Dingo Deans the only story in town… yawn!

Mick Coogan August 31, 2012 43

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‘I’ve always been black. I’ve been playing black all my life.’

Thank you so very much

This was celebrity rapist Mike Tyson’s confused response when asked a question about New Zealand’s national rugby team. While Mike doesn’t know about the All Blacks at all, the Wallabies wish they had that luxury. It was less than a week ago that they got a jolly good thwacking at Eden Park.

A lot has been written this week in the Kiwi press about Dingo’s admission of All Blacks dominance and SBW’s imminent departure from New Zealand. But it’s no surprise that during the past week the big story on everyone’s mind has been Dingo and his apparently imminent demise, particularly in the Aussie papers.

Now I don’t want to crack a Kiwi fat for Dingo’s comments about the All Blacks being a bridge too far. The reason being is that anything could happen between now and the next World Cup. Teams do catch up and teams can peak too early, yet I’ve seen little of this introspection in the Kiwi press, which is surprising as it’s happened to us far too many times before for us to be smug.

The All Blacks, while being stoic, are saying they haven’t reached their peak yet and still seek to improve their game.  The reality is it was some good Aussie defence that caused many of the All Blacks’ errors on offence. Steve Hansen practically said as much. Sure, Hansen may not be the most liked Kiwi across the ditch, but as a coach he’s actually a pretty good gauge of where the ABs are at. Indeed, Hansen’s comments in general rarely raise an eyebrow in the Aussie media; there’s only one coach the Aussies have an eye out for and that’s his opposite Dingo.

What the New Zealand press seem to be rabbiting on about is the gap between us and the rest of the world by using the Wallabies as a barometer. This is some extremely dubious logic. It remains to be seen if the Wallabies really are the number two team in the world.

Now, what follows may be a little rugged. But there is a little hope for you Wallabies supporters, as we shall see at the end. If we take a look at the remainder of the Aussies’ home games for this series, Ben Horne of the NZ Newswire pointed out their next opponents South Africa need only to beat the Wallabies in Perth on 8 of September to leap into third place. The Springboks are followed very closely by England and France in the IRB rankings.

According to AFP, Deans apparently has four Tests to save his job. Dingo, however, may have something of a lifeline as the Springboks have been hit with a woeful list of injuries this season, which have matched his own. We should also factor in Australia’s dominant record at home against the Springboks, not to mention Deans’s good track record against them .

The result — all barring some colossal screw-up [like Scotland or Samoa? – Ed.] — really should be a no-brainer. Thus this game likely won’t be the watershed moment for Deans as John Connolly said to Fox Sports. Nor will that moment come from the Argentinians. The Pumas play a similar game to the Boks’, though not quite as well. Thus I can see the Aussies winning the game in Brisbane pretty comfortably.

The watershed moments for Deans will likely be the two final Rugby Championship games of the season. I suspect these will be the most important fixtures for dear old Dingo. He has to front up against the Boks at altitude in Pretoria and then the Pumas in Buenos Aires; both teams have rabid home support and are notoriously difficult to beat in their own backyards.

If Deans can somehow navigate this minefield, he likely won’t do so unscathed; the hard pitches and sizeable physiques of the South Africans and Pumas forward packs are a readymade guarantee for injuries. He then faces the All Blacks in Brisbane on 20 October, in a rehearsal for the obligatory European tour.

Will Dingo be on that plane? Well, here’s the good news for all of you Dingo haters: I severely doubt it. Even if he survives the overseas legs of the Championship he’ll likely have an exhausted and injured Wallabies pack getting stuffed by an All Blacks team chafing at the bit to put a really big score on them. AFP missed this little nugget in its article.

In summary, Deans has had some unlucky moments with injuries, player attitudes and a lack of depth. Australians also forget that for the past decade all teams have had a pretty miserable record against the All Blacks, so maybe it’s not a fair gauge — a point of view shared by Simon Poidevin.

