Israel Folau's contract set to be terminated - Green and Gold Rugby
Rugby

Israel Folau’s contract set to be terminated

Israel Folau’s contract set to be terminated

In response to the social media posts on Wednesday evening from Israel Folau, Rugby Australia have released a statement on Thursday evening that they intend to terminate Israel Folau’s contract.

It comes after repeated attempts by Rugby Australia and NSW Rugby officials to contact the fullback since Wednesday evening came to no avail and has effectively left them with no alternative.

The statement said “Rugby Australia and the New South Wales Rugby Union have made repeated attempts to contact Israel both directly and via his representatives since 6.30pm on Wednesday, and at this point he has failed to communicate directly with either organisation.”

“In the absence of compelling mitigating factors, it is our intention to terminate his contract.”

  • What a loser.

    • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

      Respectfully, I disagree. Israel is obviously a guy that has been brainwashed by an intolerant strain of religion.

      As good people, we should pity him for his intolerant views and his inability to actually see the message of Christ, the man who he claims to follow, was one of love, and showing love and compassion, for all others.

      The guy is going to have his contract terminated and he is still going to be filled with the fear and bigoted views in his heart.

      I pity him, although I think RA are making the only choice possible in the circumstances.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Funnily enough I support both you and Dylan in this. sad that he has been left to believe this is OK but for a person of his age and with what has been explained to him in the past about the consequences of this, I think he is a bit of a loser. A sad loser however

  • Jason

    Apparently he’s not responded to attempts to contact him.

    I wonder what they’d do in League if they had this kind of stuff.

    I think this is actually a really good thing for Australian Rugby long term if they do terminate his contract.

    • Dally M

      League have already stated he’s not welcome back there either.

      Europe is his only option now, IF any of those clubs are prepared to take him in.

      • Jason

        I’ve not heard anything about League not wanting him; compared to players glassing their girlfriends Folau is a paragon of virtue!

        I don’t see why any other clubs wouldn’t take him, the only thing he’s really done is post some slightly offensive social media posts the real issue is that he did a number of times, and quite flagrantly after being told not to. He’s still one of the best players in World Rugby, I just think he’s likely to fall off a cliff any time now.

      • Who?

        League don’t want him, too hot to handle, but they’ve got a great history this summer with domestic abuse…
        And Beale’s fine to stay without punishment after being shown this summer spending time with a guy snorting cocaine.
        It’s interesting where the boundaries lie.

        • ALJ

          RA is fine with its players being grubs (up to a point) but don’t even think about having your own thoughts and convictions

      • John Miller

        Something is amiss here. IF’s timing and subsequent approach to the firestorm seems almost deliberate.

        There is a zero chance that IF didn’t understand the depth of feeling and fallout from these actions given the prolonged, forensic discussions from just a year ago, and the specificity of the social media clauses RA apparently inserted into his latest multimillion dollar contract. He he has just broken the Super Rugby try scoring record. Like the rest of Australia – IF probably sees very little chance of Cup glory in September within Cheika’s broken Wallabies and it’s not as if he needs a RWC to enhance his marketability, visibility or global market value. He has immediately gone to ground without even attempting to stem the blood flow – ostensibly knowing that without collaboration with and assistance from his employer, (and with the public conversation raging and fans demanding a definitive statement / action), RA would have no option but to dismiss.

        What are the chances Israel Folau already has a mega-European contract offer sitting on his manager’s desk and simply needs to exit his current Australian playing obligations in order to take it up?

  • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

    Cya Folau. Feel bad for Gibson and the Tahs, they’re fucked now. But maybe we can pay out Kerevi’s contract and keep him now.

  • Cameron Rivett

    What Waratah will they pick at fullback instead of Tom Banks for the Wallabies now?

    • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

      I wonder if the Tahs will target Hodge or Maddocks now?

      The Tahs are so fucked next year. But I guess they have lots of salary cap to keep ‘Nard and Beale.

    • Jason

      Maddocks/Hodge/Banks transferred to the Waratahs for ‘Wallabies reasons’.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Hahaha that’s gold. Beale to 15, Hunt remains at 12 and the Tags back line improved anyway

    • Hoss

      Cam Clarke’s being measured for Blazer now

  • Happyman

    Overall not disappointed thankfully RA has shown leadership his views are not comparable with the views of most stakeholders of the code.

    Hopefully this puts a stake in the ground as to what is acceptable behaviour.

    Having said that while I disagree with his views I hold dear the view that he is entitled to have them.

