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Where to for Super Rugby?

Discussion in 'Rugby Discussion' started by Quick Hands, Mar 5, 2017.

  1. hoggy Jim Clark (26)

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    So how do you think the Kiwis with All Blacks as the prime driver are going to treat a TT comp any differently than Super rugby, My comparison with the AFL/NRL is because they are our competition for eyeballs.

    Okay fill your Aus teams with 60-70% Kiwis if they let you, or a bunch of SA/Argentinean journeyman, because you won't be able to afford the good ones.
  2. hoggy Jim Clark (26)

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    Maybe it could work, but the Kiwis would have to accept the competition as a stand alone professional competition with equalization that would bring, and I'm just not convinced they will, but looks like its what we're gonna get so I hope your right.
  3. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    Like it or not, rugby is an international game and the game is far healthier internationally than it is here.

    We are at least partly reliant on having a product that attracts interest overseas to generate revenue. That is going to be far easier if we have New Zealand's quality as part of it rather than just our own teams/players.

    It's also going to need private equity but I feel like that competition has a far greater opportunity of having the sort of international interest that would make investment attractive.
  4. The Honey Badger Peter Johnson (47)

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    Isn't that the very same argument that says a domestic comp will engage supporters and viewers?
  5. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    Yes, people use that as a big reason why having a domestic comp will be more popular.

    I just don't agree. I think the quality of the overall competition and derived from that how much the fans care about it has a far bigger impact than believing your team has a better chance of winning.

    Avoiding playing NZ teams regularly because we don't win often enough isn't a recipe for a successful competition in my view.
  6. Adam84 Peter Fenwicke (45)

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    So You’re suggesting the only players who would move to Australian teams are those who aren’t good enough to play super rugby now? Does this not then come back to the competitiveness issue. Who said there is no product which exists, I can assure you NZRU are not putting all their eggs in ta 5v5 trans Tasman comp, they’ll be looking at South Africa and Japan closely, and they’ll have COAs on the table with only 3 Aussie teams.

    As for the rest of it, well yeah, this whole concept might be dead before it even begins because Australia can’t field 5 competitive teams, even if it grabs the leftovers from the Itm cup..

    My comments have nothing to do with viewing this as a development company for international rugby, my comments are purely about a supply vs demand issue.
  7. Adam84 Peter Fenwicke (45)

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    Correct, they have a pathway which works, and they won’t simply want to compromise that because Australia demands 5 Teams in a trans Tasman comp
  8. qwerty51 George Gregan (70)

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    Where do you think the next Super Rugby players for NZ come from? Apart from young players, the next guys coming up did so through the Mitre 10 Cup. They just need an opportunity. Plenty of those types going around in NZ atm but given there's only 5 pro teams in NZ they aren't getting them. It's also not as if the Aus team is going to be filled with them, it's just giving those Mitre 10 Cup players the bench spots in a match over guys whose ceiling in Aus should be club rugby.

    NZ might want to do something with South Africa sure but as of right now, with Covid, they ain't doing shit in 2021. NZ needs the TT as much as we do. They're kidding if they think they have a sustainable comp with just them in it. The Mitre 10 loses money. Aetoaera has had a good start but mainly because it off a long break with sport starved eye balls. Let's see how good the crowds are in week 8 when the same fucking teams are playing each other again. 2 matches a week in NZ and in total. You're kidding.
    eastman and Rugbynutter39 like this.
  9. eastman Ted Thorn (20)

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    Their pathway has worked up to this point due mainly to the funding off the success of the All Blacks but also from the funding received from the Super Rugby format, which has enabled that success.

    Rugby in New Zealand and Australia, like it or not, are intrinsically linked. If New Zealand wants to keep paying their top stars to remain in NZ, they need rugby in Australia to be in a relatively strong position due to; a) the size of the Australian economy (and potential) relative to NZ, b) a dismal Wallabies team (historically one of your main and most popular opponents) does not bode well for the All Blacks and future revenue, as interest dwindles.

    Now I'm not saying that the NZ Rugby should be treating as Aus Rugby as a charity case (and they won't) but there will need to be some form of compromise to ensure the long-term success of rugby in the region.
  10. eastman Ted Thorn (20)

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    Focus on the product, and ensuring that the product is as strong and enticing as possible. If the product is more attractive with New Zealand and a decent spread of New Zealand players across all teams - so be it.
    Rugbynutter39 likes this.
  11. qwerty51 George Gregan (70)

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    Yeah I just laugh at the suggestions we need NZ and they don't need us. We both need each other. There's just no way they can go on their own and only make a profit on only the All Blacks brand.

    Also don't forget their main income source of AIG are leaving after 2021.
    Rugbynutter39 likes this.
  12. Adam84 Peter Fenwicke (45)

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    I think some people on here have an expectation of charity, i don't understand why there’s an expectation thaf NZRU should support 5 Aussie teams? I’m just being pragmatic in that I don’t think NZRU will be so forthcoming, they have little to gain between the difference of 3 Aussie teams, or 5.. yet a whole lot to lose.
  13. Adam84 Peter Fenwicke (45)

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    Man this comes back to my original point in that you’re asking New Zealand to compromise their own depth, and ultimately devalue their own teams just to sustain extra Australian teams. You’re either targeting new Zealand a future super rugby players, or new Zealands ITM cup who aren’t good enough for a NZ super rugby team.

    Do you really not see how NZRU would have concerns over this scenario? It’s like suggesting the establishment of the Rebels or Force wouldn’t impact on the Brumbies, Reds or Waratahs because they’re only recruiting players not signed by those teams.
  14. qwerty51 George Gregan (70)

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    How are they compromising their own depth if those players are still eligible for the All Blacks!?! That's the whole point.

    They're discards for their current Super teams. It's in their interest to make the comp even so it generates more revenue.
    The Honey Badger and eastman like this.
  15. Brumby Runner John Eales (66)

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    BH, I think this is precisely what a lot of fans here want to see, especially after the poor efforts dished up by SANZAAR over recent years. I wouldn't be averse to a competition that guaranteed an Aussie winner each year and more local derbies, if it can be supplemented by a TT Champions Cup.
    Kevinsons, The Honey Badger and hoggy like this.
  16. eastman Ted Thorn (20)

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    It's probably been raised one million times here, but I don't think Rugby Australia should be designing their competition around the preferences of greenandgold forum users if they are interested in growth and sustainability (longer than 10 years).

    It would be interesting to poll the preferences of GAGR users under the age of 35 compared to those over it - I think you'd end up with some contrasting results.
  17. Silverado Nev Cottrell (35)

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    Of course they don't design their policies on posts here. It's pure speculation without the benefit of back stories that's just a bit of fun. I'd be interested in a poll of GAGR posters who are under 35.
  18. The Honey Badger Peter Johnson (47)

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    I think you are arguing for a 6 team domestic comp, which would be 3 games for each Aus and NZ.

    They will be different broadcasters for each market
  19. kiap Mark Ella (57)

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    I'm not sure emphasing that has much pertinence. There have been different broadcasters for each market since 1996 (or even 1986).

    RA (and for that mattter NZR, SARU and the rest) will still need to test matches to survive. They'll try to package up all their wares to flog in their own market and beyond.

    That approach will continue and, of itself, doesn't lock in any given competition format.
  20. hoggy Jim Clark (26)

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    Yes, there would be separate broadcast deals and I doubt if the kiwis would be interested in a 6th team anyway, but Foxtel & Sky need content, with all teams involved in a champions league at the culmination of the domestic component. I think it overall would be more attractive for the broadcasters when you can schedule 6 games over the weekend.
    kiap likes this.

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