Waratahs 2021

[Kenny Powers]

I sense an element of knowledge transfer from the Auckland Bluse experience.

Well the Auckland Blues do have former Waratahs CEO Andrew Hoare. So maybe the knowledge transfer is to the Auckland Blues not from?

Are the Auckland Blues after a new Chairman can they take Roger Davis?

 

[7137]

I think Penney should shoulder more of the blame than I initially thought. Your cattle isn't 50 points worse.

I would arguably do a straight swap between the Rebels forward pack and the 'Tahs forward pack this weekend. I rate HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) & Bell more than Eloff & Pone. Uelese is better than Horton when he's not broken. Your locks suck but so does Steve Cummins. Hosea is a big plus (though was underwhelming).

Dempsey, Swinton, Tizzano is a more acclaimed backrow than Hardwick, Wilkin & Wells.

You have talent. Something isn't clicking. I honestly think you're a wallaby or two away from a good team.

I like HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes), but he’s not a tight head. He toils hard but it’s not where he belongs.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Read the article on NSWRU chair talking about tahs performance

“But it’s not something you can just click your fingers on overnight. Particularly with the financial challenges that we’ve had as a business." Ie hence the $1m below salary cap

 

[Members Section]

I like HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes), but he’s not a tight head. He toils hard but it’s not where he belongs.

He has been up against a couple of real handy opposition the 1st 2 games, I think he has a lot to offer but out of no where suddenly we are blessed with some amazing props, 5 years ago he would have been handed a wallabies jersey! give him time.

 

[eastman]

Read the article on NSWRU chair talking about tahs performance

“But it’s not something you can just click your fingers on overnight. Particularly with the financial challenges that we’ve had as a business." Ie hence the $1m below salary cap

What's your source on this $1m figure?

 

[KiwiM]

Well the Auckland Blues do have former Waratahs CEO Andrew Hoare. So maybe the knowledge transfer is to the Auckland Blues not from?

Are the Auckland Blues after a new Chairman can they take Roger Davis?

Hore has been excellent since taking over as CEO of Blues which is interesting.

 

[hifflepiff]

Hore has been excellent since taking over as CEO of Blues which is interesting.

Just another Tahs product excelling after leaving Sydney

 

[KiwiM]

Yeah - interestingly the Blues had similar systemic problems all through the organisation until the last couple of years when there was a full cleanout.

 

[Pfitzy]

Hore has been excellent since taking over as CEO of Blues which is interesting.

He arrived at a fairly good time in the organisation's recent history tho.

Was not a very popular man at NSW Rugby outside the tip of the professional spear. Doorn's focus is a little wider, working at all levels to improve the state of rugby in NSW, rather than worrying solely about what the pros do.

As someone who has spoken to him directly (if briefly) about this, I'm comforted that he's concerned with the wider game, as it is the only way to actually get NSW out of the shit it is in.

Of course, that relies on all the little political tinpot organisations getting on the same wavelength.

 

[hifflepiff]

Yeah - interestingly the Blues had similar systemic problems all through the organisation until the last couple of years when there was a full cleanout.

Players do seem to either stagnate or go backwards at the Tahs. At U20's level (and for their first few super games) Harrison looked like a better flyhalf than Lolesio. But Noah's had a few years in the Brumbies system and now looks to be far superior.

Another example, Simone was dreadful at the Tahs, but at the Brumbies he looks like a Wallabies contender.

It looks like there are some deep institutional problems at NSWRU that lead to this.

I do wonder what the discussion around these Tahs players would be if they were in Brisbane or Canberra.

 

[Blackadder]

What's your source on this $1m figure?

Super Rugby AU: NSW Waratahs to slash player wage bill by up to $1m to stay afloat in 2021 (smh.com.au)

Here is one article. There are several more mentioning the Tahs are well under the cap further

The CEO and chairman keep mentioning we have financial troubles and can't spend the cap

Also looking at the team if we have spent the cap then many players are well over paid

 

[Adam84]

Players do seem to either stagnate or go backwards at the Tahs. At U20's level (and for their first few super games) Harrison looked like a better flyhalf than Lolesio. But Noah's had a few years in the Brumbies system and now looks to be far superior.

Playing behind a forward pack going forward, with test players in key positions in the backline at halfback and fullback certainly makes a difference in both how you perform and how you develop.

 

[Braveheart81]

Sadly, I was very wrong about the Tahs this season. I thought this team of youngsters would put up a much better showing than they have.