    • Your comment is a contradiction.

      • Happyman

        Not at all his views are incompatible with Rugby’s values IMHO.

        He is entitled to them but not as an employee of RA.

  • Kiwi rugby lover

    Well bugga me! I did not expect that. Well done RA that is a very good move. While I agree 100% with free speech, the unfortunate consequence is that stupid people are allowed to say stupid things. It is great to see that RA is acknowledging the harm and consequences of this latest statement. I am impressed with their leadership on this

  • It makes me feel sick that Folau might be sacked. His comment is a religious view not understood in context by the public and media. If anyone actually read his 2018 article, he explains his reference to homosexuals is to put them in the same basket as all other people, creeds and sinners. I don’t think he is singling them out. In other words all people, all sinners are equal. That’s my interpretation of it anyway.

    His latest post can be read ten dozen ways. The incredibly naive public reaction tells me people are easily offended these days…in fact they choose to be offended instead of ignoring it and living their own by their own principles. If Folau is sacked it says much about the direct state of Australian rugby. How our biggest draw card, record breaking try scorer, most talented and feared player can be kicked out of the game. I can’t say I will continue to keep supporting rugby in Australia if this happens. Also, if it does, I can assure you he will be earning double the pay on an overseas contract pretty soon.

    • Patrick

      I agree.

    • Dud Roodt

      What you seem to be failing to recognise is that he lumps a person’s sexuality in with other people’s failings in the way they live their life (like adulterers, drunks etc) like the gay person has the choice over it and chooses to sin by being who they are.

      It would be like if he said hell is waiting for all black people. The colour of their skin is something they cannot control, much like someone’s sexuality, and yet Izzy’s god will punish them for it?

      • Who?

        Izzy was a Mormon, and my (limited) understanding of that faith was that, until the 70’s, they held exactly those sorts of beliefs about black people (that they were sub-human, etc).
        The issue of sexual choice is very significant here. But I’m not sure that it’s fully understood (i.e. by Folau).

    • Andrew Luscombe

      I agree that he probably thinks he is trying to save people from hell, and not intending to harm them. But that’s not what he is being sacked for. Given the modern media context in which RA operates (i.e. media outlets cherry picking facts and purposely exaggerating and presenting a false impression of things to create controversy) they appear to have contracted with him not to make posts of this type. Then he did.

      We’ll maybe hear something from his side of the story in the future, but it seems like his religion has taken hold of him and he would prefer to not be playing rugby, but doing something more religious instead.

  • Custard Taht

    Not a fan of Folau or religion, but not sure I agree with his sacking. The Wallabies will most likely be better without him, as long as Beale isn’t the replacement.

    All he did was quote/reference the bible. If his comments are homophobic and a form of hate speech, then maybe it is time for the bible, Quaran etc to be banned, as this is what they state.

    I could understand if he was calling for violence against those on the list, but all he stated was what his religion believes to happen to “sinners”.

    The sport has no issue with voicing its beliefs even if those beliefs aren’t in line with some or many of the players.

    Perhaps the lesson in all of this is, sport and politics/religion should remain separated.

    • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

      Stop with the straw man.

      If you cannot see the difference between:

      (a) culturally ingrained books that are thousands of years old which include plenty of nasty verses and plenty of kind verses, and which are also considered to be metaphorical in nature by reasonable people; and

      (b) specifically choosing to quote one of the nasty verses in a public forum to hundred of thousands/millions of people and say it’s true after being twice warned not to do so

      Then I know the name and address of a really good school for you.

      Even Mein Kampf isn’t illegal in Germany anymore. But promulgating ideas from it certainly is.

      • Custard Taht

        Ok bud.

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          I didn’t compare them?

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      I think RA outline it well and why it is not tolerated. Here’s a link to their view on why he is to be sacked https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/111981367/rugby-australia-unable-to-contact-israel-folau-and-says-it-intends-to-terminate-his-contract

      • Custard Taht

        That is definitely a better article than the one I read, far more detail.

        I can see why RA are intending to terminate his contract based on their previous warnings and communication.

        I genuinely don’t see him publicly stating his religious beliefs as being a sackable offence.

        I can see this getting messy legally, unless of course Folau wanted out.

        • Steve

          I think it’s a a deliberate understatement to say he’s ‘publicly stating his religious beliefs’ – He wasn’t on there saying ‘I’m a Christian’.

