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Friday’s Rugby News

Friday’s Rugby News

Fridays Rugby News sees Israel boned, Thorn signed, Wallaroo news, and an 82-year-old rugby player


Folau Boned

Look… There’s flat earther stupid, and then there’s anti-vaxers stupid. And then there throwing away a multi-million dollar contract posting preachy, talk down to ordinary folk memes on Instagram stupid. I could go on but I’d probably start saying things that could get me and GaGR sued.

RA sent out a media release last night which ended with this quote from Raelene Castle, “In the absence of compelling mitigating factors, it is our intention to terminate his contract.”

Punters immediately jumped to the conclusion that Folau could sue because his sacking was an infringement on his religious freedom, but that’s probably not why he’s in the poop. He is, in fact, able to pursue any religion he wants to and say whatever he wants. But no one ever said there should be no consequence to saying whatever you want.

RA has a code of conduct that Folau agreed to abide by when he signed his contract. He’s in breach of at least one section of it.

1.3 Treat everyone equally, fairly and with dignity regardless of gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, ethnicity, cultural or religious background, age or disability. Any form of bullying, harassment or discrimination has no place in Rugby.

And maybe this one.

1.7 Use Social Media appropriately. By all means, share your positive experiences of Rugby but do not use Social Media as a means to breach any of the expectations and requirements of you as a player contained in this Code or in any Union, club or competition rules and regulations.

Folau has already been warned for the same thing earlier in the year and by refusing to answer RA’s calls he’s really left RA nowhere to go from here.

Thorn Re-signed

Brad Thorn

The Queensland Reds announced yesterday that Head Coach Brad Thorn is sticking around for another season. There have been rumbling amongst the more cynical Reds fans about the quality of Rugby the Reds are playing but to me, it’s the right move. Especially when he comes with assistant coaches Jim McKay and Peter Ryan.

It’s a fairly long time since the Reds have picked and stuck with a coach if the good times don’t roll straight away. With Thorn they’ve picked an untried coach in the hope he will develop with the team. They’ve put talented people around him and as weaknesses have raised their ugly heads they’ve tried to address them.

This from the media release.

QRU CEO David Hanham said: “We remain focused on our medium and long-term coaching strategies that are aimed at creating a strong Rugby program at Ballymore.

“Brad and his coaching team emphasise the importance of leadership, hard work and humility to the squad each day and we continue to be confident we will reap the rewards of this approach as this squad gains more Super Rugby experience.”

Reds head coach Brad Thorn said: “It’s an honour to coach Queensland. The club is headed in a good direction and I want to continue being a part of that.

“We’ve got a good group of humble and hard-working men. We’re all here to support one another and put in for each other. We have an established coaching group here now too, with Jim McKay, Peter Ryan, Cameron Lillicrap (scrum coach/physiotherapist), Dave Alred (Kicking Coach) and Brynley Abad (Strength and Conditioning head coach) all on board.

“Our focus remains on growing our game and improving as a group every week. There’ll be obstacles in front of us, but we’ve established a good Rugby program and will build on it moving forward,” said Thorn.

Wallaroo Squad Named!

The Wallaroos have named their first extended squad of 2019 with 16 uncapped players included. Australia will face Japan in a two-Test Series on home soil this July, before taking on New Zealand at Optus Stadium in Perth and then Eden Park in Auckland in two Trans-Tasman Double Headers.

Buildcorp Wallaroos Head Coach Dwayne Nestor said: “This is a strong extended squad after what has been a really pleasing Buildcorp Super W season.
“We saw the standard of the competition continue to grow and that has led to an improved squad of players to select from.
“This squad is about preparing not only for our biggest year on home soil, but also making sure we are continuing to build a strong program for the 2021 Women’s Rugby World Cup.
“Players will come and go from this squad based on their form and performance so it’s vital that every player continue to work hard at training over the coming months.
“We are excited about the year ahead and we know we have a real opportunity to create some amazing history for the Buildcorp Wallaroos jersey.”
The squad was selected following the conclusion of the Buildcorp Super W season that saw NSW Waratahs Women defeat Queensland Women XV 8-5 in the Final at Leichhardt Oval last Sunday.
Tickets for the Japan Test Series will go on sale next Thursday 18 April.
Forwards
Millie Boyle, Bond University, Queensland Women’s XV
Emily Chancellor, Sydney University, NSW Waratahs Women
Rebecca Clough, Cottesloe, Western Australia
Toa (Dora) Filimoehala*, Sunnybank, Queensland Women’s XV
Grace Hamilton, Sydney University, NSW Waratahs Women
Alisha Hewett, GPS/ADFRU, Queensland Women’s XV
Evelyn Horomia, Western Sydney, NSW Waratahs Women
Fi Jones*, Sydney University, NSW Waratahs Women
Asoiva (Eva) Karpani*, NSW Waratahs Women
Michaela Leonard, Brumbies Women
Kiri Lingman, Sunnybank, Queensland Women’s XV
Ashley Marsters, Melbourne Rebels Women
Shannon Mato*, Sunnybank, Queensland Women’s XV
Michelle Milward, Vikings, Brumbies Women
Averyl Mitchell*, University of Queensland, Queensland Women’s XV
Sera Naiqama*, Sydney University, NSW Waratahs Women
Georgia O’Neill, Uni Norths, Brumbies Women
Liz Patu, Wests, Queensland Women’s XV
Emily Robinson, Warringah, NSW Waratahs Women
Christina Sekona*, Sunnybank, Queensland Women’s XV
Ana-Lise Sio, Western Sydney, NSW Waratahs Women
Tayla Stanford, Vikings, Brumbies Women
Violeta Tupuola, Vikings, Brumbies Women
Darryl Wickliffe, Kalamunda, Rugby WA Women
Backs 
Katrina Barker, Newcastle, NSW Waratahs Women
Iliseva Batibasaga, Sydney University, NSW Waratahs Women
Mhicca Carter, Cottesloe, Rugby WA Women
Georgia Cormick*, Powerhouse, Melbourne Rebels Women
Lori Cramer*, University of Queensland, Queensland Women’s XV
Alana Elisaia*, Sunnybank, Queensland Women’s XV
Courtney Hodder*, Palmyra, Rugby WA Women
Zakiya Kereopa*, Nedlands, Western Australia
Atasi Lafai, Campbelltown, NSW Waratahs Women
Chloe Leaupepe, Warringah, NSW Waratahs Women
Alysia Lefau-Fakaosilea*, Sunnybank, Queensland Women’s XV
Crystal Maguire Warringah, NSW Waratahs Women
Nareta Marsters Souths, Queensland Women’s XV
Cobie-Jane Morgan, Sunnybank, Queensland Women’s XV
Mahalia Murphy, Campbelltown, NSW Waratahs Women
Asako Ono*, University of Queensland, Queensland Women’s XV
Shanice Parker Warringah, NSW Waratahs Women
Trilleen Pomare, Kalamunda, Rugby WA Women
Sarah Riordan, Wests/ADFRU, Queensland Women’s XV
Maya Stewart*, Newcastle Waratahs, NSW Waratahs Women
Samantha Treherne, Sunnybank, Queensland Women’s XV
Samantha Wood*, Gungahlin Eagles, Brumbies Women
*Denotes Uncapped

 

David ‘Southey’ Bell

David ‘Southey’ Bell

You don’t come across stories like this every day! David ‘Southey’ Bell, an 82-year-old guy living in Western Australia has been playing rugby for 76 years. ABC South West WA broke the story.

“The fun of the game is more, not knocking someone over but just having the fun of the game,” Mr Bell said.

His rugby career spans 76 years and started at the age of six in South Africa, with his first coach, Miss Mullins.

“We had a woman coach because there were no men about because they had all gone off to the Second World War.

“I remember standing there with a big fat leather football and thinking this was going to be good and from then I’ve always played rugby,” Mr Bell said.

After 76 years in the sport, Mr Bell is still modest about his skills, but his love for the game has never diminished.

“It’s the people — I love putting the ball through their hands.

“It’s just lovely to be surrounded by rugby people, people who love the game as much as I do,” he said.

 Mr Bell is believed to be the oldest rugby union player in WA, but on the international scene, players as old as 85 have been known to compete for Japan in the Golden Oldies World Rugby Festival.So when will Mr Bell finally hang up the boots?

“I will keep playing touch rugby until I can’t,” he said.

Southey isn’t the oldest guy running around but he’s up there with the best. I’d like to personally thank him for his service to our game. Southey, we salute you!

  • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

    Thanks for this.

    I’m no SC but I do not think that you cannot contract away your legal right to freedom of religion and I do not think
    RAs code of conduct would get rid of it either.

