English chariot runs over Wallabies - Green and Gold Rugby
Wallabies

English chariot runs over Wallabies

English chariot runs over Wallabies

England have made it five wins in a row against Australia with a 30-6 win at Twickenham. It was a game the Wallabies will probably claim as a missed opportunity after they worked back into the game after being second best in most areas and looked to have levelled the score before the game turned back in England’s favour with ten minutes remaining as they scored three late tries to blow the final score out.

The Wallabies were down to 13 men at one stage with both Michael Hooper and Kurtley Beale in the bin for infringements and they did well to hold England out in that period before the late drama.

The Match

The opening five minutes was a kick fest between the two sides with England getting the better of that contest in the drizzle, attempting to pin the Wallabies down their own end.

The hosts got the scoring started with an Owen Farrell penalty after six minutes from about 40 metres out after Michael Hooper got caught at the bottom of a ruck.

The Wallabies had their struggles when they got the ball, with a few forward passes mixed in with rushed passing putting them under pressure and halting any momentum.

The scrums were a good contest in the opening 20 with the Scott Sio going head to head with Dan Cole one to watch. The Wallabies claimed a few free kicks on their feed to give them come confidence.

Bernard Foley had a chance to level the scores from a handy position but his attempt off the tee was a shank, much to the delight of the Twickenham crowd and shortly after they spurned another shot at goal but fluffed the lineout in the English 22.

The Wallabies thought they had scored the opening try to Michael Hooper but he was ruled in front of the kicker from a Tevita Kuridrani grubber kick. Marika Koroibete found the gap and only had to dive on the ball to score but the bounce of the ball evaded him and it fell to Hooper but the TMO ruled it out.

The Wallabies came under real pressure around the 30 minute mark with England receiving multiple penalties in the attacking 22 and referee Ben O’Keeffe had enough of the ill discipline that included a few collapsed mauls and general offside and Hooper copped his second yellow card in as many weeks. Farrell added his second penalty goal to make it 6-0.

There was a bit of helter skelter play just before the break as the Wallabies made their way downfield after a big hit from Kuridrani spilt the ball. The ball again evaded the Wallabies after being toed ahead but England were able to recover.

Kurtley Beale joined Hooper in the bin after he deliberately knocked the ball down attempting an intercept but the Wallabies pinched the enusing penalty to go to the break only 6-0 down despite a 9-3 penalty count against them.

Embed from Getty Images

The Wallabies opened the scoring in the second half with Reece Hodge landing a long range penalty and would have felt confident after keeping England from scoring during the period they were down to 13 players.

England were the next to score in the 55th minute in an unusual sequence of play. Samu Kerevi had somehow managed to find a gap but Kuridrani dropped the ball and then England kicked down field and the ball looked like it would roll in touch but somehow didn’t and Elliot Daly got in ahead of Beale and kicked ahead to score the try. Farrell’s conversion made it a ten point margin.

With the match entering the final 20, Foley reduced the margin to seven after they received a number of penalties in their favour.

After another penalty (after a warning), the Wallabies kicked to the corner but came up short with England able to disrupt the maul. This came after what could have been a five metre scrum after England scrambled to get the ball dead.

Shortly after the TMO again ruled out another Wallabies try this time Marika Koroibete was denied after Stephen Moore was ruled to have obstructed Chris Robshaw from making the tackle. It was a real turning point as it would have likely drawn the match level at 13-13 with ten minutes remaining.

But then momentum swung back to England as they sealed the match with three late tries. Jonathan Joseph scored after sliding over in the wet for England’s second of the match after a kick over the top from Danny Care and that was followed up Jonny May collecting another kick ahead and he twisted his way over the line.

With time up, England added another to Danny Care to blow the final score out but it was a win England thoroughly deserved but there will certainly be a few talking points from this one.



The Game Changer

The no try to Marika Koroibete with ten minutes to go.


The G&GR MOTM

As much as I’d rather chew glass, Joe Launchbury had a good game for England and gets the nod in slightly less controversial circumstances.


The Details

Score & Scorers

AUSTRALIA 6
Penalties: Hodge, Foley
ENGLAND 30
Tries: Daly, Joseph, May, Care
Conversions: Farrell 2
Penalties: Farrrell 2

Cards

32 mins – Hooper (Australia) – Yellow
40 mins – Beale (Australia) – Yellow

Crowd

Raucous

  • Kristian Thomas

    I didn’t think they deserved it at all… the poms didnt create anything… we made heaps of mistakes and didn’t get the rub of the green. The last couple of tries were after the game was done and we were chasing a consolation.

    • EdmundFoster

      You’re right, score flattered us. Truth is it could have gone either way with the pen against Moore.

    • onlinesideline

      “We made heaps of mistakes” and they scored off of them. Thats why they won.

    • Haz

      Yeah I mean that’s probably what Cheika thought the last 4 times and it’s why another loss happened

      Perhaps he (and you) should consider what would happen if he played QC at 10, Hodge at 12 someone like Timani at 6 instead of just blaming poor luck..

      • onlinesideline

        While Im not a fan of Timani, I would have thought if he was ever needed in run on side, today was the day. Bring on McMahon later.

        • Haz

          I’m not even sure for McMahon. I guess it’s tough when trying to balance the lineout but Hanigan just doesn’t have the physicality.

    • Mike Thompson

      Of course they deserved it. They strangled their way to victory with a beautiful kicking game, brilliant defense and a wonderful lineout. And, wow, do they take their chances.

  • Raz Gat

    Anger… But we didn’t play the conditions right and once again got grinded out by England with defence and lucky fluke tries. It’s been the same script for 5 games in a row. Dominating us!

    • EdmundFoster

      After five games, they can’t all be lucky mate

      • onlinesideline

        Its not luck, the Poms were better and have been better in all 5 games. Period. Foley has been steering the Wallabies for 4 seasons now and every time we have the really big matches, the crunch matches of the season we get dusted. Every season. QC would have grubbered and chipped the Poms into implosion mode. We are an absolute no show with Foley in the side. This match proved how unversatile he really is.

        • Raz Gat

          Lucky is the maybe the wrong word… But I think the wallabies are a better attacking side and England are just much smarter in the way they play us and 80% of their tries against us are opportunistic. They deserve the win, it’s just frustrating we are not more patient and smarter when we play them. Stupid rugby today by the wallabies.

        • onlinesideline

          yeah but we cant use the line, “we are the better attacking side” forever. We are clearly not as good as we think if we crumble when playing the big boys and for the last 4 seasons under Cheika with Foley steering the side we have fallen short. The Poms, Saffas and ABs are all good at attacking too. We are not that good. Wales were all over us and the Poms did what they had to do to stop us, so are we really that good ? Its about game smarts and its our biggest weakness.

          If Cheika wants to get rid of the strong personalities in favour of the Foleys we will never have TRUE leaders in our side. QC has a worldview about how footy should be played and I bet you my bottom dollar if he was playing today, yes he would have dropped the pill and maybe got smashed, but he would have also been worth 2 or 3 moments of wet weather brilliance we just dont get with Foley.

          Its Cheikas choice, he’s got to live with it. But if he wants to crap on about running rugby and omits QC then this is what happens. Nothingness.

        • lee enfield

          Nailed it.

        • BigNickHartman

          with all respect olsl, i think you’re banging on about Quade a bit too much. you may not be wrong, but there’s a lot more else to talk about…

        • onlinesideline

          Nick, true while the QC issue is an old story, what I am trying to highlight is the extent that the Foley issue is damaging the team and the way he seems to get a press pass in spite of his glaring limitations.

          Its not about QC and what he could or couldnt have done per se (even though he has more skills than Foley) but rather what other 10s in the country could bring to the team. I personally think its killing us. I think ppl get what Im saying, even if they dont agree.

        • onlinesideline

          Nick I see you deleted my response to you which I thought was a fair and reasonable response. Highlighting how I thought Foley gets a free press pass and that QC or other 10s in the country need to be considered, what exactly is wrong with that ? If you are going to start pulling comments like this as the moderator then arent you overstepping your role, with all due respect ? Having an opinion about Quade or other possible tens is breaking what rules ?

          I might add my comment was upvoted by 10 ppl Nick !

        • Haz

          I just don’t think you can say it’s opportunistic or lucky when it’s 5/5

          I’m not sure what the issue is. Maybe strength in depth in some positions or is it the coaching?

        • Hoss

          Whilst i agree with you mate – an old cricket coach used to say to me ‘son, you cant draw pictures in the score book’ and that reads Dr Evil 5 – WB’s 0.

          Its not all bad – when Eddie retakes the helm as WBs coach post 2019 RWC he can fix us – cause sure as shit he knows more about our game plan than we do.

        • onlinesideline

          Its not hard to see that we really dont have one.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          That would be an interesting scenario

        • Hoss

          You cant argue his influence KRL. His impact on Ol Blighty has been surreal. He seems a more complete coach than before, calmer (well – that needs confirmation). But i like how he nailed his colours to the mast re winning the world cup. He has set a goal and is not wavering from it – better to try and fail than to never try and his results, apart from one obvious match-up they are in good shape at present – 21 from 22.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          True. He certainly seems to have learnt a lot about people management too as he hasn’t yet got half the team off side with him. I actually think bringing him back as a coach for the coaches would be a better move but be good to see him back

    • Simon

      We never handle the conditions right, or any other change in the game. The Wallabies under Cheika only have one game plan and if it’s wet or the opposition refuse to let them play it they are going to struggle every time.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        I agree. I’m not sure the coaching team are actually very good strategists and this is hurting the Wallabies when they play anywhere but in the dry in Australia. Mind you didn’t help them much there earlier this year either.

        • Haz

          I’ve got to be honest. The biggest weakness imo is grey and his bullshit defence strategies he comes up with.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          It’s certainly up there. Why the fuck he’s allowed to continue is beyond me. I’m also getting more and more nervous that Larkham is the heir apparent after Cheika. I’m not sure he’s up to it

        • Old_Laurentian

          The obvious replacement for Cheiks is Eddie Jones surely, when the time comes.

        • Hitcho

          It’s hard to be strategists when they are constantly in an uproar from something that happened 2-3 phases ago… watch the game and make tactical decisions. I’m seeing the same shit on the field. The players are too busy flapping their arms around about some perceived opposition wrongdoing than making tackles… Wallabies play the bloody whistle and Coaching staff STFU and stop whinging, monitor, analyze, adapt and overcome.

    • onlinesideline

      some / most of the tries the Poms scores in OZ were far from lucky. We have been outcoached 5 times. There was nothing lucky about the tries the Poms scored today either. Just take your chances opportune stuff, its good rugby. We often have less possession and do the same to other teams.

  • Patrick

    The yellow cards were as harsh as I’ve ever seen.

    But we played Foley, and Hanigan, and they played the rub of the green which was very much in their favour on the day.

    So fair enough to them :(

    • EdmundFoster

      Beales was a knockdown definite yellow.

      • Patrick

        Even the England fans I was watching with thought it was a penalty at best. Clearly going for the intercept.

        • Gegonago

          That doesnt matter. Going for an intercept with one hand when you aren’t in a position to catch it is a yellow card all day.

          The convicts sure like a winge when things dont go their way. Strange that they’ve been ‘robbed’ five times in a row now.

        • onlinesideline

          Like flies to a turd, the Pommy troll appears yet again.

        • Gegonago

          Im glad you can see that Aussie Rugby is a turd

        • onlinesideline

          No, turd as in shitty behaviour, a lot like your fugly women rolling around the gutter at closing time every weekend.

        • Gegonago

          Women must find you very impressive.

        • onlinesideline

          oh diddums – feelings hurt ?

        • Gegonago

          Are you serious? No.The way you talk…you sound like the type of person who has had to settle for a middling wife and job

        • onlinesideline

          thats all you’ve got ? – “a middling wife”
          Just go and watch some “Neighbours” reruns and shush now.

        • Gegonago

          Having to settle for mediocrity is a bigger punishment than any words I can say.

        • onlinesideline

          Mediocrity ? – your women ? – yeah must be hell.

        • BigNickHartman

          lads just report the trolls, we all look worse for having schoolyard arguments about convicts and ugly women

        • onlinesideline

          guilty

        • wilful

          Seriously, the convict thing is a joke from the 50s or before. You’re the inbreds with a class system, bad teeth and no plumbing, we’re proud of having escaped the misery in the 19th century.

        • Gegonago

          Aye but we can afford to keep our rugby teams and players, so swings and roundabouts

        • Haz

          Nah he knew what he was doing. Dived for it and knocked it down, no way the ruling goes another way in this day and age

        • EdmundFoster

          I disagree he knew moving the ball inside to Joseph was a big threat. He took one for the team. Pro foul in my mind.

      • Who?

        You mean the way that Davies’ deliberate knock down the week before was a yellow, and the way that Itoje’s deliberate knock down whilst offside was also a yellow..? Oh, wait… :-

        • EdmundFoster

          Yep, agree with you on both counts, in Europe this year the majority of those situations resulted in a yellow. In Maro’s case it was possibly mitigated by the fact that there was no chance of a try being scored or a breakaway being cynically stopped. Davies’ should definitely have seen yellow – I thought he did but memory is bad

        • Who?

