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Friday’s Rugby News

Friday’s Rugby News

Friday’s Rugby News has more transfers, a tough opening for our ladies at the RWC, some very worried Japanese Rugby officials, and Kerevi keen for combinations.


Faulkner heads home

Photo credit: Delphy

Photo credit: Delphy

With the absolute basket case that Super Rugby is, it’s a miracle that in the last couple of days there’s been so many signings. The Melbourne Rebels have been particularly busy on the signing front. Following them getting Amanaki Mafi to re-sign yesterday, the men from Victoria have announced another big signingTetera Faulkner from the Western Force.

Despite being Kiwi-born, Faulkner moved to Melbourne when he was 13. Growing up and plying his rugby there, his success saw him picked up by the WA club as as injury cover in 2011. Seven years of service later, he’s making the move back.

This was a find that Rebels CEO Baden Stephenson was particularly chuffed about when he revealed it on Melbourne radio station RSN.

“Tetera is a quality player and person who will bring experience, consistency and strong values to the Rebels,” Stephenson said.

“It is great to bring a Melbourne player home to represent the Rebels in front of so many family, friends and teammates that he grew up with.”

The Force have taken Faulkner to plenty of places, including into the current Wallabies Bledisloe Cup squad. But for him, the chance to move back home to Melbourne was something he didn’t want to miss.

“I’m looking forward to the opportunity to continue my rugby career back in Melbourne, a city that I hold dear to me,” Faulkner said.

“After getting my first big break with the Schoolboys in Melbourne, it feels like I’ve come a full circle so I’m excited to return home and contribute to the exciting future of the Melbourne Rebels and Victorian rugby.”

In other transfer news, the Brumbies have managed to re-sign James Dargaville for another season. The utility back is keen to make more of an impact in the nation’s capital, and will be looking for a big NRC season with the Canberra Vikings as a springboard to greater success.

The entire Super Rugby saga has weighed heavily on the mind of Dargaville’s decision, but he admitted that he had “unfinished business” in Canberra.

“It’s impossible to say that [the Super Rugby saga] doesn’t affect you day to day. But I just feel for those boys over in Perth and Melbourne where their lives are still in limbo,” he told the Canberra Times. 

“I’m only 25, so I wasn’t in a rush to run off overseas yet. My main aim was to stay in Australia and at the Brumbies, so to get another year here is really good.

“We’ve got some pretty good centres at the Brumbies so it’s more of a weekly proposition of where do I fit into the team.

“There’s plenty of talent there, so it’s about getting a starting role and playing good rugby every time you get an opportunity.

“For the time being I am happy to play that [versatile] role, that’s just the balance the team needs with the other players we’ve got in the back line. You’ve just got to add what you can.”

Dargaville adds to what will be a solid Brumbies outfit next year. In addition to seeing the return of David Pocock, the Brums also look set to welcome Waratahs scrumhalf Matt Lucas and Leicester Tigers back-rower Lachlan McCaffrey, who are both rumoured to be close to finalising deals with the Canberra franchise.

The Worrying Wolfpack

Sunwolves - phone
The Western Force and the Melbourne Rebels have been putting up a hell of a fight in regards to staying in Super Rugby for the 2018 season. The Force are currently still in arbitration with the ARU, and many eyes are focused on that decision. And that is not just here in Australia.

If the ARU win, it is highly probable that they will assemble the board to call a vote on whether to cut the Western Force from the competition, with the Rebels escaping the cut. However, if the result does indeed fall that way, the ARU will have a large mountain to climb. The Force’s efforts have seen the club make many powerful friends in the last few months, including Andrew ‘Twiggy’ Forrest, who has made it very clear he will make sure the WA club stays.

However, if the Force win the arbitration, it will effectively mean that they cannot be culled before the end of the broadcast deal in 2020. Considering how many are wondering what the structure of the competition will look like at the end of that time (especially in light of talk of South Africa leaving the competition), this decision will throw a huge spanner in the works.

That will leave 16 teams, meaning the ARU will have to go to SANZAAR and say they cannot fulfil their obligation to cut a team for the competition. And, according to Wayne Smith at The Australian, that has the Sunwolves very worried.

The Sunwolves have already been told by SANZAAR to lift their game off the back of two very poor seasons in Super Rugby. Easily being the worst performing team over the last two years, Smith has apparently been chatting with folks in Tokyo, and they are worried about what may happen should the ARU be unable to cut a team.

“If they can’t get rid of a fifth Australian team, do SANZAAR stick with a 15-team competition?” a Sunwolves source told The Australian yesterday.

“If they do, then they will have to make a decision on who that other team is.”

The Japanese are certainly not hiding their concern, as they have made it clear that Sunwolves are an important cog in getting rugby a permanent foothold on the country ahead of the 2019 World Cup. Their plans  were hindered by the re-signing of Japanese international Amanaki Mafi to the Rebels until 2019.

“We were looking to him to be part of the Sunwolves and ultimately of the (Japanese) World Cup campaign. But if he’s not going to be with the Sunwolves…

“The Sunwolves are an important preparation for the World Cup and if he is not part of that and there are other players who are part of that, then that’s a consideration the coaches will need to make.”

Some may take this with a grain of salt. But it is a serious question: if the ARU can’t cut a team, who else (aside from the Sunwolves) would be in line to take the cut?

Wallaroos fall to Ireland

France v Australia - IRB Womens Rugby World Cup 3rd Place Play-Off

It was a heartbreaking first match for our ladies at the RWC in Ireland, with the Wallaroos falling 19-17 to the hosts in Dublin yesterday morning.

The Wallaroos led for most of the match, and were ahead 10-7 with twenty minutes on the clock. However, the Six Nations runners-up stepped up a gear and dominated the territory to score two quick tries. The Wallaroos struck back through a try in the 73rd minute to Ashleigh Hewson. In the end, it was Irish flyhalf Nora Stapleton‘s boot that proved the difference in what was a tense match.

Despite the loss, coach Paul Verrell was really impressed with the improvement shown in his side, that weren’t able to grab a win on their Four Nations tour of New Zealand two months ago. He was particularly impressed with the defensive effort against the higher ranked Irish side.

“The team matched it with the Irish for the majority of the match and matched them in physically and put in a solid defensive display,” Verrell said to the West Australian.

“The Irish controlled possession for a large portion of the second half and kept the ball inside our own half and that prevented us from creating any real opportunities.”

The Roos will have to go back to the drawing board and will have their work cut out against their next opponents France, who currently lead their pool after smashing the Japanese 72-14. Their match against Les Bleus will be on August 14.

In other notable results, New Zealand were able to brush aside Wales, 44-12, while current champions England easily accounted for Spain, 56-5. However, the biggest victory saw Canada put the boot into Hong Kong, beating 98-0.

Keen Kerevi

Samu Kerevi leads the REds out in their one-off retro jersey

The site of Samu Kerevi heading back onto the field is certainly one that many fans will be looking forward to. He was one of the new shining lights of the Wallabies last year, and the Red’s back was quick to admit that he was keen to combine with the “X-Factor” that the Wallabies missed in June – a certain Kurtley Beale. 

Kerevi was struck down by injury earlier this year after what had been an encouraging season personally for the Reds, which ruled him out of playing in June. He admitted that pairing himself with Beale might prove to give the Wallabies a much-needed boost to be competitive against the All Blacks.

“Kurtley is an exceptional player with an exceptional rugby brain,” Kerevi told Rugby.com.au. 

“We have been doing a lot of opposed stuff with the boys and trying different combinations in the centres.

“For me, when I do train with Kurtley or train against him just seeing how he plays excites me.

“I know he can bring that X factor to the backline and then we have guys like Israel Folau out back, Tevita Kuridrani and Henry Speight out wide that can finish off amazing tries.”

The squad has been pretty quiet on the media front, training up at Cessnock ahead of the first test next Saturday. Fitness has been a key aspect to their preparations, and Kerevi said that the squad was happy to be past that aspect of their preparations so they could focus on trying to conquer the All Blacks.