    So I think there is a legal question as to whether telling Folau not to post any non-inclusive things online breaches his freedom of religion.

    If so, and if Izzy pursues it, I imagine RA will have to pay him a large amount. But I would have thought this an unlikely outcome. I don’t think the clause infringed on his freedom of religion so I think RA are probably safe.

    I’m now hoping Tom Banks finds some form. Naivalu, Banks, Hodge and DHP fighting for back 3 spots. Maddocks an outside chance too. Although Cheika will probably opt for AAC…

    • IIPA

      I’m almost certain he wants to get sacked. I mean he can’t be that naive.

      RA can’t contract away his right to freedom of religion but this isn’t about freedom of religion it’s about freedom to post whatever he likes on social media. You sign a million dollar a year contract you need to toe the party line.

      • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

        I did see some people wondering whether he wanted to take up a deal with Toulon.

        He might want to get sacked but still get paid out for it.

        The outcome will be interesting. But it does seem intentional, as you say.

      • Andy

        Agree. Even though he is clearly not the smartest fella the grace the world I’m not convinced he didn’t know what would come of this.

        Which leads me to believe he knows he can get something at least as good somewhere else.

      • Fatflanker

        Yeah, when was the last time your wife let you walk away from a multi-million dollar contract without at least thinking it through, eh? He may be a simple bloke but he knows what he’s doing.

        • Singapore Sling

          Have just looked at his Instagram. I think the poor bloke may actually be insane. One of his posts was condemning the wealthy so walking away from money could be his way of confirming his beliefs to his disciples.

        • Huw Tindall

          Dare say old mate is donating a good chunk of his money to his church!

    • Gottsy

      I recently finished up working on the new Tottenham Hotspur stadium in London. I signed an NDA when I started, saying that I would keep photos off social media, and if I breached that I would be sacked. They weren’t taking away my right to post anything, but it was part of the contract that I agreed to in order to manage my part of the project. I always had the right to post pictures, but I knew that in doing so, I would forfeit the right to work on the project. It really wasn’t that hard to understand when taken in context. Izzy was still free to post whatever shit he likes, but in doing so would be in breach of the code of conduct, so will therefore forfeit the right to play for ARU affiliated teams. It sucks that it came down to this, but I can see where they are coming from. I just wish he wasn’t so fkn dumb

      • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

        But the potential difference is that you don’t have a legal right to post on social media.

        However, you do have a legal right to freedom of religion.

        If RA had made Folau sign a contract that said he couldn’t post anything on social media then there would be no question that they could tear up his contract without having to pay him out.

        However, the question is whether the specific way this was worded infringed his freedom of religion. I imagine RA would have sought legal advice to ensure that it most likely wouldn’t though.

        • Gottsy

          Yeah I get what you mean.
          Basically if he signs the contract and agrees to adhere to the terms outlined in the code of conduct, that’s binding, without any legal challenge to that then it stands. Will be interesting to see what happens next, either way though it’s incredibly sad that it’s come to this isn’t it

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          Yeah, but it’s not like he wasn’t given plenty of chances. In the end, he left RA no choice.

        • Gottsy

          Yep, unfortunately so mate

        • onlinesideline

          Or RA left themselves no choice. Izzy should be allowed to say what ever he feels like (barring his speech falling within crime) These new restraints are part of a strategy that will never ever work.

          Lets just sit back and reflect what just happened here. One of our best players just got terminated for expressing a religuous belief. No matter whatever your worldview – Its just beyond words.

        • Andy

          Context context context

          Rugby has become, like most sports, a brand. That’s how Israel gets paid $1 mill a year. If you want the cash, you need to adhere to the policies set out by the people paying your wage. If you don’t like it, don’t sign the contract and play Park footy.

          Furthermore, No one is paying the Muslim chaps you speak of to represent their brand (that we know of). If one of those guys worked where I work, you could bet your bottom dollar he would have been marched the moment he entered back into the office. And that would apply to almost all workplaces with similar inclusion policies. And from what I read, it wasn’t considered “ok” as the guy who wrote that sign ended up in court.

        • onlinesideline

          You missed my point in first comment above then. I think Izzy should go, as in this instance he breached in full knowledge. Its the strategy and set of values IN the contract I think is so wrong. The values expressed in his contract should not restrain him from religious expression or any other kind of expression, just like the muslim guy ( as sick as it is) should be free to stand there with such a sign.

          Corps will forver be beholdened to someone in the rugby fraternity or wider society being offended about something leading to homogenous culture living in fear. Do you want that ? The offended will not have their agenda advanced by muzzling their opponents.

        • Andy

          Get the concern around PC brigade and people being easily offended. I have my own similar concerns as most in that space.

          It’s a hard one to find the right ground on especially in this case. Although I’m not offended by what he said I can understand why a young rugby player fan, being gay and being too scared to speak about it could be compromised by his comments. I spose you have to be in their shoes to understand…

        • onlinesideline

          I think there are many people who have experienced prejudice and are “comprimised” but realise that the bigots view is the bigots weakness and their problem. It shouldnt affect the bigotee (haha). Thats the whole point. Corporations are emboldening bigots and devaluing the bigotees by suggesting the bigots have an influence so much so they need to muzzle the bigot because the bigotee is so vunerable. Thats not a victory, Enabling a marketplace of ideas to flourish no matter how grimey the debate becomes is the only healthy society. Let the bigot and bigotee equally air. People will decide for themselves what they prefer.

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          Muslims in Sydney do not represent RA and are not responsible for the coverage of the sport in the media and for ensuring sponsors do not pull out.

          I’m sure if any Muslim employee of RA did what you say, they’d be fired like Folau.

          Whatever I may personally think about your opinion, it is inarguably ignoring the economic realities of the situation.

        • Brisneyland Local

          This is RA, I wouldnt be so sure there. they were so desperate to sign Cheika that got backed into a corner that had them having no performance clause in a contract. WTF

        • Funk

          Maybe RA’s contracts’ lawyer got the job due to his “old boy” affiliation rather than actual competency???

        • Brisneyland Local

          That is probably a fair guess.

        • Parker

          Are you saying the use of social media platforms is essential to Izzy’s freedom to hold religious beliefs? I think we have to observe the very clear distinction between the liberty to have your own religious belief and the imposition of those beliefs on others who believe differently. No where has Izzy been denied the liberty of religious belief and practice. His transgression lay in trying to tell others what they should believe, thus infringing on their right to belief. In so doing he ended up like that American tourist on the train in Sydney prosletyzing righteously and violating the rules of the rails.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP4w6hF50XM

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          Whether you like it or not, there is a difference between telling you others what you think they should believe, and imposing his beliefs on others.

          Imposing beliefs on others is what happens in Islamist countries, where the state’s interpretation of Islamic law becomes state law.

          There is a crucial difference between that and what Folau did. Folau just voiced his interpretation and didn’t enforce it on anyone.

        • Huw Tindall

          Read something interesting from RUPA which basically said any additional clauses in a contract beyond the collective bargaining agreement can only be to the benefit of the player. So essentially Izzy’s contract has the same T&Cs as Michael Hooper’s unless you can argue a restrictive clause is a benefit to the player in question. It’s probably the old lawyer in me coming out but I’m really curious to see how this plays out contractually. Izzy could be the highest paid player not at RWC!

      • Keith Butler

        Very well put Gottsy. Your last sentance summed it up perfectly.

      • Anonymous bloke

        There also is no broad legal right to freedom of religion. There’s various laws which prohibit discrimination based on religion, and which entitle someone to express their beliefs. That doesn’t mean you can do it contrary to your employment contract.

        • Gottsy

          Yeah exactly. It’s a bit like when people talk about freedom of speech- it’s not absolute. If so, things like libel, copyright, nda’s, slander, etc would all be violating human rights. It will save him from persecution, not breach of contract

      • Keith Butler

        Not quite the same but it reminds me of the recent case here in Tassie where an employee of Cricket Australia was sacked for breach of contract for using social media to criticise the Tasmanian governments stance on abortion – she was forced to travel to Victoria for the procedure. The matter was settled out of court. Could this be heading in the same dir3ction?

      • NSWelsham in London

        went past it on the train last night… cracking job, looks fantastic.

        • Gottsy

          Haha thanks mate, it’s an amazing stadium

      • Huw Tindall

        Code of conduct breaches aren’t that black and white though. He didn’t exactly repost the Brunei government’s stance on stoning homosexuals to death. Think RA could have a hard time summarily sacking him without even a fine or suspension first.