          Super Rugby was similar, where we saw some incredibly soft yellows for ‘deliberate’ knock downs. Generally speaking, I don’t think the clarification to this law that was implemented in the past 12 months was necessary – that’s my personal point of view (Eto Nabuli for the Reds got a card for knocking down a pass in the act of making a tackle – one of the softest yellows ever!).
          But since the end of Super Rugby, we’ve seen a much less consistent application of this protocol, and also the protocol for high tackles. We’ve seen more soft YC’s, and yet more where they were ignored (I counted three missed high tackles by England on the weekend, including one on Hooper in the last tackle before the last try – which was the reason why he was complaining as he walked back. He’d copped a forearm wrapped around his head pulling him to the ground).
          I agree there was no chance of a try off Itoje’s play, but his play was also from an offside position, so it was just plain stupid and cynical. Unnecessary, a complete lack of discipline, and the sort of thing that would make a coach very grumpy (and should frustrate a ref into considering a card, because of the total lack of respect for the game shown by the action. It was cynical and deliberate, whereas Beale and Davies’ knocks on were more instinctive (if not also wrong)).
          The issue is just consistency, and when you’ve got a young bloke in front of a baying crowd like Twickers, it takes guts to make them. And, for the record, Jackson didn’t give Davies a YC last week – in fact, the commentators picked up that he did exactly what Hooper did before his YC – he walked back onside by the route that kept him as far away from Glen Jackson as possible. :-D

        • EdmundFoster

          “I counted three missed high tackles by England on the weekend”

          Yeah no complaints from me on that. There were a couple of occasions in the game where I thought we were going to give away kickable shots for wrestling around the neck. Hitting low and hard seems to be going out of fashion.

          “I agree there was no chance of a try off Itoje’s play, but his play was also from an offside position, so it was just plain stupid and cynical. Unnecessary, a complete lack of discipline, and the sort of thing that would make a coach very grumpy”

          Itoje’s prone to that a little, but it’s easy to forget he’s still only in his second full season as an international. No excuse I know.

          Anyway, good luck to you against the Scots

        • Who?

          I blame World Rugby for the change in tackling technique. They changed tackle/breakdown law, so tacklers no longer have rights to pilfer without re-entering the tackle through the gate, requiring jackals to remove their hands when an attacker comes into the breakdown (which makes pilfering all but impossible), and by creating offside lines at the arrival of an attacking player.
          These were unnecessary changes, and they removed options and the contest at the breakdown. In removing options on the ground, they’ve created a new focus on the choke tackle. That was the first thing I picked up in the Welsh game – I’ve never seen Wales (or England) attempt to hold players up so consistently. So where you could run a little higher and be confident of getting to the ground (as there was a reward to getting players to ground – they had to release the ball, and you could hold onto it until you were pushed off it or off your feet), now if there’s any sniff of holding the player up, the tacklers will go a bit higher in order to attempt to do that (even though the Irish have long shown that the better technique is to get under the ball and lift, rather than stay upright and attempt to hold the runner up).
          Further, if players feel they’re being targeted to be held on their feet and mauled, they’re going to start running lower. Which makes it harder to get under their shoulder level.
          In all honesty, I think it would’ve been disappointing if any of the high tackles I saw (which were all tackles – I didn’t watch wrestling in the breakdown as intently) had been cards. I get the drive to protect the head, but penalties would’ve been enough. But that lack of consistency (and it’s not about England vs Australia here – it’s between referees) is a significant issue.
          Itoje’s an interesting character. I’d feel a bit embarrassed if I were Lawes, being pushed out to 6 in the scrum by someone smaller and younger than me… He was also never onside for his lineout steal (but Taf should’ve thrown it higher). But that’s what you get away with when you’re young and dynamic! And no question, he’s still got a big future in front of him. But his inexperience is surprising, given he’s a Saracen (at least I think he is?), and they understand how to make tight forwards into disciplined players (Skelton is the perfect example – he came back here a completely different player).
          Thanks for your well wishes – I think the Scots are strong favourites!
          And well done on the weekend – smarter play won the day. The ref decided the margin, but England’s composure and game plan decided the result.

    • lee enfield

      Hooper, the most yellow carded player. If I recall correctly, one of the justifications for selecting Bernard “The Iceman” Foley was QC is too much of a liability on the team due to the yellow cards.

      • Dud Roodt

        So you’re comparing Hooper to calamity Quade like they’re effect on the game is the same? Mental

        • lee enfield

          Oh I see, so the impact of a yellow card which attracts the same penalty of 10mins in the bin regardless of the name player, is determined by the name of the player. Mental.

          But if we are going to assign impact based on name, then surely losing a John Eales medallist, captain and key forward 8 times or in game speak, for 1 game, has a greater impact; than losing a player who is so flawed he is termed Calamity Quade.

          Well it appears the title of calamity has passed from Quade to Hooper.

        • Dud Roodt

          You’re trying to compare a player who tops most stat lines in every single game he plays and who got went off for his teams repeated infringements, to a guy who hasn’t played a phenomenal game of rugby in about 6 years, and gets sent off regularly for head high tackles.

          But you’re right, they’re basically the same player

        • Who?

          They are – half the country hates each of them. :-P

    • SABart

      Apart from the first attack when England were in for the try Aus knocked back and it got called back incorrectly for a knock on wasn’t all one sided reffing

  • onlinesideline

    If QC made those mistakes he would be pillared by everyone.

    Are the weaknesses that everyone complain about including me the reason we lost ?
    ie Simmons, Hanigan, McMahon at 8 (not having a real 8) and Foley ?
    Or was it Genia and Beale having very ordinary games ?
    Or was it lack of composure ?
    No real leadership ?
    No Coleman, Rodda, Dempsey, Tui ?
    The bounce of the ball ?
    A smarter England ?
    All of the above ?

    Was Hooper still offside when he scored the try, yep clearly, cant do that
    Did the ball go over the sideline before May scored, no unfortunately, in by a mm
    Moores defintely obstructed in front of Koribete when he fell backwards into the way of the English.
    Was Beale knockdown a yellow, in todays rules, yes.
    Was Hoopers yellow Harsh, yes, but the Poms didnt score in that 10, so we still could have won.

    We just dropped the ball too many fucking times – made too many stupid passes and too many kicking mistakes and not enough well placed wet weather grubbers.
    And the Poms capitallised on our mistakes, we didnt capitalise on theirs.
    They scored tries we, didnt.

    • Haz

      Conditions were very tough to be fair. Slippery and a lot of errors to be expected I guess

      • onlinesideline

        for both sides…next

    • Will Honeycomb

      Learn to spell and I’ll pay attention

      • onlinesideline

        its a post match rant after losing to England – stick your attention “Honey”

      • McWarren

        You missed a full stop, dick head.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Zinger. Well done!

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Ba-friggen-Boom!

      • Michael Hassall

        Gfc

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Mate I agree. If QC had as poor a game as Foley did he’d be crucified in all the writeups, not just here in the comments. It’s really disheartening to see everyone here complaining about the inneffectiveness of Hannigan and Sinmmons and yet they still get picked week after week and nothing changes. I really think the coaching team feel somethimes that changing their mind is seen as a weakness and they almost seem to be prepared to lose rather than admit they got things wrong.
      I’m stuck working here in Washington so won’t see the game until it’s up on Youtube but I folowed it on Planet rugby live and it certainly looked pretty good apart from the last 15 mins or so. The highlights never tell the full picture but I thought Hooper must have been taking a YC for the team and Moore was unlucky as he just ran the wrong line and got in the way.

      • McWarren

        I think your right in the YC and Moore decisions. Though I don’t think Moore caused an obstruction.

        • Who?

          I don’t think there was any more obstruction in Moore on Robshaw than the was against Moore in a try England scored against us back in (I think!) 2012 or 13..?

        • Technically Moore did cause an obstruction, because Robshaw couldn’t make his tackle before the try line. In open play you’d probably not see it checked, because he eventually made the tackle, but because they were checking for the grounding they checked that too.

          It feels really harsh, because in open play it isn’t called (and it should be) but he did interfere with the attempted tackle, so it’s obstruction. If I was the referee, I might have gone for accidental offside rather than obstruction, for contact while in front of the player. But I’m not a referee.

        • Mica

          Doesn’t matter if he stops Robshaw making the tackle as long as he is in line with Koroibete or behind him. Don’t forget that Robshaw was outside Moore in the defensive line.
          It was pretty close but Moore was ruled in front of Koroibete by the TMO and therefore penalty.
          If he was in line with Koroibete and stopped Robshaw making a tackle it would/should be play on.

    • idiot savant

      Your point about dropping the ball is apposite. We were focussed on playing ball in hand rugby in wet conditions. Almost all the English tries came from kicks.

    • McWarren

      You see if QC does it it’s a brain fart, a personal psychological issue with him, that only he has. If Hooper or Beale do it it’s the ref being harsh. Simple.

    • Waz_dog

      Absolutely – the golden coach and his golden boys are rusted. I’m sick of him playing players that don’t play that position at SR level. We’ve been a couple of intercepts away from the wins being loses in the last two tight games and this has been laid to bare against a highly rated team.

      5-0 – Chieka doesn’t have a clue on beating the poms or bring back the bledisloe. Anyone that thinks he does is dreaming.

  • mikado

    Wallabies really, really unlucky there. Every 50/50 went against them. England very mediocre for 60 minutes and could have easily been behind, in which case a whole different end to the game. The end of the game was just crazy.

    • Haz

      I’m not so sure. The Daly try shouldn’t have been a try imo but there should have been a try for England in the first few mins when the red called knock on when it wasn’t.

      Also Beale lucky for not getting a red for arguing with the ref about his yellow. No place for it in the game imo.

      • mikado

        I agree the ref made a mistake for the forward pass call. I think that was the only thing that went against England and I didn’t think a try was at all certain if play had continued.

        Beale did argue but a red would have been astonishingly harsh.

        • Haz

          Yeah it would have been harsh but equally arguing with the ref like that has no place in the game imo

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Yeah personally I would have ignored him then told the captain to get his players under control or it’d e changed from yellow to red

      • Who?

        If Beale’s unlucky not to be getting a red, then what about Farrell badgering him until he decided to disallow Koroibete’s try..? I didn’t like Beale’s actions, but Farrell’s was prolonged.

  • onlinesideline

    its been almost 6 years now that we have not formed a forward pack with a well balanced back row, with real size and players in the right position. Cheika, short stint with Link and then with Deans. If we have the “best attacking side” as we all like to claim / think why dont we just pick a standard 8 with size, who have fitness and skill, spin it wide and let the so called great aussie backs do their thing. Why do we have to pick these lightweights that smashed all the time. Has it worked, do we get to the breakdown any quicker, NO. Do we feed are fast backline any qucker ? NO. Could the backline still do its thing if we just had a standard, big, and well selected back three ? YES. Until we drop tis experiment we are just a no chance against the big boys. You can forget it. 9 times out of 10 we will lose.

    When we win one of the first 2 Bled matches that COUNT, or one or two the tri nations matches while we have a chance of winning the actual trophy, then I will say Cheikas selections maybe make sense but at the moment we are still delusional. If Eddie or Jake White were coaching us what would our side look like.

    My only hope is that Coleman, Rodda, Tui and Dempsey would have made the difference but with Foley there, I will always have my heart in my mouth.

    • Haz

      In all fairness, McMahon might not have the size of some 8’s he does play like it. He absolutely ranked Underhill and gives it all.

      • onlinesideline

        of course he gives it his all but …. too small.

        • Haz

          Maybe, maybe not. What other options are there?

          I rate him, I don’t think the issues are in the back row or even the from row… when Coleman is out and there’s Simmons and whoever in the second row – that’s where the issue is imo

          Compare the second rows today. Launchbury and Itoje vs Simmons and whoever. No contest.

        • Patrick

          MacMahon made more metres in tight than anyone as far as I could see. He plays at 125kgs no worries. He’s really not the problem.

        • onlinesideline

          yeah his stats are always good, but hes too small as an 8 because hes keeping a bigger more specialised 8 from being in the back row. Why cant he play at 6 and a heavier guy play 8. Its not all about meters gained by the way, there are other factors than weigh in on this issue.

        • Dud Roodt

          And the bigger better 8 who’s being kept out of the team is who?

          As much as I wish we had a Nathan Hughes, or particularly a Billy V, we just don’t have one

        • onlinesideline

          Today, Timani should have played 8 and ran on starting side.

        • Dud Roodt

          Hmm not sure I agree. I really wish Timani was the 8 I think he could be, but every time he plays for the wallabies he doesn’t punch to his weight. I still think McMahon is a much better player and far more valuable on the pitch

        • onlinesideline

          have em both on ?

        • Dud Roodt

          I think I would rather mccalman at 8, but I don’t think he was ready to start his first game.
          I really wish Timani would go full beast mode

        • Brumby Runner

          The issue is not Timani for McMahon. It is Timani (or someone else – maybe Philip, or Dempsey or Tui when fit) for Hanigan. That’s where one of our problems lies.

        • onlinesideline

          so put Macca at 6 and Tui at 8. If Pocock and Mcmahon can learn it why cant Tui ? Or Dempsey at 8. I really think we need kilos at 8.

        • jamie

          When McMahon seems to break a tackle every run, what difference does having a “bigger more specialised 8″ make?