Kerevi himself has been easing himself back into full contact this week, and despite having an injury-plagued couple of years, he thinks that he will be fit and firing come August 19.

“I took the opportunities that I got last year and brought it to this year,” he said.

“I want to make sure I take every opportunity this year.

“This group can change history and be part of it, that’s what excites me.”

  • ForceFan

    Unfortunately Tets was only offered a 1-year deal by the WF and the Rebels were prepared to offer him 2 years.
    Tet Faulkner’s deal with the Rebels is on the proviso that the Rebels have SR life in 2018.
    Tets and Ash have another baby on the way so some level of income security was off prime concern.
    Tets will be greatly missed at the Force.
    A great scrummager – but a bit quiet around the park.
    I’m sure that all Force supporters wish Tests and family well.

    • Braveheart81

      With the quality of props the Force have, it made sense for someone to go elsewhere. Cowan, Ainsley and Vui are all quality. The Rebels certainly could use a prop, particularly after Smith went back to NZ.

      • ForceFan

        All sounds good BH but a balance btwn LH & TH props is what’s required and the Force, and all sides, needs more than 2 of each. In recent times our props have almost written a new book on obscure injuries and long recovery times.
        With this recent history a suggest 3 of each is not a luxury.
        We have some good, local prospects but currently not game ready against strong, experienced opposition scrimmagers.

        • Braveheart81

          Of course you need a number of props. The Force would love to keep all of them but realistically players knocking on the door for Wallaby selection aren’t going to hang around to be bench players when there are better opportunities available.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Yeah but you have to grow them locally to be sustainable. Each franchise should have 1 or 2 locals being trialled and either stepping up or stepping out

  • mikado

    Good effort by the Wallaroos, just a couple of conversions short of the win. France looked good against Japan though, and I suspect they’ll be a little too good for Australia.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      The girls have played some good rugby this year. I hope they do well

      • mikado

        I hope Australia can pull off the win against France.

        The battle between NZ, CAN and ENG is going to be great. Great also if someone else can upset the big three, but I think it’ll be down to one of those three.

    • Bakkies

      France have a very strong tight five.

      • mikado

        Good back row too, to judge from the highlights of the Japan game. However the French backs didn’t impress much during the Six Nations.

    • McWarren

      Are the games on fox sport?

      • Attizar

        The games are on fox. I watched 2 replays yesterday. Aus vs Ire and NZ vs Wal . The lack of kicking in general play makes for some great games.

      • mikado

        Don’t know about Fox, but I think World Rugby are streaming them via either the website or their facepalm account.

  • StewedP

    Putting aside dropping of the Sunwolves, the ARU are screwed – if they drop a SuperRugby team they are facing a significant legal cost, if the persist with 5 teams they will be insolvent within 2 years.

    • Andrew Luscombe

      If they drop a team they are facing a long term drop in revenue beyong 2020, and confirmation to the Australian public that they plan for rugby to be a regional sport at best. In a national media market there is no such thing as a regional sport.

      If they can pursuade NZ to accept equalisation measures and run the league on a professional basis, with national coverage they have a hope.

    • TheNutorious

      They could live within their means and build a financial model based on growth.

  • Missing Link

    Sometimes when I see shit similar to what’s written below, I hate what our country has become. Can we just rally behind the Wallabies and hope they smash the shit out of NZ like old times.

    Remember when we were all Aussies? Not separated and segregated into minority groups or political ideology groups but I guess that’s how today’s politicians like it.

    Even the ARU joined the party this year, completely destroyed their fan base by introducing class warfare into the environment. For shame ARU!

    • Adrian

      Agree 100%

      I “moved” to GAGR from another blog to avoid ignorance and hate, whether directly stated or implied.

      I implore people in GAGR to be respectful, and support the Wallabies now

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Agree all apart from smashing us. Although I do hope it’s a good hard contest. I won’t even mind losing a game

      • Missing Link

        A good contest will do wonders for Rugby, the last thing we need is another shellacking.

    • Alister Smith

      I agree wholeheartedly Missing Link it did get very nasty below and I didnt enjoy reading it. However, I would say that there has always been a fairly “open and honest” appraisal of individual players shortcomings on and off the field on this website. Certainly Kurtley cops plenty but no more I would have thought than Cooper, Hooper, James O’Connor, Dean Mumm etc and he, like some of this group has committed some off field errors in the past that I think warranted criticism at the time. However, I think Kurtley, perhaps more than any of his illustrious amigo mates has shown personal development and growing maturity – on and off the field as far I am aware.

  • TheNutorious

    Australian rugby doesn’t want to cut a team. ARU, that is the verdict of the grassroots you represent.
    Tell SANZAR. The implications on the Sunwolves aren’t your concern.

    F*** SANZAR, their interests have been to the detriment of Australian rugby. Lets do what is best for us and hopefully this can start real conversations about the future of a viable competition for our sides.

  • Bay35Pablo

    They can run 16 teams. It is just working out the format and finals system to run the games TV needs. E.g. everyone plays everyone once, home and away swapping between 2018 and 2019, then look at teams in conferences (with Japan in Oz) and same as this year (3 top teams, 3 wildcards). probably better format than current!
    The issue is the funding. ARU has to cover 5 teams with same money which is the entire bloody reason they are trying to cut a team. Not because they woke up one morning and suddenly took a dislike to the number 5. It then becomes an issue of how we cover that shortfall for 2 years until we get to the next TV deal, after which all bets are off as usual. At that stage the SAF teams will probably bugger off to Europe, as they have threatened to do every TV deal, but now actually are. TRC will probably survive especially with reorganised global calendar, but we then have to run a Pacific Super Rugby comp with NZ, and probably japan and whatever PI teams we can fund (possibly with WR help). The Fiji NRC team may well get promoted in 2 years, but that is easier than creating it from scratch (look at Moondogs).
    They are NOT going to cut the Moondogs whatever anyone says. The Japanese TV money is too valuable. The entire bloody point of expanding to include them was to expand TV markets and get extra TV audiences and money to increase the TV revenue, and try to compete with European offers for players or at least survive longer.
    Moondogs being crap doesn’t help ratings or comp, but that never got any SAF teams cut. They got more! They’ll see out their current 5 year deal. If they cannot cut the Force what makes you think they can suddenly cut Moondogs? Just try arbitration again, but this time with the word “international” at the beginning. Everyone gets to fly to HK or Singapore for this one.
    If Twiggy really is all suddenly hot and bothered, perhaps he can volunteer to cover any shortfall for the Force for 2 years (along with the Seas of Blue), to see them and the ARU through? No? Sound of crickets you say?
    One of the worst things about this whole fiasco is rugby writers (not on this site) shooting their mouth off with gossip and rumours, and not even thinking through the garbage they were either repeating or had just thought up themselves. While the ARU haven’t helped themselves is apparently taking a vow of silence, and nature abhors a vacuum such that rumours abound without official news (which gets poo pooed anyway), the Oz rugby media have been as much part of what is wrong with Oz rugby as anything.

    • Martin Bradbury

      If Twiggy really is all suddenly hot and bothered, perhaps he can volunteer to cover any shortfall for the Force for 2 years (along with the Seas of Blue), to see them and the ARU through?

      Watch his interview following the ARU’s announcement to cut a team. He did exactly this.
      The response from the ARU…. Sound of crickets you say…?

      Similar to when the WA Government was trying to contact the ARU for the past few weeks…. once again the wall of silence from the ARU.

      A lot has been happening behind the scenes to try and get the ARU to see logic on this, and to work out an outcome that we can all move forward with. If you can’t keep up, leave it out. Certainly don’t start to tear chunks out of the fans and figureheads who have all offered to dip into their own pockets to dig the ARU out of the financial hole they dug for themselves, and for the code in this country.

