Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[Boof1050]

Just concur with BH on this one. I am supporting it. I will support it.

But we can have a debate here on the inner workings of the comp itself without it being a rejection of the concept as a whole.
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Good call Barbar. I have heard on the grape vine that Jack Ma may be involved somewhere along the line. And with his wealth and connections and an attractive product to go with it hopefully it’ll kick a goal get stronger. At least at this stage we aren’t being dictated to by other nations with their own agendas. Some serious coin is being spent too.

 

[Killer]

Just concur with BH on this one. I am supporting it. I will support it.

But we can have a debate here on the inner workings of the comp itself without it being a rejection of the concept as a whole.
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Yes I know you support it, I was saying why wouldn't one support it.
I also think we need to keep at the forefront of our thought is how weak Australian rugby is.
It is dying bit by bit, no visibility, rarely in the news, low ticket sales, debt, reliance on other countries, grassroots and juniors cutbacks etc
The current trajectory is poor at best.

 

[Braveheart81]

Australian rugby has always relied on other countries. It is the nature of the game being based in international competition.

Everyone agrees that rugby is not in a healthy position in Australia.

 

[Killer]

Australian rugby has always relied on other countries. It is the nature of the game being based in international competition.

Everyone agrees that rugby is not in a healthy position in Australia.

Potentially in its death throes, might be a good time for RA to discard its ego and genuinely support the IPRC concept.

 

[barbarian]

The current trajectory is poor at best.

Which is why we need the IPRC to be as good a competition as it can possibly be. And my worry is a series of floggings by the Force will just add to the issues, not solve them.

Now it could well be totally unfounded, of course, and there is still a lot happening behind the scenes that I don't know about. but there wouldn't be much point to the forum if we let that stop us!
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[kiap]

I think the Sugar Daddies are more important here than the supporter base, but I see your point.

Most definitely, at least initially.

But the difference between Samoa and Hong Kong is that Samoa has very little chance of getting to the level of having a self-sustaining pro rugby team that plays internationally. Semi-pro NRC level perhaps at best for Samoa unless there is continual World Rugby (or other external) funding.

In Australia, you look at Canberra. It's got a fair rugby supporter base with good disposable income but, even there, the future looks a bit marginal. That's with twice the population and four times the household income of Samoa.

And where the main squeeze will come on Super Rugby is not—as some are asserting—from South Africa suddenly pulling up stumps, but rather the downgrade in the competition's commercial value, regardless, across the board in the traditional home markets. SANZAAR will have to cut their cloth.

 

[Braveheart81]

Potentially in its death throes, might be a good time for RA to discard its ego and genuinely support the IPRC concept.

Rugby Australia generated $127.8m revenue in 2016. The game is increasing in popularity globally and Australia remains one of the best teams in the world.

I'd suggest you're over-egging the pudding a bit.

Our biggest problems are the popularity and viability of the competition where the bulk of our pro players earn their living (Super Rugby) and junior participation numbers which create the next generation of players and fans. Primarily I would say creating the next generation of fans is the biggest issue here as the growth in the professional game globally is driving interest amongst talented players.

 

[kiap]

Rugby Australia generated $127.8m revenue in 2016. The game is increasing in popularity globally and Australia remains one of the best teams in the world.

I'd suggest you're over-egging the pudding a bit.

Are you suggesting that Clyne & Pulver and co. were simply crying wolf for the last three years?

It was all a big laugh and rugby in Australia is actually in rude health.

Good as gold, but stupid as mud. Carry on regardless …

(not you, them)

 

[barbarian]

The KPI for the IPRC shouldn't be to save Australian rugby, though. It should just be to save WA rugby. If any benefits can come to the nation as a whole then great, but let's crawl before we can walk.......

 

[kiap]

The KPI for the IPRC shouldn't be to save Australian rugby, though. It should just be to save WA rugby.

That might be top of the list , but I think there are a few other goals.

Second on that list, I'd suggest, is to be part of the impetus to kick-start pro rugby in Asia (ex Japan). Won't be an overnight process but there is ore there to be mined there (sorry for the sandgroper gag).

As far as Rugby Australia is concerned, their best contribution will be to stop being a handbrake. If they keep riding Super Rugby as their only horse in the race then, frankly, they're stuffed.

