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Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

Discussion in 'Rugby Discussion' started by dru, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. Boof1050 Ward Prentice (10)

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    Mate it doesn't help when the players due to contracting etc have been allowed to become mediocre. Nor does it help when players that are performing far better than some in national side get told nah you're not gonna make the chop because you're not aligned with the right side etc. Nor does it help the brand of rugby when we still have this outdated and shit coaching practices in place because some has been says we should play that way. We have the players available just the attitudes of some involved in the sides and admin are culprits holding Australian rugby to ransom. Fuck them off out of the game and we'd e far more successful. But that would mean some pretty harsh self analysis.
  2. Highlander35 Paul McLean (56)

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    I made a way too long post so I started again. I think that's a little harsh, as it's the first time we've really been able to spend money on bringing in Aussies since Higginbotham before the 2013 Season.

    The first 2.5 years mostly under private ownership were a shitshow in both recruitment and development, insomuch that they failed to reach about 40% of the local talent, provided little benefit beyond what VRU were achieving prior to the Rebels, and recruited abysmally, first with the Golden Oldies, then the young guns. Only 3 players are contracted for 2018 from the first 3 seasons.

    Whereas now Victorian youngsters are being brought through:

    Fereti Sa'aga (1 year Aus U20s, into 4th year of Rising, lots of Rebels Caps this Season)
    Rob Leota (1 Year Aus U20s, 1 Year Rising, Injured ACL in NRC2016 expected back before the end of the tournament)
    Jordan Uelese (2 Years Aus U20s, 2 Years Rising, 3 Rebels games and 1 Wallabies Cap)
    Ikapotae Tupai (1 Year Aus U20s, 2 years Rising, Extended Rebels squad in 2017)
    Hunter Paisami (1 Year Samoa U20s, First Year in Rising)
    Esei Ha'angana (First Year Rising, Rebels debut this season as 1 year old)

    Plus guys like Trevor Hosea (finishing Schooling in Brisbane, committed to coming home in 2018), Rob Valetini (Rebels U20s and Rising in 2016, nicked by the Brumbies) and JP Sauni (Uelese's Rebels U20 backup in 2016, went to NZ and was the Baby Blacks Backup hooker this season).

    We're getting there. It's taken a longer time than we'd hoped, but we are getting there.
  3. wamberal Simon Poidevin (60)

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    That was then, this is now. Unfortunately our teams seem to have gone backwards at a rate of knots, the New Zealand teams have all moved ahead even more quickly.

    The Tahs won pretty much on the back of Potgieter, IMHO. Take him out of the equation and they would not have.
  4. Rugbynutter39 Peter Sullivan (51)

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    Interesting what Laurie Fisher stated about loss of our Academies..as yes certainly can see success in Northern Hemisphere read: England, has been based on Academies identifying talent early and developing them.
  5. WorkingClassRugger Mark Ella (57)

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    It is hard to argue considering the quality of player those academies have been producing in recent years. The England U20s are always very, very good and title contenders.
    Rugbynutter39 and Silverado like this.
  6. Rugbynutter39 Peter Sullivan (51)

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    Worth googling this latest article from Wayne Smith titled
    "ARU to consider Wallabies eligibility for Twiggy Forrest’s IPC players"

    Looks like FF on the money where TWF looking to start his 6 team IPL from the get go and to be standard of English Premiership etc. Not looking to morph (at least initially) into the NRC.

    Wallaby eligibility will be the key for keeping players of the calibre wanted to match English Premiership standard, and equally ability to fill other teams with comparable competition. Tough uphill battle and will take a lot of money so hope Twiggy has people like Jack Ma on board.
  7. Highlander35 Paul McLean (56)

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  8. Jimmyjam Herbert Moran (7)

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    As I remarked, "When one team is particularly strong, we have 2 teams that are basket cases. When the talent is more evenly distributed we have 5 ordinary teams. ie 2017"
  9. Strewthcobber Paul McLean (56)

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    Now of course pay does not equal quality, but if he's going to be trying to attract players at a premiership standard the current salary cap is 7million gbp or around $11.5m aud per team

    Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk
    wamberal likes this.
  10. wamberal Simon Poidevin (60)

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    Not to mention the intangibles. Lifestyle, national representation, taxation rules. Proximity to friends and family (or distance from them!!)
  11. Aurelius Fred Wood (13)

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    [quote="Highlander35, post: 970595, member: 8102&quot in 2017)
    We're getting there. It's taken a longer time than we'd hoped, but we are getting there.[/quote]

    I hope so. Lord knows the Force went down the path of buying talent, and while we achieved a couple of years of respectable mid-table finishes, ultimately the talent didn't stay when the money ran out, and we were so dependant on those players that we fell into a vicious cycle that it took us years to drag ourselves out of. I thought that was probably what the Rebels were going through this year, actually, so they'll need to make sure they get more than a sugar hit out of their imported stars if they want to really get where we were starting to go.
  12. Rugbynutter39 Peter Sullivan (51)

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    Read the article as that what Stookes was quoted as saying ie Standard of English and French professional game
  13. Rugbynutter39 Peter Sullivan (51)

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    ARU to consider Wallabies eligibility for Twiggy Forrest’s IPC players
    The Australian
    12:00AM September 12, 2017
    Wayne Smith
    Senior sport writer

    The Australian Rugby Union has another weighty decision to make: whether to allow players who sign with Andrew “Twiggy” Forrest’s Indo-Pacific Championship to be eligible for Wallabies selection.

