Where to for Super Rugby?

[KOB1987]

Just as an aside, Foxtel reported a $417m loss and are going to undertake a review of the sports they cover. Interesting ahead of the next broadcast deal.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I've watched many a boring NRL/AFL game, but you don't get the watching paint dry comments on Monday, they just move on.

Why can't rugby, IMO it comes down to the compromised nature of the competition, it will never change until that addressed.

NRL and AFL have the massive advantage that they can identify and resolve an issue in a (relative!) instant, even midway through the season.

Imagine how long rugby would take to implement a change such as this

The NRL has issued a crackdown on time-wasting in a bid to regain an estimated eight minutes of match time every game.
Rules being introduced this week will require teams to be ready to pack for a scrum within 30 seconds of one being awarded, and the 40-second time limit for line drop-outs has also been cut to 30 seconds.
Failure to do so will result in a penalty, but only from round 15 onwards once the rule changes are properly enforced.
"Due to the fact these changes are to be introduced a third of the way through a season, we believe that a period of adjustment for players and officials to this amendment is required," general manager of football operations, Nathan McGuirk, said in a statement.

 

[Rebels3]

I've watched many a boring NRL/AFL game, but you don't get the watching paint dry comments on Monday, they just move on.

Why can't rugby, IMO it comes down to the compromised nature of the competition, it will never change until that addressed.

Rugby lost the war on setting the narrative a long time ago. Yawnion, rugby is boring, rugby is all kicking and little skill, etc. is a fundamental of the Australian sports fan psyche, it’s to the detriment of our playing numbers, viewers on tv and attendees at grounds. Originally it was the pro League media now it’s been doubled down with our own fans, through what they perceive is an unjust administration. Some of it justified but a lot of it born through a lack of knowledge of how the games structure actually works and also a lack of understanding that the other codes are basically offering similar to their constituents. Our own media also finds that the only way to get clicks/engagement is through outrage and not positivity, there are plenty out there tho that do their best to paint the sport in the best possible light, it just gets overshadowed.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

NRL and AFL have the massive advantage that they can identify and resolve an issue in a (relative!) instant, even midway through the season.

Imagine how long rugby would take to implement a change such as this

There's no reason something like those measures couldn't be introduced between seasons as they wouldn't actually alter the structure of the game.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Rugby lost the war on setting the narrative a long time ago. Yawnion, rugby is boring, rugby is all kicking and little skill, etc. is a fundamental of the Australian sports fan psyche, it’s to the detriment of our playing numbers, viewers on tv and attendees at grounds. Originally it was the pro League media now it’s been doubled down with our own fans, through what they perceive is an unjust administration. Some of it justified but a lot of it born through a lack of knowledge of how the games structure actually works and also a lack of understanding that the other codes are basically offering similar to their constituents. Our own media also finds that the only way to get clicks/engagement is through outrage and not positivity, there are plenty out there tho that do their best to paint the sport in the best possible light, it just gets overshadowed.

I certainly agree in regards to the casual sports fans perspective on the game. Which is something that annoys me as I think when the ball is in play Rugby is the superior game to the likes of League, Soccer and AFL. The issue is we're competing against games that have vastly more ball in play than Rugby does at present. Which is something we as a sport need to address. It doesn't have to match them as there's far more to Rugby in terms of elements involved in that play but if we could boost it from 32-35 min a game to 42-45 mins that would do a great deal to help at least address some of the issues around the games public perception.

 

[hoggy]

My issue is I don't think rugby has to change much, overall the product is pretty good. But how can we grow as a game when as soon as change is required, its all to hard.

I agree we have lost the narrative, but more the point we gave the narrative away, I come back to my original point until we create a level playing field, even if that means a step backwards we will forever be chained to that narrative.

And all the Wallaby wins in the world won't change that. No matter what we do if the recipe is not right, then the cake won't rise.

 

[Strewthcobber]

There's no reason something like those measures couldn't be introduced between seasons as they wouldn't actually alter the structure of the game.

Agree there's no good reason.