          He’s probably the greatest user of the leg drive in the world outside of NZ. No one else pumps their legs like he does.

        • onlinesideline

          keep him in at 6 and put a more destructive defender and mauler at 8. Size matters at certain moments Jamie

        • jamie

          McMahon is probably sitting around 100-105. Not many 8s are actually that much heavier than he is.

          And besides, which 8?

        • onlinesideline

          sorry Im a bit out of it – its 6 in morning in budapest and Im hitting the hay and am not expressing things right. What Im saying is more about Hanigin at 6 where Mcmahon should be and make way for a bigger 8. That way we still have him in side becuase yes he is awesome, bu alos make way for a bigger guy like Vinapola or Piers Spies. Tui or Dempsey possibly.

        • jamie

          Jack Dempsey is only a couple kg’s heavier than McMahon..

          Only great difference is the lineout option.

        • jamie

          And for the record, I’d rather run at Will Skelton than McMahon. Sean terrifies me. McMahon is a destructive defender.

          Maul-wise, Agree. I just don’t think we have an option at the moment that isn’t on Cheika’s naughty list.

    • Hitcho

      Maybe Hooper can play 8…. I mean Poey will be back soon, he’s a 7, McMahon is a machine whatever number he wears but should be wearing 6… I don’t really think Hooper should play 8.

      Reading through the comments I wonder if people remember it wasn’t that long ago QC was a pariah, now he’s the answer to the number 10 woes? Imo Toomua was, is, and always will be better than Foley and QC but where’s he playing his Rugby yep OS. Maybe we need a Toomua clause.

      Please please please let me never again see a team sheet with Simmons and Hannigans names on it.. FFS they dead set must have photos of people!

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Mate I think one of the problems is having people guaranteed a start because they are indispensable and then having to fit others around them. Personally while I love Hoopers passion and effort I don’t think he’s a particularly effective 7 and others have to take up the roles he doesn’t do. Now saying he needs to play another position because he needs to stay on the field just makes it worse. The best player in each position that fits in with the game plan should play. Ic that’s not Hooper then he shouldn’t be on the field. Simple really

        • Hitcho

          Agreed. But (and I never thought I’d say this) Hooper is one of the best players in the Wallabies, I just don’t know what position he play’s. Sure he wears 7, hangs of the side of the scrum but that’s about it. He is everywhere though. His passion, work, tackle rate is high and he makes critical plays. This sounds stupid in my head but does he play 12? He’s solid in defense, runs hard making metres, and has good hands.

  • Gegonago

    >England’s second of the match after a kick over the top from Ben Youngs and that was followed up Jonny May

    Come on now lads that was Danny Care not Youngs

    • Haz

      Danny Care, 2 assists and 1 try. What’s the term, a ‘finisher’? It’s what you want I guess. Big impact.

      • Ed

        And when our (AUS) full replacement front-row was on, not “finishers” in the scrum.

  • DMR

    You boys are really missing Toomua as well, he has been immense this season for Tigers

    • Steve

      Please don’t remind us DMR

      • Haz

        It’s such a shame that he can’t play. Such a quality 12 that can play 10 to a good standard too

        • jamie

          I’d have him over Foley at this current time. Toomua is destroying his opposite number in England.

        • idiot savant

          Me too, but hes playing at 12 and Larkham had moved him to 12 at the Brums so he would have Buckleys of ever playing 10 back in Australia. And hes at the end of a big queue for 12, so I think hes made the only sensible decision left to him.

        • jamie

          I just think Toomua makes Hunt look amatuerish at 12, despite Hunt being a fantastic 12. I rate Toomua very very highly.

        • RedAnt

          I’m a Cooper fan but I would have still picked Toomua as the Wallabies run-on 10 four years ago. I don’t understand why Markham moved him to 12. I really think he would have been the perfect test match 10.

  • Mike Thompson

    Misc thoughts:

    1. England: athletic, dynamic, powerful. Outstanding rush defence. Magnificent defensive lineout. Low penalty count. They remind me of SA around 2007. More kicks than passes, almost.

    2. Wow, do England take their chances well or what? One sniff and bang. Impressive.

    3. Once again, an odd feeling after the game. You can see exactly how England won and won well (same as the last 4 times), but there’s a frustratingly unjust feeling about it. We played better than them, right? And yet, it was a thrashing. Again. 5 times now. Same feeling. Same result. No coincidence.

    4. And yet, I feel like that was mostly pretty good performance by the Wallabies. Can’t fault the effort. Can’t fault the defense. Better in the scrum. Worse in the lineout. Not quite enough line-bending energy in attack, to get onto the front foot, and get the attack sparked.

    5. The Wallabies handled the English (box) kicking game reasonably well. England exerted a LOT of pressure that way. I was worried about Beale handling it, but he wasn’t too bad. But he’s no Folau in terms of kick reciept. He was well supported.

    6. But, overall a poor game from Beale. A legitimate yellow and a lazy blunder not putting in the effort to get that ball into touch (leading to English try)

    7. We missed Coleman badly. He provides so much steel in defence and carries. Simmons is a passenger. I don’t understand his selection.

    8. TPN is gold. And, with him the scrum is excellent. Without him, instantly the shortarm penalties start going the other way. There’s a consistent pattern across a lot of games.

    9. Really muscular defense from the Wallabies on their tryline. Impressive.

    10. The yellow on Hooper seemed harsh.

    11. That first kick from Folley was just plain embarrassing. How can it go so wrong like that for a frontline kicker? Uggh,

    12. Kerevi will be marked down for this game. He held the ball when he should have let it go once too often. Not yet enough vision and creativity at 12.

    13. Koroibete is on track to be the best winger in world Rugby in the next couple of years. But he has to watch the in-the-air challenges when following through kicks. i had my heart in my mouth more than once.

    • Haz

      Wow what a take from Beale when it Daly had taken it, it would have been a try. Big game player.

      • Mike Thompson

        Clever targeting from England. They know that Beale is flaky, so they isolated him. Although, Beale did well this time around, 5 times out of 10, Daly takes that and scores. Clever and well executed.

        • Haz

          Was a good tactic. A good one to use on Koroibete as well I suppose. Surprised it wasn’t used more

        • Seb V

          It was used on Foley too hiding on the wing.

      • Seb V

        You mean the one where it rolls THROUGH Daly’s hands and into Beale’s. Beale didn’t out jump Daly, there was a bit of luck on his side. If Daly closed this arms earlier he scores. Beautiful timing by Beale but again a bit of luck too.

    • What if I told you the penalty count was 10-10?

      • Mike Thompson

        In response, I’d remind you of 2 yellow cards to 0, and then point out that a few of the penalties against the English were scrum related which biases the general figures. So, while I acknowledge the better Wallaby scrum, I’d still claim more discipline on the English side generally (relative to the amount of pressure applied).

    • Who?

      To be fair to Squeaky, the FK’s? They weren’t for foul play, they were for early engagement and pre-binding, so it’s not all down to the hooker. If one prop (and it was a replacement front row, not just the hooker) decides to pre-engage, that can be enough for the ref (and O’Keeffe actually reffed the scrum ok).

  • Aron

    They got a better kicking game, esp in the wet. More unpredictable and varied. Seem to recall a top spinning box kick ripping up the guts towards our tryline. When Foley shaped to kick I seriously believed it relieved the pressure on them, not us. Pop-gun 30m gentle lobs are to be savored.
    Having said that, Foley is adequate enough for our running game in the dry. He doesn’t sit deep like QC does and I appreciate that

  • lee enfield
    • BigNickHartman

      cya

  • dsb

    Enjoyed the game despite al the …. Not often a Hooper fan but he led with distinction and passion and good leadership. The Walabies played with intent and lost to the rub of the green and that white line in lousy conditions. A different day will see a different result Glad to support the team despite the loss.l

    • Haz

      Really rate Hooper personally and I don’t understand that poor reception he often gets from fans.

      Going to be honest and say England were better and deserved the win. I think it’s not a great idea to blame it on the rub of the green after 5 in a row losses because that won’t help the improvement process for next time.

      • BF

        hooper does nothing – he runs around like a dog chasing seagulls on the beach, but everyone says what a big motor he’s got

        SOS for David Pocock

      • jamie

        Hooper’s workrate and his impact often don’t line up. When it does, he’s one of the best players in the world. When it doesn’t, he’s as good as Beale was scrumming last week.

      • Ask yourself what Hooper achieved. How many turnovers he won, (balls pilfered, penalties for them holding on etc.) vs how many times he was pinged. How many times he did other things a great 7 should do, like linked with the backs to make a move go from first or second receiver say, or carried the ball up.

        He runs around and looks like he’s doing a lot, but on an international stage, he is inconsistent in how well he delivers. That’s not necessarily all his fault – he’s got a back row that are mostly not great in their positions – but he’s not delivering either.

    • Gilbert

      Some points from me.
      1. Hooper is all heart – but – he has big balls and no brain. Why would you kick for the corner when your forwards are not getting ascendency. For sucks fakes, it is a test. He did that twice and both times lost the ball.
      2. Why does Hodge not take all the kicks at goal?
      3. Why does he continue with Hannigan and Symmonds ?
      4. Geez Byrne has his work cut out for himself. Forward passes and dropped balls.
      5. Lots of bodies flying everywhere but no cohesion.
      6. They looked overwhelmed from the start.
      7. I hate loosing to England too.
      8. Last try was a great pass from Phipps (not) everybody was drained and could not run onto the ball.

  • Dud Roodt

    - Genia: fuck me, how can you go from such good form to such horrendous form in the space of a week. Every time he passed he put immense pressure on us. As much as I don’t rate Phipps I would have hooked Genia much earlier

    – Foley: fucking rubbish. Enough said. We need a genuine option in 2019

    – I don’t think for my mental health I can talk about Rob simmons any more. Dip your fucking head in the tackle you fucking pussycat

    – of course it was fucking raining

    – every 50/50 went against us, but that’s the game

    – I know Kerevi’s offload to kurindrani wasn’t great, but I still feel like a guy who plays a ball sport for a career should take it

    – I fucking hate losing to England

    • Haz

      14 point turn around that dropped ball by Kuridrani. Poor pass, but he should have taken it.

      • Parker

        Agreed. Not the only TK flub. Couldn’t understand why he wasn’t replaced and kerevi was.

        • Haz

          Tbf I rate Kuridrani is better than Kerevi. I really think that Hodge at 12 and Kuridrani is the way forwards. (Unless Toomua can play…)

        • Alister Smith

          If Toomua is available I think he would be pushing for 10

        • Dud Roodt

          Toomua has signed until 2019 though?

        • Alister Smith

          Yeah…that sucks

      • Who?

        I still can’t figure out how the turnover on the deck (with Launchbury playing the ball on the deck) that preceded the kick downfield, returned by Kerevi, was considered legal. It was within 2 phases of the try (there was no other completed tackle between that turnover and the try!), why no review..?
        But then, that’s what happens at Twickers. This game has me remembering Mike Brown’s boots on the sideline in 2013, and Squeaky being obstructed which allowed a try…

        • John Tynan

          I was screaming like a Farrell to go back and look at that dodgy turnover!!!

        • Who?

          Screaming like a Farrell – love it! That’s got to be a new G&GR expression. :-D

    • Patrick

      Yep esp on Foley. My heart sunk when I saw him lining up for the first penalty.

      And Hanigan actually had a good game but wasn’t what we needed, and bloody everyone knew that before kick-off :(

      • Seb V

        I think his first miss at goal dictated the next penalty and turning down the points to go for the line – which is the wrong call in those conditions. Our Captain is clearly losing confidence in his kicking too and now makes decisions accordingly, any other kicker and we take the easy points.

        • McWarren

          A smart captain, a leader, hands the ball to Hodge.

        • Waz_dog

          A smart coach empowers the captain to make that choice, not take it that choice from them.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Yep it is so disheartning to see such a shit game from the senior players.
      Foley is proving more and more of a liability but unfortunately there is no one else because the coaches won’t bring anyone through and because there is not growth in the Super teams. If something isn’t done soon this will be the biggest weakness going into the RWC.

      Mate. not only Simmons, I think we just need to accept that under Cheika we will always have an inneffective lock and a 6 who apparently are good in lineouts so the rest of their shit play doesn’t matter.

      • onlinesideline

        Mate we are being outcoached on a number of fronts. Eddie is just shaking his head, thinking “this is just too easy”. I swear Foley has some dirt on Cheika because this is just becoming pathetic. The only thing I can think of is that Coleman, Rodda, Tui and Dempsey would have made the world of difference and gave Foley better ball. I bet Cheika wishes he never played Tui and Dempsey in the baabaas match. For those who think players shouldnt be cotton wooled, this is what happens.

        • Haz

          You say Foley has dirt on Cheika but who’s the alrernative (other than cooper)?

        • onlinesideline

          Cooper

        • BF

          It was Toomua, but cheika short changed him for his waratah pets

        • Upfromdown

          Toomua is on the record in the UK press as saying given his injuries he is taking the cash and experiencing overseas rugby while he can.

        • McWarren

          Okay, so firstly why other than Cooper? And secondly why bring an up and coming 7 on tour as a development player? Next year will he really be pushing Pocock or Hooper for selection? Why not bring two young 10’s? We have backrowers coming out of our, well, backside, but apparently only 1 flyhalf.