    Only those footballers playing Super Rugby, who have signed with a Super Rugby club for the following season or those overseas-based Wallabies who have played a minimum of 60 Tests can be selected for Australia.

    This was one of the items discussed when Forrest met Michael Cheika last week and while it is understood the Wallabies coach was generally supportive of the idea, he made it clear he wanted to see a definitive competition model before considering it.

    And as much as the ARU defers to Cheika in matters relating to the national side, player eligibility status almost certainly would need to be discussed and approved at board level.

    Giving eligibility to Forrest’s players could potentially undermine the competitiveness of the four remaining Australian teams in Super Rugby.

    One of the main reasons for removing the Western Force was to improve the on-field performances of the Waratahs, Reds, Brumbies and Rebels. But if Forrest broadens his approach to attract players beyond the current Force squad — which may not happen this year because virtually all players are signed for 2018 — then it could start undermining the ARU’s position.

    The ARU remained upbeat about the prospects of working with Forrest and his IPC concept, though at this stage it regards the talks as preliminary.

    “Everyone is positive but at this stage we don’t know precisely what sort of competition we’re talking about,” an ARU spokesman said yesterday.

    The ARU is pushing for Forrest to take the National Rugby Championship and dramatically expand it, pushing its boundaries out into the Pacific islands and Asia, as outlined in T he Australian yesterday. But, yet again, there may have been some miscommunication between the two camps.

    It may well be that the IPC expands over time into that space, particularly if the NRC becomes the mainstay of any post-Super Rugby solution, but according to former ARU board member Geoff Stooke, now a key voice in structuring the IPC, Forrest is planning a credible six-team competition from the get-go.

    “The quality of the competition has to be such that viewers would rate it as the equivalent of the English Premiership or the French Top 14,” said Stooke. “It can’t be a lower echelon than that.”

    Clearly, the NRC is not yet up to that standard and while Stooke could see the IPC augmenting the NRC at some point, all the indications are that the IPC is aiming higher at a quality product.

    Forrest is scheduled to unveil more details about the IPC at a press conference tomorrow.

    Yet even if he can persuade the Force players to stick together (he met their Wallabies representatives over the weekend) the issue then will be whether he can populate the five other Asia-based teams with players of comparable ability.

    The other contentious issue is whether World Rugby gives approval for the IPC to go international. By happy coincidence, Forrest’s concept melds almost ideally with World Rugby’s plans to push into Asia — World Rugby’s chief executive Brett Gosper acknowledges that the Chinese Rugby Football Association expects to have one million players within five years — so there may well be some synergy in the coming years.

    For the moment, however, a World Rugby spokesman said the organisation would be guided by the ARU’s assessment of the viability and credibility of the new concept.

    Meanwhile, Cheika has responded to the Wallabies lineout winning only 64 per cent of their own ball against the Springboks by bringing Reds lock Lukhan Tui into the squad for Saturday’s Canberra Test against Argentina at the expense of fellow Kane Douglas.

    Tui was a standout performer in Brisbane City’s opening NRC match against the Fijian Drua but the consensus was that he was overshadowed by fellow Wallabies squad member Izack Rodda in the clash with Queensland Country on Saturday.

    It would not surprise to see one of the two Reds youngsters brought into the matchday 23 on the weekend, and maybe even into the starting XV. Certainly it is fair to say they have captured the attention of current starting lock Rory Arnold.

    “Absolutely, I’m looking over my shoulder at these young bucks coming through, pushing me for selection,” said Arnold yesterday.
  14. Strewthcobber Paul McLean (56)

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    Geoff Stooke
    Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk
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  15. James Pettifer Bob Loudon (25)

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    You missed Sione Tuipulotu who is also 20 and has 11 Rebels games.

    I suspect you meant Esei was 18 not 1 when he debuted!

    It takes time to develop the pathways and to see players from their mid-teens through to being ready for SuperRugby. Definitely doing better than the Storm who have been around for 20 years and (from a very quick look) don't have any Victorian born players in the squad (they have a couple who moved here pretty young)
  16. RugbyFuture Lord Logo

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    Well shit, wouldn't want to be one of those little ones. If anyone's offering no thanks! I only want real billionaires...come to us with proper money..
    Aurelius likes this.
  17. dru Paul McLean (56)

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    Ok Ok. All those number challenged millionaires looking to offload funds, come to me. I'm not fussy.
  18. James Pettifer Bob Loudon (25)

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    ARU revenue for 2016 $128 million
    Twiggy income for 2017 $460 million

    So from his income for 2017, he could completely fund the ARU (or an equivalent) for 3 years assuming no income from any broadcasting, ticket sales or sponsorship.
  19. TOCC Guest

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    Press conference to be held today to announce more details..

    Currently TF is still pushing ahead with his own model seperate from the NRC, likely 6 team comp.
  20. chibimatty Jimmy Flynn (14)

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    I wouldn't mind if the ideas and competitions were separate in the short term, I would hate that the ARU just scrap the NRC because Twiggy comes along. If he can develop something which is WA and the Asia-Pacific, which exists at a different time of year and geographical area to the NRC and club finals, then possibly in the future something can grow out of it organically.

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