        • Gottsy

          Yeah mate absolutely. I think the RA is going to have a really hard time with this either way, especially as it potentially sets a pretty dangerous precedent

    • Parker

      You are able to practice whatever religion you want. That is your freedom. But you are not at liberty to impose your religious beliefs on others, which is what Folau’s damnation of rooters, drinkers et al amounts, despite the good intentions he believes he was exercising in giving us the warning. I believe religious freedom includes freedom to practice, and freedom from, religion.

      • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

        He didn’t ‘impose’ them though. He only voiced his beliefs.

        I don’t think it is as black or white legally as either side is making out, although I assume RA got legal advice saying they’re within their rights to do this.

        • Who?

          Your second paragraph here is really important. EVERYONE wants black and white. We all seem to think like two year olds. We want the benefit of the doubt for ourselves, but allow none of it for anyone else. We can’t imagine there’s grey anywhere else, that anyone else could hold complex views.
          Part of that is the problem of the social media generation, where 140/280 characters is apparently enough to explain everything, and if not, it’s enough to incite anything in response.
          .
          That black and white mentality is what incites mob mentality, whereby you’re either for us or against us, where you’re either a homophobe with that bigot Folau or you’re a cultural Marxist/Social Justice Warrior/bleeding heart progressive. When the reality is that I’d wager Folau’s not a bigot, he’s not intending to incite hatred, but at the same time I certainly would advocate that neither is he helping with his social media posts. So the best solution might be to remove the spotlight, but instead we magnify is 150 times over its existing coverage (i.e. from 150k odd Twitter followers to 20+ Million Aussies, then 5 Million Kiwis). We create the mob, we increase possible damage by exposing those who’d otherwise be unaware of the situation to that messaging (and by the time they see it, it’s further polarized). And we only further polarize the country, whilst vilifying someone (which is apparently the reason why the person being vilified should be vilified – because he perhaps unintentionally might’ve vilified someone else).
          .
          It’s insanity.
          .
          I do wish we’d all give each other the benefit of the doubt more often, and not see it as something that should be reserved only for ourselves.

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          I think Folau has been brainwashed.

          However, in terms of looking after the financial and reputational health of the sport, I don’t think he left RA any choice.

        • Who?

          I think it’ll be interesting to see how it all pans out. Because, if quoting the Bible is considered vilification, then all churches have serious questions over their very existence, and I’d expect the same would be true for the Muslim faith, and likely others, too.
          .
          I wish Folau hadn’t posted it, but it was bound that this sort of a test case would come up eventually. Just wish it hadn’t also impacted Rugby. Because now it’s rapidly going to fall into the hands of lawyers from corporations and special interest groups, pushing far beyond what I’d imagine Folau himself could’ve foreseen.
          .
          That said, I don’t consider his statements to be brainwashing. It’s what he learned growing up. He grew up Mormon in an Islander family. I can’t imagine that environment was anything other than very traditional. He’s no longer a Mormon, but he’s still in an Islander church – I can’t imagine that, socially, it’s not very traditional (not just in terms of religion, but in terms of ‘family values’). Many churches these days are much less focused on these things (look at the Uniting Church, which approved gay clergy 20 years ago), but the scriptures are still there. It’s hard to describe someone as brainwashed when you’re talking about them freely choosing their beliefs, beliefs that were undoubtedly inculcated from youth, but beliefs that aren’t without variation in other areas since youth.

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          “That said, I don’t consider his statements to be brainwashing. It’s what he learned growing up. He grew up Mormon in an Islander family. I can’t imagine that environment was anything other than very traditional.”

          Sounds like the definition of brainwashing to me.

          Equally, those who grew up in the Soviet Union were brainwashed with Soviet propaganda.

          It is important to note two things in reply to your comment:

          1. He did not quote the Bible.

          2. It isn’t really relevant what churches or mosques do, as they aren’t employees of RA, do not represent their brand and do not have the capacity to bring financial or repetitional harm on RA. It is literally irrelevant.

        • Who?

          Brainwashing, though, in my estimation (and it’s fine to see it a bit differently) is about choice. He’s been in the big wide world, away from his family (he lived in Melbourne with family in Qld, he played for the Broncos and was, by his own account, living a very different lifestyle to his family, he moved to GWS and found new influences), and he’s made choices. If you were in Soviet Russia, or North Korea, there was no choice, and there was no exposure to alternative thought patterns.
          .
          The other two points…
          .
          1. He did – as noted above, he quoted Galatians 5:19-21, the graphic was a direct quote from there and the full quote was under the graphic. So it’s direct quotation of scripture.
          .
          2. Agree that they’re not relevant as employees of RA, but it’s relevant to the definition of vilification. If quoting the Bible (or the Qu’ran, or whatever else) is vilification, then churches, mosques, and the like are open to constant suit for vilification by anyone who decides they want to try it on. So there’d be plenty of people – especially in the climate of an election – who’d love to have that debate, and even take it to court (though I don’t think it’d help them with an election, because Christians vote across the spectrum. I don’t know enough Muslims to comment on their voting habits). If it’s not vilification to quote scripture, then Folau hasn’t broken his contract (and that’s without considering whether or not the clause is valid according to the RUPA EBA, etc).

        • From what the NZ media is publishing on the matter, this particular case seems pretty black and white. After his last post, last year, he was given a formal warning not to do it again. He is a high profile employee of RA and the Tahs, and is expected to uphold their codes of conduct in his public postings. I’m pretty sure everyone has something similar when they post in an official capacity, using their work email and so on.

          The difference for a celebrity and employee like Izzy is that he has a “I’m the famous rugby player” social media presence and if he posts to that, he’s regarded as posting as an employee, whereas if most of us post here, or to our personal twitter or whatever our employers mostly don’t care.

          But as soon as he was formally warned and did it again… well if that warning was “do this again and you’re fired” he’s basically made it absolutely black and white.

          If I was warned for turning up to work drunk, formally warned if I did it again I’d be sacked, rolled in drunk again. “There’s door Eloise…” and no argument.

          This isn’t about freedom of religion, freedom of expression, it’s about breach of contract and ignoring his formal warning, or that’s how it’s being presented elsewhere.

          Others might think the first warning should not have been given, that’s a different matter. Personally I think if you work for a company that has radically different political/religious views to you – and Izzy is entitled to think a whole host of people will go to Hell but RA is equally entitled to say it is an inclusive organisation and wants to support and encourage LGBTQIA+ players, referees and coaches and doesn’t tolerate discrimination on the basis of gender, sexual identity or sexuality in any form – then you’ve got an issue. You either shut up, or ultimately you’re going to get sacked if you keep publicly speaking out against the organisation and it’s policies.

        • Who?

          Don’t forget, though, when reading the Kiwi media, that they’re all saints over there, with no concept of sin, and they are morally superior to us in every way…
          .
          Not saying Folau was wise to make the post… No winners from it – not the LGBTIQ community, not his church, no one.
          .
          And I think there’s a real chance that this could get massively out of hand and become a test case that could go absolutely anywhere in the courts, because if quoting a piece of (unedited) scripture can be considered vilification, then it raises the question whether religions are actually able to exist in Australia… Because I’m confident that the Bible won’t be the only holy book with such passages.

        • If they’re right – and I don’t know the details of his contract or his disciplinary action – it’s just not about the bible, or any other religious texts – the legal action is about breaking his previous agreed disciplinary agreement.

          Someone else has pointed out as an Australian citizen, Izzy isn’t entitled to an absolute right to Freedom of Speech or Freedom of Religion. Even in America, where those things are kind of stated, they’re pretty widely misunderstood if you talk to a constitutional lawyer. Which I’m not, not even on this side of the pond. But Freedom of Speech in America enshrines your right to criticise the government, not to actually say absolutely anything, although it’s often presented that way. But call a prominent politician a child molester and see how long it takes before your freedom of speech is impinged with a large fine…

        • Who?

          I’m not arguing that he shouldn’t have posted, that it isn’t a possible breach of his contract (given he’s not singled out a single group, and he’s directly quoted the Bible, I think there’s likely room for legal argument there). Just pointing out that the Kiwi press love any chance they can get to pile on, especially on something where they consider themselves progressive and moral leaders.
          .
          Shorten and the mainstream media have done the same thing, immediately describing a Biblical passage as clear homophobia and vilification. I’m really starting to worry this is going to go nuclear and the lawyers are going to take it miles.

        • I agree they will try to pile on. It really all hangs on exactly happened last time he posted something like this.

          And you could be right, it could go nuclear.

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          He didn’t quote the Bible and the fact that he singled out multiple groups does not mean that he did not single out single groups.

          The best legal argument that I can see is that the terms of his contract, should it actually exist, infringes on his legal right to freedom of religion, in which case that clause would probably be considered invalid.