  • Bernie Chan

    If we have a playmaker who can give Kerevi some quality ball then that would be great. Not sure about a Foley-Beale 10/12 tandem due to the defensive frailties…would prefer Beale at #10 ( in lieu of Foley) or fullback (Izzy on a wing..)

  • Pclifto

    While I applaud efforts to spread the rugby gospel far and wide, this ultimately has to be driven by World Rugby.

    SANZAAR’s ultimate purpose is surely to drive rugby in its 4 member unions, first and foremost. The Japanese Super Rugby piece feels like an attempt to be altruistic, but this is not acceptable if it impacts on the growth and strength of the 4 member unions.

    The ARU should be pushing hard to get rid of the Sunwolves as a parallel track in case it can’t shift the Rebels or the Force

  • Hoss

    Would be great to see Cheika roll the dice on selections for game one, IMO if we lose that we lose the series (game 2 in the Shaky Isles and no chance) –
    then game 3 is a dead-rubber and the advantage is lost.

    Back some youth – bugger their lack of experience. If their good enough to be on the squad, then unleash them.

    They will have the advantage of raw youth and enthusiasm, not weighed down by 1000 years of Bledisloe losses, not overawed and have the brashness and confidence of youth, not to mention some sizeable frames amongst them.

    Whats to lose Cheik – let em lose and some old hands on the bench to close it out

    1. 7 A’s
    2. Hercules – have you seen the size of that kid
    3. Kepu
    4 Coleman
    5. Arnold
    6. Simmons
    7 Hooper
    8 Timani
    9 Powell
    10 Beale
    11. Speight
    12. Kerevi
    13. Kurindrani
    14 Koribette
    15 Folau
    16 TPN
    17 Faulkner
    18 Sio
    19 Douglas
    20 Korcyck
    21 McMahon
    22 Genia
    23 Foley

    • Kevino

      Swap Folau with DHP and I like your backline, having 5 backs with no kicking game would be my main concern.

      • Hoss

        Good point mate – but we aint real flash in that department now so i would call it about even

      • Adrian

        Remember though, before Folau, how our fullbacks and wingers repeatedly dropped kicks. DHP not that good under bombs

        • Hoss

          I do Adrian, hopefully with Mick Byrne in his second year we will see improvement in our basic skills. We should be fit (lets hope Cheik hasnt trained them to a stand still). From all reports this weeks camp in the Vineyards of Cessnock has been skill, game-plan based so by the time Game 1 hits us we should be sharp, had 4-5 weeks together, be cohesive, confident and competitive. Throw in a sprinkling of bolters in the match day 23 and ………….do we dare dream?

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          I’ll let you dream mate.

        • Hoss

          small mercies mate, small mercies

        • Adrian

          Yes, Hoss, I actually reckon we’ll be competitive.

          It’s a totally different looking team to last year, ….or at least it should be.

          We’ll show more enthusiasm if Moore isn’t playing, and more enthusiasm if Coleman is playing.

          I reckon we’ll do more Beale related ad-libbing in attack, and have a simpler defencive strategy

        • jamie

          DHP isn’t that good? He’s as good as Folau…

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        I still see Folau as a better wing than 15. DHP at 15, Folau at 14.

    • Huw Tindall

      A lot to be said for this approach. In the cricket the England team needed a generational change before they won the Ashes again and have arguably been the dominant side since in that contest. Flintoff and co didn’t give a shit about Steve Waugh’s record in the 90s.

    • TheNutorious

      We should pick our best players. Throwing our young players to the wolves can potentially destroy careers. If they are good enough they are old enough.

      NZ are considerably better than us. I wouldn’t expect a miraculous result from rearranging the deck-chairs on the Titanic. Put out the best team.

      Win, lose or draw all we can ask is that they are well-conditioned, well-organised and motivated.

      • Hoss

        Agree to disagree. Agree the AB’s are stronger. but game one will dictate the series. We wont win in NZ – so why leave it till game three when there’s nothing to play for to blood some younsters and any supposed ‘psychological gains’ from a game 3 win will be lost anyhow as its 12 months till we see the ABs again. Agree that if your good enough your old enough, there good enough to be in the 34, so………??
        I dont expect Cheika to pick a side anything like i referenced, but unless we try something, anything different what will we gain – its 2017 and were still picking Genia (example)

        Maybe its time to ‘risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss’

        Whats the worst that could happen – one more year without the Cup, but a few more young angry Wallabies with a fire in the belly coming through – id take those odds.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          I agree. What have you got to lose? The June tests showed that the current crop aren’t stepping up.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Considering how the team didn’t stand up in June, maybe this is a “best” team.

        • Patrick

          harsh but fair!

        • TheNutorious

          If it is the best team then pick it.

          The logic that we know the best team isn’t going to beat NZ so we should pick different players doesn’t really stand up though.

          Our best team will likely lose to NZ. Our 2nd best team will likely lose to NZ by more and you also have the collateral damage of alienating the superior players.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Mate while I tend to agree with you in part, the fact that the so called superior players lost to Scotland and almost to Italy I’d suggest they actually haven’t got much of a leg to stand on. What are they going to do, threaten to leave Australia and play off shore? Good friggen luck to them. Not sure anyone actually wants them.
          The thing is that while the younger group coming through may lack some experience, their desire and the chance to develop a new culture almost makes it worthwhile. A group of dedicated enthusiastic players in a game where the bounce of a ball, a few critical decisions and the odd referee call can make all the difference may just turn things around.

    • Adrian

      My version of this team has TPN at hooker (Helcules on bench) and Klondike on instead of Simmons, …and a different bench halfback

      But good idea

      • Hoss

        6 was the hardest spot in my thinking due to the slight frame of Hoops (not a dig, just his bulk or lack thereof) and i eventually arrived at Simmo and it started to feel right. Third line-out jumper, some size and aggression in tight (lets face it if he doesn’t play angry now – controlled angry – he never will, cut by reds, no club, unsettled future) an experienced head amongst some excitable youngsters. Got no issues with Taf starting i am a huge fan, but just the unknown (for the Kiwis) of the young Ualese, i like the surprise fact (kiwis don’t know him) and would give him 25 minutes to bash em (legal of course) hit every ruck like a truck with no brakes have the AB;s looking sideways for him, like owen Finnegan or Big Vicks in their heydays.

        • Adrian

          Yes, Hoss, understand the 25 min strategy, and don’t mind it.

          I’m open to Simmons being ok I guess, but I read somewhere that Klondyke is good in lineouts.

          Even though I do expect that Cheika will come up with a pretty good team, including 1 or 2 new enthusiastic guys, my biggest worry is the impact of guys who go out of their way to demonstrate a “I’m cool, everything is under control” attitude.
          Specifically I mean Moore, Foley and Genia.
          To me, they go out of their way to arrogantly give off a vibe of “not looking enthusiastic”
          It drives me mad
          This is no good for younger players.

          My opinion is that Cheika has seen this, and has thus made Foley and Genia vice captains, in the hope that they’ll start “caring”. I think that neither of these guys are guaranteed of selection.

          Unlike almost everyone here, all of my very well informed Rugby friends like Phipps, and would have him anyway over Genia in the last year

          In a team lacking enthusiasm and defensive dedication, surely you’d have your most enthusiastic and dedicated (and fit) player somewhere

        • Ed

          Fellas, I commend your optimism re us for next week.

          Unfortunately I reckon match intensity will let us down next week. Since our last test against Italy, most of our players have had two matches, the Brumbies three, in the past seven weeks.
          The ABs members of the Crusaders have had five matches, all at a higher intensity than what nearly all of our squad have played at.

          While Cheika has had them in camp for a while, their systems, particularly defence, have yet to be tested properly. This also relates to skills. Remember we had poor passing and catching in the first few minutes of tests in June, which can’t be related to fitness.
          I am going to the first Bledisloe and realistically think if we lose by ten points, that is a good effort when you compare the two matchday squads and coaching staff, we are not close.