        • idiot savant

          He did bring two back up 10s on tour – Beale and Hodge.

        • McWarren

          Sorry my bad, I forgot about the fullbacks and centres.

        • jamie

          You honestly think Cooper would’ve played worse than Foley? He’s cost us several games himself JUST this year alone. 2015 Foley vs England is gone. He’s dreadful.

        • McWarren

          So should he have cotton wooled Coleman last week, to save him for the toughest game on tour. Instead of Ned & Rob the flower pot men he could have brought Nasirani and played Phillips.

        • onlinesideline

          No a test is a test and its Wales. The baabaaas on the other hand just after a Bledisloe and 1 week out of anorthern tour, most definitely save Tui and Dempsey from potential injury. Baabaa matches were traditionally played at end of seasons, not in between jam packed 2017 global calenders in which it takes a huge amount of time and energy on coaches part and players part to select correct combinations and get to peak fitness respecfully, and also a balanced workload. I thought it was absolutely idiotic of MC to play those 2 and I said it before the match.

        • McWarren

          it didn’t bother the AB’s OLSL

        • Jason

          >I swear Foley has some dirt on Cheika because this is just becoming pathetic.

          If only we had another Australian Fly half who is playing Super Rugby and could come in for stretches, you know not your first choice fly half but someone who can play at that level but perhaps is a bit erratic. Maybe you know around the 70 cap mark. Someone who could actually put those centers *Yamato* and *Musashi* in holes rather than giving them the ball and telling ‘em to just bust through.

          As for not playing Tui and Dempsey, I disagree. We have a handful (a small handful but still) of players playing NRC who could easily step up tomorrow if Cheika could select players better than my sister — Tom Staniforth, Jed Holloway, Rob Valetini, Caleb Timu (NRC Player of the year I might add), Angus Scott-Young.

          Cheika just has this daft ideology about how his teams must play and makes his selections (apparently) based on how well he thinks the guys are doing in training (I mean the alternative theory is he has no reasoning, so that’s a plus right).

        • onlinesideline

          I agree with you completely mate. I mentioned those players as blokes that have been invited into MC world but agree entirely there are plenty of guys capable of higher honours, for sure.

          Agree on Q too but we have to let it go apparantely.

      • Sevenwithasixonmyback

        The English know ‘Nard is a weakness, too. Hiding him out the back in some left-wing/fullback position simply had them sending the ball downfield his way, confident he’d muck it up somehow. And if he didn’t, sooner or later at the breakdown, Genia was going to throw some wild high pass and a break downfield was on. Plenty of them, too.
        Slotting KB into first receiver seemed a worthy tactic, if only to allow Foley that extra second of thinking time and push the ball wider for our Fijians to barrel on through. Didn’t help much.
        His kicking game is also now so dubious that he can’t be considered first choice. Those penalty shots were nothing short of terrible.
        Hodge had a cool game. In much of the play. Played within himself and had good impact. Proved to be trustworthy. A keeper. And his kicking is proven and trustworthy too.
        Our pass receptions were scrappy and led to too many handling errors, but that’s ’cause our passes from the playmakers were scrappy first-up.
        A game we should have won and could have won but ruined across the park.
        Hooper was an action man. Played a quality 7 game. Best in Gold. Never thought I’d say that.
        Matt Philip over Simmons to start next time. He’s still finding his international brain, but when it clicks in watch out.

    • Michael Hassall

      And wht was it that kerevi was the last defender after hours run and tevita dripping ir. Where was the rest of the team.

    • John Miller

      Though only on the pitch for scant nanoseconds, Phipps still managed one of his signature scattergun bounce balls with 4 open targets awaiting which gifted England their last try. He is not, and has never been, the answer.

      • Dud Roodt

        Totally agree. But Genia was throwing wild passes at least 50% of the time

    • Who?

      You can whinge about Genia, but Phipps threw a pass directly to England for their last try…
      Simmons isn’t the only one who needs to figure out how to get lower. It seems – after watching the last two games – that the focus on tackling in the NH is now on mauling, given the laws have now all but eliminated the battle on the ground. I hate these stupid law changes. As much as I hate losing to England (and that’s a Hiberno-Australian talking!).

  • Haz

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11945501

    NZ herald reporting that Cheika was speaking to the ref at half time (again). Worrying as he could get a ban?

    • muffy

      I was ready to renew my Kiwi press disgust, but that was as fair and reasoned write up from NZ on Aus rugby as I can recall reading.

    • Brumby Runner

      Did he enter the officials’ dressing room again? If he’s at fault here, he deserves to be suspended given his earlier warnings.

  • Will Honeycomb

    I was at the match, and I’m cheesed off. The one consolation of all the late tries after the match was lost is that it will convince the English they were good.

    On the basis of what I saw, we’re more likely than England to make the World Cup final than England.

    I’ve never been so angry.

    The things to pay attention to:

    1. For the 20 minutes we were one or two men down we were rock solid. England failed to pass the ball wide. They had three of the fastest backs in the world and they wouldn’t get the ball to the them. Just stupid.

    2. The genuine line breaks were Australian.

    3. Our scrum was better (it surprised me)

    4. Their box kicking didn’t work.

    5. Our attack was more inventive.

    • Haz

      I mean you can always try and take positives but 5/5 doesn’t lie. England dominated in most facets of play imo and the second rows aren’t good enough and the defence in the backs isn’t good enough. The game management isn’t good enough.

      • Old_Laurentian

        Hang on, don’t be so hard. We almost, nearly scored a try!

    • mikado

      I’d agree with those five points, especially the first one. England were very disappointing with the YC advantage.

      • Haz

        That’s one way of looking at it but I think you’ve got to give the team credit for minimising the damage during the sun bin period?

        Like dropping the scrum to kill time etc

        • mikado

          Yes, credit to Australia. But with a man advantage (let alone two) you’ve got to keep ball in hand and stretch the opposition. England put Australia under little pressure in that time.

        • Haz

          Yeah very true but I’m not sure you’re giving enough credit to the team for stopping that from happening

        • Old_Laurentian

          Bit why put yourself in that position in the first place? Wouldn’t it be better to play with 15 men?

    • FunBus

      You’re absolutely right, Will. As a pom rugby fan I’m in despair and don’t really know where we’re going to go from this 24 point, 5th victory in a row over the WBs.
      I think, sack the coach and most of the players.

      • Pedro

        Some might go on an Australian blog to gloat.

      • FunBus

        Wow, that’s the most thin-skinned editorial intervention I’ve ever seen on a sports blog.

    • idiot savant

      Points 2 and 5 have been the same in all 5 of our losses to the Poms. So we need more strategy than being able to break the line. And while points 2 and 5 are true, we didnt score a try which means the Poms defence needs to be respected.

      I agree about our scrum. We have really improved there. Not sure about the box kicks not working. I think they did overall by keeping us out of their territory for longer periods.

    • adastra32

      And you lost. Again. On the basis of this alone, your point about being more likely to make the RWC final is tosh. What should be even more concerning is that, from the look of it, Aus does not have the strength in depth to make it all the way successfully in what can be a brutal tournament. And it won’t matter how many of the European “Disappeared” are coaxed back….

  • Pedro

    I think the Beale yellow was yellow every day. The only way you’d get away with it would be that you’re already on a yellow and the ref is sympathetic. That being said I thought there was also a case for May to be called for a deliberate knock down in the eighth minute off a kerevi pass, it was called only a knock on.

    • BF

      A few years ago, i don’t remember cheika complaining when Fardy was yellow carded for the knock down when he was coaching the waratahs against the brumbies

      • Pedro

        I think we can all agree the rule is problematic, but there is no simple solution.

    • Michael Hassall

      And the english lock, itojeo or laws, offside at a maul and de liberately knocking the ball down and yet penalty not yellows card. The ref seemed to see only 1 team out there .

      Having said that, when was the last time we beat a higher ranked team in an important game?

    • Mica

      Just needs to be consistent – either they both were or neither were. In my opinion both were reaching for the ball which indicates trying to intercept it rather than slap it down.
      Funny thing is that if you are trying to intercept, but aren’t in a position to get the intercept, then this will probably be called a deliberate knock on.
      This is probably the most arbitrary call that a ref will make which is why I come back to consistency.

  • onlinesideline

    In the 69th minute, Genia passed openside from the ruck 15m out leading to Moore’s obstruction, if he passed blindside, like he usually does 90% of the time in those situations we had ooodles of space. Hunt was there ready and waiting. Was 7 points in the bag. We were just our own worst enemies today. Of all the days for Genia to have a shitte game.

    • Brumby Runner

      No guarantee Hunt would have caught and held the pass. He had a couple of opportunities to collect passes and duffed them both.

  • Brisneyland Local

    Well good morning fellow GAGR’s from the sunny Adealaide Hills (surprisingly enough I have survived and havnt ended up a body in a barrel). My points in no particular order:
    – What a difference a week makes hey. That wasnt particularly good.
    – THe Wallabies didnt play to the conditions. The English didnt have a particularly good game, but played to the conditions and ground out a good win with a score line that was a little bit flattering.
    – Our dropsies are back. And that ladies and gentlemen almost cost me my hotel security deposit. Lucky I had a case of the Foley’s and shanked my beer bottle throw and it didnt do any damage to my hotel room wall.
    – Hooper is a great player and played his heart out, but is not a Captain. Bad decision making and poor referee relations. His yellow was a yellow, he was clearly warned and infringed twice in two mins. Now the most yellow carded player according to ESPN. This is not what we need as a cpatian, he is not leading by example.
    – The Beale yellow was a fair yellow. His talking to the referee was disrespectful. Genia was disrespectful too, and touching the referee is an absolute no go!
    – Genia played poorly, which was dissapointing,
    – Foley was not good at all.
    – Beale was dissapointing.
    – Symmonds and Hannigan were not good.

    The Positives.
    – Our scrum was good til the bench came on. It held and on feed was even dominant.
    – Our attack was good til we coughed up the pill.
    – Hodge is wonderful kicker. Why isnt he doing it all the time.

    I am not the best lip reader but Cheika said some pretty ugly things on camera (in my interpretation) and I wonder if there will be follow up action on that and also him talking to the Ref at half time. either way, embarrassing behaviour for a national coach.

    This was definitely not the performance I wanted to see from the Wallabies.

    • Haz

      Some good analysis there imo.

      The main takeaway imo is that Hanigan and Simmonds just aren’t good enough at this level. But what’s the answer?

      • Brisneyland Local

        Can I buy a vowel? ;-)

      • jamie

        Coleman. Rodda. Tui. Dempsey. Isi. Fardy.

        Any of them. Any of them will do.

      • Upfromdown

        Hannigan has time, thankfully. Simmons with the likes of Coleman, Rodda, Tui, Arnolds, Philip isn’t really needed. 1 decent game in 10 tests isn’t good enough.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Glad you survived mate. I hear Adelaide can almost bore you to death. My wife reckons the reason they lost the F1 was the drivers falling asleep from the boredom.
      As usual some good points. I just don’t think there’ll be a lot of changes because the lack of strategic thinking isn’t providing any options. In almost every other team there is a natural back up to cover injury or poor form but there’s no planning like that in the Wallabies so we’re stuck with players who are so secure they don’t need to improve.
      Sorry disagree on Hooper. A guy with a lot of heart and energy but actually pretty ineffective a lot of the time

      • Brisneyland Local

        Yep, other than the wine regions it isnt the flashest of cities that much I assure you!
        I dont think he is effective, he certainly palys his guts out, and is fit and work hard, but I dont think he plays his position, and he really is a shit captain. I would rather Pocock in at 7 and have Hooper as an impact player off the bench in the last 20-30.

        • McWarren

          BL show me a quality international 7 who isn’t fit, plays his guts out and works all day. It’s part of the positions job description of you ask me not something that Hooper brings uniquely to his position.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Very true!

      • onlinesideline

        I rather be bored but able to pay my mortgage and so would a lot of sydney siders who have picked Adelaide as their new home.

    • McWarren

      No need for a lip reader in our house. The kids a well versed in colourful language today. It kind of seeped into their dreams at 2.30am.

      • Brisneyland Local

        Well the funny thing in the BL household. I am hearing imparied (after 20 yeras in the Army and lots of loud bangs and shit going off) . So lip reading after years of classes is how I function.
        I was being gentle. You didnt need to lip rad to work out what he was saying and how pathectically disrespectful he was being. Utterly appalling.
        Also after 20 yers in the Army my children are also well in language they shouldnt be.

        • Greg

          Welcome to the club. I am profoundly impaired in one ear and severely impaired in the other. Nothing as exciting as loud bangs…. just one of those things.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yep. I hear you (actually I cant! ) ha ha

        • McWarren

          Are you sure it’s hearing impaired and not the fact you’re 6’8!

        • Brisneyland Local

          The good thing about being that tall is you are in the upper atmosphere and there is a lot less ambient noise. But unfortunately I am deaf as a post! And lip reading is the pretty much how I function day to day.

        • Greg

          Perhaps not the best place for the discussion…. but have you investigated hearing aids and/or cochlear implants? Neither are perfect but both can make a big difference to speech intelligibility in many situations. Noise is indeed one of the biggest challenges.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yep have trialled aids and they just dont assist the hearing range where the damage is. I have learned to live with it. Even if it drives my wife insane!