          It looked more like one of the signs made by the Westboro Baptist Church, and pretty hate-filled. I’d imagine it would be pretty easily covered under that clause in all our contracts of ‘bringing the employer into disrepute’ – People are routinely sacked for far less.

        • Peter Morse

          If you believe crap like that you are truly simple (and I don’t mean you personally). Folau’s worst crime is to show how dumb he really is.

    • Timbo

      Secondly to this, such sinners, of which i am several of those mentioned(as previously stated) are going to ‘hell’. An imaginary place to those offended by the original post. Plus as others have facetiously stated, hell has all the best people so, whats the problem here?

    • RF

      He didn’t quote/reference the bible though.

      He’s entitled to his views on any issues and entitled to whatever prejudices he wishes.

      The issue is that he was warned about this a year ago in regards to public statements being consistent with RA policy and signed a new contract with conditions related to his which he has violated.

  • Jimmydubs

    What a joke.
    I’m a life long adulterer and I’m going to hell according to izzy.
    I don’t want him sacked for this.
    I’m not offended. Seems everyone wants a diverse society but with no diversity in views.
    Australia needs to harden the fuck up and ignore people you disagree with. Don’t sack them
    Twats

    • GO THE Q REDS

      Yeah wonder if they will sack Pocock for pushing his gay rights agendas, which clearly offend true Christians. And yes we are a nation built on christian values so……yeah

      • Andy

        What’s a true Christian?

        Difference is Pocock doesn’t slander christians by promoting gay rights. Pretty sure he is a Christian himself

        • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

          A true Christian is whatever the speaker thinks it is.

        • Geoffro

          Seems that way.Utter madness

      • Geoffro

        We are a nation established and built by our predominently white ‘christian’ forebears but I dont think they particularly adhered to true christian values if you delve into the history of it.We’ve apologised and have embraced multiculturalism and tolerance (supposedly) as part of our national identity.While I find Izzy’s remarks no more distasteful than some of those spouted by Sunday morning tv evangelists brought to us by the mass media or a Pauline Hansen type he has crossed the bounds of what truly are some of the most dominant forces in today’s landscape – social media (cue the constant shitstorms created from its use) , PC (cue our collective bleeding hearts) big business and it’s mosty selective use of contractual obligation.Seeya mate

      • Onside

        And on that note, why not have rainbow patches on all superugby jerseys, coupled with rainbow laces to show how serious they are about the cause.

      • Dud Roodt

        You seem to be equating someone “Pushing gay rights” (i.e. someone wanting EVERYONE to be treated equally) with that of someone saying a particularly portion of humanity are going to hell for something they have no control over.

        These two things are not the same.

  • formerflanker

    A wrong headed decision by RA.

    Since when do the alleged viewpoints of multiple stakeholders determine the allocation of contracts to players? Where is the evidence to prove Israel’s views are contrary to all followers of the game?

    Certainly the potential loss of advertising dollars from Qantas has struck fear into RA. The same Qantas who works hand in glove with anti-homosexual Emirates, so I expect RA to ditch its relationship with Qantas. (ha!)

    Following this decision, no Australian rugby player will be able to chain himself to farm machinery, or “like” Israel’s instagram post.
    As you know, both things have happened.

    Yes, the legal structure of the contract gives RA the right to terminate it. Yet the views he expressed were commonplace in Australia not so long ago. “Fire and brimstone” preaching is something that older rugby stakeholders were exposed to and may still hold dear.

    Israel told RA, who make millions from him every year in corporate sponsorship and ticket sales, to piss off and sacrificed millions of his own future earnings for his personal beliefs.

    He has the courage of his convictions and I support his stand. RA has shown all of us that unfortunately, money speaks louder than the right to free speech.

    • Justin Menego

      There’s a difference between the right to free speech and the right to hateful speech, my old-fashioned friend.

      • formerflanker

        I agree to the extent that no-one has the right to incite violence. However even RA hasn’t used the phrase “hate speech” – the closest they got was “he cannot share material on social media that condemns, vilifies or discriminates against people on the basis of their sexuality.”

        • Anthony

          He has the right to speak freely, as he has, but with free speech comes consequences. Especially when 1 year ago he was specifically told by his employer not to do this.

      • MungBean

        So long as it does not constitute a direct threat or incitement to deprive another of their rights, speech is free or it’s not.

        The concept of “hate speech” is a trope designed to threaten and silence political enemies and its usage is as old as the hills, my old-fascist friend.