But there will be some reason why it can't be done quickly. Inevitably

 

[Rebels3]

I certainly agree in regards to the casual sports fans perspective on the game. Which is something that annoys me as I think when the ball is in play Rugby is the superior game to the likes of League, Soccer and AFL. The issue is we're competing against games that have vastly more ball in play than Rugby does at present. Which is something we as a sport need to address. It doesn't have to match them as there's far more to Rugby in terms of elements involved in that play but if we could boost it from 32-35 min a game to 42-45 mins that would do a great deal to help at least address some of the issues around the games public perception.

It’s all down the the rhetoric they are grown to understand. I think it’s amusing that some of my mates that think Union is slow and boring because they are League supporters yet during NFL season they are dedicated supporters of a team. A sport that it’s incredibly stop start and makes rugby look free flowing in comparison.

The same goes with AFL supporters that think ‘rugby’ is just guys running into each other, yet once again religiously support NFL.

Another is people that say there is too much kicking in rugby and not enough try’s are scored, yet willingly watch their football team pass the ball around the back line and celebrate a 1-0 victory.

It’s just people believe what they hear if they hear it enough. I’m a fan of all sports, NRL/AFL/Football etc are all brilliantly entertaining if you’re educated on what’s going on.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

It’s all down the the rhetoric they are grown to understand. I think it’s amusing that some of my mates that think Union is slow and boring because they are League supporters yet during NFL season they are dedicated supporters of a team. A sport that it’s incredibly stop start and makes rugby look free flowing in comparison.

The same goes with AFL supporters that think ‘rugby’ is just guys running into each other, yet once again religiously support NFL.

Another is people that say there is too much kicking in rugby and not enough try’s are scored, yet willingly watch their football team pass the ball around the back line and celebrate a 1-0 victory.

It’s just people believe what they hear if they hear it enough. I’m a fan of all sports, NRL/AFL/Football etc are all brilliantly entertaining if you’re educated on what’s going on.

Yeah, I find it odd as well. Especially the kicking thing. There's actually more in game kicking in League than Rugby.

 

[Rebels3]

We (fans) have to do a better job at selling our own sport first. That’d require been respectful of other sports, instead of stick our nose up at league etc. and creating a class warfare that obviously exists between the two games in certain areas. And stop shitting on our own product unless it’s 100% justified. Prime example of this was the Brumbies criticism the other week that was completely unwarranted. We had a brilliantly entertaining Tahs vs Reds derby the other night, if that was league they’d be clamoring over themselves to who can throw the most superlatives at the match.

Once we have supported our own sport, others will fall in line with what a great sport it is

 

[Gnostic]

I don't think its a case R3 of sticking one's nose up at other Sports. I think Pro Rugby in Australia has already lost the war for the hearts, minds and wallets of Australian sports fans. In the country Union I am involved in I have this year seen and heard no discussions about the Wallabies or Super Rugby. This is within a Rugby competition of over 10 clubs spanning a distance of about 350KMs end to end. Its a big catchment and nobody is talking about the pro game among people who play the game. Yesterday I heard the officials of a club discussing in depth this week's round of the NRL.

If Rugby cannot gain the viewership of people who actually play Rugby and love the game, some well into their 70s as one golden oldie was telling me, then I don't know what can be done.

If there is to be a reset, it has to engage these people first and foremost, this are those who are the basis of real growth. I honestly don't know if Pro rugby can be saved in Australia anymore, I think perhaps it has gone past the point of no return.

 

[Joe King]

When I reached out to RUPA in late 2017, RUPA said they believed that either a Trans-Tasman comp, OR going it alone, would be more financially viable in the long run.

Unfortunately, even if NZ wanted a Trans-Tasman comp, it restricts us to 3-4 teams to be sufficiently competitive. RA simply needs to apologise to NZRU and say that unless they are willing to not only have a TT comp, but also pick their test players from any of the teams within the comp, then we need to go it alone for the sake of the game here.

Going it alone may be less revenue at first, but I highly doubt it would send the game broke in Australia. Instead, I think it would give us the basis to build from.

Waratahs
Reds
Brumbies
Rebels
Force
Fiji (based in Western Sydney)
And possibly 2 more teams from the PI’s or Japan.

 

[Joe King]

When I reached out to RUPA in late 2017, RUPA said they believed that either a Trans-Tasman comp, OR going it alone, would be more financially viable in the long run.