  • Duvstar

    God I hate losing to England.

    Can someone clear up a rule clarification for for me on the first try. For me the sequence went:

    1) Kuridrani kicks a (great) kick through, Hooper is offside

    2) Kuridrani runs ahead of Hooper playing him onside (need to go back and double check this, thought was the case on first viewing

    3) Koroibete kicks on when Hooper is behind him so onside and scores the try

    Or have I got that wrong?

    • Mart

      Yeah I saw it that way, is that how the rules work? love to know

      • FunBus

        The law is if you’re in an offside position and keep
        Moving forwards you can’t be played ‘onside’ by the player overtaking you.

        • Haz

          Well I guess that clarifies it then

        • Andrew Luscombe

          But Hooper did ease off at that point. It takes a few steps to stop (laws of physics) and by the time he took a few slowing down steps I thought he was on side again. Possibly it’s a case of the slow motion making the offense by exagerating the time Hooper had to stop.

        • Haz

          I guess it’s up to interpretation but if you start 5m offside it’s going to be tough to prove you’ve got yourself back onside

        • onlinesideline

          Thats the weird thing about both rugby and cricket still which are very hard things to justify / explain to outsiders. It’s this greyness which maybe makes the 2 games hold a weird kind of allure, that they are open to refing / umpire interpretation and other nuances. Maybe thats why the perfect performance / perfect game seems to always remain “just” out of reach and will forever be the dangling carrot that keeps us turning up every weekend.

        • mikado

          It seemed to me Hooper made little effort to stop. And notwithstanding effort, the fact he kept moving forward meant he was offside when he played the ball. Correct call by the ref, albeit Australia a little unlucky it was spotted.

        • McWarren

          Yeah but he needed to change direction, and if he couldn’t do either he needed to stop and start again. It’s hard for him cause it’s happening so quickly, but still the right decision. It hurt though.

        • Hoss

          Well every fucking box kick in the world is now a penalty then.

    • Haz

      I think it’s because Hooper moved forwards whilst offside until he was run offside. Unsure on the actual rule though.

    • Pedro

      It’s only a penalty if you score a try off it. This kind of thing would get missed a lot to the naked eye.

    • McWarren

      Hooper made no effort to not stop moving toward the ball. I don’t believed Koroibete got a touch on the ball but it wouldn’t matter. If Hooper had done what he should have he wouldn’t have been first to the ball. I think it was a correct decision.

      I don’t believe the decision to disallow Koroibete try was correct. At no stage did Moore impede the defence, Robshaw had a clear shot at Koroibete and fucked it.

      • Brumby Runner

        Just for the sake of balance. Had Koriobete run into Moore anywhere else on the field it would immediately be called accidental offside and a scrum awarded. The bigger issue is whether or not play was under advantage to the Wallabies at the time.

        • Hoss

          And……the ref had asked the TMO to look at England being offside at the time the tackle was made and unless Robshaw was playing fly half for us he was a mile offside…..so no try, penalty Wallabies. Every time the game was there for the taking we lost momentum through a combination of poor play and poor officiating. The ref didnt cost us the game, but he sure didnt help.

  • Simon

    The concept of “finishers” has become almost laughable. It’s been a long time now since the bench has raised the tempo compared with the opposition and this test was the worst example of it.

    Robertson was again clearly not ready for this level and at least 10kg too light. The scrum went into reverse when he came on.

    And Phipps was woeful – again. I’d be interested in others’ thoughts because I don’t have a replay handy so this is from memory but as far as I’m concerned he was directly responsible for both England’s last two tries. The 9 should have been back covering the kick through, Genia would definitely have been there. Beale was back covering the crossfield kick but he was the only one not in the line, which is even more inexcusable since England have used that tactic repeatedly in their last four victories over us.

    And then the last try came directly from Phipps spraying passes all over the place again. He is so inaccurate it kills any forward momentum of the receiver.

    What’s worst of all is neither of those performances were in any way unusual for those players, yet they are apparently untouchable. Meanwhile guys like Higgers or Faulkner are dropped for anything less than MotM performances, and they and the match officials are to blame for losses. A psychoanalyst would have a field day with it all.

    • Old_Laurentian

      Great point re our ‘finishers’ vs theirs!

  • Hitcho

    Dear Mr Cheika. Please stop carrying on like a whiney bitch! I get some calls are frustrating and downright infuriating but you are the coach of a National team.
    How exactly do you expect the team to keep their composure whe you can’t. This behaviour is cringe worthy and is really getting old.

    • Garry

      So Michael, you decide to disrespect the ref by not meeting with him and Eddie the lap dog, before the match, and cry foul when all the 50-50’s don’t fall our way???? ( they’re not called 70-30’s for a reason). Your pig-headedness has cost us another loss to the Poms.

      Hold the front page, I want to draw the grizzled clown caricature myself.

    • BigNickHartman

      Have you watched the pressers? Watch them

      • onlinesideline

        I think the damage is done by the time he reaches the presser though. Its not the first time hes blown his lid on the box only to realise that he has to calm the f..k down at press time to save the situation.

        • Bakkies

          There is nowhere to hide in the U.K. as some stadiums have coaches boxes out amongst the public and you often have dignitaries sitting in the vicinity

      • Waz_dog

        What is this comment meant to mean? You can put as much lipstick on a pig as you want, it’s still a pig. He’s a pig headed, hot blooded, one dimensional coach. He can act as calm and polite as he likes in a presser – horse has bolted. He’s shown his colours from SR all through to his national coach role – time and time and time and time again he has his brain explosions. I’m embarrassed as an Aussie to watch our nation coach act like that. Fark what niceties he tries to paper over in a presser. Yes, I watched the presser.

      • Hitcho

        Yeah I have. I also watched when the camera panned to him Every 5 seconds because they knew he was going to go off because that’s all he ever does. I also saw the interaction with the officials at halftime, the interaction with a crowd member on the way down the stairs, the engagement with the albeit dickhead journo at the end etc etc… none of this is the behaviour of an international coach and definitely not the behaviour I expect from the coach of Australia’s national Rugby team.

        • BigNickHartman

          yeah, fair enough. he has history, but i feel its beginning to be framed more that way…eg interaction with BBC reporter. SMH report was titled “Cheika fumes” which i felt was really unfair

        • Hitcho

          Cheika hasn’t just got history he’s got currency. He deserves reports as you describe in the SMH titled “Cheika fumes” because that’s exactly what happened. I don’t understand why you’re defending him. His behaviour is indefensible. If I was writing the story it would have been titled “Cheika behaves like a total twat and embarrasses himself, his team, and his country” it’s more accurate but less catchy.

        • BigNickHartman

          Well I’m part of his country and I’m not embarrassed. Don’t think his team are either

        • Hitcho

          That’s more of a statement reflecting you personally.

        • BigNickHartman

          Well, duh. Trying to point out you’re projecting your feelings onto others

        • Hitcho

          Ha ha yeah ok. I made a comment. No one had to agree with me (but they did). You didn’t have to comment (but you did)… We don’t have to agree so I guess we won’t. Enjoy your day, cheers.

        • BigNickHartman

          sorry for having a conversation in a comments section…from now on we’ll wall off your comments from any interaction ;)

        • Hitcho

          Mate always happy to have a conversation even a difference of opinion with folk that’s cool we don’t have to agree, but if you feel that strongly about it wall away.

        • Hoss

          The nerve of that man- a coach that shows emotion and stands up for his team and he has the temerity to ‘mouth’ flocking cheese’ (thats my interpretation). What a bastard……Lets hang him, get a PC coach in who holds hands and sings Kumbaya with the team before the game and delivers us from evil………..Amen

  • McWarren

    I came away from that happy to know we physically have the better cattle, bar A few fucking wastes of space Cheika insists on.

    We lost that game for two reasons, Genia had a shit day with his passing. Secondly because we are dumb and have no leadership. Our coach is too busy throwing tantrum to think on his feet during a game, our captain is to thick to work out what the obvious next step is. Our senior players are incapable of intervening and telling our captain, ‘mate it’s wet, we have a guy with an accurate monster boot lets use him to get downfield and take any shot at goals from 60 out, when we’re up by 12 or 15 with 10 to play then we’ll give Bernard permission to dummy, run and look to put only Hoops through a gap’.

    I’m embarrassed by that game not because they scored 5 tries but because we are dumb and we are dumb at things U12 teams know how to do.

    Kepu and Kerevi were finally making our n roads and breaks with 15 to go, what does dummy spitter do? He pulls them off!! Kepu was killing them in the scrum and in open play, leave him him on. Beale was shit today so why not put Hunt on for him? I’ll tell you why, cause our coach is busy feeling aggrieved by the refs correct decisions, if he was paying attention and had half a clue as to how to read a game we may have seen a closer loss.

    If that game doesn’t convince you that Michael Cheika, Michael Hooper and Bernard Foley are not not going to lead us to glory in Japan then I don’t know what will.

    Hooper should be on our bench to reek havoc with 20 to go. Bernard should now be enjoying the NRC off season. Cheika is a disgrace to the Wallaby name, too see your coach getting caught in banter with an opposition supporter midway through a game is to me shocking.

    I thought the ref was good in parts, I think Otoje should have been binned for slapping the ball down. I think Hooper should at least have received warnings that a yellow was coming. He gave that courtesy to England and the pulled there head in.

    Is it coincidence that we played our smartest rugby when Hooper was off? And to those commentators who said he has such a big engine? He just had a 20 minute siesta.

    Hanigan has to go, and to be consistent so does Simmons. Some said earlier in the week Ned was picked for his line out ability, well I think we won our lineouts, I don’t recall how many he got, but we still lost the gain line battle and thereby lost the game.

    KB deserves a red card in my mind for his chase back to get the kick that Elliot beat him too. In the fullbacks club I dare say that was a hangable offence.

    So at the end of this tour can anyone tell me what the benefit of bringing Stephen Moore has been. I love the guy, but what has his involvement done for next year?

    I thought Kerevi did better in this game, but he really gets shown up for a lack of pace when in the open. He needs his speedsters to be right beside him.

    Reece Hodge had an average game by his standards and really isn’t a winger. He is a centre or fullback. He most definitely isn’t a 10. In fact if we are going to use his kicks ng so sparingly I rather have another speedster on the wing, like Perese. For me I think he’s a hard working crash balling 12 who can clear our lines and goal kick.

    Beale isn’t sure what he wants to be. He’s a strike weapon from the bench.

    McMahon was my Wallaby MOTM closely followed by Kepu or Taf. Soo was immense in D as well.

    Endever had a very solid debut and was far more effective than Simmons.

    • mikado

      Loads of good points there. Only one thing I’d disagree with. Hodge’s monster boot is not all that accurate.

      • McWarren

        Yes but more accurate than Foleys

      • onlinesideline

        9 from 9 – 2 weeks ago, pretty accurate ?
        If Cheika lets ppl settle in one fucking position and let the designated kicker know that he is the designated kicker so that he can practise knowing he is the kicker then …..
        Foley is the worst stricker of a rugby ball I have ever seen at test level of any nation in 35 years of watch rugby. He doesnt kick the ball, he stabs at it like a sand wedge in a bunker. The ball actually looks like its in pain as its floating through the air.

        • Adam

          His foot placement is so inconsistent and he has no follow through

        • Adam

          Sorry…I meant foley’s foot placement not hodge. I think is very solid

      • jamie

        Considering most of his shots on goal in test matches have been from 50m+, and when he had a chance to kick all of them v Japan he made 9 from 9, I’d say he’s pretty accurate compared to other kickers around the world.

        • mikado

          Fair enough, you guys know a lot more about his kicking than I do. I agree Hodge is superb at long range. But it seems to me that when I’ve seen him kicking from short range or from hand, his accuracy has been similar to Foley’s.

        • jamie

          9 from 9 against Japan in his only real test as #1 Kicker. From hand he can be a bit wonky occasionally, but his sheer distance makes up for that.

    • Pedro

      Just breathe.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Nice write up mate. I agree on Perese as I think he’s got really good all round skills. Fast, tackles well, got a good boot on him and really positive and looks for work.
      I like Kerevi and I think he’s got a good future if the right players are around him. Need a good 10 desperately as Foley’s getting worse. I’d like to see Hodge at 13 as I think he’s got a good head and can really support Kerevi.
      Mate I have never been keen on either Beale or Hooper so with you there. I think both are over rated and neither of them actually seems to know what their role is.
      Not saying any more on Simmons and Hanigan it just hurts too much

      • onlinesideline

        Agree Kurtley has some weaknesses but re his role, is it really his fault if hes unsure. I say a number of players have identity issues due to the ease with which MC swaps people around. (Deans was guilty of the same thing with us). If he picks players in the positions they specialised in, on their journey to get to the national side instead of getting them to learn new roles once they reach the national side, the players state of mind would be so much more relaxed and clear. This notion he has of changing ppl around both in the forwards and backs is just insane. If Izzy isnt playing, then bring in the no 2 full back in the country and so on throughout the team. This roving, utilty idea in the backs and treating a 7 like an 8 and an 8 like a 6 is just killing us. Saying we dont have the depth is absolute crap. Pick a 1st XV in position and a 2nd XV in position and select accordingly, even if we bench good players in other positions.