          RA should have put in a clause saying that he couldn’t use social media at all. In that case, the freedom of religion argument probably wouldn’t come up at all, as he wouldn’t be getting his contract terminated for espousing a religious viewpoint, but for using a piece of technology he was forbidden from using.

        • Who?

          But he did directly quote the Bible. If you look at the post, it’s a direct quote from Galatians 5:19-21, which is also in the post.
          .
          I think you’re right about his method of getting around it, legally. That the clause is invalid. But that doesn’t mean others won’t look to test the question of whether or not directly quoting from a religion’s scripture is considered vilification in the courts. That was whispered all round the shop when it happened last year.
          .
          Fair point about RA putting in a clause about not using social media, but even that might be contestable, given it’s not a benefit to the player (and the posts about noting that all clauses beyond the EBA have to be in favour of the player), and given RA still does gain benefit from his social media presence, about 350 days a year.

  • IIPA

    By the way great to see that young gun Courtney Hodder from WA back on the field. A joy to watch.

    • andrewM

      Back in WA or over in Queensland IIPA?

  • onlinesideline

    This episode is more about the hold the Mob has on society (corporations and individuals) than Izzy’s individual contract breach. No-one can deny he breached and he has to go from a contractual POV.

    But for me the real discussion is the strategy corporations are being bulled into. They are scared of mob attack and have consequently created new and exhaustive rules for their employees and for themselves as employers designed to avoid social media backlash. There’s ONE problem. THEY CAN NEVER WIN.

    WHY ? – thats easy. From te moment you come into this world you are bombarded with a million different views, egos, beliefs, credes, philiospjies, preferences. THATS LIFE. If every person on the planet cannot handle this reality then everyone is going to be perpetually “offended” Whatsmore, is beng offended such a damaging thing ?

    As an example here, we have RA satisfying the gay community but at the same time putting out the pro-Christian, Izzy loving, Pacific nation contingent (and maybe white christians too).

    And whats even worse, is that IMO, the pressure didnt come from gay rugby supporters but from the wider gay community or secular progressives who HAVE NOTHING TO DO with rugby. In other words, all minorities, or groups demanding social justice can point their finger at everything and everyone regardless of their true connection and DEMAND action furthuring THEIR specific agenda. Accordingly corporations have had to widen their set of values to accomodate virtually every person on the planet in fear of mob attack. In order to achive this corporations are sterilizing society out of fear with a strategy that will never work.You CANT SATISFY EVERYONE – its always, by virtue of a multitude of beliefs out there,an unwinnable strategy.

    The old system of corporations being distant and removed from the marketplace of ideas and letting offenders offend and the offended bite back is the only way.

    Furthurmore, this idea of consumers demanding of corporations a certain standard is just a tool used, where by they feign being offended to furthur their agenda. Dont tell me all consumers are SUCH GOOD PEOPLE, sooooo virtuous their ethical demands come from a pure place. Rubbish. Each sub group of consumer are feigning being offended to shape life in their image.

    What Izzy did, spoke about, is irrelevant as its subjective. It was a viewpoint. Period. The gay suicide argument is weak. One could also argue that rugby in general pressures young kids to live up to an image of being more athletic and tougher than they really are, casuing depression and sometimes ending up in a wheel chair. Where does the blame end if you apply this cause and effect argument ? Is Rugby responsible for that ?

    The reality is mob attack is cultural marxism 101. Using the tool of cultural manipulation ie censuring expression of ideas based on how “offended” you are, can never be justified. The idiocy here is a situation where RA allowed their accountability on social issues. In other words they, out of pure fear (like all corps now) have been forced to create a “set of values” and create workplace policy accordingly. They dont truly belive in these values, they are just scared.

    A corporation has to stand up and distant themsleves from the mob by saying, we cant please everyone. With every appeased person there will be an opposite view and they will be offended. If someone doesnt do this we are on a really slippery slope.

    Izzy was airing his religious view. If some people disagree FOR WHATEVER REASONS (im not getting into bible criticism debate) so be it. It has nothing to do with modernity, or metaphor, or tolerance. Its a viewpoint – his viewpoint. Thats it. While he was a fool to test Castle, considering last years episode and deserves to go, what I saying is we need Corporations to redefientheir relationship with wider sciety and stop withe the virtue signalling. It was destroy our metal health !

    • Mitch Leach

      Great post. Have a listen to some of Ricky Gervais’ recent podcasting. He paints the same broad strokes as you do onlinesideline.

      Just because you are OFFENDED, doesn’t mean you are RIGHT. I’m not going to get into the nitty gritty of Izzy’s actions, I prefer the angle you have taken, commenting on the general trend our culture is taking, towards the eternally offended, squeekiest-wheel-gets-the-most-oil reactive society.

    • Sevenwithasixonmyback

      Precisely.
      I do wonder, though, given Israel’s previous run-in with the Board, what he was thinking as he prepared that post and why he went ahead and posted it. Does he secretly drink?
      No-one in their right mind actually seeks sacking – especially coming up to the greatest tournament in the sport.
      But your point is certainly valid and indicative of modern corporate and societal practice. Political correctness drives everything today. Mitch Leach’s mention of Ricky Gervais is noteworthy. No-one offends so successfully as Gervais, yet he is most often lauded for his opinions. Key word there… Opinion. We are all entitled to one. Everyone’s opinion – if thoughtfully considered – is valid. If you don’t think likewise or find offense, that then is your opinion and if you thoughtfully considered my opinion in order to come to yours, then your opinion of my opinion is valid, too. That doesn’t make either of us bastards or criminals. Nor either of us right or wrong (though perhaps one of us is).
      Society is driven by the fear of offending. There are far too many things to take offense to out there that it’s a full-time job just trying not to piss someone off. And people make a living working full-time looking for things that piss people off. It has become a self-perpetuating industry in itself.
      Get pissed off, people, and deal with it.
      Move on.

      Fullback and Wing positions… Opinions please.

      • onlinesideline

        Banks Bank Banks

        While I think he should be alllowed to express, why he feels the need to express is the question as you say – especially as he would know whats up / consequences. Just like new wealth doesnt change you, it amplifies you, spirituality can also amplify existing ills within.Additionally, if the wrong message of religious dogmatism is being taught in Izzy’s case, its a real problem. Maybe he is being surrounded by the wrong kind of religious fervour, where the Man to G-d relationship is taking precedence over the more important man to man civilty and decency. Considering the Bible is replete with this latter message, Izzy case points to some bad guidance in my opinion. This kind of behavour is not spirituality.

        • Huw Tindall

          Did the papal twitter account give Izzy a like?

          I wouldn’t be so quick to install Banks at 15. A lot to like about Hodge after his recent runs at the Rebs. Better defender, positional play, and kicking game then Folau and Banks IMO.

        • onlinesideline

          yeah I dig Reece alot too – hes a points magnet

      • Mitch Leach

        “people make a living working full-tme looking for things that piss people off” i.e. 21st journos! ha!

        No, but really, those lazy journos who’s only research involves trawling Twitter for 2 or 3 tweets to inbed in their article are just as much to blame for this sort of mess. Piss twitter off, and 99% of these f**king problems go away.

      • donktec

        Agree everyone is entitled to opinions, but i’m jack of people spouting opinions imagining they are facts when they are often ill informed nonsense (or at the least, just a sliver of reality seen from a narrow point of view). “if thoughtfully considered” is important here, people have to be open to other points of view and even facts that contradict their current opinions.

        And yeah, there are sections of the medjia that thrives on outrage, and encourages (confects perhaps) outrage and as a consequence dimishes the space for discussion, conversation and exchange of ideas. This is a great loss, i suspect pretty much everyone here can agree (or maybe not!) that the overall level of public discource in Oz has sunk low low low. We can debate for ages the causes, but one of the main attractions of the comments on this site is that – by and large – opinions are well considered, differences are accepted, points of view are exchanged.

        ok, i have found a random point in the exchange to drop a comment just to get some thoughts down!

    • Damo19

      Very insightful comment Onside. It all kind of makes me think of some lines from a very well known musical:
      “Why’d you choose such a backward time in such a strange land
      If you’d come today you could have reached the whole nation
      Israel 4BC had no mass communication”
      Not so many years ago Folau’s position on just about anything apart from what he does on field would have been obscure and the subject of dinner party rumours. Nothing for anyone, minorities or corporations, to get uptight about. Now with the internet and social media, every utterance or occurrence “escalates quickly”. Say something, do something and the reaction is instant and wide reaching. The big stakeholders believe they need to respond and defend when the impact is in their space.
      This is just a sportsman making a comment and look what happens. It all can’t be heading anywhere good. Sometimes it seems like society is being run by algorithms. Something needs to change.
      Unfortunately for Izzy, right now it is what it is, and he is about to feel the consequences.