If he doesn’t survive this period, the post mortem for Deans in the Aussie press will likely read as follows in the next few months:

  • Deans has fallen flat by not embracing traditional Australian backline play. Its cunning and inventiveness have long kept the Wallabies in games, when their forwards were out on their feet. It’s also had the ability to turn lesser players on paper into world beaters.
  • Deans has failed to provide a front row that can at the very least get parity when it counts.
  • Nor has Deans developed a Plan B or game change, as has been pointed out by Scott Allen at GAGR.

Pundits in the Kiwi and Aussie media who once lauded Deans’s arrival in Australia stand shamefaced. They all forgot that Deans was part of the disastrous 2003 RWC All Blacks coaching team. In that losing semi-final there seemed to be no Plan B and there was nothing to counter the Wallabies. It was a display of attacking rugby even more hare-brained than any by the Wallabies against the ABs in recent memory.

 

Discussion »

  • Gus

    And if Deans does go, who will be his replacement? Not the desired replacement, but a real, available replacement.

    I honestly don’t think Mckenzie wants it at the moment. He has ‘done’ coaching for a few years running now and has set himself up in a role at QLD that provides himself with a whole range of new challenges that he won’t get as a coach. I think he’ll want to see what he can do with this role before even considering a Wallabies role.

    Who else is there that is willing and available to coach the international team? Is there a local available? Or do we look off shore again? Or do we run a captain/coach scenario where Horwill/Pocock/Genia (whoever is fit) organises the team and then throws the boots on.

    For the lack of having an obvious, suitable replacement I think we might see Deans hanging around a bit longer.

    • Mick Coogan

      Sadly mate I have to agree in some measure. The Wallabies are the poison chalice of World Rugby at the moment. I don’t know if even McKenzie would want the job. Its pretty clear the ARU have gone backwards with all manner of stuff. Until the top end is sorted and more vision is shown, yeah there is a good chance Dingo might stay. But, I just don’t think the Aussie punters can handle much more of him. Getting rid of Deans is effectively putting a band aid on an amputation at the moment.

    • suckerforred

      You will also find that while JON is in the ARU lInk will never be coach. Sad but true.

    • Nipper

      You don’t think coaching against the Lions and not waiting until after 2015 is enough incentive?

  • ooaahh

    Great to see some Kiwi opinion on the site that isn’t trolling. Thanks for contributing Mick.

    • Mick Coogan

      Thanks mate I have to say that after all these years I’ve learned the higher you fly the harder you hit the ground. And trust me no one hits the ground harder than AB and Liverpool fans lol.

      I saw this article at the Roar and it’s pretty funny apparently, there’s a movement to get Alan Jones back in ROFL. I couldn’t believe this one. If you want to have the Aussie public, wind up loathing the Wallabies, rather than empathize he’s your number one asshole.

      (http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/08/29/wallabies-should-go-old-school-for-new-coach/)

      Some of the comments here have been bloody interesting. I kinda do empathize with Dingo in some areas. But tactically he really hasn’t helped himself. I posted a comment a little early on that the Wallabies were the poison chalice of world Rugby. But this sort of shit is only a transition. The AB’s and England in many ways have been even more toxic to coach such has been the public expectation.

      I agree Dingo should go and I firmly believe he shouldn’t have got the job in the first place. But he really is only symptomatic of a wider problem. Don’t presume things will become better straight away when he goes. I think I am preaching to the converted on that subject however.

      For Deans to have been a better coach he should have plied his trade overseas like Henry did. After he got spurned for John Hart. He should have worked in places where the talent base was smaller than NZ and Aus. In these conditions he would have refined his coaching style and tactics.

      I mean I got taught to drive a shitty manual Vauxhall Viva before I ever drove an automatic Telstar lol. What did I learn more about driving in? That’s been Deans demise, he had to much pride to get another education.