        • idiot savant

          But Cheika is a genius. No one else in Australia understands his systems, so its no good relying on players coached by others. We are better off having people from within the squad who understand the way Cheika wants the game played, other wise (like Kerevi) they make mistakes. We’re not like NZ where all the Mitre 10 and Super Rugby sides essentially play the same kind of players in each position.

        • Bernie Chan

          IS…You are so well named…I had thought Cheika was some kind of rugby savant, because as you noted, no one else understands what Cheika is doing…

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Mate I agree 100% I’m not sure what the coaches think they’re achieving with all the swapping of players and having them in different positions in the Wallabies but I’m not sure it’s ever going to be successful in the long term

    • Tommy Brady

      Cool heads win big matches. Cool heads make good decisions, execute under pressure, win the big moments.
      Emotional heads get excitable, get distracted, lose focus, make mistakes.
      Michael Cheika is most obsessed about beating 2 teams. In 11 attempts in the past 2 years he is Won 1, Lost 10. Based on this morning’s latest effort – that message is still not getting through.

      • Waz_dog

        Nail this exactly – well said.

      • Old_Laurentian

        Yup. It’s hard to support Cheika. Like, wow, we nearly scored a try.

    • Adrian

      Agree With most of your points McWarren.

      Keys for me were poor play by SENIOR PLAYERS, and inability to alter tactics.

      I do think that we were on the wrong side of about six 50:50 calls, but that happens now and then. I don’t think it was a conspiracy.

      Interestingly, the players on the field handled being 1 and 2 men down, and we didn’t leak points. It (and other 50:50 calls) affected coach (as you mentioned), and that effected the team.

      I’d try and learn from this if I was Cheika, … because we have the troops to win these games

      • onlinesideline

        what senior players are you specifically referring to?
        The fact is we dont have many and the ones I can think of TPN and Sekope played really well, especially Sekope dont you think ?

        • Adrian

          Yes, Kepu best.
          Senior players I’m referring to (in this match) are Genia (especially), and to a slightly lesser extent Hooper, Foley, Beale and Moore, in things related to composure or adaptability.

          In regards to skills, the following all did good stuff, but made big errors too:
          Genia, Foley, Kurandrani, Beale, Hodge, Simmons

        • onlinesideline

          yeah fair enough. The fact that Moore didnt adds more weight to the idea that hes done and is a passenger. He looks retired on the pitch.
          Genia was a massive dissapointment today. It was his reactions to his mistakes, more than the actual mistakes that was strange. He just didnt seem to be in the mood for the pressure of game day today. He has a history of this a bit.

        • Old_Laurentian

          As a long term Reds supporter I can only agree. He does.

        • Who?

          Genia’s having a tough time over there because of the change in the laws. I missed last week’s game until tonight. From what I’ve seen, he’s jumping backwards from pretty well every breakdown to clear the ball. That’s no way to deliver accurate ball. But given the demand for fast ball and the way our ball runners are almost universally going into contact far too high against teams who are focusing on mauling every tackle (as the contest on the ground has effectively been eliminated from the game due to World Rugby’s abhorrent and insane new law changes), there’s no other way for him to work. They’re going in high, the cleanout’s not universally effective, and he’s clearing the ball as the breakdown falls (with monotonous regularity) to our side of the tackle line.
          Combine the poor conditions and the change in laws, it needs significant tactical consideration and variation, and Cheika and Larkham haven’t provided that. Beyond using the gerryowen off Foley.
          Moore didn’t really have any issues with composure out there tonight – he wasn’t in that role, unlike the previous week, where he managed the clock very well for Hooper’s previous YC.

      • adastra32

        “They are some of the best cavalry in Europe – and the worst-led”

    • FunBus

      You ‘physically have the better cattle.’ That’s a mighty big call on the back of a 24 point loss that’s your fifth on the trot in 18 months.

      • McWarren

        And one I stand by 100% mate, even your commentators thought we played all the rugby. That doesn’t mean we deserved to win any of the last 5 games, just that even though we have about 1/5 the playing stock of you fella’s we still have better quality cattle. I know that’s hard for you take but do try. At one point the commentators were praising Farrell and England for playing smart rugby, and that gave me the shits initially, but they were right. England, or should I say your Australian coach, are smarter than us and our Australian coach. Rugby for all its brutality is still won and lost between the ears. So well done, you deserved the win. We’ll be back with our better cattle and smarter play, but probably not until Cheika has been shown the door.

        • Chris Bennett

          If you think about what actually happened when we came to visit you guys last year the Wallabies created some wonderful running rugby that looked great (as they often do). But a lot of the fancy moves either didn’t get anywhere or took time. England spent a lot less time with the ball but were a lot more effective with it. We don’t tend to do the fancy stuff very well (almost guaranteed handling error) but when we do move the ball it goes fast.

        • McWarren

          i agree Chris, England are far more efficient and smart. We have the players and coaches to achieve that but not in current Wallaby set up. About 75% of the wallaby squad have what it takes, the entire coaching panel do not.

          My money is on Scotland winning this weekend.

    • Who?

      Great rant. Especially agree about the complete lack of warnings for cumulative infringements before Hooper’s YC (especially given several of those infringements weren’t actually blown – normally it’s multiple AWARDED penalties, then a warning, then someone goes). And about Itoje’s lack of a YC given his infringement was double (deliberate knock down and done from an offside position). Plus, he got away with turning over that lineout in his 22 early in the game because he didn’t give a gap!
      O’Keeffe’s issues generally weren’t about application of law, they were more about game management. What decent ref lets a captain whinge in his ear for three minutes as Farrell did to get Koroibete’s try ignored? Eddie said he was the best ref in the world for this game – I can’t imagine any world where any of the current Kiwi refs (I rate NONE of them) are anywhere near the best ref in the world… Where was Owens? We couldn’t have Barnes because he’s a Pom, or Gardner because he’s an Aussie.
      Wonder if you’ll get a call from Cheik..?

      • I agree Itoje should have been carded as well, but I think Hooper’s card was a reasonable call. O’Keefe called penalty advantage against Hooper 3 times in the red zone in about two minutes, carried on playing the advantage as England retained possession until the last time. He’s not obliged to stop the game to warn anyone or give the penalty – the players should be aware enough to listen and play a bit more cautiously. He’s certainly not the finished article as a test-level referee but I don’t think he’s terrible. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have carded Itoje as well, though.

        And Beale’s reaction to being carded was frankly outrageous. Did he think because he’s Beale or because Hooper was already in the bin he was exempt from being carded for something that has been a YC offence in every match at every level for the last year or so? There’s a separate discussion about should a deliberate knock-on be an automatic yellow as well as a penalty, but it’s not like it’s a new law interpretation.

        Cheika’s interview seemed to imply that the Hooper try shouldn’t have been called for offside, when it was clearly offside, because England were offside at mauls from lineouts from what he said. He might have a complaint that England were offside a lot after lineouts, playing high speed blitz defences will always risk that, but how does that mean they shouldn’t check someone was 5 metres offside at the kick and disallow the try for that? In Cheika’s mind it seems so.

        I can’t help thinking Cheika acts like he’s paranoid and he’s inculcating that attitude in his players. And perhaps that’s why he won’t pick players outside the squad and shifts players around all the time rather than bringing in fresh talent that is used to playing in the position.

        I also can’t help but think the score line flatters England. They weren’t good for a 24 point margin. They played better and I’m afraid to say I think they deserved to win, much though that pains me to say, but 20-6 or 25-11 or something like that would have been a fairer reflection of the game.

        • Who?

          I think the Hooper offside in the try was harsh. Koroiobete ran him onside (Marika was behind the kicker, and within 3m Hooper had been run onside – he was, after all, running more sideways than forwards, and he only changed his track to be more vertical after he was onside). He was technically offside for a period of about 2 seconds/3 metres (player behind the kick can run you onside).
          Davies wasn’t carded for his ruled deliberate knock down last week. I agree the automatic YC is another discussion (I don’t think it should be), but the context of consistency inside and outside the game is still relevant.
          And in terms of the cumulative YC, Kiwi teams regularly get away with more than 4 penalized (i.e. not just advantages) infractions in a row before copping one. :-P
          But Hooper wasn’t responsible for all the infractions. The two offsides, sure, but the rest weren’t him. Further, I’d argue O’Keeffe’s complaint about tackling the lifter was misguided – Robshaw was the lifter, he moved in front of the jumper to create an obstruction, which was the correct first call. I don’t expect him to stop the game, but repeated infractions result in a warning, and the next penalty is a YC…
          No question England were the better team. It’s frustrating seeing the same failings in our teams year after year… A glimmer of hope, then the same stupidity returns. But I agree the margin was generous to them, and that’s where I think O’Keeffe determined the margin, not the result. Because 20 minutes down a player hurts, eventually.

        • onlinesideline

          13-6 at 70th minute and was nealry 13 all – then Boom, all gone in 8 and half minutes.

  • Hoss

    ‘Excuse me officer, i would like to report a mugging’

    Good morning my fellow convict brethren (thought i’d get that in before the English start in)

    WTF was that – 10 to go and i still thought we were a chance and then all hell breaks loose !!

    A few random observations:

    * Kepu, Sio, Taf, Mcmahon & Hooper were tremendous
    * Set piece was strong
    * Simmons,, Hanigan – its all said by others
    * Genia – WTF did he put on his Weetbix this week – he was diabolical
    * Watching Foley kick / play is like watching Ian Baker-Finch putt in the the 1990’s – you cant watch, but you cant look away – but you feel sick in the guts with expectation – it almost masochistic selecting him
    * Dropped too much pill
    * Bench was ineffective
    * The officials – well, they officiated didn’t t they. I would like to see a replay – we are 1m out from Poms line, there defence is all over shop , Launchbury (i think) is told to ‘to let it go’ as his off his feet – the ball squirts out English side, the ref let a kick, KB goes to sleep, the ball touches / doesn’t touch the chalk and bins it play on and bing-bam-boom the tide turns.

    I also need KRL’s input here- if Koribete didn’t put Hooper onside from the TK kick –
    than every box kick in the world now means all forwards are perpetually offside – whats the reading here mate?? How didn’t Koribete put Hooper onside ?

    We weren’t a 24 point lesser team, the 3 Lions weren’t a 24 point better team, but a combination of a bounce here and a call there and ‘Robert is your fathers brother’

    That all aside its still like watching ‘groundhog Day’ when Cheika coaches v Jones – we have learnt nada, zip, zilch & nothing. The selections are wrong – everyone can see it – but the coaches ‘hope’ this will be the time (0-5 now). Cheik – hope exists in two areas – beauty products and religion – not on the Rugby Field.

    • Brisneyland Local

      Fair write up there Hoss. In the military we wlways used to say the H
      “Hope” Is not mission statement. SO love your version of it.
      Cheika doesnt have it! Really dissapointed with today!

      • onlinesideline

        Speaking of Hope BL, question for ya. If we had Coleman, Rodda, Tui and Dempsey today and we muscled up in the areas we fell short in would you hold same opinion of MC. OK its a hypothetical, but are we being too harsh ?
        Im split.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Thats an easy one. I think Cheika is not the coach we need. He cant adjust his game plan or his selections to suit. But my real beef with Cheika is that he is a fucking disgrace for a national coach with the behaviour he demonstrates. It is appalling. I hope the IRB suspend him. Then finally the ARU or what ever the fuck they are called now might finally do something about his childish, impetulant, arrogant and churlish outburts.
          Does that answer your question? ;-)

        • onlinesideline

          yeah I agree, we are looking like twats, because it carries over to the team and the nation as a whole. Its just not very cool looking at all. Furthermore its impossible for a guy to act like this and at the same time be totally clearheaded in his coaching / training / selecting during the week, so it makes you wonder.

          I was just thinking what MC has actually done selection wise since taking over and counting how many players out of the 26 he has blooded since 2015 are actually permanent players in the team because off top of my head, these are the players in the team that were there before he took over.

          Kepu, Moore, TPN, Sio, Simmons, Hooper, Pocock, Genia, Foley, Beale, TK, Izzy.

          Thats 12 players I can think of who were there before he came in. So with all the blooding he has been doing we have discovered someting like another 6-8 pearlers. Sefa, Koribete, DHP, Coleman, Rodda, Tui, Ulysees, Tongan Thor (we will see).

          I dont know, do outstanding players select themselves anyhow ? What makes an outstanding coach ?.. Im starting to forget.

        • Brisneyland Local

          You nailed it!

        • Bakkies

          The fish rots from the head as Cheika’s employers behave the same way. Then you have the captain walking away from the referee when he is calling him and then reacting the way he did.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yep. And what pissed me off is that Will Genia did it too. Touching the ref and arguing with him. The bad behaviour that he used to deplore, is the bad behaviour he is now exhibiting. He has been infected by the Cheika disease!

        • Hoss

          You mean the guy who couldn’t hear the ref calling him with the sound of 80,000 baying for blood – that guy ? The same guy whose team received no traditional ‘warning’ from the ref for infringements, as opposed to the other team, who did get warned and infringed anyway with no consequence ?

        • Bakkies

          You don’t need a warning. To think you do is just ignorance oh wait.

