1. Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Will Tony Abbott lead the Coalition at the next election?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Ali's Choice, Dec 8, 2011.

?

Will Tony Abbott lead the Coalition at the next election?

Yes 14 vote(s) 63.6%
No 8 vote(s) 36.4%
  1. Ali's Choice Jimmy Flynn (14)

    Likes Received:
    130
    I think that it is perhaps a bit early to start criticising the uptake of the NBN, given that is hasn't been implemented in many places and the nature of telecommunications in this country ensures that most people are on longterm contracts. Like all major infrastructure, the real benefits of the NBN will become apparent in the longterm.

    And as for the BER, the Ogrill Report found that a total of 332 complaints were lodged about the BER spending, most relating to value for money. That was approximately 3% of all projects, well within accepted industry standards. When you consider the the fact that this was first and foremost an economic stimulus, and the focus was on getting this program delivered quickly, such relatively low numbers of complaints are a testament to the way this program was implemented. I don't think anyone would argue that had the govt had 10 years to spend the BER money, jobs would have been delivered more cheaply. But as this was an economic stimulus, time was clearly of the essence.
  2. Ruggo Mark Loane (55)

    Likes Received:
    3,313
    Neither does Tony. He's not a tech head. :)
  3. Karl Bill McLean (32)

    Likes Received:
    353
    Swan got that award by default in my view because our economy was well positioned before his tenure and insulated due to our resources sector - and it enabled him throw enough money at things that the waste and missed opportunity to do something meaningful was ameliorated when judged just on the criteria of "did we avoid a technical recession." The ALP Stimulus measures were about as sophisticated as an Adam Sandler comedy.

    Oh - I forgot to mention the Schools building funding that was largely squandered by schools and rorted massively by shonky builders. I see the evidence of that shambolic mess everytime I look at the utterly useless eysore of a shade structure that covers part only of my kid's school pool, at a height and oriented in such a way that the sun usually shines under it anyway and which obsures previously uninterruputed viewing from parts of the grandstands around the pool. The uprights actually had seats cut around them. What was there already was far more effective and could have been "renovated" quite cheaply, but no - someone wanted a grand structure because it's well, grand, and free.

    The NBN is going to cost AT LEAST 43 BILLION dollars and what the public were told about what the NBN would deliver was about as accurate as when Gillard said there wouldn't be a Carbon Tax. And that 43Bill is gonna be a lot more. Then wait for the dodgy installers, just like the Pink Batts.
  4. boyo Peter Johnson (47)

    Likes Received:
    726
    In Sydney, Melbourne, etc.. internet speeds may be OK, but outside these areas internet speeds are generally crap.
  5. Schadenfreude John Solomon (38)

    Likes Received:
    685
    Imagine you're a large company in Sydney, and you have a large call centre. Each person you employ come with a hefty "Sydney tax" real estate and costs are very high, and because there's so much competition all your talented people leave.

    Enter the NBN.

    You can now move your call centre to Rockhampton, with 15% (guessing) unemployment. The mayor parades you around like a long lost savior, real estate is cheap, labour is cheap, no one will ever leave you because there's no where else to go, and you profit margin grows massively.

    The NBN will stop businesses having to move to a major centre to be competitive. Which is a great move for the entire country. Rural areas can keep their talented people local - and the entire country becomes more productive.

    I'm sure there's some way it could be used to deny the human rights of refugees, bash gays, and promote family (christian) values to make it appeal to the wider community.
  6. Ali's Choice Jimmy Flynn (14)

    Likes Received:
    130

    The ALPs stimulus was actually very clever. Targeting key employment sectors (construction, building and logistics) through a nation wide program.

    One of their key challenges was to ensure their stimulus measures benefited all Australians, both in the major cities as well as in rural areas. Every small town has a school, ensuring that there were short term employment opportunities for workers and contractors right across Australia.

    The Coalition opposed virtually all of the ALP's stimulus spending. They felt it was more important to retain some of their budgetary surplus than to save jobs and keep businesses afloat. Strange, given that the overall impact on Australia's economy of falling into recession, in terms of falling tax receipts and increased welfare spending, would have soon eaten away this surplus anyway.