    • Mick Coogan

      Glad to be of service. I lost faith in many of my fellow countrymen when some of them supported the Wallabies over the AB’s because Deans got the job here That must make you guys piss yourselves laughing. You have to believe me, there just as many red faced people in NZ about Deans, then there are in Oz. I’ve always feared Aussie players as well. Thus Tim Horan is my fave all time rugby player so well, there you have it.

  • RedsHappy

    The entire notion – propagated by a superficial rugby media and an increasingly agitated ARU – that Deans can or should be ‘saved’ by one or more Tests is unthinking and quite ridiculous. Why isolated single Tests matter more than longer and more crucial patterns is not a rational basis of coaching or team performance assessment.

    A national coach – in his 5th season – should properly be assessed on continuous achievement (or otherwise) trends and long-line KPIs such as:

    - demonstrable skills development and lower error rates in play over at least a prior 12-24 month period;

    - gradual increase in w-l ratio season-by-season vs the top Test teams;

    - sustained and measurable improvements in key players’ development and rise in consistency of on-field performances;

    - sustained and measurable improvements in set piece success and, for example, back line coherence, ingenuity and general attacking capability measured by, e.g., trend of average points scored per game. trend of PD and average tries scored per game

    - sustained improvement in team’s conditioning and measured performance achievement in final 20 mins of Tests;

    - and such like…

    - + the meeting of publicly declared achievement goals such as RWC, BC, 3N, etc.

    These are the sorts of parameters that determine a coach’s true talent and worth to a national team. One off Tests as ‘save or sack the coach’ are obviously far too subject to one off factors such as injury, the quality of an opposition on that particular day, home v away, etc.

    However, it is clear that the ARU are determined to keep RD by almost any means possible, so such truly sound measurements as above of his (or any other coach’s) success will be deliberately expunged and be replaced with instant and superficial gratifications of single win results, should they arise. The single results will thus be given far more weight than the accumulation of multi-year evidence. The ARU’s presentational and ‘face’ needs will transcend the more genuine and substantial requirements of the code’s long-term health.

    • S Paddy

      Until we find ‘MEN’ who wear numbers 1 thru 8 your KPI’s are toilet paper. Ask yourselves whats wrong when a geriatric (and no disrespect to him) Sharpey is the front running lock when Horwill is crook? I want McCaw KPI’s – guts, determination, unconditional pride, valor, and and iron will. That is how wars are won. Not with all this other BS about coaches, depth, and administration. Cooper missed touch at a vital time last weekend. How the hell do all these other things contribute to that?

  • Nipper

    The Wallabies losing in Argentina will be the final nail in Deans’ coffin.

    And if the Argies play like they did last week, and the Wallabies play like THEY did last week, it’s shaping up to be a likely result.

  • Patrick

    Jake White! At this point it can’t hurt.

    • Pedro

      We need him at the brumbies though!

    • RB

      Although Jake White is a great coach, I think Ewen is the coach that we need. We need a coach that’s going to get the backline playing like they did in the old days.

      • Pie Thrower

        So put a former prop in charge then?? Yep that will get the back line going!!

        • Johnny-boy

          Well Er the Reds played pretty scintillating rugby in 2011 when Link was coach. Link will get the job no doubt and he will take it as his country needs him. JON is leaving soon, thank goodness. Link also comprehensively out coached White twice this year so it is a no contest. I really do fear for the memtal health of the dillusoonal Deans sycophants and kiwi trolls when the Wallabies are no longer no 2 in the world. Their last excuse ( I’m sure they’ll come up with another) will be gone and they’ll be struggling with the reality. More straws more straws!

    • Alan

      id love to see jake white get the job, if not as robbie’s replacement then sometime in the future. He has proven international success and hasnt done all that bad provincially either!

      I have never bought into the thinking ”you need an aussie coach to lead an aussie team” all you need is someone who is a complete professional, a good organiser and a proven winner!