          The Wallabies conceded at least 3 separate penalty advantages in that passage of play and 2 further penalties up the pitch.

          The referee was calling Hooper and he walked away with his back turned and then reacted like a bold child when he was given a yellow card.

        • Hoss

          9 and 10 only play as well as their forwards allow mate. But i thought we (our piggies) had parity all night and Sanchez and Nard were terrible, just dreadful. A lot made of Poms kicking to Foley hiding in the wings – but it lead to SFA. Three forward passes from 9 & 10, a lot of dropped ball and mid-field bombs that were aimless. The hardest part to take of this loss, as a fan is 1 – Its to England and 2 – that we were majority share holders in our downfall, the official had a share, but we screwed our own pooch

        • Who?

          In terms of the forward passes, they’ve been there all year, we just haven’t paid any price until this week. We’re regularly overrunning the ball carrier.
          Foley was too flat. He was regularly giving the ball to forward pods who were receiving the ball at the same moment the defensive line hit them. That hurt our piggies.
          Genia’s suffering from a lack of adaptation to the tackling focus of the NH teams. The law changes have significantly reduced the rewards available for defending teams when they put a player on the ground, so they are attempting to gang tackle and hold the player off the deck, to maul them. Wales and England aren’t as good at it as Ireland, yet, but it’s been very consistent. And our ball carriers are regularly going into contact far too upright. So they’re getting stopped, and the breakdown is consistently falling to our side of the tackle line. Which sees Genia consistently delivering the ball (still pretty quickly) whilst leaping backwards from the breakdown. He did well against Wales, less well in the much more difficult conditions this week.
          But generally, I agree. We had a major stake in our own downfall (we decided the result, the ref decided the margin, given the YC’s and inconsistency in application of laws/game management).

        • onlinesideline

          why do our forwards constantly over run the pass ? …. instead of gaining advantage we just get smashed – I just dont get it – mystified.

        • Who?

          It’s not just the forwards, either…

        • Who?

          I don’t know that changing any of the personnel would’ve solved any of the tactical issues that were the root of the problems that cost us the game… We haven’t made enough adaptation to the change in laws from SH to NH (the stupid, abhorrent law changes WR implemented 4 months ago in Europe).

        • Bakkies

          What about the stupid abhorrent law changes that caught the Lions out in June? The new kick the ball out change at half time caught the Lions out in a tour match as the opposition took a quick throw after time was up and came close to scoring a try from it.

        • Who?

          I have less of an issue with that change. The timing of the change sucked for the Lions, no question. But the concept that foul play can be effectively unpunished because taking the lineout (i.e. gaining territorial advantage due off the back of the receipt of a penalty for foul play) would finish the game.
          My issue with the law changes isn’t that they’ve been in play for four months in Europe, it’s that they remove the contest from the tackle area. I don’t see why it was difficult for referees to tell the difference between a tackler and a tackle assist. Or players, for that matter (it’s easier to remember whether or not you just stood up than figure out if you stopped ‘enough’ in the Hooper no-try decision, an existing law and one I’ve no problem with (though I disagree with the interpretation this time, as it’s inconsistent with its implementation throughout the rest of the game). I don’t see any reason why a defensive team should lose the advantage of determining when an offside line should be created at a tackle. These are changes that go to reducing the contest for possession in our game.
          So whilst, I’m calling them stupid and abhorrent, that doesn’t mean I’m exonerating our coaches from failing to adapt. Both are major issues for mine. We could’ve played much more intelligently inside the new laws. That wouldn’t change my belief that they are a major retrograde step, but it might’ve improved our outcome.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Mate I’m stuck in Washington DC and haven’t seen the game so can’t comment. I do know that if a players is offside and makes no attempt to slow down and get onside they can be penalised even if they are eventually onside. The reason is that by staying offside they can adversely influence the defence. I’ll watch the game and get back to you

      • Hoss

        Cheers mate – KP helps out above. I only played for 20 odd years and been a fan for 40-odd and never knew the rule…………clever.

        • Adrian

          Ditto
          I played 7 and 12 (though under the pre 72 Australian numbers)) and understood that you were offside when the whistle went, otherwise you weren’t.

          Hooper and the others did a fantastic defensive job, hovering as you have to, just on the verge of offside

          With the kick chase, on 99% of occasions, guys initially in front (like Hooper) are counted as legal again once overtaken, …. though I (now) believe the law says otherwise

        • Hoss

          Where i was muddled – no problems with Hoops being offside at TK’s kick, BUT, I thought once Koribete had kicked it Hooper was automatically onside ?? Obviously not.

          That said Koribete should have just dived on the pill and slid in for a try.

        • Greg

          My reffing days area long while ago…. I thought it was harsh.

          He was offside. That fact that he was offside had little if any effect on his final involvement. he slowed down, When Koribete ran past him he started running hard again.

          Could have easily gone the other way.

          BUT…. the issue is that we have lost 5 in a row. After most (all?) of those games I have said…. that was close.. but thats not good enough for 5!!

          Time to change.

        • Who?

          Interesting that Eddie referenced the 70/71 Ashes series and Lawry’s axing as being the ‘other’ 5-0 result… Think he’s pushing to see Cheik gone? Or just enjoying the needling?

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Hahaha most players don’t. Played for about 30 odd years and couldn’t believe how many rules I didn’t know when I started refereeing

      • Hoss

        PS – punch Trump in the face for me while your there.

    • kp

      “How didn’t Koribete put Hooper onside” – Hooper had to stop moving forward immediately the ball was kicked, which he didn’t. He put his hands in the air and kept running forward on a slight angle until Koribete ran in front of him at which point he sped up again. Hooper, however, cannot be put onside as he had already fouled by running forward when offside.

      • Hoss

        Cheer KP. i had thought he would have been put onside by Koribete – that explains why he wasn’t !!. Whilst technically a correct decision i would like the same technical analysis applied to every box kick in a game ………….

        • Brumby Runner

          Exactly, and even had he stopped, then Foley would have been guilty of the same offside offence.

        • Cam

          I guess when box kicking, forwards are stationary blockers with both feet planted on the ground when the half kicks. Hoops was still running at about half speed and only for a split second.
          Give that same call to 5 different refs and TMO’s though and I reckon you’d get about 50/50.

        • adastra32

          Every game has infringements that are either missed or ignored. Point being that this incident led to a try and so will be examined. .

      • onlinesideline

        it would have been really interesting if Hooper did slow right down and yet still came through to score but the weird thing in rugby is that the ref cant really get out the measuring tape in these instances. And yet it could have been the game changer, hypotheically.

      • John Tynan

        It takes more than a couple of steps to go from flat out to whoa boys. He pulled out, slowing down for two or three steps, in which time Koroibete runs him on.

      • Upfromdown

        Check out the Huw Jones try v All Blacks. Lauded for the great try it was, but offside under the Hooper interpretation. Should it have stood?

        • kp

          Well spotted – definitely off side from the kick. Had he been wearing a yellow jersey might have also been given a yellow card and a paddling.

    • idiot savant

      A small point Hoss. IBF has always been one of the great putters. It was his swing that he lost (and you couldn’t watch), particularly off the tee. He couldn’t find a fairway, but his putting has always been of the highest quality.

      Cheika will have to think about a new game pan for England if this keeps up. It was rope a dope round 5. Al the Poms do is kick for territory, rush defence, wait for errors, and use their forward power. Even if the rub of the green had gone our way and we had a full complement, we wouldn’t have won by much.

      And once again it shows how vital Genia is. If he has a poor game we look ordinary.

      • Hoss

        Cheers IS – putting, driving – its all the same to me, same horse, different jockey. As for Sanchez – and it does my head in – the gap between his ‘on’ and ‘off’ games is seismic – he was more Phipps than Phipps today – WTF ??

        • Funk

          Phipps didn’t want to be left out though…so he threw that last pass to Care for his try!

        • Andy

          Yep. In the 10 minutes he was on he threw a pass that led to a try and came up in defence and left a hole at the back which led to the 2nd try (his chase back was poor as well).

          He’s consistent at least….

      • adastra32

        In the wet, playing rugby in the right parts of the field is CRUCIAL. Hence, the kicking game. What part of Cheika and the team failed to register this?

    • onlinesideline

      Thing is Hoss, muggings usually hold an element of surprise. In this instance we should have known and prepared for the classic English wet weather game and really we are the mugs in this scenario. Our game plan, wet weather skills were totally off. How long had it been raining in London this week ?

    • Adrian

      Spot on Hoss, with all points

    • McWarren

      Hoss I know we disagree on Hooper, but how can you put him in the Tremendous category today?

      • Hoss

        Hi Macca, apologies for the delay, i appreciate the opportunity to put forward the case for the affirmative.

        Specific to the game and IMO only

        * We make meters through his aggressive D (the chase on Young that saw us get a lineout on attack as opposed to 30 odd metres further downfield. The tackle on Hughes that saw a dropped ball and mid field scrum in Pom territory)
        * The support lines he runs to get from breakdown to breakdown to secure quick ball to stimulate our attack (let down by a piss-poor Genia / Foley on Saturday – surely the forwards are allowed to drag them out the back of the toilet block Sat at Twickers for a ‘get square’ ?))
        * His general defence is first rate
        * His work rate off the ball is best in world rugby
        * His growing maturity / composure as a leader – signified by our improving results

        I believe the card was stiff, the team had no warning, their was no series of repeated infringements and all the dribble on here of him ‘ignoring’ the ref – there’s 80,000 in the crowd and bellowing – give me a break.

        Now the case for the ‘against’………………..

        • jamie

          Dunno about his leadership qualities. Certainly having ‘Nard as his kicker doesn’t help his choices regarding penalties.

        • Hoss

          I think Hooper cops a bum deal on his captaincy mate.

          I dont pretend he is the finished product, but he is at the start of his captaincy journey, is still only 20-something y.o is the leader of a young squad with many rookies – i mean compare that to ourselves at the same age and ability to lead men and walk a PC tight rope with frenzied media scrutiny – i reckon his a star on the rise and could finish as one of our best ever.

          Injury aside he will be our most capped player of all time (i think he is 70 odd tests now) and still has 6-7 years left in the tank.

          I think if you were to look at where he is at now, measured against Farr-Jones, Eales or Gregan at the same time of their career he is on the right path and a good investment.

        • McWarren

          Hoss I’d like too watch the game again before a definitive reposte. But for a start his leadership is not up too scratch. When he was off the field we were a far more composed team. I also don’t believe the card should have been given, it should have been the warning. Unless he is put through a gap or in support he doesn’t make the hard yards. He gets man handled when running close to the ruck. His support lines are the same as what Pocock and Gill run so for me not a point of difference. his attempt to halt his progress was inept and his grasp of the rule book is inadequate. Even his defence of his actions at the presser seemed churlish and dismissive of the ref, not a good move for future encounters. I don’t believe he attacks enough defensive ducks or instigate counter rucks, that may be coaches orders.

          Honestly, I wish he wasn’t captain, I love watching him play but I think the way we use him is wrong. I’d rather run him on for the last 30 minutes with a fresh Beale or Cooper for him to run off.

          That’s me done your honour. I’ve run out of steam.

    • adastra32

      Three Lions is Wendyball.

      Tactical naivety, crucial errors (stand up KB), and a weaker set of Finishers did for Aus.

      • Hoss

        My apologies learned friend – The Red Rose would be more apt.

    • Andy

      What a great post.

      I was jumping up and down about the Launchbury turnover too. Right in front of Fuckface O’keefe. Just let it go, no worries your highness.. Yet happy to yellow card us for foul play on our own line though… Didn’t see Hooper offside once in that whole passage.

      All in all agree with your salient points. Surely we can make a solid call on the goal kicker now? Foley hates pressure, Hodge seems to love it. Problem solved… 9 from 9 in the Japanese game says enough in my opinion. And I’ve never seen him drop one from in front. I’ve seen that from Foley at least 10 times now.

      • Hoss

        HI mate – yes, frustrating, cat-kicking and i am glad the tin-lids where out with their mum at the time i watched it, as they would have learnt a few new words that would be hard to explain to their child care facility.

        Probably most frustrating of all is we beat ourselves again. No disrespect to Ol Blighty and their followers, The Red Rose did as much as they had to do to win and win comprehensively – but its not as if we were played off the park we just were crap at the basics and to formatting our game plan to the conditions (or not having the skills to adapt to the conditions) and this with our forwards gaining parity – no mean task when Simmons and Hanigan are effectively useless. Our front row were awesome, Hooper and Macca terrific and gave us enough ball to win two games – yet Genia and Foley sat flatter in attack than i have ever seen, didnt use grubbers to make the Poms hold off or think twice, passed to flat footed forwards who couldnt make a meter and then reverted to the ‘Gary Owen’ the Rugby version of Catholicism (i really really hope this works…………….)

        Does my head in.

  • kp

    Is Hooper the right person to be captaining? In wet weather he turned down an easy shot at goal (easy at least for any kicker other than Foley) and for the second week in a row he is yellow carded (albeit the yellow card this game may have been harsh). The trouble is he often makes these low percentage calls as captain and sure, when it comes off happy days. But when it doesn’t come off (which is all too common) it is pretty average.