        • Steve

          Can we stop with the discussion of ‘free speech’ please – Free speech (within the bounds of hate speech) justifies the right to discussion without fear of government persecution or incarceration.

          It has no applicability to employment agreements, and never did have.

        • MungBean

          I tend to agree. See my comment elsewhere.

      • GO THE Q REDS

        We actually don’t have the right too free speech in Aus do we?

        • Dud Roodt

          Exactly! Fuck, people crap on about “durr what happened to free speech!?” like it’s something that we have in our constitution like the seppo’s.

          We don’t fucking have it, we never have had it, so please stop treating it like it’s the 1st fucking amendment.

        • Pearcewreck

          Just because it isn’t in our constitution doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
          The name Dud Roodt isn’t mentioned in the constitution, but that doesn’t mean you don’t exist.

        • Dud Roodt

          Not the best comparison to be honest… of course the constitution doesn’t mention Dud Roodt.

          But people repeat “the right to free speech” like it’s a tangible right that we are granted under the laws of the country. Which just isn’t true. As a concept, sure, it’s a nice thing to think and say, but in practice it’s as meaningless as saying we all have the right to free nachos on Fridays.

        • Pearcewreck

          Not the best comparison to be honest… of course we don’t have the right to free nachos on Fridays, no one has the right to free nachos any day of the week. Nachos are a commodity, that is traded.

          Some rights are just implicit.
          You have the right to breathe. It dosen’t need to be legislated, it just exists.

        • Dud Roodt

          And yet I can’t be arrested for breathing can I?
          I can, however, be arrested for my speech.

    • McWarren

      So much courage he couldn’t pick up the phone and defend his position with his employer. Wow that’s some strength of conviction, when he really needed to stand up for his convictions, in person, in front of real people he has slithered away into hiding. Sounds like his defensive strategy off field is similar to his on field one.

    • Dud Roodt

      It’s not really the wrong decision though is it?
      If my employer said “don’t do x, y or z”, and I agree to it, then I do either of those things, should I be surprised when I get fired?
      If they didn’t fire me, I’d think they were cowards and would continue taking the piss out of them.

  • Tim

    Honestly who cares about what he posts? His last post literally told all of us are sinners. Do I care no because I’m not religious and don’t care about that stuff. Would it be the same reaction if someone posted a joke about religion? No. Just like all our players he will go overseas earn more money and be a better player.

    • NSWelsham in London

      here here.. Just pulled this from Google “A 2012 poll by Win-Gallup International found that 48% of Australians claimed no religion; 37% were religious; 10% declared themselves “convinced atheists”. Australia placed in the bottom 14 for religiosity and in the top 11 for atheism.”
      Seems to me the majority of the country dont actually believe in Heaven and Hell anyway. Dont agree with him spreading hate but FFS the world is becoming too soft as it is. Let the man play just dont let Nigel Owens ref us again or we screwed..

      • Pearcewreck

        The most surprising thing about your comment is that there are still people out there who believe polls.

        • Dud Roodt

          What do you mean?

          Polls are, generally speaking, a very good tool and are quite accurate.

          If you think that just because polls predicted Trump wouldn’t win the election and then did, that polls are useless, then I’m afraid you don’t understand how polls work.

        • Pearcewreck

          Yes you are right, 100%. No, really, you are!

          Obviously I have no idea how polls are meant to work, because your Trump example is exactly how polls should work, otherwise, they are meaningless. Completely, 100% meaningless.

          But no, you are right, ……yes, yes you are…. you just go on believing that.

        • Dud Roodt

          Right so nothing to add then?

          No plan on defending your inane comment about people believing polls?

          Gotcha

        • Pearcewreck

          Your attempt to justify the accuracy of polls by using Trump as an example is so flawed, I don’t even know where to start.

          Every poll for over a year had Hillary winning.

          That is what polls do. They sample a selection of voters to find out how people will vote, and then extrapolate that data out to predict voting intentions for the electorate, in order to predict who will win.
          If they don’t do that then they are useless, so what is the point of them.

          So, in the Trump example, the polls were either:
          a) Completely and consistently wrong for more than 12 months, or

          b) Completely useless because polls are useless.

        • Dud Roodt

          You’ve either failed in comprehending what I was saying or have had your mind made up before attempting to understand it.

          So, firstly, I didn’t attempt to justify the accuracy of polls by using Trump as an example, in fact, quite the opposite. I was citing Trump as an anomaly in the polling process, but one that still doesn’t reduce the efficacy of the polling process.