  • Joe Blow

    Link………..gotta be

    • @sackdeansnow

      we need a proper piggy to head this wallaby renaissance – like it always should be

    • @sackdeansnow

      we need a proper piggy to head this wallaby renaissance – like it always should be – personally I can’t feckin wait ! and BTW I say it every year – I loveeee this site

  • Robson

    There are times when I feel incredibly sorry for Robbie Deans even though I have been one of his severest critics over the years. But I personally could not stand another year of watching Wallaby miseries such as we have had to tolerate these last four years. Their results have become lamentably predictable to a degree that causes pain before they even get on to the park.

    Robbie mate, if the ARU don’t fire you, please walk. PLEASE.

    • Blinky Bill of Bellingen

      Robson – You nailed it mate.

      Robbie brings out so many different emotions in me that I am beginning to discover my inner woman, and it’s got the good wife worried. A go from feeling sorry for him to frustrated to angry. I’ve concluded that supporting the Wallabies is not good for one’s health…..well at least hair follicles. :(

      I no longer look at his selections and think ‘what clever ploy has he in store’. Nothing clever seems to ever happen. No deception, no strategy to surprise us all, just predictable average Joe stuff.

      The Wallabies have gone from being regarded as one of the smartest teams in World Rugby to the class dunce. Sad but true.

  • pants

    The next coach just has to be an Aussie. We have up until now had an Aussie brand of rugby which was as mentioned, all about sublime back line play. That has gone since Robbie took over, and ONLY since he took over it should be mentioned. Our back line is so pedestrian now and that for me is the most devastating thing about where the Wallabies are now. I can live with our forward pack being smashed. In the past, that would happen but you’d feel good because you knew that at some point, the backs would get the ball, do something really smart and score a try, and it would be something no other team could do. I really miss those days and I do blame Robbie for destroying that aspect of our game.

    • http://twitter.com/sethjnz sethjnz

      I think the idea that Australia has always had sublime back-play is a bit of the rose-tinted glasses view of things. Australia’s lack of threat in the backline is more to do with the crappy/slow/flatted footed ball that they are receiving from a forward pack that is no better than average. The Australian forward pack has been average for a long time, and as long as that is true than tight games like the Scotland ones (x 2) are going to be lost; naturally talented backs can’t get Australia out of jail like they have in the past.

      Defenses are so much stronger and more organised now that if you are not strong up front you are in even more trouble. Look at the last world cup – even the so called ‘minnows’ restricted the regular cricket scores we were seeing a decade ago – this is because everyone has caught up and there aren’t really any weak defenses within the top 10-12 nations anymore.

      As for the “The next coach just has to be an Aussie” – there are examples of national teams of many codes that have been coached successfully by foreigners. The Socceroos went through their most successful ever period under a foreign coach (Guus Hiddink). Wales just won a Grand Slam with a Kiwi coach (despite France, England and Ireland being coached by non-foreigners). A Zimbabwean (Andy Flower) coached England to the last two Ashes series wins. I just don’t think that having an Australian coach is magically going to fix Australia’s problems. I could be wrong, but the previous two Wallaby coaches were no more successful than Deans, and both were Australian.

      • boutbloodytime

        And converse to several valid points you have raised, how many times has a non Kiwi coached the All Blacks?…

        How many times has NZ called for a non New Zealand coach to coach the ABs?…Rod Macqueen after 1999, Clive Woodward after 2003? No…..never!

        Why/Why not? Because win or lose, the ABs have a proud rugby culture, that creates a pride & ownership of the jersey being proudly New Zealand, even if at times players are not NZ born, the jersey & the national team is totally NZ…always and forever! That’s what the NZ rugby public get behind, the culture of the team & the aura that creates over years and decades.