        • Adrian

          Thanks Ed
          Yes, look, loosing by 10 is realistic, but I think us winning (by 2) is actually possible, if everything clicks, and they are surprised by unexpected tactics and/or players they aren’t familiar with

        • Brumby Runner

          ABs would be no more surprised than I would be.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      I like that team mate. Lots of potential. Just not sure of KB as a 10. It could backfire big time if he fails. Still Foley as a back up is the only option. IMO almost as bad

      • Hoss

        i hear you, but i think he can do more to unlock our backs at 10, the n 12 and i reckon his D is ok at 10 these days.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          We’ll see on Sat week mate

  • RedAnt

    What a breath of fresh air women’s rugby is! The Wallaroos game was hard-fought, tight, skilful and played in a tremendous spirit. No quarter asked, none given. Awesome stuff. Well worth watching.

  • Kiwi rugby lover

    Bloody hell! That escalated fast.

    While I don’t rate KB it’s good to see him mentoring others coming through. I think B1 is going to be interesting and if Kurtley steps up and provides a consistency in attack and defence that I don’t believe he has then good on him and it’ll be a much better contest. Personally I’d prefer Kerevi at 12 and Kuridrani at 13. Maybe KB at 15 and Folau on a wing.

    Mind you the Gray book of defence which has every player rotating through different positions probably makes their number irrelevant anyway.

    • first time long time

      You’ll be able to knock me down with a feather or even a silver fern if the backline is anything other than;

      9 Genia
      10 Foley
      11 DHP
      12 Beale
      13 TK
      14 Speight
      15 Folau
      I will be surprised if Cheika has any surprises there.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Many Kerevi instead of TK

  • Greg

    Force are goneski!

    That should solve the issues with Super Rugby in Australia.

    http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/western-force-to-be-cut-from-super-rugby-next-season-20170811-gxuecf.html

    • first time long time

      Please explain……

      • TheNutorious

        Presume it was saracasm

        • Greg

          Indeed.

          It seems a solution in search of a problem will be implemented.

          In the meantime the problem in search of a solution is still there.

  • Hoss

    Just heard the Force lost arbitration – their out (pending further legal wrangling)

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-11/western-force-super-rugby-arbitration-ruling/8789736

  • TheNutorious

    The ARU deserve all the shit that comes their way now.

    RIP Force

    • Missing Link

      If the ARU go ahead and cut the Force they indeed deserve everything they get!

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Being reported as such in NZ

    • Perth girl

      We’re not dead yet! The fight will go on!

      • mikado

        Good luck!

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Good luck with the fight mate

      • Nicholas Wasiliev

        I hope so! The Force earnt my respect a long time ago, and I support the Brumbies. Not going to lie, many here in Sydney very much want the Force to stay. It’s a pity that the arseholes at the ARU say otherwise. Let’s fight for it!

  • Brisneyland Local

    I agree. I hope the Force and Twiggy Foresst stick it right up the ARU Jacksie! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3496f931da555a7fc0282b4cdfa3ba9ed0c74fe9f01c328def323a010a1e734c.gif

    • Nicholas Wasiliev

      Amen to this! I can’t believe it! This is a terrible decision!

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Gold my friend, pure gold.
      I’m really sad, I was hoping that somehow the ARU would understand how bad this decision would be and come up with something else. I guess like most of us I also can’t see what that something else is in Super Rugby and the colloquialism and nepotism that rules in each if the franchises does make other options unpalatable.
      The only good thing is Pulver’s gone and at least, baring legislation and challenges at least we can move forward.

      • Perth girl

        Maybe you can move forward KRU how can people in WA move forward

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Yeah mate for you it will be a lot harder and I’m really sorry for all of the rugby supporters there. I’m hoping you can still find some joy in rugby.

          Thinking left field should you all fuck the ARU off and join the Currie Cup?

  • Greg

    Pulver standing down. Force launching legal appeal. ffs it goes on and on and round and round.

    Super Rugby comp is still the problem.

  • Kiwi rugby lover

    NZ news is saying Force is gone and Pulver is resigning

  • Brumby Runner

    It seems to me that the underlying cause of all the acrimony going backwards and forwards here about Kurtley Beale lies in a widely-held belief that the original sanctions (punishments) didn’t satisfy the series of incidents he was involved in. Just my view, but had he been hit with a more serious penalty, like a suspension at the time, then there’d be fewer issues with his return to the Wallabies this year.

    I acknowledge here and now that he has kept his head down while overseas and he has served the time (fine) that he was hit with. The past is the past as far as I’m concerned, and if Kurtley is now worthy in terms of skills and form of a spot in the Wallabies, then he has earned his chance. My only concern with him is that we really don’t know what his form is like in direct comparison with other options for the 10/12 and 15 spots at present.

    My much bigger ongoing concern about the Patston issues was with the immediate support that came forward from some players, notably from the Tahs franchise. My personal reaction was to stop reading and posting to the Tahs’ thread, and I still hold that view today. I think they did a disservice to Aus rugby at the time and I haven’t forgiven them. I do hold a grudge, but not against KB but against the others whom I think behaved most unsavourily in the whole incident.

    On another matter and at the risk of being chastised, or worse, I watched the highlights of the Aus/Ireland Women’s rugby match. Apart from one try to the Aus winger following a backline move, all the other tries by both sides appeared to come from the forwards pick and drives near and ultimately over the try line. I might also mention the defense of both sides on the tryline left a whole lot to be desired.

    Were the highlights indicative of the game otherwise? If so, that is precisely the style of rugby that is criticised in the mens’ game and is blamed by many for the lack of interest now in the game. Should I now hang my head in shame and put the effort into watching these matches, or am I just going to be disappointed?

    Finally, good luck to the Force in their next endeavours to stay afloat in the SR comp. I sincerely hope you succeed and that many others in the ARU follow Pulver out the door.

    • mikado

      The women’s game uses pick-and-go and driving mauls less than the men’s, I think. The Irish backs are not particularly fluent (badly missing Niamh Briggs) whereas their pack is good, so they rely more heavily on forwards moves than the average. England seem to have developed a good driving maul too, which will disappoint you, but their backs are excellent too.

      As noted elsewhere, the women’s game has less kicking than the men’s (it’s pretty bad). It also has a lot less scrum shenanigans and fewer penalties kicked for points. So there’s generally more ball-in-hand time than the men’s game, which is good.

  • Kev Brown

    Booooooo

    Rugby is a game
    Played by humans
    Who like stuff and do stuff
    I cannot cast my stone
    I like watching
    The game

  • onlinesideline

    sexually harass ? – geezuz mate – in a mud slingling kind of mood today ?
    (btw sexual harassment means harassing with sexual overtones not harassing someone of opposite sex ?)

  • jay-c

    Eventually you’re going to have to accept that if a player is good enough, the colour of their skin is not important

  • Alan H

    lee enfield, an obsolete, absolute cow of a heavy unbalanced firearm. Describes you well. How about we discuss rugby, rather than dragging up old unpleasantness, about which you know very little. Kerevi admires and respects Kurtley Beale, and you don’t. Tough titties. It can’t be pleasant being a second world war relic that can only fire blanks. Go somewhere else to vent your nasty bitterness.

  • Adrian

    ?????

  • Dud Roodt

    Get. The. Fuck. Over. It

  • Adrian

    Is there anything else you want to imply?
    Is your own life squeaky clean?
    Please sign out until you’ve cooled down

  • joy

    Hey Lee, why not follow Beale’s lead and grow up.

  • joy

    Hey Lee, why are you so keen on Rule 303? Why not follow Beale’s lead and grow up?

  • Waz_dog

    Well pointed out – he did harass someone of the opposite sex.

  • lee enfield

    I guess a photo of a female staff member and the comment would ya is not sexual in its nature of harrassment.

