Western Force 2017

[The_Brown_Hornet]

How I feel too Farva.

 

[Moono75]

Lets hope we can make it to a 15 year members pin lads

 

[Shiggins]

Let's not make a 2018 thread because the writings on the wall guys.

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

 

[Bobby Sands]

I haven't posted in here in a long while, but if any of this smoke proves to belong to fire than that is an appallingly short-sighted decision, that makes an already bitter taste in my mouth completely acrid.

I should be part of the rusted on rugby community of this country, but I am not, and empirically here in Queensland it is something of a trend.

The fact that the "counted-on" within a "heartland" are turning is telling.

While being from QLD, I live in Victoria, and the rugby community in Vic is less than nothing. The members sections are full of corporates who don't even know the rules of the game.

If this comes to pass, it is not a rugby decision.

If the ARU don't make rugby decisions, what is their mandate?

 

[amirite]

I haven't posted in here in a long while, but if any of this smoke proves to belong to fire than that is an appallingly short-sighted decision, that makes an already bitter taste in my mouth completely acrid.

I should be part of the rusted on rugby community of this country, but I am not, and empirically here in Queensland it is something of a trend.

The fact that the "counted-on" within a "heartland" are turning is telling.

While being from QLD, I live in Victoria, and the rugby community in Vic is less than nothing. The members sections are full of corporates who don't even know the rules of the game.

If this comes to pass, it is not a rugby decision.

If the ARU don't make rugby decisions, what is their mandate?

The rugby community in Vic looks very similar to the one in WA in terms of make-up, numbers, etc. That's even with the mass-South African immigration to WA.

If you think the Vic rugby community is 'less than nothing' when compared to WA -

1. Look at the numbers.
2. Get out into said community and see that you're wrong.

 

[Shaker]

I think ultimately, if it comes to it, the ARU are just shutting down the "easiest" to shut down. That's what frustrates me the most, now i came along on the Force journey a few years ago when i moved to Perth so i dont really know what happened before that but how has it got to the point where the Force are the easiest to fold? The team averages higher crowds than both the Brumbies and Rebels, we are just as successful as the Rebels. Makes no sense. Money isnt the only deciding factor here surely.

 

[mst]

the ARU are just shutting down the "easiest" to shut down.

IMHO is the reason. If the rumours were true out of SA that cut SA franchises would be paid out by SANZAAR (at no cost to host unions) then the decision will be different to the rumour being circulated atm. "Stoff" was sorta on the right track in the Where to for Super Rugby thread with the fact that the ARU need to fork out about $5mil to each franchise over the next 4 years. The issue is they are contractually obligated to hand it over to the Rebels which forces (pun not intended) their hand. The second part of their bet is holding out on the future composition and TV deal which is not too far away.

 

[catweazle]

As a Super Rugby fan I sincerley hope that the ARU don't take the so called 'easy option' by shutting down the Force. While it's true that the club's results have not been amazing it would be very disappointing if they were merely dismissed as a failed experiment in the West.

The team can be very competitive, are strongly supported and from what I can tell they have also established strong pathways and developmental programs. The 'Sea of Blue' are very enthusiastic supporters, the Spirit won the NRC and if I'm not mistaken the Junior Gold Cup teams out of WA have been quite successful. What would happen to these groups if the Force were to be removed from the competition?

As much as it looks more and more likely that the Force will suffer the axe from the Super Rugby I hope that the ARU can look beyond wins and losses alone when making their decision.

 

[dru]

OK, here's my conspiracy theory:

ARU have said they'll cut a team but only if SARU cut two & are desperately hoping that (a) SARU don't have the balls to drop two & (b) NZRU's Plan B is a 3 x 6 comp (Plan A being 3 x 5) 'cos Super 16 doesn't make much more sense to them than Super 18. In other words, they're bluffing & hoping one or both of SARU & NZRU fold. Not a strong strategy IMO but time will tell.

@WoB

I dont know where to start this response/conversation. I'd like to think that when I say I have learnt to respect your superrugby thoughts - very deep respect - that you would understand I'm not being a complete pratt. Some reality in it.

And I see on other threads where I have blamed NZRU, you have been kindly mild.

That's fair enough, and of course shoving a huge discontent at NZRU, on many levels is completely ludicrous. Without doubt NZ is just, hell, successful. AND has dug deep to support Aus in the past. We owe respect.

Here's the thing though, right now I'd expect that the NZRU think they are helping Aus rugby. There's a whole lot of reasons for them to think so. And kt's horse-shit.

Bloke, here in Aus rugby-tragic world, especially from a "possible cut" franchise, any expectation to get other than an apararant irrational kick-back, well its just ridiculous. Strangely enough in Aus, some of us, even in fucking Perth, actually care for the game.

I suspect this is not going to happen. I suspect that ARU is simply waiting for the South Africa fail to cut teams. NZ is in waiting mode, sitting with a smug expression. Good luck to them.

It's a massive blow to the Aus rugby punter that the ARU did not simply state up front, veto. That lack of action I personally will not forgive.

What happens next. I think. Is SA just can not make the cuts. And the Aus punter has now well lost any residual respect for the ARU.

If the Sydney-centric SRU can now get off its arse - and stop targeting the non NSW/Qld franchises, but treat them as friends, as opposed to someone who needs to be knocked over in the process of getting the ARU - (hell that was a long rant) and start chasing partners in Perth, Melbourne, Canberra. Well shit, we just gave Begg an incredible platform.

For me, I will support "Super" as long as it works for Aus rugby. Yes big fail right now with Aus rugby itself. ALSO a big fail with SANZAR.