    Regardless of whether you agreed with the stimulus or not, the fact is it worked. Throughout the period the Opposition declared that this stimulus would not be effective. Yet in reality, it achieved its goal of avoiding recession.
    bryce likes this.
  7. Ruggo Mark Loane (55)

    Likes Received:
    3,313
    Pink batts should of never happened. Asbestos erradication would have been a better way of injecting money through the construction centre. Our local GP super clinic is a total white eliphant also. This doesn't translate to a vote of confidence in those idiots in the coalition.
  8. Ali's Choice Jimmy Flynn (14)

    Likes Received:
    130
    Pink batts was a very good idea, which was ultimately brought down by the greed and dishonesty of a few companies. Perhaps we could contrast the cost of the pink batts to the Collins Submarine and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter debacles? Programs supported and funded by the Howard govt.
  9. Ruggo Mark Loane (55)

    Likes Received:
    3,313
    Stimulous through the construction was a good idea but home insulation wasn't. The fact it could be exployted by cowboys tells me so. Asbestos removal is already highly regulated and once it has been removed, construction work is there for several different trades.

    This shit kills people and we had a good chance to remove volumes of it though pissed the opportunity away with home insulation. Some very good nation building works came out of the stimulous no doubt but I don't think this particular one was very bright.

    For the record I say this as a traditional Labor voter.

    Our GP super clinic does nothing we were told it would. We were told it would be sifisticated enough to ease the pressure off A&E at Royal Darwin Hospital.
  10. Schadenfreude John Solomon (38)

    Likes Received:
    685
    Except the purpose of stimulus is to spend money, and quickly. Other countries printed money or did the equivalent with "quantitative easing".
  11. Ali's Choice Jimmy Flynn (14)

    Likes Received:
    130
    Does your GP Super clinic bulk bill? Because if it does, than it will be easing pressure of Royal Darwin A&E. A high percentage of admissions to A&E are patients who could be seen by GPs, but choose the hospital because they can't find a doctor to bulk bill.
  12. bryce Darby Loudon (17)

    Likes Received:
    156
    I think Labor did a great job with the economy. They surprised me. Australia was about the only developed country to avoid recession during the GFC. Yeah, they wasted money, but they had to move quickly, so there were always going to be mistakes. I'd rather see some wasted spending and 5% unemployment and economic growth than being overly cautious and worry about a relatively small deficit, and then letting the economy go into recession. Besides, our deficit is low anyway. There is a ridiculous obsession with the budget surplus in Australia. And it wasn't just the mining boom that saved us back then. Mining took a substantial hit during the GFC.

    Maybe it's because I live overseas and I see just how bad things are in Europe. Each time I go home I marvel at how well things are going, particularly the economy. Labor's biggest problem is a complete inability to sell their success. It's funny, whenever you read about Australia, especially its economy, in the international media, it is about how much of a success the place has been over the past few years. I just would find it hard to argue that the government has been completely incompetent when they've produced the economic numbers they have over the past few years in the midst of global economic turmoil.
  13. cyclopath Rod McCall (65)

    Likes Received:
    6,359
    Hmm, they inherited a huge chunk of change, spent it to stimulate the economy (in retrospect spent it very poorly on hastily concocted and shoddily managed schemes rather than really useful infrastructure), got a big leg up from the ongoing mining boom (yeah, they took a bit of a hit, but look at them now). I wouldn't over-credit them with being financial genii. They may not be complete dunces, and neither do I think the Libs were the architects of financial wonder that they like to paint themselves. Seriously, how anyone can call the pink batts / school sheds and now NBN good ideas in their current form is beyond me. An efficient NBN could be developed at less cost than this model. Just wait for the real blowouts in its implementation.
    Karl likes this.
  14. yourmatesam Bill McLean (32)

    Likes Received:
    291
  15. Ali's Choice Jimmy Flynn (14)

    Likes Received:
    130
    Indeed. That's why any Super clinics will in fact alleviate pressure on local hospitals.
  16. cyclopath Rod McCall (65)