  • onlinesideline

    how do we really know how much Beale was “focused” on by Paterson. We dont really. For all we know she could have been racist and viewed Beale with really predujiced eyes and was quite the Nurse Rachit and quite patronising towards him. We really do not know the truth. I do find the fact that she asked him about his hotel accomodation arangements or something similarly inappropriate, while he was on the bench of a rugby test match an indication that there was some respect missing for Beale as a professional nationally selected rugby player. We dont know the truth. Isnt that the actions of a person in full hassling mode ?

    The way I see Beale is still the way I initially saw hime 10 years ago – a shy Koori kid with exceptional talent thrown into the eastern suburbs cauldron of “look we’re not really racist we’re supporting Kurtley to be his best” – So his ego is somewhat stroked from those blokes and then he gets a streetwise working class girl, take no shit butch woman with an attitude in wallaby camp, hassling the crap out of him in the one part of his life that is sacred to him as a schoolboy / Wallaby prodigy and thats his rugby time in green and gold. Too many people of different stripes trying to tell him what he can and cant do or BE.

    Im not surprised he got the shits with her and he probably held back too.

    Dont judge people till you’ve walked in their shoes !

    PS …. she did sue everyone under the sun eventually – she didnt come across as Mother Theresa.

  • lee enfield

    All good….blame the victim based on zero evidence and a big bucket load of what ifs.

  • lee enfield

    And honestly your “defence ” is weak and a cop out.
    I don’t like being told what I can and can’t do and be, so does that mean I can going punching people and sexually harassing women?

    How do you know I haven’t walked a mile in similar shoes?

  • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

    ‘Im not surprised he got the shits with her and he probably held back too.’

    Absolutely pathetic comment, and encapsulates the self-entitled, arrogant, egocentric attitude of many members of Australian rugby.

    Kurtley Beale was asked to change into team uniform, as per team policy, as everyone else was doing and he had a whinge and acted like a petulant child. Further, he send a harassing text of Patston, which is inexcusable regardless of her actions, and all her and Link’s actions were was asking him to obey team policy.

    ‘Too many people of different stripes trying to tell him what he can and cant do or BE.’

    He’s a professional sportsperson playing in a team, not a self-employed superstar. Do you have a boss? Do you have to conform to work rules and standards and obey your boss? What a rubbish comment, he is a Wallaby, he has to obey the rules.

  • Funk

    “For all we know she could have been racist..” that is one of the most disgusting comments I have seen on this website, casting that sort of dispersion on someone you know fuck all about is downright disgusting!

  • TheNutorious

    I think it is in very bad taste to suggest that Patston’s actions were racist.

    Beale was perceived as a trouble-maker based on his behaviour in that period and Link delegated disciplinary action to her which she was probably not equipped to deal with. She handled a trouble-maker poorly and he acted out. Patson is the victim here, placed in a position she shouldn’t have been.

    Beale acted like an idiot, served his punishment and rightfully is back in the fold.

    Unfortunately the fall-out hasn’t been kind to Patson.

    It’s not a black and white issue. McKenzie, Patson and Beale come out of it badly but it’s time to move on. The biggest victim is Patson the suggestions of racism are bang out of order

  • lee enfield

    Why do I have to eventually accept this? I haven’t mentioned race or colour, you have and onlinesideline have. You two have been quick to pull the race card, it says more about you and your natural instinct to dog whistle and use race as a means to silence differing opinions.

  • Waz_dog

    Wtf is this comment? This comment needs to be deleted – there has been no insinuatation of race whatsoever.

  • Bakkies

    If there was no evidence he wouldn’t have been fined $45,000.

  • onlinesideline

    sorry but that comment is a compelte load of BS – my observations as to a aboriginal kid thown into the deep end as well as possibly been treated with predujice MEANS IM THEREFORE INSTINCTIVELY PREDUJICED ?

  • lee enfield

    You should probably read the comment of Jay-C above…..

  • onlinesideline

    Because no matter how similar your shoes are they are still not HIS shoes therefore your possible “similar” journey is as close as completely different.
    Similar means nothing.

    You also dont know the full facts. You have no idea of the racism he may or may not off suffered from her. Maybe he choose to cop it sweet because he had his hands tied. You dont know squat mate.

  • onlinesideline

    Yeah mate, the ARU are oozing integrity.

  • lee enfield

    What does his being aboriginal have to do with his actions? He is either capable of knowing right v wrong or he isn’t. Using his heritage as a defence is a cop out.
    You have zero evidence that he was treated with prejudice and are blaming the victim based on possibilities, which are endless.

  • lee enfield

    Cases of similar facts are usually judged on precedent, so similar means something.
    The precedent has now been set and hopefully it will never be used as a defence in the future.

    You clearly don’t know the facts cause your whole defence is based on what ifs, possibilities and a good dose of blaming the victim for the actions of the perpetrator.

    I especially loved how you described the victim as a “Streetwise butch woman”…..beautiful.

  • onlinesideline

    You have zero evidence he was NOT treated in a racist manner. News flash for ya. Australlians are by default extremey racist towards Koori people. They always have been and continue to be today. Just look at the disgusting and sickening treament of Adam Goodes from AFL crowd. Look at that sick and twisted prick, Eddy Mcguire and the way he speaks and acts.

    By default there is more chance than not that he has been a victim of racism throughout his journey in Australin rugby. Racism is nuanced and comes in many different stripes. When there is NO racism in this country of the type we still see today THEN I will file the “race card” away.

  • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

    ‘You have zero evidence he was NOT treated in a racist manner.’

    Utterly ridiculous comment. Innocent until proven guilty, you cant just assume he was treated in a prejudicial manner and shift the onus onto people to prove that he was not facing racial discrimination.

    If you don’t have any evidence that he was treated in a prejudicial manner due to his background then don’t make the allegations, and don’t engage in victim blaming of a woman who was the victim of harassment.

    I don’t hate Kurtley, maybe he learned his lesson from his poor actions. However, in that case he was wrong, and he was found guilty of being wrong.

    You do understand that you’re defending a harasser and blaming the victim?

  • lee enfield

    Cool story brah….changed my life.

    I am not the one making allegations of prejudice and racism and not providing any evidence. It is not for me to prove she isn’t, it is up to you to prove she is as you claim
    I would suggest either pony up the evidence or cease making defamatory comments about the victim.

    I am not going to engage on your second paragraph, as it is emotional and not relevant to this case….afterall you said similar means nothing.

  • Who?

    I’m not wanting to bring up Beale’s past (the past is the past – it should stay there). But to expect ANY country will ever be free from racism is a utopian delusion… Should I be grumpy that the Queen didn’t apologize when she went to the Dail in Dublin? That was 700 years of oppression, not a ‘mere’ 200. I don’t say that with the intention of disrespecting the clear suffering of the indigenous population (clearly you’re from NSW – Koori is a very local name, every region has their own name), it’s genuine and real. And not totally resolved. But they don’t hold the monopoly on suffering.
    And I know people who wanted to boo Goodes for years for his staging, but couldn’t because they knew that the immediate response would be that they’d be decried as racist. Of course, if you were a Swannies fan, he never staged! If you want to go further, you’ll be saying that those who got upset by the indigenous AFL star doing a dance after scoring that finished with a spear throw were racists for getting upset with him… I thought the dance was awesome, but if a player in any code went and antagonized fans like that in any other way, they’d have been sanctioned. I didn’t want him sanctioned, but thought he might’ve been counselled. If he’d been doing it in front of his own fans, it would’ve been the coolest celebration ever (because it was awesome, it just found poor context, like the throat-slitting gesture at the end of Kapa O’Pango when it was first released). They’d have gone crazy! But any sort of celebration in front of opposition fans is always going to be antagonistic, so a celebration that clearly ends with a gesture that references actual warfare… It’s going to draw a response. Reality is that the war dance was a mic drop, and any reaction to it was never going to come close for quality. And the only reason the (massively inferior) responses from the crowd got any attention was that they came after a cultural celebration, so they could be framed by the press as racist. It’s a farce to paint everything with the race brush. Should clarify, don’t watch AFL myself, just know people who do, and we all get caught up in what floods the news cycle…
    Unless there’s clear evidence of racism… Perhaps we ought to allow people a chance to debate the issues. Whilst I don’t see Lee Enfield’s point in bringing up items from years ago (Beale should’ve been sacked, copped a massive fine, shouldn’t have been brought into the team in November by Cheika – something that completely undermined his fine and punishment, and helped create the perception of blue bias. But he’s since been brilliant on the field, and has no recorded indiscretions off field, so should be judged on that record), I don’t see where he’s complained once about KB’s ethnicity, and as such bringing it in is only enflaming a situation unnecessarily.