I am completely ready to suceed from "super rugby". Let SANZAR talk me back. That conversation starts with five Aus franchises. Then lets talk about fixing this fucked up Super system. If NZ prefers to drop Aus and work to Africa - it's yours. With love and respect for our many years together. But the line is crossed.

Untill I see different, Aus DEMANDS a franchise in Perth.

And Melbourne.

And Canberra.

If that doesnt work for the rest of our SANZAR partners, I'm just over it. no time has been spent, publically, on a domestic option. Ridiculous, and its time for it to happen.

Let NZ speak up. Now. That would end this self destruction. SA is yours. Aus comes with 5 franchises.

Period.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Dru, I get the fan anger & I'd be horrified if there were none. I also get why some of that anger would be directed at NZRU, who appear to be pushing the 15-team barrow (but I've also seen it reported as something that at least some of the broadcasters are keen on).

I really don't think Tew has shown anything like smugness, to me he looks like a man trying desperately to make the best of what is clearly a clusterfuck format, albeit one that he (along with Pulver & the previous head of SARU) was so enthusiastic about just two years ago despite any number of people predicting that it would quickly become unsustainable.

I'd like to think that NZRU are also bluffing by "demanding" a return to S15 while being prepared to accept a "compromise" 3 x 6 S18. But I don't know, any more than anyone else who hasn't read the "Ten Year Vision" report that was tabled at the London meeting & kicked off this whole sorry mess.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

(continued from the above)

Maybe the "Ten Year Vision" requires that Australia drop a team now in order for the nine remaining Australasian teams to form the core of some Asia-Pacific super-conference(s) (I'm not sure how that could possibly be, but sadly I don't get paid mega-bucks to come up with these kind of long-term strategies ). That might explain Pulver's reluctance/ failure to flat-out rule out Australia cutting a team under any circumstances.

 

[dru]

^^^ I get the thinking around a "bluff" by NZ. Completely get how they may have gotten there. Even here in Aus, we would have been thinking "well, hell that had to come".

But we need to split true tragics from possible supporters. NZRU (let's face it, who else is talking of cutting teams from anywhere but NZ) has missed the reaction from the rugby tragics in Aus. I think.

You know, if NZ thinks they can make ground in Aus without the tragics, then for Christ's sake speak up!

Right now, I do hold NZ are primarily resposible, Aus rugby has been turning on itse

 

[Forcefield]

The sad thing is that Australia would have the talent for 5 teams if Europe did not have so much money to throw around. Same deal with South Africa. The talent drain has less of an effect on NZ because you have the depth to wear it. If there was a little less pressure from up there and we had another 3 or 4 years of the NRC pathway, we would put up a much better fight.

 

[southsider]

The sad thing is that Australia would have the talent for 5 teams if Europe did not have so much money to throw around. Same deal with South Africa. The talent drain has less of an effect on NZ because you have the depth to wear it. If there was a little less pressure from up there and we had another 3 or 4 years of the NRC pathway, we would put up a much better fight.

The talent pool isn't our problem, how many OS players do you think would realistically make an impact? Maybe half a dozen?

Our problem is coaching, the talent is there, our teams on paper are better than SA franchises and not TOO far off the kiwis but our coaching at all levels of the game is letting us down

The talent is there, we just aren't using it

 

[Forcefield]

I agree that coaching sucks, but you can't tell me we wouldn't be better off with the likes of Will Genia, Luke Jones, Paul Alo-Emile, Peter Kimlin, Liam Gill, Zack Holmes, Peter Betham, Kurtley Beale, Nic White, David Pocock (okay an exception), Greg Holmes, James Horwill and a handful of others.

Ironically, I think the Force are actually the best coached Aussie side. We have been rolling out half a team of players with less than 10 super caps and they have been putting out credable performances.

 

[southsider]

I agree that coaching sucks, but you can't tell me we wouldn't be better off with the likes of Will Genia, Luke Jones, Paul Alo-Emile, Peter Kimlin, Liam Gill, Zack Holmes, Peter Betham, Kurtley Beale, Nic White, David Pocock (okay an exception), Greg Holmes, James Horwill and a handful of others.

Ironically, I think the Force are actually the best coached Aussie side. We have been rolling out half a team of players with less than 10 super caps and they have been putting out credable performances.

True although what's that 10? (I wouldn't count Zak Holmes in the same category as the rest of them). It'd be nice to have them 100% but i don't believe 10 players are the make or break of our super rugby squads after those 10, the other 20 or so Aussies that are overseas are very interchangeable with the players we have back home already. The talent is there it's just not being nurtured

But yes I do get your point and each squad would be in a much better position if they each had a few of these guys

 

[Highlander35]

You guys have signed Lewis Carmichael from Edinburgh on loan till the end of the season.

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/17/03/29/carmichael-goes-loan-part-development-agreement

He's a good lad, and he's played well in his dozen or so appearances for them so far, but how much is down to Edinburgh's pack as a whole and how much is down to him I have no idea.

 

[Melchior]

looks like a development player. no one else with his experience available in the southern hemisphere?

 

[MACCA]

You guys have signed Lewis Carmichael from Edinburgh on loan till the end of the season.

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/17/03/29/carmichael-goes-loan-part-development-agreement

He's a good lad, and he's played well in his dozen or so appearances for them so far, but how much is down to Edinburgh's pack as a whole and how much is down to him I have no idea.

Fuck the Force - they sign a bunch of SAFFERS, now a Scottish Development player.
I would rather the Force/ARU spend the money on Australian players.
Dont think signing a Scottish player will help the argument to keep them in Super Rugby.

 

[Shaker]

Fuck the Force - they sign a bunch of SAFFERS, now a Scottish Development player.
I would rather the Force/ARU spend the money on Australian players.
Dont think signing a Scottish player will help the argument to keep them in Super Rugby.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not.