        It’s this culture, that I believe is the reason for the call for an Aussie coach…not because it will suddenly create a winning side overnight…I don’t think anyone here is that naive, but to re-instil the Aussie attitude of never say die, ‘it aint over til the fat lady sings’ & being enough of a cheeky little shit to ‘have a go you mug’…and a style of play that reflects this aspect of our national psyche.

        All the skill sets etc can be taught by a trained monkey if the underlying structure is in place (which is also sadly lacking currently, as has been pointed out here repeatedly on this site…eg grass roots development of players etc, skills developed at S15 level etc)…strategy can be taught & applied (when communicated effectively & drilled ad nauseum) but that extra 1% of intangibles that turns the close losses to wins is facilitated by having a bloke at the top who understands the culture because they’re part of it…

        Bring in foreign assistant coaches to build a more complete side if needs be, but for the reasons cited above, the guy at the top, the name on the label, the face on the side of the packet, the guy with the first & last word, needs to be Aussie.

        • Mick Coogan

          Be careful here mate lol. I recall in New Zealand there were some very strong whispers of getting in Rod McQueen after the 2003 screw up. If Rod had been keen on the job it would have been interesting to see. I remember thinking aloud to my mates I wanted him. Us Kiwi’s aren’t to proud to beg ROFL.

        • colvin

          I find it hard to believe that Rod McQueen would have been seriously considered as AB Head Coach after the 2003 loss.

          The unroar in NZ would have been deafening and you can be sure there would have been a cleanout of NZRU if it looked like happening .

          I would opine that the chances of a non NZ national is AB coach is zero in our lifetimes. While it seems to work in places like Wales which are ranked down the list and seemingly in other sports (football) it would not be appropriate in nationistic NZ. I also think it’s not appropriate in Australia, for the same reason.

        • Jimbo

          Colvin, Nucifora took over the Auckland Blues job and was roundly welcomed. Indeed as Brumbies coach he was very well liked over here. He didn’t do so well in Auckland however. New Zealander’s are nationalistic to a degree, but generally speaking when some fans are not being eggs we are pretty quick to praise good Wallaby coaches, players and ideas. Thus we ain’t stupid. I’d like to think that if an Aussie was good enough and in particularly if we were having a bad run and our coaches weren’t responsive to changes in the game. I think you would be surprised at how many Kiwi’s would be open to the idea. But you are also right, I can’t see it happening at least for awhile.

        • colvin

          Jimbo,

          I guess my thoughts have crystalised with repect to non-nationals as Head Coach of some national teams. I think it would be pretty hard for NZ, SA, England, France and Australia (after Robbie) to accept a non-national.

          Teams down the ranking obviously will do what they can to improve. Therefore Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Italy etc. have moved in that direction by choosing coaches from top nations with varying degrees of success. And teams further down the ranking, (i.e. Japan, US and Canada etc.) yes, of course.

          But rugby is a very nationalistic sport with national anthems and team songs playing a very big part. I love the words of “A Flower of Scotland” but chuckle when I see the ex-English coach (now Head Coach of Scotland) singing it. Particularly when Scotland play England.

          And I’ve been surprised the way Robbie hasn’t been able to win over the rugby community in Aus., to the extent that many are now saying he can’t select and he can’t coach. Well we know that isn’t true but there’s something about the Head Coach position in rugby where supporters seem very quick to call a coach a bum and say “we need one of us, he just doesn’t understand our culture etc.” Possibly the sight of Robbie singing Avance Australian Fair when he is just a hired gun rather than someone who has committed his life to Aus. winds people up. The reality is that the WB Head Coach position is the equivilent of a hospital pass and it’s hard to think anyone not brought up in the Aus system could succeed.

          So because of the way Robbie is treated by many of the Aus. rugby community, I take the view that a national is best for Aus.

          Also England. In their search they said they wanted the best. But they took who they thought was the best Englishman, which I thought was correct and then promoted him as the best option worldwide.