  • onlinesideline

    This wasnt a one off. She had been hassling the shit out of him from word go. He said that at the time but was afraid to take it any furthur because he had made mistake with the stupid text which was wrong, of course it was, but there was way more too it than what public was privy too.

  • onlinesideline

    As a matter of fact I know alot more than you on the matter so you can take your disgust and deal with it in PC world.

  • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

    That’s his story, I’m sure her’s would be different. Interesting that you’re so quick to believe the story of the harasser rather than the victim.

    Given that people at the Reds had worked with Patston and had no problem with her, and the Brumbies in the Wallabies had no problem with her either that indicates she wasn’t a nasty person, and probably had more to do with Beale.

    If certain players were breaking team rules it was her job to enforce them.

    The time that it blew up Kurtley had refused to follow a simple instruction to put on the team uniform like everyone else was asked.

    Hardly a nasty or ‘hassling’ thing for her to do. Kurtley acted like a little brat due to a simple and reasonable instruction.

  • onlinesideline

    if you think systematic racism towards Koori people in this country is nothing but a “cool story” then you only add weight to the reality that this is a country in massive denial “brah”

  • onlinesideline

    You do not know squat Mr PC. She had harassed him from word go. Innocent till proven guilty ? Wow you’ve utterly destroyed my aspirations to head to the bar. Never even knew.

    Know the facts – BECAUSE YOU DONT. What youve seen is a foul text and thats it.

  • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

    Another pathetic comment. Go enjoy your bile, onlinesideline.

  • Funk

    Has nothing to do with PC, it has to do with you making slanderous comments about someone with no evidence to back it up.

  • onlinesideline

    go speak to a few players in private then talk to me

  • lee enfield

    I think your opinion on this is a cool story…because all you have done is tell a cool story.
    You may be right, but you ceased being effective the moment you used race to defend the perpertrator and attack the victim and topped it off with some sexism

    Using race to defend his actions is in itself racist, as you are saying because he is aboriginal he does not know better.

  • Funk

    There is 3 sides to every story….

  • lee enfield

    Hear say….I bet there are 5 other players who will back his version…probably the same 5 who publicly backed him

  • jay-c

    As long as I’ve been coming to this site lee Enfield has directed vitriol towards Kurtley Beale. Often daily.
    Had enough of his bs and calling it for what it is

  • Waz_dog

    Can you do up a descriptor for people that dislike JOC, QC, Foley, hooper and Simmons also? This website allows for people to have opionions, opionions that in some occasions don’t change. Doesn’t mean they hold grudges, have obsolete ideas, it means their mind doesn’t change. If you don’t respect that, well, tough titties.

  • lee enfield

    Beale should have been shown the door the same way O’Connor was. I dislike double standards and a lack of accountability. Prior to that incident I was a Beale fan but it was the straw that broke my back. Being talented should not make one immune from accountability.

  • onlinesideline

    1. “You may be right” – a minute ago you were so sure he was the harrasser and she the victim – You now saying that MAY not be the case ? – make up your mind. Better still get some real facts – it always helps.

    2. By pointing to the fact that he is a victim of racism in a country that has shamed itself internationally for its treatment of its indigenous people therefore makes me Racist ? – yep ok mate

  • onlinesideline

    yeah and for someone who seems to be so stricken with “disgust” you know no more than 1 – thats the BS media and haters version

  • onlinesideline

    He was backed by players for a reason and he is talked about extremely fondly by many many players today from across the code internationally.

    But you were the type of person to bring up a stupid indescretion made years ago for no other reason than to blemish for the sake of blemishing AGAIN – so I dont hold your so called arguments much weight to be honest, if any at all.

  • joy

    Six

  • Funk

    sounds to me like you have heard one and are sticking to it, even though there is evidence of what he did.

  • onlinesideline

    im not denying what he did. I never have.I said it was stupid and he knows it. What I am saying is that she was by no means completely innocent in that scenario. But people were so quick to dumb the situation down and label her the oh so underserving victim and him the oh so morally bankrupt monster, which is just another way to shape the incident to serve peoples PC agenda and create another so called reason to unleash.

  • Funk

    “…label her the oh so underserving victim…” can you please explain to me what a “deserving victim” might be?

    Oh that’s right it’s someone “who might be racist”

    that’s it from me….I’m out.

  • lee enfield

    He is definitely the harasser….he has a finding of guilt…fact.

    I am not so narrow minded to say that there is no possibility he was not the victim of racism and prejudice. I am saying that you have produced NO evidence to back up your claim. So even if you are right, you are not being effective as you have relied on slander and defamation.

    But that is not the fact you are pointing out, as you have not produced any proof, your defence is opinion and emotion, not fact. You defended his actions by bringing in his heritage. As said his heritage as nothing to do with knowing right from wrong. By using his heritage to excuse his behaviour, you are treating him different based on race.

  • onlinesideline

    someone whose behavour is in tandem with the victimiser or even worse. The label of victim and harasser only refers to the one highlighted act of the text but there are always extraenous facts surrounding the case that often can get overlooked. It just so happens in this case it was not taken any furthur for a bunch of reasons

  • onlinesideline

    How do you know that she in fact was not the harasser and he the victim but as a result of a stupid text that he admits was stupid that reality was turned on its head momentarily ?

    On closer inspection the facts may reveal just that. Im not going to drag up conversations I have had with players on a rugby forum but I will stand by argument that the only version of events that you saw was the PC media and a PC ARU.

    What you are trying to do is SEPARATE his black identity from the every day racist Australia he experiences. You cant say “yeah there is some racism in Australia but Kurtleys a big boy and if he was provoked then tough shit”

    What I said was that he is a victim of racism in a racist country being of aboriginal descent and while he will be the first to admit that the text was stupid it doesnt discount that he in fact had been a victim of racism preceding his error.

    I also think dragging up his error a few years after, a week before a test match, knowing fully well he has moved on and grown up is nothing but blemishing again for the sake of blemishing and blemishing only.

  • lee enfield

    Like I said earlier, that fact you see this a race issue says more about you than me. The guys behaviour was way out of line and met the theshold for having his contract terminated like O’Connor.

  • Braveheart81

    He faced a disciplinary hearing in front of an independent panel who handed down the largest fine in ARU history. The ARU did want him sacked at that point.

    When JOC had his contract cancelled, those same measures weren’t in place. They were put in place after McKenzie stood players down on the end of year tour in 2013 which he was not permitted to do without a proper disciplinary process.

    That was three years ago now and thankfully Beale has behaved himself since.

  • Bakkies

    Beale and the ARU are bad as each other. A toxic match made in fumes.

  • lee enfield

    Until those facts come out….it is just hear say. If they ever come out I will read them and go from there. If what you say is true then it shouldn’t be tolerated either.

    Ultimately based on the facts I know including assaulting team mates, I would prefer Beale not play for the Wallabies. The aru should have shown him the same door as O’Connor.

  • onlinesideline

    Having a punch up with a team mate warrants being put out to pasture ? Yeah like it was the first, try the first of about about 10 000 punch ups across rugby NRL, AFL and even cricket over the last 100 years – why is that Kurtley Beales punch up seems to illicit such strong emotions in you @lee enfield ?

