Discussion in 'Rugby Discussion' started by fatprop, Mar 16, 2012.
Is this speculation or from the horse's mouth? [no pun intended]
1 Million % speculation
Those are announcement dates.
Obviously things were put in place well before those announcements. ie Foley taking over as head coach.
A further example.
Gary Ablett reveals the worst kept secret in AFL by announcing after the 2010 season he's moving to the Suns. A move that's been speculated about for many many months.
He told one of the producers I work with a year before the announcement that he was going.
Like with Ablett, it was well known well before it was announced that Elsom was returning to the Tahs and Foley would be coach.
Mowen knew this and tried to negotiate a deal that was in his best interest.
Can you guys take this discussion over to the What's Wrong With The Tahs thread? This is Waratahs 2013. Mumm, Elsom, Vickerman are unlikely to be a part of it. I get it. You don't want them to be there. I get it. Let's talk about actual signings or other for 2013.
Good call Rob.
Let's keep it to Tahs 2013 from now on guys.
So based on all the back and forth above looks like we could be freeing up some cash. Who do we throw it at? Any world class 10s off contract?
IS, if it isn't already apparent, my view is that the number one thing they need at this stage in the season is fans getting behind them to finish the season on a positive.
But hey, by all means the Tahs could keep changing their coaching team every year or two. I like seeing Rebels higher than Tahs on the table.
Well tbh that isn't true. What I really passionately want to see is the Aussie teams dominating the saffas and kiwis.
I think Bernard Foley is the man they should be trying to make into the new 10. Play Barnes at 12 or 15.
It's hard to know where recruitment dollars should go. If we get our best team on the park, it is hard to find too many holes.
With a backline of:
9. Pretorius, McKibbin
10. Foley, Barnes
12. Barnes, Carter
13. Horne, AAC, Kingston
11,14. Mitchell, Turner, Pakalani, AAC
15. AAC, Barnes, Foley
We look fairly strong in most places. That's only 11 backs so it would leave room for 2 or 3 more full contracted players (if we're looking at 13 or 14 backs in the 30 man squad).
From the 2012 squad we're losing BKH and you'd imagine that Halangahu will also go. It's hard to know which position to try and recruit for. My guess is we just try and identify some young talent and hope we can develop them into someone really good in a couple of years time. On looking at the current squad, it would take a superstar import to get much game time if most people are fit.
Quade, at the climax of a two-hour special on Fox, announces he is taking his talents to Moore Park. World. Ends. Gagger forced to quadruple server capacity.
Super Rugby is a depth competition. I think we need to be recruiting quality -- but not necessarily "world class" -- players throughout the back line in particular. Our forward stocks are solid, but our lack of backs depth has been exposed massively this year.
One priority beyond this would be a player who is a clear starter but also a strong goal kicker.
That's why we really need Barnes to be our first choice kicker next season. Whether he ends up at 10, 12 or 15, you'd think he's a guaranteed starter.
If he can sort out any and all groin issues, he's a very reliable kicker. Prior to this season I'd have said he's much better than McKibbin. I've never seen McKibbin kick this consistently well in Shute Shield. That said, for a lot of Winter, goalkicking on Woollahra Oval involves running in on a horse paddock so I wouldn't say conditions are generally ideal.
If Halangahu leaves then Barnes and Foley are our only two options at 10. I guess on that basis, we should try and sign a young fly half and hope we can develop him into a quality player.
To quote myself on the U/20 thread:
I've told the Tahs about this but a birth year of 1993 is still being listed for him. He turns 22 next September.
He's a bit of a penalty magnet as big brother used to be, but if he gets that out of his game he will be a considerable rugby player.
Lee - speculating the Tahs need 3 new backs, a prop and a second rower for next year, who do you think is worth investment in locally?
Interesting article again linking Chieka to the Tahs
Seems the jurnos at least are circling Foleys job, they must smell blood.
Are these players you envisage being starting players?
No idea, Lee has a ton more knowledge of the talent out there and would be able to hande your question as well as mine much better than I could.
You wont be surprised to learn that theres a reason I asked.
Its the reason I suggested in that other thread (or was it this one) that there is a danger of the Tahs squandering another generation of players.
The Tahs should not need to be looking for starting players. A properly organised talent identification and development program, given the proximity to the biggest rugby nursery in Oz, would have blokes ready to step up in each position - Exhibit 1: The Crusaders - the best 5/8 in the world goes down and they immediately have access to a bloke who, within a few short weeks everyone is saying may keep DC out of the ABs..that wont happen of course but they do it across the team - 7, 9, 15 wherever the problem arises.
So for 2013 the Tahs either admit defeat and wait for the young blokes to develop without throwing them in the deep end too early or they throw them in the deep end too early and squander the next generation. There needs to be a circuit breaker between the culture of loss and defensiveness in relation to all and any criticism and a new culture of victory and openness with the public. Get rid of the team v the doubters mentality: it has not worked.
I favour the first course which actually means finding players ready to start..the alternative is to not get rid of the blokes who are already starting - come clean with the fans and tell them 2013 is a development year BUT tell them what the plan is - a look to the medium term future instead of rearranging the deckchairs, often mid season, and then sacking/not renewing the coach at the end of the season. Of course the staff in this arrangement have to be confident that they will be supported and wont lose their jobs due to lack of results.
The differences between my plan and all prior approaches are:
(1) its a plan;
(2)it involves taking the "fans" and the media into your confidence, bringing them inside the tent and making it a bit more like a tribal team. Tell them there needs to be a season in which to stabilise the progression of the young blokes. I actually think that if the Tahs took this course there would be no booing and the fans would take the view "well at least we now know what is going on - lets get behind it".
The past approach bears a marked similarity to the political discourse in this country - problem? what problem?
Much as I think foley is part of the problem and not any part of the solution this is a typically short sighted approach to the problems.
Surely what the Tahs need is to identify coaches/potential coaches and bring them in as assistants - long before now, of course.
Do we have so little faith in our rugby knowledge in this country that we have to appoint a foreigner to coach our national team and are incapable of recognising potential head coaches and bringing them up through a system, as opposed to plucking head coaches from elsewhere.
Grab your life vest - and start rearranging them deckchairs.
How the Waratahs fare against the Cheetahs on Sunday will not only determine whether they end an exasperating, month-long losing streak but will also impact on the future of numerous leading team identities. Our Moore Park snouts tell us that if the Waratahs lose in Bloemfontein, there will be ''repercussions'' when the team returns to Sydney next week. A meeting involving team staff and high-ranking Waratahs officials has been pencilled in for early next week, and a fifth straight loss has the potential of turning this into an acidic gathering. Several powerbrokers are miffed that the Rebels have passed the 11th-placed Waratahs on the Super Rugby ladder, and that their chances of making the finals look over. Head office would also be deeply concerned that if this slide continues crowd figures for their final two home games - crucial in generating much-needed revenue - will be badly affected. Luring only 17,368 for their last home game, against the Bulls, was not encouraging. A Waratahs source said last night: ''If we lose to the Cheetahs, someone will go.'' The re-emergence of Michael Cheika as a potential Waratahs, Rebels or Force coach has also made many at NSW nervous.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/tahs-brass-vows-repercussions-if-team-pulls-off-yet-another-loss-20120524-1z7wv.html#ixzz1vpDtlLv5
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