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Waratahs 2020

molman

Peter Johnson (47)
Positives for the Tahs in 2020: Harrison, Bell, Hooper, HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes)
Negatives: Everyone and everything else!
Someone talking about mathematical probabilities for the finals??? The overriding question is, can we avoid the wooden spoon?

Whilst I don't totally disagree on some of the positives, your negatives are just harsh and unfair to the team. There is a lot of good bubbling, including some other young players like Tafa, Ramm, Tizzano, Walton, some possible talent with Gamble and some players yet to return like Hanigan.

There has been enough parts to many of the games to see that there is potential and talent in the squad and that's even with some players not performing well at all.

I'm just not so down on the team. Penney made his intentions and the overall situation pretty clear at the beginning of the season. What 'has' been disappointing is the one step forward two backwards at times. The defence in particular is a problem. Seeing how Scotland have tightened up I think we've really lost out with Tandy moving on. I think next year I wouldn't mind seeing a more experienced defence coach come in.
 

Froggy

John Solomon (38)
Look, you're probably right Molman, but I was just totally pissed off with the complete capitulation on Friday night. When the Chiefs came out and put on two quick tries after the break, the heads dropped, the attitude turned to shit and most of them just went through the motions. And that really comes back to the senior players, who are supposed to be the guys lifting the young blokes, but in fact were the worst culprits. Beale, Hunt, Dempsey all had a pretty good first half, but were the first to toss it in. One thing that gets up my nose is people blessed with the talent to play our great game at the top level for a living seemingly caring less than a Subbies second grader.

Apart from the four I mentioned, I agree Ramm has been a good find, and I thought Short, while not offering Gordon's running game, was much quicker to the breakdown, and passed well. No comment on Taffa, Tizzano and Walton, need to see how they react to the higher level. However, I think neither Staniforth nor McCauley offer much at all (and Simmons only marginally better), while in the back row Dempsey and Swinton do a few good things, but certainly don't give us 80 minutes of quality, and Holloway is really no better than the day he debuted.

It'll be good to get Hanigan back, you get genuine passion there, and as some have said above, may not be a lot to lose by giving the likes of Tafa, Harris and Tizzano a crack.

The other area we aren't getting much value is in the centres. Hunt plays about 40 minutes of decent footy a week, and Newsome has been totally anonymous. Not sure where we look for changes there, but I guess Moeroa could be a start.

As mentioned earlier, the other thing we need is inspiring leadership, the sort of stuff that will lift a team when they've just had two tries put on them in quick succession, and I don't see that coming from Simmons or Beale. Assuming no means no for Hooper, I don't know who provides that. Maybe Hanigan when he comes back???
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
My concern with the Tahs is that there is just a complete lack of power in the side. Even when the Reds were at the bottom of their rebuilding phase there were always some pretty powerful units there like Tupou and Kerevi that could get you over the gain line or make a dominant hit that would get you some momentum.

When the rot sets in for the Tahs, there's no simple way for them to wrestle control back and get into the game. Often this just leads to them pushing passes and finding themselves deeper in the quagmire. Time to give Tepai a go.
 

Rebels3

Jim Lenehan (48)
My concern with the Tahs is that there is just a complete lack of power in the side. Even when the Reds were at the bottom of their rebuilding phase there were always some pretty powerful units there like Tupou and Kerevi that could get you over the gain line or make a dominant hit that would get you some momentum.

When the rot sets in for the Tahs, there's no simple way for them to wrestle control back and get into the game. Often this just leads to them pushing passes and finding themselves deeper in the quagmire. Time to give Tepai a go.
Yep, they need either a power winger or centre, prob better to look at centre with the good prospects available on the wing, and someone in the back row or at lock. The backrow is fine if there was big gain line options at 4/5 but unfortunately there is absolutely none in the team. It’s probably no surprise the Tahs looked at their best last year when Holloway was at lock to add some ability to get over the gain line or draw attention from defenders giving others around him that extra step into contact.

I wonder if Moeroa will be given a shot at 12 with Hunt pushed to 13.
 

Silverado

Dick Tooth (41)
Yep, they need either a power winger or centre, prob better to look at centre with the good prospects available on the wing, and someone in the back row or at lock. The backrow is fine if there was big gain line options at 4/5 but unfortunately there is absolutely none in the team. It’s probably no surprise the Tahs looked at their best last year when Holloway was at lock to add some ability to get over the gain line or draw attention from defenders giving others around him that extra step into contact.

I wonder if Moeroa will be given a shot at 12 with Hunt pushed to 13.
I think Moera must be considered at 12. He certainly can defend as well.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
We are going to achieve absolutely nothing until we have at least one powerhouse middle rower. Ideally two. Time to go hunting in the Republic again; they seem to produce them in droves.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Ben Darwin made the good point on the tweeter that with the amount of changes the Tahs have this season, team cohesion collapses
 

eastman

Arch Winning (36)
We do not have one genuinely powerful ball-runner in the tight five. I think you can get away with less dynamic locks if you have good ball runners in the front row like the Tahs had through Kepu and TPN/ Latu, but are lacking now. We certainly should not be playing
Staniforth and McCauley in tandem with the current structure of the pack
 

molman

Peter Johnson (47)
Look, you're probably right Molman, but I was just totally pissed off with the complete capitulation on Friday night. When the Chiefs came out and put on two quick tries after the break, the heads dropped, the attitude turned to shit and most of them just went through the motions. And that really comes back to the senior players, who are supposed to be the guys lifting the young blokes, but in fact were the worst culprits. Beale, Hunt, Dempsey all had a pretty good first half, but were the first to toss it in. One thing that gets up my nose is people blessed with the talent to play our great game at the top level for a living seemingly caring less than a Subbies second grader

I don't disagree. As I said one step forward (fighting back in the first half), two steps back (that whole second half showing).