    • Peter Morse

      Yep, absolutely spot on. Brilliant in fact.

    • Fatflanker

      That is a very fair point concerning rugby (sport) potentially pressuring kids to live up to an image.

    • Keith Butler

      A nicely crafted post which I mostly agree with. I can’t say that I agree with your proposition of letting offenders offend. These guys are professional athletes who many see as role models. I would draw a big red line at the behaviour of NRL players for example simulating having sex with dogs and the cases we have seen of physical abuse of partners.

      • onlinesideline

        But I do distinguish betweem bad behavour and the right to express. I couldnt agree more re bad behavour. But you cant put expressing a religious belief and bad behavour in same breath.

    • Gary J Campbell

      Folau last weekend broke the record for Super Rugby tries. Then this crap from him. Have to ask why.

      He expected people to be offended – given it was bigoted fundamentalist bullshit that is hardly surprising. I dare say he has an agenda other than ‘religion’.

      As for the PI communities odds on they have been invaded by happy clappy ‘missionaries’ from the US who promote their intolerant brand of fundamentalist intolerant ‘religion’. Sad, but they can keep their bigotry to Themistocles – this brand of religious intolerance does not define Christians, and I would hope it does not define the PI communities. It is does, then they have a problem.

      However, it pains me to see right wing buzzwords like ‘cultural marxism’ – a totally meaningless term coined by right-wing zealots thrown about. People have become more sensitive to these issues and permission to be a public bigot has been reigned in. Get over it.

      • onlinesideline

        But the point is who are you to say “what defines Christians” FOR EVERYONE. You can believe what you want and Izzy should be free to believe and express what he believes. You say he is bigoted, some agree, some dont. The point is he should be free to express. You seem to have missed my point.

        Reigning in people’s right to express what some opine to be bigoted is intolerant. Do you not get you are preaching the very intolerance you are protesting against ?

        Further, this new modern day “sensitivity” you refer to, is just more intolerance hiding behind the thin veil of being “offended”. its classic perpertrator inversion. The so called sensistive need to stop feigning being offended to furthur their intolerance.

      • Andrew Luscombe

        “Bigot” is in the eye of the beholder, and it’s just another word for throwing about. Other people see him as trying to warn people of a poor outcome at the end of their lives if they don’t change tack. That’s not excluding, vilifying, or discriminating against anyone. It’s clearly what is motivating him. Ignoring it is the appropriate response.

        So many media stories say that his statements are damaging, but they still publish them anyway. Suicide stories are not reported because they are damaging. If Izzy’s vews are damaging, then a media storm about them is the thing doing 99.9% of the damage. It’s pure profit driven hypocrisy on the part of media outlets.

    • Brendan Hume

      I dunno. I get your point and I think it’s super interesting – there’s a lot of philosophical debate about the tolerance of intolerance, and how much we should tolerate views that we disagree with.

      For me – I don’t agree with the Westboro Baptist Church and their hateful messages, but I’m not going to get all twisted up because they think “God Hates Fags”. I sure as fuck wouldn’t employ one of the cunts though, because our beliefs are in too much opposition. RA has just acknowledged this about Israel – everyone knew what he thought, but until he’s on a street corner with a sign (or the equivalent) no one will take him to task.

    • Andrew Luscombe

      Well said. The media makes money from these mob events. We have a global industry of highly trained professional false impression givers cherry picking whatever bits of info suits the story (and they are stories) distorting nearly everything to get web site hits. Public discourse by misinformation, exaggeration and attack mobs. It’s having adverse impacts way way beyond anything to do with Israel Folau.

    • BigNickHartman

      a lot of this chat about how the past used to be, and how corporations used to act, for me shows a total misunderstanding of what’s going on.

      rugby used to be for amateurs, but has opened up to professionalism (many reasons why lead to the benefits of capitalism). the fact is that capitalism is low-risk, so the ARU, which is being pressured by fellow low riskers to lower their risk (ie cut Folau), cut Folau. capitalism is the logic of our times, there is no doubt about that.

      also whats changed is the attitude towards gay people. you plop for ‘THE MOB’ when i think you can just look around here or talk to rugby followers who aren’t baying for Israel’s blood but just don’t think what he said is cricket – read Greg Growden’s argument for instance. that general “yikes” comes through, not as outrage but just as a huge “your mate?”

      a smart man, i think it was plato, said the sign of intelligence is to be able to entertain an argument, but not necessarily agree with it. I think in that sense, you should be able to understand the (cultural) logic of sacking Folau. maybe it’s just another era?

      on top of that you dismiss an argument without any back up. The gay suicide argument is weak you say. Let’s pretend it is strong – i.e. that public figures saying stuff like Folau does increases the risk of self-harm. If this was the case – I’m not sure, I have no idea – i definitely think there’d be a strong utilitarian case to be made for shutting up Folau.

      When you dismissed this argument with no reasoning, your rant for me turned into a whinge. I’m concerned too over the de-platforming and pressure to publically conform too, but you’re shooting at all the token targets (the MOB, for instance) even after you agree that it was probably justifiable in your first sentence.

      But just to think, Israel could have still said stuff like “im not all for same sex marriage” or “sinners must repent”. He would have been fine, and then could go full Margaret Court afterwards

      • Andrew Luscombe

        If Folau’s post does real harm, why don’t they treat it like reporting suicide – i.e. not report it at all, or at least not reprint the supposedly most harmful bits. Any harm done has been smplified 100x or more by the people who are claiming to be so outraged by the damage he is doing. It’s farcical.

      • onlinesideline

        I dismissed the argument because I reasoned it was a weak argument. To some, Izzys opinion may in fact have saved lives. There may be people out there that in fact had suicidal ideation but read Izzys post and thought that indeed he is correct and altered their behavour to what ‘they consider’ a better path. Its subjective. There is 2 sides.

    • Hoss

      Bout time you showed up.

      • onlinesideline

        ha – how are you mate ? – you.ve been in outstanding form of late I see.

        • Hoss

          Alright mate. Sad about the current events. Nobody wins in all this and we are all the poorer for events of past 48hours. Referenced you last week and asked if anyone had heard from you.

          You still chasing dusky haired beauties in Budapest ?

        • onlinesideline

          yeah still here mate and still under the Hungarian spell, which I kid you not is justifibly renewed about every 3rd head turn. There are no words.

          Yep sad but an opportunity nonetheless. I’ll be 100% honest, Im not a fan of izzy in the Wallas. We need less eccentricity and more balance. We are just too weird and until we revert back to normality its too sapping. I see a whole bunch of players staying on the fringe again come October. I hope Scott Johnstone and Oconnor produce the requisite balls needed to recapture some Roger Gould / John Eales type sanity in our side – case in point, 1 x Luke Jones. If he is fringed in favour of the Pooper I really give up. Im pacing my online self – will be a long season.

    • Huw Tindall

      Off the long run for the first post of the year mate! Your hammies OK?

      Whole thing is a shit show and a great little microcosm style case study of how complex society is today.

      I guess in Folau’s eyes he is being compassionate by offering people he thinks are living in sin a form of forgiveness. It’s a very in your face offer of forgiveness though!

      I’m actually curious to see just how easy it is to sack him. Reckon RA will end up paying him $4m to attend church for the next 4 years if their track record of good governance is anything to go by.

  • Brisneyland Local

    Well GAGR’s it has started to sink in, and I for one must say I am a tad disappointed. Other than Hoss, no one has really spoken up for all of us others that have been slighted. Now don’t get me wrong, the slighting of homosexuals is appalling. But I am a drunkard and a fornicator! I have been slighted too. I don’t hear any one (other than Hoss) leaping to my, and I am sure many other GAGR’s defence. Just disappointing really. It is all about religion this, and homosexuals that! What about us tipplers and rooters! Nothing Nada! It just saddens me, the majority get left out yet again!
    What do we have to do, create a “Coalition of the drunk and Horny” to get any attention!
    Alas, over to rugby issues.
    – SO who is our Fullback then? Sauce ? Hodge? It better not be Gilbert because he is shit!
    – With the money freed up from a potential contract termination, lets split that money and do what we can to keep Genia and Kerevi in the game in Aus.
    – It was interesting to hear many ex-Wallabies say that with out Folau we cant win the world cup. Gee they are a positive bunch. I would say even with him we couldn’t win the world cup whilst Cheika the Ass Clown is in charge.
    – Come to think of it, now we have some extra cash lets use that to pay out Cheika and bring some one else in for the world cup!
    Anyway, the Rebs against the Stormers. Am looking forward to that.
    Over to you GAGR’s!