  • TheNutorious

    Scraps amongst team mates have been happening since the dawn of the game.

    Beale has been punished for everything he has done and by all accounts has matured greatly in recent years and his behaviour has improved.

    The desired outcome.

    Beale got into fights, had poor drunken behaviour, and send lewd messages to team-mates about a female member of staff. All acts deserving of punishment and none deserving of a life sentence. It is time to move on.

  • onlinesideline

    defending Kurtley from uninformed haters is NOT bile

  • onlinesideline

    But theres a difference in having a negative opinion about someone and tritely bringing up someones stupid indescretion a few years ago which is completely out of context and has no other intent but to just blemish for the sake of blemishing

  • lee enfield

    Why does eating burgers at 3am and having an argument with your partner warrant being put out to pasture? Which as stated I agree with the aru decision.

    It is the pattern of poor behaviour and choices. Once is a mistake, twice or more is not. He punched his Captain, he punched a team mate who tried to de-escslate the situation and then harassed a staff member who held a position of authority….so it leads to a pattern of problems with authority. This is not the type of behaviour that I want associated with the Wallabies.

    If we are going to use the nrl as a benchmark for standards, then Rugby in Australia is in serious trouble. Society has changed and so has the behavioural expectations of players.

    You and Jay-c can continue to claim and insuinate I am racist….I really don’t care about the opinions of others. It is typical of people today who try and shut down debate with name calling and advocate discrimination as a means of ending discrimination.

    I have not bought up race and my opinion is based on nothing other than actions and actions have consequences.

  • onlinesideline

    I dont see KB as toxic what so ever. He made a couple of stupid errors early on as young 20 something. But mostly he is a fantastic young kid thrown into a totally alien enviroment full of hangers on and been a great player to watch and has grown into a fine young man.

    This is a contact sport played by highly physical athletes who sometimes act in a physical way, Suprise Surprise. Many blokes have had punch ups with team mates across the years. Why is it OK for Rod Marsh to CONSISTENTLY sink 24 VBs and constantly cause strife, make a galar of himself on planes and run up and down hotel hallways naked considered Australian sporting folklore but whn KB drinks one too many maybe for a small phase of his life like say 6- 9 months – then he should be reminded of it for all eternity. The hypocrisy is insane. Who hasnt had one too many and made a mistake. The self righteousness makes me vomit.

  • onlinesideline

    The only thing changed about todays society is that they are judgemental and fake more than by-gone generations and have become very crafty at setting themselves up on a self appointed perch pointing fingers at other peoples indescretions as a tool to enhance their footing in society. Its a tool used by the liberal PC thought and speech police to gain position.

    But its a fake and hypocritical righteousness.

    Everyone makes mistakes. Its very easy to be without mercy and to be in strict judgement. It much more of an achievment to enable and facilitate growth. Look at KB today and how hes grown and yet for some reason you feel justified in jumping on here and bringing up a past indescretion from years ago. And thats why the fish starts to smell to me when you say societys changed and high standarsds and all that but you’ll hop on here and start bringing up stuff a guy has done years ago and who has clearllllly grown. Why cant you move on and give the lad a chance just like you’d want ?

  • TheNutorious

    The pattern of bad behaviour… stopped years ago.

  • Bakkies

    Lee, Beale brought the game to disrepute numerous times, enough to get sacked. This is before we even discuss his driving bans, driving while suspended and other court appearances.

  • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

    So criticising Kurtley’s action of harassing Patston—which he was found guilty of—is being a ‘hater’?

    Strange logic.

  • Braveheart81

    It was three years ago. Build a bridge and get over it.

  • onlinesideline

    No but discountng the possibility that KB may be a victim of racism and harrasment is denying KB’s rights and to me is hateful. You may say wheres the evidence. Im saying Ive been personally presented with evidence. Thats all I was saying.

  • TheNutorious

    He sent a message to the players whatsapp group with an explicit photo of someone else and wrote her name on a caption.

    Very immature act and offensive to Patston but you are deliberately over-playing it to justify this fake offence which is in very bad taste.

    It was idiotic, immature behaviour by Beale which he was punished for and it was 3 years ago.

  • TheNutorious

    No doubt many players resented her because the manager made her be the disciplinarian when she had no formal authority (or apparently training) to do so. I don’t really blame them for that.

    I just feel sorry for her here though.

    Suggesting it was racially motivated is slanderous.

  • McWarren

    Couldn’t agree more BH. Enough of this holding to accont a young 20 something for stupid stuff. Same goes for Cooper.

  • Bakkies

    ‘They were put in place after McKenzie stood players down on the end of year tour in 2013 which he was not permitted to do without a proper disciplinary process.’

    You think. The ARU dished out written warnings to some players. Those players who got written warnings had transgressed previously.

  • TheNutorious

    She was also badgering him about hotel bills etc while on the bench during a game.

    You’re all portraying this as a black and white issue with a villain/victim. It’s obviously a lot more nuanced.

  • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

    I am over it, mate, by all accounts Beale has matured and his actions demonstrate this. Power to him, he deserves credit for that.

    However, can’t agree with the rubbish onlinesideline is saying about Beale being in the right, Patston being in the wrong, and him excusing Beale’s harassment. The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

  • onlinesideline

    why is the accusation of her being racist out of order – she was out of her depth and fell back onto the tried and tested approach that many people people resort to without even knowing it, sometimes knowing it. Racism is nuanced and trying to keep Kurtley on an extra short leash which is not commensurate with his behavour is riddled with racist sub consciouness. Not all forms of racism are as simple as called someone a “bung”. Its a complex issue. And I happen to know the extent and approach of this newly employed disciplinary culture was ridiculous in KBs case.

  • TheNutorious

    Because it is unfounded, unsubstantiated and not backed up by a single shred of evidence in the public domain.

    Beale was a trouble-maker, no-one can deny that. She was, foolishly, made to be the disciplinarian in the squad set-up. She wasn’t equipped to do it and we saw the consequences.

    I don’t blame her, she wasn’t up to doing what was asked of her. I blame who put her in that position (Link) and who acted terribly (Beale).

    You can’t just go around throwing out accusations of racism. That’s not me being precious, it is illegal.

  • onlinesideline

    1. Yeah but staging or no staging he was repeatedly referred to as an ape by the AFL crowd over and over again

    2. Then Eddy Macguires little jibe that he would be the right guy to promote the upcoming movie King Kong.

    3. there racism in OZ and we all know it and we should STRIVE to get rid of even though it may be utopia.

    4. I actually was stating that KB was a victim of racist attitudes and over disciplinarian approach towards him which Lee Enfield rejected. I never called him a racist per se just someone who is discounting the above reality. Not willing to site my sources in public doesnt help me I but I never said he was racist. What I said was that its mean spirited to incessantly raise prior misdemeanours for any other purpose than to what seems like self righteous spite

  • TheNutorious

    Ah come on ffs the Goodes stuff was blatantly racially motivated. Ludicrous to be pedalling the tedious excused trotted out to defend it.

  • Waz_dog

    OLSL I agree with you there – LE’s intent is to remind Beale of his short comings. Where was the backlash over this kind of sentiment when JOC, QC got shit canned? Hardly a whimper and more of a don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Why is ok to sink the boot in to some and not to others? People either have the right to shit can or they don’t – can’t be one rule for one and not for the other.

  • onlinesideline

    I never said he was in the right. I said it was stupid and he admitted it was stupid thing to do. Im saying that leading up to this incident he was treated like redfern trouble maker. He was never that bad and deserved to be treated with more respect, She was out of her depth – oh forget it. Im done with this shit

  • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

    You’re living in fantasy world, sideline.

    I didn’t see myself or anyone else say deny the possibility that KB was the victim of racism in the Wallabies setup, he indeed might have been, but the fact is that you have no evidence whatsoever to back up your allegations, you’ve made it all up.

    Either get some evidence he was a victim of racism or walk along.