Will they insist on showing the door to a guy willing to put multiples of millions of dollars a year into the game in this country? They already have, and I suspect they'll keep doing so. Even if the IPRC was an opportunity for Australian rugby, in the end you can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved.

 

[wamberal]

Ma-a-a-a-a-a-te. Professional rugby in Asia? In your dreams. Or should I say, in our dreams.


The PRC is the big hope, but the bloody PRC is not even competing in the top rank of Asian competition.


We could go throught the potential professional countries one by one, but it would be too depressing.


I have done a fair bit of strategic planning in my life, and one thing I learnt very early on is that it is totally essential to fully understand what is possible, and what is not, and to set realisable objectives.

 

[Boof1050]

Like I said earlier Wamberal let's stick with the status quo and quit the whinging then. Let's put our trust in Cameron, Raelene, North and the best of them all Rob Clarke! If you guys have got nothing positive or you think you and your team have got nothing to gain from exploring other options well piss around and rain on other people's parades.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

OK, now this "Asian rugby market" stuff



Does anyone actually believe there is a viable market and any public interest?



To me, it is a couple of expats and fringe dwellers outside of Japan



Now I would love it to be different, but can we have some reality here?



Where is this "market" Hong Kong? Singapore? Malaysia? Thailand? Korea?

Hk yes, Fiji yes...ok then I want to add japan....and then I struggle...maybe Singapore but less sure than others....Tonga and/or Samoa...financial basket cases so just can't see how that would be possible........

Sigh just have to wait I guess....

 

[fatprop]

Hk yes, Fiji yes.ok then I want to add japan..and then I struggle.maybe Singapore but less sure than others..Tonga and/or Samoa.financial basket cases so just can't see how that would be possible....

Sigh just have to wait I guess..

The challenge is even Fiji isn't actually a viable option without vast financial support.

funding the logistics is a massive issue, airfares, accommodation & wages (they do have to compete with Europe for their best players) It is a big issue for the super Rugby sides, let alone a near third world country

HK would be essentially a mercenary army, so who funds it? The are plenty of wealthy individuals in HK, but the ones I have ever dealt with would have little interest in funding a money losing enterprise for years. That just isn't their mindset.

 

[wamberal]

I know a bit about sport in Asia (although the first thing to get right is that "Asia" is huge, and very diverse).


To generalise wildly.

Sport per se is not as significant part of popular culture as it tends to be in Anglo-Saxon countries. Professional sport even less.


The sports that are the most popular in terms of spectator appeal tend to be the ones that are good for gambling on.


In most of the countries that have been mentioned as potential rugby competition hosts, there is a paucity of rugby grounds.


And in virtually all, if not all, of the countries that are spruiked as potential rugby friendly, there is very little, if any, organised rugby being played. And when there is, it tends to be dominated by expats, particularly at the admin level.


Just a couple of other observations. Singapore hosted the Global Tens. We happened to be there a week or so before the event, there was a bit of street advertising. It drew a derisory crowd, in a top flight air conditioned stadium.


Professional rugby exists in Japan because, for some arcane reason, big corporations get a lot of "face" from having a competitive rugby team.

Other possible entrants in a new competition, Tonga for example, do not have adequate facilities, two stadiums, both pretty primitive, frankly (although this could have changed in the 20 years since I spent time there, although I doubt it). And Tonga is an economic basket case.

 

[TOCC]

I don’t think anyone expects it to be easy

 

[wamberal]

I don’t think anyone expects it to be easy

Nobody who lives east of Perth.

 

[dru]

Nobody who lives east of Perth.

Wrong. Perth fans see it as "easier" than the shit stick offered by the shrinking ARU. It is in no way what any single Perth fan actually wanted.

 

[chibimatty]

I must admit, I think it's pretty cool to see all three Pacific Island teams here in a calender year, and Hong Kong for that matter. I can't remember the last time so many national sides were in Perth, maybe only the 2003 RWC?

 

[wamberal]

Having lived in Hong Kong for about 15 bloody years, I can assure you all that the chances of Hong Kong maintaining a professional rugby franchise on an on-going basis are slightly better than the chances for a franchise on Mars.