    • Keith Butler

      Not quite up to Hoss’s epic yesterday but getting there. Speaking as a fornicator and drunkard myself can I just point out that in defending our breed we are also defending Barnaby Joyce or any other LNP politician. Do you want to set that precedent?

      • Brisneyland Local

        I am happy to back drunkards and fornicators of any political persuasion. I am apolitical! Ecumenical, and solution agnostic! ;-)

      • Nutta

        I think being a drunkard and fornicator is becoming the new #metoo#…?

      • Greg

        @kb There is fornication and then there is fornication on an industrial scale. I am not sure that we are up – so to speak – with Barnyard at this stage.

    • Funk

      I can understand why RA is offended, due to them being a bunch of thieving bastards…they have recently robbed me of my sense of humour, they have stolen away my will to live (at times), they have robbed WA of a super rugby franchise and taken away (without asking) a once fantastic rugby team from a our nation!

      • Brisneyland Local

        Cant disagree with that. There definitely is a special place reserved in hell for those from RA.
        Spoken as a true Agnostic!

    • Big Ted

      Love it BL. I too am a fornicator and drunkard. As I age, I seem to unfortunately be more of the latter and less of the former…

      My backline sans Stoopid would be:

      9 – Genia
      10 – Cooper
      12 – Meakes (keep a functioning and effective Axis working together)

      13 – Kerevi (would combine well with Meakes IMHO)

      11 – Naivalu (on current form and pace)
      14 – Maddocks (good all round player who has a knack for being in right place at right time)
      15 – DHP

      Reserves:
      McDermott/Gordon (cover 9 and possible 11,14)
      Hodge (cover 11 – 15)
      Toomua (Cover 10 and 12 – and less likely to miss a match defining tackle than Beale)

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        I like that backline

        • Dylan Langes

          I also like that backline. There’s a shocking and positively low number of sky blue players there

        • Mitch Leach

          Coming from a Tahs fan, believe me, I’d prefer even less. The only one I would have close to the 23 would be Gordon, but he is in a nice battle with BolterDermott.

        • Dylan Langes

          i am not a tahs fan but I agree with you. You can’t risk two “bolsters” in Gordon and McDermott but it would be better than Phipps. Also the only other back I would take form the tahs is Hunt. He does offer something, like not running sideways and making everyone else look bad. But let’s be honest here. Cheika will still go Phipps, Foley, Beale, Hunt, AAC and I bet he’s trying to still get Izzy.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Mate Hunt was crap against Auckland. I like him but I think he’s still got a lot to learn about the 12 so that he’s more instinctive in his play. In the weekend he was almost like the son of Beale running sideways and missing tackles

        • Dylan Langes

          Since its Game of Thrones round this weekend you have Karmichael son of Kurtley of House Beale our words are “run sideways”

        • Big Ted

          Always knew you had good taste KRL

      • Brisneyland Local

        Yeah that works for me.
        the only difference in my mind is Kerevi I see more as a 12. But I like it!

      • Sam

        I like it too. I must say I was a bit of a Quade basher in the past – this year he has proved me wrong (mostly)…. The only one I’m not entirely confident to put in a test is Maddocks – great attacker but a liability in defense but in saying that I’m not sure any other wingers have been a whole lot better – Maybe Beale -then he can only crab one way -haha!

      • Greg

        That works for me.

        The only person missing is Hooper at 11 or 14!

        Seriously though, Gibson seems to have focused him more in tight. It will be interesting to see what happens in gold.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      I feel slighted but being a Kiwi in Australia on a rugby social media page, it’s just part of my life. Despite Folau’s tweet I still intend to fornicate and drink and if hell awaits me at least I’ll be in good company.

      Go the Rebels

      • Brisneyland Local

        I am sure my friend that if he is correct then we will be in great company!
        Yep, I hope your Canes have a good one too!

        • Parker

          If he’s right, hell is where it’s happening. Prompts one to think that if that’s the case maybe we’re experiencing hell on earth and there’s no after life. So get it all done now.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yep! And hope for reincarnation!

    • Gottsy

      Mate I looked through izzy’s list and realised I was at least three of them, I just decided to keep my mouth shut in case he was right and I got struck down!
      For the fullback position though, I think it’s bullshit that we can’t win without him. We weren’t gonna win one with him either! Seeing Tom Banks turn and chase down Mo’unga on the weekend had me thinking- would Izzy have been able to catch him, and would he have been in a position to in the first place? Probably not. Maddocks is showing some excellent aerial skills and a penchant for sniffing out a 5 pointer. Hodge is a solid option and can kick goals from about 300m out, I reckon we’ll be right for back 3

      • Brisneyland Local

        Gottsy, I couldnt agree with you more. I think we have more than enough coverage. Whilst Folau was great at some things he was well below par in others. I think with those you have listed we have enough coverage. We will get where we get, but that will depend on the Ass Clowns plan now!

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Spot on mate. For all his brilliance in some areas he was lazy and very poor in others

        • Andy

          Agree. Add to his defence and kicking, his ability to kill an overlap.

          He will be missed no doubt but the rebels are showing you don’t need Folau in your team to play good attacking rugby.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Go the Johnny Rebs!

    • Brumby Runner

      On the ball again BL.

      Leaving aside the side issue, the real question to be answered is who will be the Wallaby No 15 for the RWC? I would accept either DHP or Hodge. Largely depends on the selections at wing. DHP has been favoured as a winger in recent times but he would be the more experienced player at 15. Otoh, Hodge covers plenty of the skills required of a 15, and I think he will ultimately make that his position.

      The idea of paying out Cheika is brilliant. The pity is that it won’t happen.

      • Brisneyland Local

        Yeah it is a pity!

    • Happyman

      I am also prepared to join the coalition of the drunk and horny.

      On a side note how lucky would Scott Johnson feel. From a business perspective he has joined an organisation that has had a overpriced contract on an ageing player that he gets to terminate and spend the cash on younger talent with more upside. He also gets to put a behavioural stake in the ground that will keep some of the more entitled guys in line. win win

      I am one of the few to state that Ixxy was a great athlete probably one of the best to every play the game but not a very good rugby player. (Think Greg Norman at his prime the best golfer with the course management of a 27 handicapper)

      • Brisneyland Local

        Great analogy! NOw all Scott Johnson has to do, is see of Cheika the Ass Clown!

        • Happyman

          Imagine the first selection meeting with MC SJ and MOC now that you could sell tickets too.

          Minutes wil reflect this.
          MC “Mate I want to pick Beale, Foley, Hooper, Hannigan and Simmons”
          SJ “Micheal when you picked them to play against Scotland we used to have a party to celebrate.”
          MC “but they have done a job for me before and they are Tahs”
          SJ “Micheal you had a 50% win rate last year”

        • Brisneyland Local

          I think if Fox really wanted to have high ratings they should live cast that meeting. I would certainly pay money to see that!

        • Funk

          Sorry to be a pedant, but Cheik’s win rate last year was 30.8%

        • Happyman

          Pedant away This is the internet so exaggeration is allowed.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Off

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yep am having a bad typing day!

    • Parker

      I really like the way you’re thinking about paying out Cheika’s contract with the Fired Folau dividend.

      • Brisneyland Local

        The best laid plans of mice and men!

    • Fatflanker

      Yeah, how convenient…we’ve lost Folau so the pressure on the coach and RA is off for the RWC…can’t possibly win it now, even with a FB that can kick.

      • Brisneyland Local

        No excuses for them. We dont even have an attack / backs coach!

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Those ex-wallabies moaning about the chances being shit now Folau is gone really have their heads up their arse. They spent so much time blowing smoke up his arse he never felt he needed to improve. If the Wallabies were relying on Folau to win the RWC they were already fucked.

      I read today Mortlock came out and said the chances have improved which is a nice contrast and seeing as he was always a much better player than any of those muppets I’ll take his view on it.

      • Brisneyland Local

        I think our chances havnt changed. we werent going to win it before, we arent going to win it now!.

      • Geoffro

        Go Stirling.Sounds like his no nonsense playing style has carried over

    • disqus_NMX

      There’s some quite funny comments on Izzy’s Insta posts at the moment https://www.instagram.com/izzyfolau

    • GeorgiaSatellite
      • Brisneyland Local

        Got to love the Advocate.