Unfortunately, even if NZ wanted a Trans-Tasman comp, it restricts us to 3-4 teams to be sufficiently competitive. RA simply needs to apologise to NZRU and say that unless they are willing to not only have a TT comp, but also pick their test players from any of the teams within the comp, then we need to go it alone for the sake of the game here.

Going it alone may be less revenue at first, but I highly doubt it would send the game broke in Australia. Instead, I think it would give us the basis to build from.

Waratahs
Reds
Brumbies
Rebels
Force
Fiji (based in Western Sydney)
And possibly 2 more teams from the PI’s or Japan.

I also wonder if it’s worth all the players turning out for their clubs for the first two games of the club season, before the Australian Super Comp begins. And then again, mid season, have a bye week in the Super Comp for the Super players to turn out for their clubs again for one round of the club comp.

This is a massive nod to the clubs and elevates their status, and would help them to get on board if we were to go it alone. It also creates the feel that the Australian Super teams are representative teams chosen from the best club players.

Australian rugby desperately needs to come together and reinvent itself to experience a rebirth. If nothing changes, nothing changes.

 

[Joe King]

The other option, which has been discussed before, is to have three seperate conferences in NZ, SA and Oz using the existing Super teams, with no cross-conference games until the finals.

So in the Australian conference you would have:

Waratahs
Reds
Brumbies
Rebels
Sunwolves or Fiji

NZ has their own 5 teams, and Jaguares go with the SA teams.

Play everyone in your own conference 3x (12 games + 3 byes = 15 weeks).

Top 2 teams from each conference qualify to play for the Cup. Each team plays all the other teams, except the team from their own conference (4 games over 4 weeks). The team with the most points at the end of the 4 games, wins Super Rugby.

Teams placed 3rd and 4th from each conference qualify to play for the Shield. Same format as for the Cup.

The bottom placed team from each conference plays for the Plate. Each team plays the other two teams once (2 games + 1 bye = 3 weeks).

Super Rugby goes for 19 weeks total. Exactly what they want.

Each team gets 8 home games and 8 away games. Exactly what they want. (The exception is the bottom placed team in each conference, which gets 7 home games and 7 away games).

Every team gets a home game every 2nd week (consistency for the fans). All regular season games are in time-zone friendly hours (great for the fans of a particular team, and helps the fan-base of each team to grow).

The bulk of the games are local derbies, which are the more popular games (statistically speaking), and it cuts out the less popular (statistically speaking) cross-conference games.

When it does come time for cross-conference games, it’s like the excitement and anticipation of the early years of super rugby all over again - because it’s the unknown. Everyone anticipates the clash between the best teams of each conference.

I know many of my NZ friends really don’t like the idea of too many local derbies because they have their own domestic comp later in the year. But the local derbies are still the more popular games in NZ because of their high standard. I also think you’ll find that the NZ conference on its own under this format, would be even more popular in Australia, SA and Europe.

I also know there is the hesitation with NZ players ‘beating each other up’ too much, which is believed to disadvantage the AB’s. But I disagree. I think since the extra conference games were introduced into Super Rugby, it has only served to improve the AB’s!

Let’s just give something different like this a go for one broadcast spell. If it doesn’t work, then we can go back to the drawing board.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

H

The other option, which has been discussed before, is to have three seperate conferences in NZ, SA and Oz using the existing Super teams, with no cross-conference games until the finals.



So in the Australian conference you would have:



Waratahs

Reds

Brumbies

Rebels

Sunwolves or Fiji



NZ has their own 5 teams, and Jaguares go with the SA teams.



Play everyone in your own conference 3x (12 games + 3 byes = 15 weeks).



Top 2 teams from each conference qualify to play for the Cup. Each team plays all the other teams, except the team from their own conference (4 games over 4 weeks). The team with the most points at the end of the 4 games, wins Super Rugby.



Teams placed 3rd and 4th from each conference qualify to play for the Shield. Same format as for the Cup.



The bottom placed team from each conference plays for the Plate. Each team plays the other two teams once (2 games + 1 bye = 3 weeks).



Super Rugby goes for 19 weeks total. Exactly what they want.



Each team gets 8 home games and 8 away games. Exactly what they want. (The exception is the bottom placed team in each conference, which gets 7 home games and 7 away games).