    Likes Received:
    6,359
    The reasons hospitals grind to a halt are complex, and go way beyond punters turning up with sore throats and headaches. Yeah, that's a factor, but the chronic under-funding of hospitals in terms of beds, staffed operating theatres and doctors and nurses goes a long way to explain it. What area in health has grown by well over 150% over the past 10 years? Administration. Percentage growth in numbers of nurses and specialist doctors - a few % or neutral in most areas. Who manage this whole mess? Not hard to work out.
    Superclinics become little more than pill-dispensing centres, and provide little real improvement in health care delivery. Improving GP services - all for it. Superclinics - sound good in campaign sound-bites.
    waratahjesus and Karl like this.
  17. Sully Steve Williams (59)

    Likes Received:
    3,684
    Bit harsh to blame the Government for things that haven't happened yet. and how long do the Libs get to claim the economy as their darling?
  18. cyclopath Rod McCall (65)

    Likes Received:
    6,359
    I mentioned the bit about the Libs in my post. They're not the gurus they like to think. Not blaming them, but I just expect it to blowout massively. If I am wrong, I'll be happy to eat humble pie.
  19. Lior Herbert Moran (7)

    Likes Received:
    37
    I think both sides of politics are absolute crap right now.

    Labor dug themselves into a hole with this surplus nonsense, had Swan when the floods hit said that they would delay it for a year, it would be so much easier for them. To the average idiotic voter they will look like idiots.

    I get a little annoyed with this Peter Costello nonsense. Don't get me wrong, I think Wayne Swan is a fruit cake. Costello created a GST which was good policy, and I respect Howard significantly for taking it to an election. However aside from that his spending was just as much as Wayne Swan, he didn't reform welfare, and he kept the family payments system going. I think he's good, but he's not great. Same goes for Swan. The real reforms took place in the Hawke/Keating and early Howard years, and as well as WorkChoices. Unfortunately Labor party got rid of WorkChoices, which makes the Australian Labour market uncompetitive in many ways with the rest of the world.

    Abbott is really a social conservative, not really an economic Liberal. This really worries me. He has ruled out any major IR reform which in my opinion is necessary. He has ruled out raising the GST to 12.5 % which I also think is necessary in the long run for states to get rid of their inefficient and idiotic taxes (payroll and stamp duty for example). Nor does he have the ticker to privatise Australia Post which I think should be sold off immediately as their is no better time.

    Gillard and Swan have wasted billions on idiotic programs, and that stimulus nonsense they put up should have been substantially less. I would accept that they could have thrown a couple of dollars at should I say touchy areas of the economy, but they could have delayed their re-regulation of the workplace as well as substantially lowering income and business taxes.

    Reality is for someone like me; their aren't many politicians who fit my description, there are previous examples of John Hewson, Malcolm Turnbull and arguably Paul Keating and Bob Hawke (besides for their union affiliation).

    I hope Turnbull takes over, as many people I know do, we might finally see a real Liberal Party. I don't see a problem with Julie Bishop either, sure you might not like how she will sell out on a issue like boat people but at least she's a fiscal conservative. That's what I want to see. I hope Abbott doesn't last. Greg Hunt doesn't seem to bad either.
  20. Lindommer Peter Sullivan (51)

    Likes Received:
    1,652
    I hesitate to engage a medico when discussing the politics of health management in Australia but it brings up a pet subject of mine: Commonwealth/State relationships. Hospitals are "paid for" by the states (albeit with a hefty Commonwealth contribution) while health is paid for by the Commonwealth. At every turn in the public hospital systems the states have a vested interest in billing the Commonwealth for anything they can, that's why you're pulling your Medicare card out for any MEDICAL service your local hospital delivers. Personally, I'm not in favour of the Commonwealth taking over the various hospital systems as I philosophically don't think the Commonwealth's role is to deliver basic services. On this issue I'm at complete odds with the Labor Party.

    Taking this point further, what on earth is the Commonwealth doing interfering in school education? School education is/should wholly be the bailiwick of the states and I honestly can't see ANY role for the Commonwealth here. The former journo and eminence grise Max Walsh reckoned Australian governments wasted about $5bn a year on duplicated services, and that was 10 years ago! If anything it's become worse in the intervening period with do-gooders like KRudd dispensing laptops to 15 year old school students on top of the poorly-thought out BER policy. Gillard proposes the Commonwealth intervene to grade teachers and "reward" those who shine on their imaginery scale. Is the Commonwealth going to improve garbage collection next?

    On another note I'm married to a hospital health admin wallah. The money wasted in her (small) department would drive a sane man to tears.

Share This Page