          I was very impressed with Nucifera after he was told that he wouldn’t be renewed at the Brumbies. His public demeanour was exceptional. I never heard a sour or bitter comment at any time and consequently always thought he would have a big career in coaching. Equally though, I was surprised that he was appointed at Auckland as if nothing else it meant that one important position used to develop AB coaches was taken up by a non NZer.However, an appointment as Super coach is not an appointment of national coach, so I guess there was some leeway.

          Coming back to NZ, if we were in the doldrums (ranking somewhere 6 to 12) and if rugby lost the status it has in NZ I suppose we could possibly do what Wales did and appoint a foreign coach to try and bring back past glories.

          But with rugby holding the status it currently has in NZ could you imagine an Eddie Jones, PDV or Alan Jones singing God Defend New Zealand. It would be a sad day for rugby in NZ.

  • http://twitter.com/sethjnz sethjnz

    I don’t think NZ has been in the position Australia was in after the 2007 World Cup. There were no exceptional Australian coaches to pick. Maybe in the future this will happen to NZ, especially as rugby has only been professional for 16 years. Hasn’t happened yet, and as long as quality NZ coaches are popping their heads up it won’t.

    I just think focussing on the nationality of the coach is looking at a small thing, rather than focusing on the many big problems that are far more important – and I think, far more to blame for the current Wallaby record than Deans’ nationality.

    • boutbloodytime

      Fair point Seth, and I agree it’s about a heck of a lot more than the coach, which was acknowledged above…

      Maybe the Wallabies are sowing the results of the key difference between what gave Henry the job of coaching the ABs after RWC2007 ahead of Deans…

      My understanding is that the key difference, when interviewed by the NZ rugby board, was that Henry had a gameplan for the next 4 years, a structure to follow & a team of coaches he wanted to help him get there…in comparison, Deans was unprepared/underprepared to deal with those bigger picture questions & didn’t have those structures in place in his thought process when interviewed…and outside looking in, this is evident for the Wallabies now, 4+ years further down the track.

      Maybe that’s an individual trait of Deans’, not a nationality trait…the rumour mill says Deans runs a pretty loose ship…maybe that is at odds with what is required to produce champion teams in Australia.

      So maybe what I really want is more clarity in communication/structure & understanding/a coach with an obvious vision & can communicate it effectively to the players, the media & the rugby loving public & the results (win or lose), demonstrate this vision & there is tangible progress toward a common goal…

      Did we have that under Eddie Jones?!?…I concede fully Seth that we didn’t.

      Is that clarity/vision & plan to achieve said vision a uniquely Australian thing?
      Probably not….look at Woodward 2003 & Henry 2011.

      Is it unique to Australian coaches?
      Definitely not…Jake White is the recent obvious example…

      But is it necessary for success at the highest level?
      Absolutely.

      So, harking back to our successes in 1999 under Macqueen & 1991 under Dwyer, we had coaches with vision, passion & a structured, specific plan of how to take good players & turn them into a champion team, who accepted nothing less than excellence in all facets of play…and that’s what I miss the most…the style of play, the fitness of the team, the discipline levels, the passion to get in & give it your all….hell, call it pride & professionalism, but it’s sadly lacking at the moment, regardless of where the coach hails from.

      But, to concede that the other guys were so much better that we might as well just fight over the scraps for 2nd, 3rd, 4th place is bloody
      Un-Australian & it’s THAT attitude that the people calling for an Aussie coach find most offensive.

      • http://twitter.com/sethjnz sethjnz

        Yeah my understanding was that Henry got the position because he had such a strong coaching team – Deans didn’t. I understand what you’re saying about having clarity and a plan. To give Deans some credit, I think he did have a plan to develop young players and try and eliminate the culture of entitlement. He partially succeeded in the former and failed in the later. It was more or less to introduce a crusaders culture into the wallabies (which i think was a good goal – and why so many NZers were worried when he was appointed coach). That hasn’t worked, so now he is unsure what to do!