    With regards to deliberate knock downs, why wasn’t England’s second rower given 10 minutes for his deliberate knock down at the back of a ruck? I know the pommy commentators said there is a difference between a deliberate knock on and knock down but they are pommy commentators – are they right or were they again taken poetic licence? They both seem just as cynical.

    Also Foley should never again be allowed to kick – either in general play or for goal. How can the wallabies not understand this?

    Speaking of kicking, why the hell or we obsessed with midfield high balls when we are inside our 22? Why not just give the ball to our opposition and tell them ‘we are out of ideas, here, you have a go’.

    IMHO, I thought the Hooper no try was fair enough as he was offside; the ball was probably just out for the English try but benefit of the doubt for the attacking team; while Moore probably marginally obstructed for the Koribete no try, the same benefit of the doubt could have gone to the attacking side or at worst, a penalty to Australia for the English being offside.

    Finally, Australia gifting 3 tries to England in the last 10 minutes is unforgivable. We may have been about to lose but play with pride. England deserved the win in the end because we just aren’t good enough right now.

    • Haz

      I think that the difference is that Beales deliberately killed a promising attack whereas Itoje’s was more of just a dull penalty to give away

      • Greg

        The white knock down was only a scrum wasn’t it?

        I don’t like the interpretation but I thought at the time…. taht’s a penalty or yellow.

        • Who?

          No, it was a penalty, and O’Keeffe also admitted that not only was it a deliberate knock down, Itoje was also offside. Beale’s infringement was a singular infringement (after the Poms had been given a penalty for not releasing where neither of their players were supporting their own weight, and the penalty was taken in front of the mark) in an attacking situation, Itoje’s infraction was a double infraction in a cynical manner in an unthreatening location.

        • Jerry

          Except it wasn’t a double infraction cause it went back about 1m. It was a single infraction.

        • Who?

          The ruling from the ref wasn’t offside, it was a deliberate knock down. I’ve seen George Smith carded for exactly that infraction – knocking the ball back towards his own tryline from the scrumhalf’s hands at the back of a breakdown. The ruling has always been deliberate knock down. So, take that ruling (which was O’Keeffe’s), add to it that Itoje was offside (as O’Keeffe also said)…
          I’d rather see consistency in both staying than both going, but either way…

        • Jerry

          I think he said he wasn’t bound. If he ruled deliberate knock on that’s a mistake cause it wasn’t one.

          Regardless the fundamental difference in the Beale & Itoje offences is that one was in a potential try scoring situation and one wasn’t. Refs are always more likely to card the former.

  • Jonno

    We can not use player unavailability as an excuse. All players need to adopt the same mindset and play their roles. WBs had a bad night and the poms did what they do well, put us under pressure and took their chances and should be commended as such. We’ve seen it before and its how we beat the ABs not so long ago. We’ve yet to beat the Poms at their own game, but can. Crying foul regardless of the circumstances diminishes our cause and more than any of the technical challenges to skills development, game management and player selection, Cheika and the playing group need to learn this fast. The winners are those that pick themselves up dust themselves off and get stuck back in. Not too concerned about the yellows for Hooper and Beale its that type of pushing the envelope that has also turned games in the past. We were beaten because we did not adapt well at other moments in the game when under pressure. In the last ABs game we forced the tempo and pressure , it’s what they’ve been doing to us for years. Last night when it mattered the Poms won those moments, fair and simple. Tries under those circumstances are not lucky they are deserved because of building pressure. Jones knows this, at this level, much of it is mental. The skills can be improved but the gap between the top 5 is not that far apart. Sometimes everything clicks, but it’s when things don’t that really matters. If we lose our composure that will remain our Achilles. As much as this loss hurts, WBs need to fix this going forward but it starts with Cheika. We’ve shown the skills are there and better decision making at times throughout the year. the biggest disappointment is that we were off last night and we allowed them to run away with it at the end. A good game between 2-3, they’ve got the goods on us for now but that should only be more fire in the belly for the next encounter.

  • Hoss

    In other news Hanigan & Coleman returning home due to injury.

    Wonder how Tui has recovered ? I would hate to think we have Simmons is the best we have left ?

    • onlinesideline

      Coleman missing both Twickers matches in 2 years. Highs and lows of playing international rugby, happens to so many players at this level. No-one seems to escape the bad injury run. And a bloody thumb of all things.

      Scots will be smelling blood on home turf big time.

      • Hoss

        Yep – last game of a long season, tired body, weary minds turning to European holidays, fuming coach, poor display by 9 & 10 that may force changes and a Scottish team that beat us last outing and nearly rolled the AB’s – not much too like.

        • onlinesideline

          its going to take decades before they let RWC15 go.

        • Hoss

          There still dirty over William Wallace – no one carries a grudge like the Scots…….

        • Who?

          Ireland… I have family who lived on an island off the west coast. There were two houses on the island. The families in those houses didn’t speak for over 300 years…
          I don’t think Scotland need RWC15 to motivate them against us – I think they’ll realize they’re a red hot chance and just go for it. They won out here, why can’t they win at home? Even without those ‘advantages’..? They should feel confident.

      • idiot savant

        Yes the Scots were very good against the ABs. And I think we have a lot of tired players carrying injury niggles. Will take some mental strength and if its wet it will be interesting.

        • onlinesideline

          specially if its starts pissing down with 10 mins to go

        • idiot savant

          It will be interesting to see if Cheika changes the side or game plan.

        • Old_Laurentian

          If it’s wet? In Scotland In November? Did anyone talk to CheikS?

    • onlinesideline

      have you ever seen a forward rush back from a torn hammy and have a blinder ?
      nah, me either.

  • southern macro

    Strikes me that Hunt should start at 12 and Kerevi should finish there.

    Koroibete the buy of the year from NRL.

    Desperately need a new no. 10. Can’t imagine Cooper is worse than Foley these days

  • Adrian

    Where to start?

    It was neither an English conspiracy driven along by cheating, nor another example of how hopeless Cheika is.

    I’d be tempted to say a bit of both, but really it was an unfortunate sequence of TMO and ref decisions all going the one way. Very pedantic I’d say, but most were correct…. maybe. Cheika could have done better with tactics and selection, but it was the players that lost composure or made errors. I’d say Genia, Hooper and Beale let emotion get in their way, … which unfortunately spews over onto others. These 3 guys also made skill errors,….but also did very good things.

    Things to learn from, not to be sacked for.

    Every player seemed to make mistakes, as well as do good things. Kepu and McMahon looked best to me, and I couldn’t really tell what Enver did or didn’t do. He looked out of his depth, as did Simmons. I couldn’t believe it when they put Simmons weight up on the screen as 18 stone something.

    Our bench front row looked weak, …but Robertson wasn’t the worst of them

    For next Test, please start Tui and Timani.

    I’m not yet sure about the backs, as Hunt didn’t do much when he was on, but wasn’t on for long. Kerevi should have stayed on

    • idiot savant

      Some good points Adrian. It looked like Cheika trained for a dry track as his players tried to play ball in hand all game including the bench. Hunt for eg dropped several balls charging onto a greasy pill. When we did it kick it wasn’t particularly effective and it was clear to see how second nature kick and chase is to the Poms and how foreign it is to us. And it was a day for kick and chase.

      You correctly point out the composure errors of our key players – Genia, Foley, Beale, and Hooper. All the more troubling when you realise that these players are vastly more experienced than their English counterparts. These are the leaders of our RWC campaign.

      The composure errors also extends to the head coach. He didnt prepare the side to play wet weather football and got angry to deflect attention from that. It will be interesting to see if he changes strategy for Scotland.

      If he is true to form he will name an unchanged side (with McCalman replacing the injured Hanigan) and Tui coming on to the bench.

      • Old_Laurentian

        Well said IS. What’s niggling me behind all this is that it’s now clear who the best Australian coach in the world is (by a country mile – and Link may be second), so why isn’t he cosching our national team? I am looking at you, ARU.

  • lu99ke

    Poor game by Genia.. Manu passes off the mark putting pressure on our runners.

    Poor game by Beale … Daly try enough to pull him.. not even trying to cover that ball.

    We dropped too much ball.

    However, and this is a BIG moment, Moore obstruction should never have been an issue.. Robshaw never came CLoSE to getting inside to make the tackle that he was ruled to have been obstructed for… Either we ground it an it’s a try or a penalty try as he was clearly offside and gets involved in play where if he didn’t we walk over untouched. And the worst thing? When the ref referred it to TMo, he asked for 2 things… 1 – grounding and 2 – was 6 offside….. So they checked grounding and then figured it was try somehow started looking at obstruction … Completely ignoring the request for offside.. and the ref forgot all about it!

    If you have replay available watch the lead up to that try again…

  • idiot savant

    Moi? Tongue in cheek!

    • Old_Laurentian

      I normally find myself in London for the spring tours but I would be embarrassed to be sitting in the Water Poet with my Wallabies gear on at this time, given Cheika’s childish tantrums. Not my choice.

  • jamie

    Come out now Foley lovers. Please :-)

  • Mitch T Gray

    We need a real 10. However, whom might that be? Possibly Hodge? Less than 24 months to get it right. Also, now is the time to change the coach if we are going to bother before RWC 2019. The ABs game was an anomaly. Please don’t pick Simmons if he is in the starting 15 we are guaranteed a loss… Rant over…

    • bruce bendall

      A 15 too. His pausing while Daly scored. Missed tackle on May plus his binning were enough to cost the game on his own.

  • Bernie Chan

    Sure we got none of the ‘marginal’ calls (not enough evidence to overturn the on-field “try” ruling, Beale’s yellow was warranted…he was not trying to catch the ball) ..but the game changing moment was when Beale assumed the ball was going into touch and jogged…he was then over-run by the winger Daly (?) and ENG scored. Turning down kickable goals proved counterproductive…if you kick for touch instead of taking a simple 3 points, you MUST win the lineout AND score a try. Foley’s kicking…as his punts tend to be low trajectory, I assume Larkham tried to prevent charge downs by directing Foley to hoist “up-and-unders”…can’t see any other reason for so many mid-field ‘bombs’…? Tactically inept…What odds would the bookies have given if you took a punt that we’d field Simmons-Enever as a Test locking combo this season…or Hanigan would start so many Tests?

  • Brisneyland Local

    Adrian for once I disagree with you. His behaviour now is so abhorent, he should not be allowed back.

  • adastra32

    Well that’s the most balanced assessment of the game I have read so far. Well done Steve Lenthall.

  • Jack

    So, the ball was in, or..???

    • bruce bendall

      Ref, tj, and tmo didn’t see it go out.

  • MungBean

    “after he deliberately knocked the ball down attempting an intercept “

    Says it all doesn’t it? The fact is that he didn’t deliberately knock the ball down. He was either attempting an intercept or he wasn’t. Hooper wasn’t warned before being sent; yet Robshaw & Launchbury were given multiple final warnings. Moore didn’t obstruct, the TMO went searching for a reason not to award that try. They checked for a grounding, that didn’t work, then they went for the forward pass, that didn’t work, then they pinged Moore for obstructing Robshaw even though Robshaw was between Moore & the try scorer.
    How Coles stayed on the park is beyond me. Australian props would’ve been sent for that performance.
    If Daley’s try was fair then so was Hooper’s. Hooper was in front of Kerevi but was put back onside by Kuridrani. The exact same thing happened in Daley’s try.
    Time after time, decision after decision, Australia was on the wrong end.

    Im not a fan of Cheika but I’m sorry, the dude is right. Australia may kit have been robbed of victory but they were utterly robbed of a fair chance.

  • Nutta

    Law 6.4.A. The Ref is the sole judge of fact, law and score.

    There is plenty I could rant about. But we didn’t make the most of our chances either. So that’s that.

    Congratulations England. You won. We lost.

  • subfreq

    We are a proper fly half away from being regulars at the top table.

    The team can no longer count on give me shots at goal let alone the really clutch ones out wide that turn a game when it counts. This is effecting on field game management and prevents us from strangling teams when we could be ticking up the scoreboard in the tight ones. Would like to see Hodge kick against Scotland.

    Game management is the second point here too. I can’t remember the last game when our fly half dictated the game.

    Hodge looks like he might grab the chance during Super Rugby but if he doesn’t Beale should be considered. Foley has had a good run but he’s just not taking it on when the team is rapidly developing around him.

  • Duncher

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. There’s no team in the world I would rather beat than the All Blacks… But I HATE losing to the Poms… It just sucks!

  • mark conley

    Just watched it again. I’ve read where a few have said that the bench won it for England. I would restrict that to the bench English scrum-half, as Brian Smith pointed out. I was disappointed and surprised with Beale’s performance at 15.

  • Upfromdown

    The inconsistency is terrible. We are a bull at a gate. We push passes, try to force the play in horrible conditions, don’t give penalty kicks to our best kicker (if Hodge is on the pitch he needs to kick), are lazy in D (see Beale not chasing the ball which Daly scores from), switch off in restarts. All the effort parts of the game just tend to be forgotten at times. If we improved on these things by 10% the skilled parts of our game would flow naturally. It is really poor to make the same mistakes again and again.

  • Old_Laurentian

    Yes

Wallabies
@steve_l15

Canberra born and bred Rugby fan brought up on Canberra Kookaburra and ACT Brumbies Rugby.

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