Every team gets a home game every 2nd week (consistency for the fans). All regular season games are in time-zone friendly hours (great for the fans of a particular team, and helps the fan-base of each team to grow).



The bulk of the games are local derbies, which are the more popular games (statistically speaking), and it cuts out the less popular (statistically speaking) cross-conference games.



When it does come time for cross-conference games, it’s like the excitement and anticipation of the early years of super rugby all over again - because it’s the unknown. Everyone anticipates the clash between the best teams of each conference.



I know many of my NZ friends really don’t like the idea of too many local derbies because they have their own domestic comp later in the year. But the local derbies are still the more popular games in NZ because of their high standard. I also think you’ll find that the NZ conference on its own under this format, would be even more popular in Australia, SA and Europe.



I also know there is the hesitation with NZ players ‘beating each other up’ too much, which is believed to disadvantage the AB’s. But I disagree. I think since the extra conference games were introduced into Super Rugby, it has only served to improve the AB’s!



Let’s just give something different like this a go for one broadcast spell. If it doesn’t work, then we can go back to the drawing board.

How about this as a future oz conference (note it assumes merger of Super Rugby and GRR) which assumes World League gets up and assists in providing valuable funding and increased commercial interest in rugby in oz to make what I propose as viable.

1. Waratahs
2. Reds
3. Rebels
4. Brumbies
5. Force
6. Fiji
7. Samoa
8. Sunwolves

 

[Adam84]

I don’t know what it is but this season has been the least amount of super rugby I’ve watched as far back as I can remember, I used to enjoy watching teams other then the Reds, but this season I have zero interest and have instead been watching NRL matches instead. 5 years ago that was incomprehensible.

there’s just no engagement there for me to be interested in those other Super Rugby teams, I can name more Tahs/Rebels players then Rabbitohs but there’s still no engagement, there doesn’t seem to be as much passion or rivalry between the Super Rugby teams.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I don’t know what it is but this season has been the least amount of super rugby I’ve watched as far back as I can remember, I used to enjoy watching teams other then the Reds, but this season I have zero interest and have instead been watching NRL matches instead. 5 years ago that was incomprehensible.

there’s just no engagement there for me to be interested in those other Super Rugby teams, I can name more Tahs/Rebels players then Rabbitohs but there’s still no engagement, there doesn’t seem to be as much passion or rivalry between the Super Rugby teams.

It's the general lack of engagement as a whole. If you don't have Foxtel or Kayo you don't see nor hear of Super Rugby. It's just a non-entity for most people when you're scrolling through the channels as opposed to the likes of the NRL and AFL where you cannot get through a sports cast without seeing 3 or 4 stories about each every night. One of the biggest failings of SANZAAR and RA is the total lack of marketing and promotion of the games and the competition as a whole.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

H
How about this as a future oz conference (note it assumes merger of Super Rugby and GRR) which assumes World League gets up and assists in providing valuable funding and increased commercial interest in rugby in oz to make what I propose as viable.

1. Waratahs
2. Reds
3. Rebels
4. Brumbies
5. Force
6. Fiji
7. Samoa
8. Sunwolves

Why not just join GRR? Seriously. Having watched a number of the games this year the teams in GRR are only a few good quality pros from being reasonably competitive options. The variations seem to have had their intended effect. Why not?

 

[wamberal]

Why not just join GRR? Seriously. Having watched a number of the games this year the teams in GRR are only a few good quality pros from being reasonably competitive options. The variations seem to have had their intended effect. Why not?

Do you mean the variations to the Laws of the Game? They will only have "their intended effect" when they are adopted by WR (World Rugby), which seems extremely unlikely, to put it mildly.

Rightly or wrongly, we would face an unpalatable choice, being part of a schism in the game. Okay for a season or two but only for a bit of fun.

 

[hoggy]

Why not just join GRR? Seriously. Having watched a number of the games this year the teams in GRR are only a few good quality pros from being reasonably competitive options. The variations seem to have had their intended effect. Why not?

Just wondering if you could make Ten teams to have a viable number, a 2nd team in NSW and potentially two more teams from Asia, also i just wonder if Samoa would be able to support a team, I know we are looking at far lower budgets, but I just doubt they would have the ability, unless privately funded.