  • Slim 293

    From the Canberra Times, since I can’t post this on the forum:

    “The ACT Brumbies are optimistic starting scrumhalf Nic White will be fit for the start of the next Super Rugby season after he underwent a shoulder reconstruction yesterday.

    But the club is privately fuming over his snubbing from Australia’s Rugby Championship squad, having delayed his surgery after being advised he was in Wallabies coach Robbie Deans’s plans.

    The Canberra Times has learned the Brumbies held off White’s procedure after being given a strong indication he would be chosen for the four-team tournament.

    However, White was overlooked for the opening two clashes against New Zealand, and also missed out on the squad named yesterday for the September 8 match against South Africa in Perth.

    It is believed White would likely have undergone shoulder surgery six weeks ago, alongside Brumbies teammates Sam Carter and Scott Fardy, had the club known he wouldn’t be selected.

    White’s Wallabies snubbing in favour of Melbourne Rebels playmaker Nick Phipps has raised many eyebrows.

    The Rebels won just four games all season, while the revitalised Brumbies missed out on playing in their first finals series since 2004 by a single point.

    The 22-year-old also sat on the bench for the entire three-Test series against the touring Welsh in June, which makes his omission all the more curious.

    White was superb for Queanbeyan in a John I Dent Cup semi-final last week.

    But he went under the knife yesterday in order to give him enough time to be ready for the Brumbies’ 2013 campaign.

    Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/hell-be-white-for-2013-20120831-25642.html#ixzz258KTa5yW

  • Broady

    Robbie Deans has made a major error in not developing a strong running midfield combination. The player they miss the most is Stirling Mortlock and until they fix this midfield problem they will struggle. These days, to get past the advantage line consistently you need aggressive forwards (which as much as the Walabies would like to admit they do, they don’t) and size and power in the midfield to give the outside backs room to weave their magic. The Wallabies lack about 100 kgs across the paddock and having 85-90 kg defence orientated players at 12 and 13 just doesn’t cut it. Dare I say it, do the ARU need to recruit someone like Greg Inglis or Jamal Ingris?

  • bludge

    if youre actually saying you think the first 2 games against the SA and argies are comfy wins? you are DREAMING.

    SA could have 30 guys injured and still have a chance at upsetting any team.

  • baldwid

    The ARU needs to recruit heavily in young league talent – 13-18 year olds if they are not willing to develop their own!

    How can players like Inglis, Idris, Hayne, Barba, Williams etc not be picked up by our talent scouts?? what are they getting paid for – picking the Lachie Turners of the world!!

    • bill

      As big a target as Deans is at the moment the idea that poaching league players at a young age is the solution reveals the real problem for aussie rugby.

  • richard

    ooaahh, at 10.43am – what constitutes trolling? – oh, thats right, its someone that has a contrary opinion to you aussies and doesn’t get in on the love – in about aussie rugby. Reality check mate, your team is average – in both the forwards and backs and the myth of the australian “running game” is just that- a myth.

    By all means, bring in Mckenzie, but don’t count on him being the panacea for all of ozzie’s ills.If he fails, who are you going to blame then.Until you fix up your forward pack, your team is going nowhere!

    • Mick Coogan

      After all I have done for Trans Tazzy relations and now this ROFL. Rich mate I don’t think the Aussies on here would deny some of your points. In particularly the lines about firing Deans not being the be all and end all of their future rebuild. I agree as would most Aussies about the current forward pack.

      Nonetheless mate the Aussies have always had dangerous back lines.
      If you read up about the Wallabies of yore and/or better yet cop an eye on some old footage of them playing in the 50′s and so on (which I have been lucky to do). You can see that they have had some fast and dangerous backs. We’ve always had great backs as well. But we didn’t really use them as much because our game was forward dominated.

      Aussie simply haven’t had the luxury of a consistently mean forward pack. So they have had to improvise. Also Rich their are some slight climate considerations at play. Aussie pitches were always that little bit harder and drier than ours.That also encouraged their type of game.