There was a real lack of leadership in that second half and as I said elsewhere it was really players like Harrison who kept on fighting when as you say a number of the more experienced players failed to show up. I've defended Beale somewhat in the past but that really was a dismal display and doubly so with him being captain.

Apart from the four I mentioned, I agree Ramm has been a good find, and I thought Short, while not offering Gordon's running game, was much quicker to the breakdown, and passed well. No comment on Taffa, Tizzano and Walton, need to see how they react to the higher level. However, I think neither Staniforth nor McCauley offer much at all (and Simmons only marginally better), while in the back row Dempsey and Swinton do a few good things, but certainly don't give us 80 minutes of quality, and Holloway is really no better than the day he debuted.

Don't disagree with much of that except to say I think Simmons does more than he's given credit. He's never going to be a Retallick style player but in the scope of who he is, he is really quite good and I think a little under appreciated at times.

It'll be good to get Hanigan back, you get genuine passion there, and as some have said above, may not be a lot to lose by giving the likes of Tafa, Harris and Tizzano a crack.

Agree. I really hope the lad is ok and able to return in good form.

The other area we aren't getting much value is in the centres. Hunt plays about 40 minutes of decent footy a week, and Newsome has been totally anonymous. Not sure where we look for changes there, but I guess Moeroa could be a start.

I think Hunt is honestly trying to get things going he just doesn't have the execution and doesn't provide the punch with need with a relatively smallish 13 outside him. You can see they are really trying to move the ball and find that space as they know they can't play a power game, but it's just not working.

As mentioned earlier, the other thing we need is inspiring leadership, the sort of stuff that will lift a team when they've just had two tries put on them in quick succession, and I don't see that coming from Simmons or Beale. Assuming no means no for Hooper, I don't know who provides that. Maybe Hanigan when he comes back???

The sad thing is that players like Dempsey should really be stepping up. I think Hunt has shown reasonable on-field leadership at times and he was pretty honest in the interview after the game. Fitzpatrick tried hard when he came on and I think provides some leadership in the squad, but yes we really lack a talismanic leader to rally the troops. Hanigan was the NSW Country captain so I think they see more leadership from him in the future.

Anyway, like I said, it's not all doom and gloom. We all knew this would be a rough season for Tah's fan (just go back and read the comments from many of us). I'm just keen to see some improvement, see more of the up coming players have a run and get an idea of who’s time is probably up and/or might need to move on. A lot of the squad only have contracts till the end of this year, so many of players are really playing for their jobs and new contract for next year so it'll be interesting to see who is in and out and what a Penney squad really looks like.
 

Froggy

John Solomon (38)
Look, I'm still a Tahs supporter and always will be. And I wasn't expecting finals this year. What I was hoping for was effort, demonstration that with a year or two under their belt, this could be a really competitive team. The bit we saw against the Crusaders (let's face it, the best provincial rugby team in the world) indicated that might be what we get. However, I wasn't prepared for the complete lack of commitment we saw against the Blues, the Rebels and the second half against the Chiefs. It wasn't a young, inexperienced side rolled by a far better rugby team, it was a team that just conceded defeat. With the exception of a handful of individuals, as I've said before.

It's been said many times on these boards that Chieka wasn't much of a coach, just a man motivator. Well, that's exactly what we need right now.
 

molman

Peter Johnson (47)
We do not have one genuinely powerful ball-runner in the tight five. I think you can get away with less dynamic locks if you have good ball runners in the front row like the Tahs had through Kepu and TPN/ Latu, but are lacking now. We certainly should not be playing
Staniforth and McCauley in tandem with the current structure of the pack

I think unfortunately necessity. I have no doubt that coaches discuss many of the same compromises and limitation that we do.
 

molman

Peter Johnson (47)
Look, I'm still a Tahs supporter and always will be. And I wasn't expecting finals this year. What I was hoping for was effort, demonstration that with a year or two under their belt, this could be a really competitive team.

Fair enough.

Agree on the apparent effort. Definitely would like to see some more grit.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Look, I'm still a Tahs supporter and always will be. And I wasn't expecting finals this year. What I was hoping for was effort, demonstration that with a year or two under their belt, this could be a really competitive team. The bit we saw against the Crusaders (let's face it, the best provincial rugby team in the world) indicated that might be what we get. However, I wasn't prepared for the complete lack of commitment we saw against the Blues, the Rebels and the second half against the Chiefs. It wasn't a young, inexperienced side rolled by a far better rugby team, it was a team that just conceded defeat. With the exception of a handful of individuals, as I've said before.

It's been said many times on these boards that Chieka wasn't much of a coach, just a man motivator. Well, that's exactly what we need right now.

Yep and hence time to drop players
 

Kenny Powers

Ron Walden (29)
Not that the Waratahs have great crowds to start with but with no gate takings you would think they will be close to insolvent and even when the ban is lifted with the virus they will still be wandering nomads with no new stadium probably till 2022 at best.

Directors and Roger Davis need to be careful they don’t trade insolvent.
 
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