  • BAGS

    Kurtley has never been charged with a criminal offence (his driving offence was not a criminal offence). This cannot be said about a certain north of the tweed favourite of some posters.

  • Who?

    All of it? Really? Can you really prove that, or are you just jumping in on the standard leftist stereotype, that everyone’s a racist and that’s their sole motivation? It’s just as anencephalous as the standard right stereotype, that no one’s racist and none of it is racially motivated… The people I know who complained about Goodes were complaining about him staging years before he ever got booed…
    Sometimes we need to realize that people can have multiple motivations, and sometimes we need to give people the benefit of the doubt. That’s as true for people booing players as it is for players with checkered pasts.

  • Who?

    1. The booing was after the staging claims. Referring to someone as an ape is clearly racial vilification (even if it was supposedly unintentional. It’s like black face – those guys on Hey Hey years ago weren’t doing it to cause a problem (the irony being that they weren’t technically white people), but it’s still not right.
    2. Eddie McGuire… I don’t think anyone other than Eddie can defend Eddie. I have no interest in defending the indefensible (he’s a bloke who runs a code/club/thing I wish didn’t exist, I wouldn’t be unhappy to see him and the rest of the AFL fade from existence).
    3. There is racism in Australia. There always will be. That’s reality. We should strive to reduce and remove it, but I didn’t teach my kids to pick skin colour differences. I just have to manage the times when they ask innocent questions in inappropriate ways… Racism isn’t desirable, but I’m not sure it’s not one of our baser natural instincts.
    4. There’s no clear, public evidence showing that KB copped any of the allegations you’ve made, so you’ve made an argument backed up without facts. In fact, I’d argue that what you’ve done in calling ‘racism’ is effectively the same as labelling someone a Nazi. It’s a way to stop the discussion by giving up, because no one can have a real discussion once that term is thrown out, and most people will react by ignoring the person making the allegation, when it’s not the victim him/herself making the call.
    I’m not saying that we should be referring to KB’s past. Absolutely not. But that doesn’t mean we should also then go and claim someone who’s lived a much more charmed life than the average person is a victim, and therefore we ignore the bad behaviour. Especially when he didn’t ignore it – he acknowledged, dealt with it, and moved on. As we all should. And my reference to the Queen in the Dail is appropriate for exactly that reason. We’ve all got stuff in the past (our own personal history, or our ancestral heritage) that is an excuse for us to hold a grudge or behave inappropriately. It’s our own choice as to whether or not we choose to focus on that.
    Enfield’s not the only one who feels KB should’ve copped more than he did (I think that – that he shouldn’t have been flown over in November. The rest, I’m fine. But it’s ancient history now, I’ve moved on), and he’s not the only one still angry every time he’s picked. The correct response isn’t to have a 50+ post flame war…

  • joy

    Why is it illegal denying causation of racism? You are full of bullshit.

  • onlinesideline

    You need to educate yourself about the different forms that racism can take. MOST racism is so entrenched the perpertrator doesnt even know they are being racist. The Adam Goodes episodes are in the minority. Most racism is multi layered. Most people in society harbour SOME form of racism. To say you dont would put you in a group of .00000000000000001 % of Australians. I am obvioulsy not going to mention people names on GGR – OBVIOUSLY – but I can tell you first hand that he was subjected to a unique form of discipline that was over the top and unjustified. He is also aboriginal. To deny therefore that there is subtle albeit unintentional racism at work here is delusional. If you confine your understanding of racism to just verbal assaults from an AFL crowd kind you will have trouble understanding what I am saying which it seems you have. Di Paterson obviously did not turn round and call KB a “whatever”. But she did something of a different nature which is still racist.

    I might add if you are hellbent on evidence, a number of players standing up for Kurtley surely indicates to you that his treatment was over the top. When in the last 30 -40 years if ever have you seen players do that publicly and risk their own good standing.

  • onlinesideline

    1. Ive moved on too – thats my point – some people havent and wont – let the guy be

    2. Equating ALL racism as nazism is ridiculous mate. There are stark differences.

    3. Claiming racial bias does not stiffle debate

    4. Just because he has had a charmed life ( and he has had his personal battles like all of us) doesnt mean he cant be victim of unintentional subtle albeit real racism which can take so many different forms.

  • Bakkies

    So what is a driving offence then? He was done for driving while suspended and charged with assaulting a bouncer.

  • Bakkies

    That’s the problem with Australian society labelling sexual harassment and punching your team captain as a mistake. Neither is a mistake, people defend these actions and the perpetrator refuses to grow up.

    How many second chances did Todd Carney get and then went ahead and screwed up again. People defended him and said he was only a kid. The clown was about 26 when he got sacked by Cronulla.

  • Bakkies

    A couple of errors? He has done more than enough to get sacked. My manager would have had me out the door if I had punched my team leader (in sporting terms captain).

    Beale has also turned up to Tarts preseason woefully out of condition and been dropped by the Wallabies (McKenzie) for being out of form and shape.

  • Who?

    My points were based off your points…
    1. Agreed. Leave the issue in the past.
    2. There’s a difference, sure. I’m saying that using racism in an argument these days has as much effect as calling someone a Nazi, nothing more. It’s effectively saying, “I’ve got nothing else, so I’ll just call you a Nazi. Or a racist.” Though it’s worth noting that Nazism is just the most extreme form of racism…
    3. Claiming racial bias without evidence doesn’t prove anything – in fact, without evidence – clear, public, on the record, citable evidence – it does nothing but undermine your own argument.
    4. Having a charmed life makes it harder for someone to be painted as the victim. And makes it much harder to sell a sob story. “Oh dear, this bloke who’s just made something like £1.4m having fun playing footy in the last year had a rough time a few years ago. I feel so sorry for him… Meanwhile, I’ve got to slog my guts out for 65 hours a week in a job I didn’t choose and don’t enjoy with colleagues who don’t always treat me well so that I can pay a home loan that’s taking 45% of my take home pay and my wife has to work 45 hours a week and the kids are in childcare more than we see them…” That’s not my story, but it’s not unrealistic. Don’t try and sell a sob story for a bloke who’s had it better than average – it doesn’t work. You sell a story of injustice, not victimisation.

  • Who?

    I don’t think the golden children who stood up for Beale were risking anything… AAC, Hooper, they were very entrenched (a VC and the then captain, if I recall).
    You’re right, most issues that can be described as racist are multi-layered. They’re very, very rarely straight out racism (and I’d argue the booing of Goodes was the same – some would’ve been racist, some would’ve been unhappy with his play, and many would’ve had varying elements of both). But to focus on something that might be partially racism (there’s no claim, even from yourself, that it was straight racist), but could easily be down to a personality clash (that happens – and it doesn’t require differences of melanin), and something that, again, is not publicly confirmed, is drawing some very, very long straws…

  • TheNutorious

    What have I said that corresponds with any definition of racism?

    As I have said in many posted, which you have engaged with, Beale was on the receiving end of bad treatment. It still doesn’t give you carte blanche to cry racism.

  • TheNutorious

    “Why is it illegal denying causation of racism? You are full of bullshit.”
    I don’t really follow and there is no need for that type of post.

    It is illegal to accuse someone of being racist without anything tangible to back that up. It is slander. I don’t make the rules.

  • onlinesideline

    You havent said anything racist on this forum but Australians are racist and racism exists in nuaced and subtle ways in many people.

    “Carte blance” – hardly – I know he was treated in x manner and I belive it was of a racist overtone. Thats my opinion and I can make that claim on a forum if I wish. I dont have to present to the forum why, its my belief and opinion. You can take it seriously or choose not too – its irrelevant to me wether you consider my opinion is one that holds water. I know the facts and your opinion doesnt change them. Im not trying to convince you, its just what I choose to say.

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@Nick_Wasiliev

Die-hard Brumbies/Country Eagles fan now based in Sydney. Author, anthropologist, musician and second-rower trying to kick start a writing career in an increasingly bonkers world...

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