      Thus in choosing a back line its always a matter of preference. Of course people will be biased towards their own. The Aussie back line is bloody good but we have an edge on em for the moment. But funnily enough my fave center of all time is Tim Horan. Just wait till the Aussies bring out someone like that again. I’m not looking forward to it.

  • richard

    To Mick, I’m not saying they haven’t poduced good backlines, I’m just saying their current one isn’t as good as oz seem to think. I haven’t been watching the game as long as you have, I started as a kid in the early 70′s, but quite frankly , other than brief periods in the early ’90s- the horan era, as u say,I have seldom seen their backlines being superior to ours, let alone the best in the world.

    As, for what they did in the ’50′s, its a moot point; then like now, it has little to do with climatic conditions, and more to do with the aussie’s forward pack unable to dominate opposing packs- ergo the looser the game, the better chance the wbs have of competing. This is why oz is always espousing a ‘running game.

    P.S. Don’t take it so seriously, its just my opinion!

  • PD

    I can’t believe your comments about Kiwis being Smug over the Auckland result. Most of my friends all compalined about a poor perfromance in finishing and laughed at suggestions the Wallabies were making about “best game in 10 years” (Sharpe) as Ozzie bullshit covering their own trail. And what does the next RWC have to do with anything? Thats years away. What I have been reading and discussing is the real test will be the Boks. And the AB’s theselves have been dowplaying the crap coming out of OZ, not NZ.

    • Mick Coogan

      I think you have missed the point. Or maybe I didn’t explain myself so well lol. Either or there’s no right or wrong here.

      I was saying that the NZ press seemed pretty smug in discussing rankings. Not to mention that it is a long time before the next world cup and anything could happen to us as a team. Its good the AB’s are looking for perfection. Its good to know their eighty five percent is tough to beat.

      But I remember way back after our first win in 87, the AB’s were the dominant team in the World and unbeaten till Aussie toppled us at Athletic Park in 1990. We all know what happened next. Now these guys had peaked. From there it was a slippery slope.

      Where I am at fault is I should have explained a little more clearly how I wish that the journos would listen to Steve Hansen a little more. He’s genuinely a one game at a time sort of bloke. I think we need to be like that as well.

      My only real reference to the average Kiwi punter concerned how many fans and writers wanted Dingo to be the AB’s coach. I was appalled by the short memories us Kiwi’s had. In 2003 we dominated the Super 12 as it was then and we finally won back the Bledisloe. Okay that’s all well and good. But we had peaked to early sustained some silly injuries made some dodgy selections and the Aussies had learned all our moves.

      On the topic of Deans, the NZ press like the Aussie press were also pretty cynical of his comments. What you are missing and it seems a number of Wallaby fans are as well is that for all the problems they are having at the moment.

      With the experience some are getting now. By the next RWC and with a new coach and better strategy. I think the Wallabies may well be a very useful team by the next RWC.

      They’ll have experience and a little more depth in their back line. Which in all reality isn’t that shabby as it is. If they can build on some back ups for players like Hooper, Pocock and Timani (so they can rest them that’s important). Then get some steel in the front row (to at least get a consistent platform). I think they’ll be a threat. They’ll be hungry for revenge as well. A bit of introspection is painful but it can be a good thing.

  • richard

    To PD, well said mate. All the talk has come out of oz, and when I heard genia and cooper waxing lyrical about the abs, I had to have a wry chuckle. Even the most ardent ab’s fan could see that for what it was, a smokescreen to divert attention away from their own poor performance.

    This ab team isn’t the finished article yet, but they are heading inthe right direction.

  • bill

    Richie has had a very lenient boss so far, and with some justification, but he really has to bite the bullet and wean himself off the teat.He hasn’t done the job he was asked to do, move on. If you can leave the place better than what you started well done, if you hold on too long you won’t.

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