    • NSWelsham in London

      Only commenting on the rugby section here, the other stuff ill leave for the trolls..
      The ex wallabies saying we can only win with him is a completely ridiculous statement. Yes, its going to be an incredibly hard uphill battle to lift the trophy and yes izzy may have made a difference with a couple of tries from the highball and sucking a few defenders in but it stops there. The guy cant pass and cant kick. I was lucky enough to play with a future wallaby back in the U13’s/14’s who was twice as big as the net guy and would score tries only when we needed to win (he wanted to let us play as well) and that totally impacted us as a team as we began to rely on him and the moves around him to play.When we got to U15’s we lost alot of games as he was the same size as everyone else so we as a team had to adapt as did the star, adapt we did and we went onto more winning ways in the latter part of that season and for the future seasons. Move to the wallabies and its been the same thing for years. However, this season and last has shown we have other damaging ball runners in the backline who will suck in opponents, we have excellent fullbacks who can kick and pass and JUMP even. Him being removed from the setup will only allow the others in the team to excel in the given spots and make our backline that much more explosive.

      that is, if the right people are selected…………………..

      • Brisneyland Local

        NSW and that is the million dollar statement right there. “If the right people are selected!”

    • Huw Tindall

      That’s the funny part – by implication and omission RA logically supports sending everyone else on Izzy’s list to he’ll unless they repent. Thus logically RA supports a religious based interpretation of sin and implicitly believes in hell. I knew Clyne was an asshat but didn’t think he was the devil.

      • Brisneyland Local

        He cant be the devil because I have held that position for decades.

        • Huw Tindall

          I’ll let you know when I’m on my way if you wouldn’t mind having an ice cold beer ready for me when I arrive. I understand it’s a bit hot.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Dont worry I have my slaves and minions getting ice. It may be hell, but alas it is civilised!

  • Kiwi rugby lover

    Thanks Sully,
    Go the girls, I really enjoyed watching them before the games last year and it’s great to see that continue.

    What a great story about Davey Bell. I hope I can still run around at that age, maybe I can go for the worlds oldest referee.

    I can see the reasoning behind Thorn being resigned and aligning it with his assistants as it means any changes can be as big or small as you want. I still think the biggest issue with Thorn is that he was brought on far too early. I think he may be a very good coach one day but he lacks experience and really needed time at lower levels learning how to coach rather than the game and also a few years under a good mentor as an assistant before becoming the head coach of the Reds. I hope the sounds of discontent coming out of the Reds are only grumbles as I do think he’s getting a good team together

    • Happyman

      Agree mate go the Girls they are improving out of site.

      I hope I can just walk at that age.

      I agree re Thorn the Reds have put a great team behind him so at least they are setting him up for success.not failure. The discontent is real many players do not like him but they do seem to be playing for him. I think if they have some success later in the season the sounds of discontent will die down. Hopefully they can keep Kerevi as he is the class that could help drive success in the next five years.

  • Mishad

    Well that sucks. The only consolation is that when I used to see Banks on fire for the Brumbies I wished we didn’t have Folau so Banks could do his stuff on the international stage. Now we’ll most likely get that chance.

    • Fatflanker

      We never used Folau to his potential for some reason – other men like Banks will step up.

  • andrewM

    I wonder if Izzy has been having talks with a NH club and this was a nice easy way out of his contract?

    • GeorgiaSatellite

      Maybe the NFL? He wouldn’t need to pass, kick or tackle for a start.

      • Huw Tindall

        A new play in the NFL with the special teams fake punt/bomb with Izzy taking the catch. He can be offside as much as he wants after the ball is out of the scrimmage!

        • Who?

          How does that work? If you kick and regather, it just means the other team take possession where you regather…

        • Huw Tindall

          Probably showing my NFL ignorance here. Assumed if you regather your own punt it counts just like any other play so would get over the 10 yards and restart the 4 plays (downs?).

        • Who?

          I used to think that… But no. If you claim the ball on a kick, it just stops forward progress. It means that, if the ball’s bouncing back towards the punter, you want to stop it (to stop losing yards). Conversely, if the punt goes into the end zone, the ball comes back to the 20 yard line for the other team to start their possession. So the ideal kick, you put it to a corner and your chase gets there to prevent it bouncing back or bouncing into the end zone. There was a kick last year where TWO Patriots chasers had to bat the ball backwards to prevent it going into the end zone… Their opponents got the ball for their first down on their 1 yard line. Worth looking up that one on YouTube – pretty impressive effort to what’s really a one percenter that made a HUGE difference for their team.
          .
          But otherwise, yeah, 4 downs to make 10 yards and reset the down counter. And every play is set piece. It’s crazy to think we get three games of NFL each week during the season in Australia on FTA, broadcast live, but we struggle to get all the Wallabies Tests live, and anything else (bar the welcome addition of GRR) is played on delay at weird times.

  • Greg

    Last comment from me on the Israel Folau story.

    Mr Folau believes he is trying to help people by pointing out their sins so that they can repent. This is his view and he has a right to put it forward.

    Through a friend I have a tiny bit of awareness of young people who are gay or trans. Some struggle enormously, are vulnerable and can be on the edge of life and death. They have not made a lifestyle choice. They are who they are. I am sure that other people here will be much better informed than me on how difficult this situation can be.

    Think of the potential consequences of Mr Folau’s comments on young, vulnerable people.

    Another question might be whether the level of coverage inthe media is responsible.

    • Who?

      All great questions Greg. Folau lost 2/3 of his followers on social media in the last year. And the vast majority of his posts seem to be religious in nature. So one would expect that most who still follow him know what they’re getting (i.e. I don’t imagine many people in his list of sinners are amongst the followers). But because of the story, instead of 150k people knowing about it, 20 million people know about it. It’s a question in a similar vein (but not exactly the same) as naming serial killers, showing footage of terrorist events (regardless of the perpetrators), etc.
      .
      And whilst at risk young people struggling with their sexuality aren’t helped by Folau’s posts, neither is his church…

  • juswal

    “There’s flat earther stupid, and then there’s anti-vaxers stupid. And then there throwing away a multi-million dollar contract posting preachy, talk down to ordinary folk memes on Instagram stupid.”

    And then there is re-signing Brad Thorn stupid.

    • Sadly re-signing Thorn may not make the top five stupid things the QRU can claim!

      • Brisneyland Local

        Yep re-signing WOody Graham has to top that list.
        The handling of QC would be second.
        Closely followed by Letting Genia go. But that would be a long and distinguished list. Worthy of a Uni students PHD.

        • juswal

          First draft of the post said something like ‘then there’s the Queensland Reds coach selection policy stupid’.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Gold

        • Bulldog Sing

          Wendell for 700k is my #1 QRU Stupid Things.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yeah have to admit that was pretty high the chain!

      • juswal

        Sorry mate. I know you’re a BT fan. I just can’t fathom why any club/franchise/nation would extend a coach’s contract before the team starts winning.

        • RugbyReg

          I don’t think Sully is a BT apologist by any means. But he’s done enough to earn a 1 year contract I reckon. We are in 3rd spot in the conference, equal points with the team in 2nd spot (who, incidentally, just lost their main attacking force). We are 3 and 4 with not the worst run home (after the SAF tour). Let’s see how it pans out, but I for one am completely comfortable with the re-appointment.

        • Greg

          The word on the feeling in the team and imminent departures is not good. Is it right…. we will see.

          The hunt/sanchez/quade discussion sits there as well.

        • RugbyReg

          what imminent departures? Paia’aua ? He’s form has been fairly average and he actually blamed a lack of communication from Cheika for wanting to leave. Sefa? A shame but he’s been here less than a year. I don’t think was ever his biggest priority. Kerevi? Killer, but he was captain and provided all opportunities. Word is he’s being offered a $1M contract. Say no to that! Higgers? He’s old. He deserves to go.

          Hunt made his own bed.

          Genia wanted to come back but we couldn’t afford him.

          QC is a whole other story. You can hang him on that whole incident but I think everyone won from that decision.

        • Brisneyland Local

          Except the Reds!

        • Huge fan of BT as a player. As a coach…?
          MY acceptance of BT extension is not so much about my belief in him as a coach and more about the coaching merry-go-round the Reds have indulged in since the sacking of Knuckles Connely. Check this out!

          John Connolly (1989 – 2000)
          Mark McBain (2001 – 2002)
          Andrew Slack (16 November 2002[24] – 2003)
          Jeff Miller (2004 – 2006)
          Eddie Jones (2007)
          Phil Mooney (2008 – 2009)
          Ewen McKenzie (2010 – 2013)
          Richard Graham (2013 – 7 March 2016[25])
          Matt O’Connor (7 March 2016[25])
          Nick Stiles (7 March 2016[25] – 4 October 2017[26])
          Brad Thorn (4 October 2017[26] – )

          I believe we need a consistent long term coaching team to get somewhere and unfortunately our head coach isn’t there yet. I’m not ready to burn yet another coach yet. I think we need time with the same people in charge to create a culture instead of starting again every two years.