At this point the only hope is that they can improve as the season wears on and that having played the best two teams away, they're significantly more competitive against the Force and Rebels.

This Friday at home against the Force is a huge game for that reason.

I'm not sure what Penney could have done differently if the the Tahs are underspending the other teams by around $1m. That is a huge figure as a percentage of the overall wage bill and makes it very clear why we are only recruiting journeymen and kids. There's little point blaming him for letting people go if the salary budget he was left with literally made it impossible to offer existing players anywhere close to what they were already being paid (let alone competing with their overseas offers).

I don't see the point firing him at this stage. What is their to gain by putting one of the assistants in charge? It would be such a poisoned chalice for whoever took over. His position could become untenable very soon though. If the losses continue like this you just have to let him go even if it isn't actually going to solve anything.

Roger Davis absolutely needs to go as Chairman. He has been in the role for a long time and since 2014, things have steadily gone downhill. He's made many questionable public statements and actions over that time.

 

[Pfitzy]

It looks like there are some deep institutional problems at NSWRU that lead to this.

I do wonder what the discussion around these Tahs players would be if they were in Brisbane or Canberra.

In recent history we had the Reds in the doldrums for a number of years and they tried their hail marys with a succession of old boy coaches etc. The ABs didn't win a world cup for years despite being ridiculously successful compared to everyone else outside RWC.

Both organisations finally decided that just doing shit the same old way wasn't going to get them anywhere, and they changed.

The problems at NSW Rugby are longstanding and (in practice) unaltered very much as the deckchairs on the Titanic were shuffled. Disaster seems to be the only impetus for change in a lot of places, because rocking a sinking boat is not a comfortable position for incumbents until their knees are wet.

 

[Drew]

I like HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes), but he’s not a tight head. He toils hard but it’s not where he belongs.

Agree there. Another example of no succession planning from the management. Kepu left, we have two wallaby LHPs and a promising rookie LHP; eenie, meanie, miney, mo (selector points at HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes)) you’re our new THP. I know he played both sides coming through, but it was a big ask. Another example of Tahs forward planning is that 3 years ago HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) was playing 10-15 minutes off the bench, now he’s a senior player. Then Gibson selects smaller, more mobile locks to suit his game plan, chases off any up and coming bigger locks, leaves early on his contract and here we are.
If all these rookies and near rookies can build some cohesion around a simpler, more direct game plan, we will hope to see something good by seasons end into next year. We have to play like a tier 2 nation in the World Cup or the Force last year with their limited roster.

 

[eastman]

In recent history we had the Reds in the doldrums for a number of years and they tried their hail marys with a succession of old boy coaches etc. The ABs didn't win a world cup for years despite being ridiculously successful compared to everyone else outside RWC.

Not sure plight of the ABs at World Cups is quite comparable to the horrendous state of rugby in NSW (ABs not winning was realistically more bad luck than systemic failures) but Davis has had his shot and there needs to be some level of accountability.

 

[KiwiM]

He arrived at a fairly good time in the organisation's recent history tho.

Was not a very popular man at NSW Rugby outside the tip of the professional spear. Doorn's focus is a little wider, working at all levels to improve the state of rugby in NSW, rather than worrying solely about what the pros do.

As someone who has spoken to him directly (if briefly) about this, I'm comforted that he's concerned with the wider game, as it is the only way to actually get NSW out of the shit it is in.

Of course, that relies on all the little political tinpot organisations getting on the same wavelength.

That brings up a good point - Hore's role in NSW was overseeing both the professional and community game. Whereas at the Blues he is really only looking at the professional game and the Mitre 10 Cup unions focus more on the community game. Sounds like he's more suited to the former than the latter.

 

[Braveheart81]

HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) played tight head prop in the under 20s. He got moved to LHP in his first season at the Tahs because that is an easier introduction to professional rugby and because there was more opportunity there.

I'd guess he should go pretty close to his 50th Super Rugby cap this season.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

That brings up a good point - Hore's role in NSW was overseeing both the professional and community game. Whereas at the Blues he is really only looking at the professional game and the Mitre 10 Cup unions focus more on the community game. Sounds like he's more suited to the former than the latter.

IMO there is no doubt that being a CEO or Head Coach in Australia is a much more difficult assignment than in NZ.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Whilst I don’t have a lot of faith in head office, I do sense that the mil is left for this purpose. Rodda has to be target #1.

Rodda would be a good get for next year. I agree that a quality THP is essential to allow HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) to return to the LH side where he was developing as a real Wallaby prospect.