts, along with his mate Bernie Foley. For all the sledging you Uni blokes get, one thing can not be argued - you are very very good at giving players the right environment to grow their game.

Everyone loves the fact that Aus rugby seems to turn out a new bunch of golden boys every year... but personally, I get the shits when players are rushed into elite level footy before they are ready. I don't mind outside backs (and to a lesser extent 2nd row & loose forwards) 'learning on the job' but fuck, anyone who wears jumper numbers 1, 2, 3 or 9 & 10 should be left alone to learn their trade in colts and lower grades, then Premier Rugby, before they are even considered for full-time, pro level footy.

I'll concede that there will always be exceptions to the rule, however they are few and far between.

 

[Bowside]

No it wasn't. He has high promotional value, plays the type of game the Tahs tend to like and would offer huge mentoring value to those kids comming through that have been mentioned. They now have the coin to have a crack at lureing such a class player and with Wilko virtually being no chance of seing another RWC after this year may be tempted to try his hand at super rugby.

Oh sorry mate I thought you were suggesting the reds buy him. The tahs can do what they like, and in the absence of a consistent 5/8 he would be a good acquisition I suppose. But I doubt they can get anywhere close to the money he's on at toulon, and i'm sure there is more than one tahs fan who still see's him as the enemy after the events of 2003.

 

[Lee Grant]

As usual we are talking about the backs but let's talk about the others and start with the locks.

Right now we have Mumm, Douglas, Jowitt, Timani and O'Connor on the books. Of those: Jowitt had another operation recently; so I doubt if the Tahs will risk re-signing a guy who played one game in two years. Timani is sure to go to Japan for more money and it's to his credit. I have been told his decision was economic as his family is depending on him. O'Connor is off to Italy.

Young Peterson will step up from the Academy next year. Vickerman will be around to add to Mumm, Douglas and Peterson and one guy will be needed to step up to the pro academy level.

On Vickerman: there is a rumour that he has a slight stress fracture in his leg and is getting cold feet about showing up for the Tahs this year and the RWC - watch this space.

 

[minorbird]

Speaking of locks, has anyone heard how Will Caldwell is going? Last I heard he had stepped away from rugby due to Crohn's disease, but it would great to have him back.

 

[James Buchanan]

Speaking of locks, has anyone heard how Will Caldwell is going? Last I heard he had stepped away from rugby due to Crohn's disease, but it would great to have him back.

After looking up Crohn's disease on wikipedia, it'd be a really impressive effort for him to even get back out on the paddock.