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Personally I’d prefer they hire a coach that’s sucsessful with experience and give HIM a long shot at it. Not a rookie coach. That just leaves the Reds vunerable for a long time!

        • Gallagher

          yes please

    • Singapore Sling

      The Reds are only 1-1/2 years into the 10 year cultural revolution. Have they gone cold on the idea? I was expecting a real double down with the believe campaign so only one year is a surprise. If there is one thing Reds fans are practiced at its waiting out shit coaches.

      • voodoo economics

        I thought the reds were laying a cultural foundation so they could rebuild after the previous Woody G rebuild that started to crack badly. However good move sorting out that culture then starting a revolution. When its over we can start to rebuild again and recycle cliches . Cliches are very important to the reds structure I am lead to believe. Environmentally friendly and very smart indeed, we are in good hands.

  • Fatflanker

    anti-vaxers stupid

    Sully, that really is gold. What a waste – imagine what this bloke could have achieved with half-decent coaching and better players around him – he’d be 120 Super tries up in a Kiwi franchise. RA have done the right thing and its good to see Oz leading the way on disciplining unacceptable behaviour (again).

    • Thanks FF. It got tamed down a lot.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Hahahahaha I bet it was mate

  • Parker

    Bravo Southey. More power to you!

    • In a world where the term gets thrown around too much he really is a legend.

  • Richard Patterson

    We all know the issue with Israel Folau is extraordianarily complex on many levels.
    I sense none of us have all the answers to a matter with no straight forward solution.
    However, are RA in danger of creating a very dangerous precedent by not terminating Israel Folau for breach of contract, and therefore effectively granting him a 3rd chance?
    Would the same policy be adopted for a lesser regarded Wallaby player?
    What would the reaction be to Nick Phipps being charged for a 2nd time to urinating on a bar in a public place?
    How would any of us feel if a fellow employee was consistently granted exceptions for breaches of contract, when any such behaviour by ourselves would lead to immediate termination?

    It is a very disappointing day for rugby and sprung the sport back onto the front pages for all the wrong reasons. The whole world will be watching Rugby Australia. Israel Folau does not think, write, act or behave alone. This is not a subject confined to rugby union.

    • Brisneyland Local

      Well we only have to look at Gilbert. No player in the history of the ARU has had as many chances as that man!

    • RF

      Fining and suspending him would have been an appropriate escalation on last year perhaps.

      Yesterday I was all-for sacking him. Not quite as sure now.

      • Richard Patterson

        It is an extremely complex situation – with no precedant in Australia. It is the worst possible nightmare for Rugby Australia who hardly went looking for this publicity.
        The stakes are very high — either way!

  • Nutta

    Morning

    I’m not a lawyer. But I’ve done a bit of study. From my point of view:

    Australia there is no right to religious expression the same way there is no right to free speech. Our rights are governed by the Constitution. The Constitution protects:
    > Citizen’s right to vote
    > Any Commonwealth compulsory-acquisition to be done on just terms (The Castle principle)
    > Fair trial for federal crimes (note not state crimes)
    > Freedom to practice their religion (very different from expressing their religion)
    > No federal legislated discrimination based on state of residence
    > High Court review of federal legislation
    > Limited freedom to reasonable expression of political opinion

    So given we have no bill of rights or similar, when it comes to expressing an opinion, the only categorical right we have is a limited right to freedom of political expression. So Izzy’s legal ‘rights’ as an Australian citizen are not being impinged by my reading of the situation.

    Further to that, Izzy is an employee of a business which has clear policies on social media, inclusiveness and clear responsibilities with community and sponsorship groups. He has breached those policies in a massive way for the 2nd time in 12mths. So he is toast.

    But all that said, my information is that Izzy’s representation is of a level of clued-in professionalism unlike anything else seen in league, rugby or AFL. So I do not buy for 1sec that Izzy is not fully & completely aware of what that post would mean and its outcome.

    Something really stinks here. This is a move in a bigger game. Time will tell.

    • Brisneyland Local

      100%
      He is headed elsewhere!

      • Andrew Luscombe

        Becoming a preacher I reckon. Getting some publicity of his views while ending the contract.

      • RF

        No doubt his phone is buzzing with offers.

        I do doubt that this was his plan all along and I believe his convictions are genuine. Perhaps he assumed he was untouchable after setting the record and knew that if he was wrong he would have fall-back options.

        • Brisneyland Local

          I have no doubt on his convictions! But this was definitely a calculated move. His management and legal team would have briefed him in no short order about the consequences of another posting. He set the record, he wanted out, he has it.

    • Happyman

      Agreed

  • Brisneyland Local

    I cant wait for that freedom bird home this afternoon! It and the G&T at the lounge cant come soon enough!

  • Jimmydubs

    Whats with all the comments suggesting Izzy is stupid?
    Because he holds different views?
    Or have we all seen his IQ test results?
    Or just trying to undermine him?
    Or because he ‘offends’ you?

    Society where people cant express views different to yours isn’t society.

    Australia seems to have become rather fucked i do say.

    • RF

      I have religious views. Don’t agree with his interpretations but he is entitled to them and I don’t think that he is stupid for having his own views either.

      However, I think it was stupid* (or careless) of him to do this again after the controversy from last year, the aftermath of that and signing a new contract which, as I understand it, explicitly prohibited him from commenting on this topic in social media.

      * I wouldn’t rule out it being a calculated move to get out of his contract, or at least calling RA’s bluff knowing he would have other offers

    • Geoffro

      His fame and influence is entirely based on his professional sporting career and but for that nobody would give two hoots what he thought or tweeted,there are plenty of religious cranks out there amongst the great unwashed gone unheard.If his intention was to depart the sport because of his religious beliefs,well,he’s done it the wrong way.If not his intention,he’s just plain thick IMHO.Looking forward to some of our less self entitled talent rolling up their sleeves and having a real go at the vacated position.

  • RF

    Going against the grain here but I am excited to see Beale make the most of his opportunity at 15. A few years ago he put in some sensational displays there for the Waratahs and he impressed at Wasps.

    He’s unpopular here but i think that some of his appalling behaviour has contributed towards that and perhaps influenced perceptions of his rugby competencies.

    • Greg

      plus he runs flat out for the sideline… and Foley has already taken most of the field width.

      I think if he plays he is 15…. but can’t always tackle. Personally…. off the bench with Hooper at 50. I think this could be our best bet.

      • RF

        For the Waratahs? I would expect Hooper and Beale to be the first names on the team-sheet.

        I think that Hooper will be a “finisher” for the Wallabies.

        Whether Beale is 15 or 23 I am not sure. Has prove some form with NSW to make his case.

        • Greg

          For gold

    • Human

      The most telling part of you post, RF, is, “…a few years ago…”. Nothing lasts forever, particularly a footballer’s glory days.

  • Gallagher

    I think labelling someone as a ‘cynical Reds fan’ would imply they only distrust Brads motivation to Coach. I think anyone that has challenged him has to go no further than challenge his ineptness, lack of experience, and inability to develop a good culture. I just want someone that can show they know how to implement more than one game plan, develop and retain the best players and WIN more than a few games, I doubt most could care less about his motivation if he met these key criteria. He says “growing”, “improving” and “moving forward” are required but he doesn’t know HOW he will achieve these goals, and better than all other Super teams are also doing at the same time. That’s not cynical, that’s just demanding better. Another wasted year, another year supporting the Rebels.

    • Brisneyland Local

      That is exactly what I am doing.

  • Huw Tindall

    I wouldn’t be surprised of RA have stuffed up again and won’t be able to cancel his contract outright and we end up paying Izzy $4m to practice his preaching over the next 4 years. Has classic RA incompetence written all over it, no matter how well intended.

  • Depending on how avidly you follow the NH news, this is rippling through English rugby now. Billy Vunipola “liked” Izzy’s post. Saracens and the RFU have both taken a dim view of it.

    He’s got a meeting with the RFU lined up and Sarries are investigating whether it’s line with their commitment to community standards.

    • Bernie Chan

      No matter what the outcome of the challenge as supported by the RUPA, I think the damage done by Izzy’s post will linger…alas. Either way, rugby in Oz will suffer…

NSW Waratahs
@Only1Sully

Just another Rugby tragic. Shane "Sully" Sullivan has been in man love with the game since high school in the 70's. He inflicts his passion on family and anyone who will listen. He can't guarantee unbiased opinion but he can tell you the Reds are Awesome! To read non-rugby content head to http://www.onesully.com.au

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