          You seem to be doing exactly what I said you were doing in my first comment, which is to say that with the Trump example, you think the fact the polls were “wrong” means all polls are worthless. And that’s not how polls work. Polls aren’t sentient beings making forecasts, there are variables that affect a poll’s chances of predicting a result (such as non-response and dishonest reponses).

          As you seem to be placing so much creedence on one poll result, I could show you 50 that were almost entirely spot on. But polls are useless, right?

        • Who?

          You’re both wrong there, because there were actually polls that had Trump winning… Polls that were better targeted and asked the right questions.
          That’s the big problem with polls. The questions that are asked. Garbage question, poor target demographic, and you get garbage answers.
          For the record, I don’t consider Australia to be a Christian country, it’s very clearly a post-modern non-religious democracy.
          .
          But, of course, we’re a long way from Folau and Rugby here…

        • Dud Roodt

          Just to be clear, I wasn’t inferring that polls relating to Trump were right, wrong, or anything else, just saying that to cite 2016 as an example as to why all polls are flawed is ridiculous

        • Who?

          All good, you just didn’t have it as clear as you might. :-)
          You said, “Polls didn’t have Trump winning,” implying that no one had Trump winning and polls had failed, rather than explaining these were poorly targeted polls which got the right result for the questions asked of the demographics targeted, and made big assumptions that weren’t correct.

        • Pearcewreck

          Quote: So, firstly, I didn’t attempt to justify the accuracy of polls by using Trump as an example, in fact, quite the opposite. I was citing Trump as an anomaly in the polling process, but one that still doesn’t reduce the efficacy of the polling process.

          Well thanks Dud.In your previous comment you did not make this clear at all.
          In response, I would say that there is a long term trend for polls to be biased to the “left”,
          Trump, Brexit, recent NSW election are examples. My theory is that the MSM are so inherently left wing in their coverage of politics etc, that there are some people when they get polled,they feel it is “cool” or “popular” to cide with the left.

          But, on voting day, they vote in a much more well thought out manner.

          Also, re Trump. Do some research. Please do a “poll of the polls” for the year previous to his election.
          Come back and tell me how many predicted his victory.
          Please do same for Brexit.
          Actually, don’t worry. I have allready done it.
          Here is an extensive list of those that got it right:

          List of Polls that Predicted Trump

          List of Polls that Predicted Brexit

        • Dud Roodt

          I still don’t think you quite get what polls are. You seem to think polls should have predicted both those things as if the polls should have known. The reason most polls predicted a Trump loss and brexit loss is because that is what the majority of respondents said would happen. Nothing more, nothing less.

          There are of course polls with greater accuracy and ones which aren’t as accurate simply because of the people that are likely to respond. There are polls which are independent of any bias you perceive in the media.

          Are you suggesting the big bad MSM commie’s made up what they wanted to make up for the poll? I don’t see how you think MSM being inherently left (although many right wing papers also didn’t have Trump winning) effects a poll in any other way than the people they target?

          And again you seem to be saying that due to 2 enormous anomalies, all polling is broken? We’ve used polling for a couple of hundred years, and largely, they are accurate. They are not however a decider of results.

          I did some research as you asked (if only you had), first result for who predicted a Trump win? The LA Times.

  • juswal

    The rights and wrongs of religious views and expression aren’t relevant now. It’s “workplace relations”.

    The employer told the employee to not do something, and made it clear that disobedience would mean dismissal.

    He did it anyway. So out he goes.

    • RF

      That’s it in a nutshell.

      Our views over his opinions, religious beliefs etc don’t matter.

    • Dally M

      Wonder what punishment Kerevi and Alaalatoa will get for ‘Liking’ the post…

      • juswal

        Punishment will depend on whether they have breached any contract clause, conduct code or written directive.

    • Geoffro

      Unless he appeals…………can RA’s busted financial arse afford litigation and arbitration is as corrupt and fickle as any law court.He appears to want out but his christian belief may be that he deserves a payday as well

      • juswal

        When he signed the 2022 contract six months ago, reports said that the social media rules were strict and explicit. I doubt he has any room to litigate—he’s in breach, not RA.

        • Geoffro

          I can tell you from personal experience that contracts,wills,testaments etc though they may be explicit are hardly worth the paper they are written on if you have good legal representation

  • Hoss

    Ther are just no winners in this , only losers.

    ‘The only difference between a Saint and a Sinner is that every Saint has a past and every sinner has a future’

    • Reinforce

      The world is a better place Hos when you post your wisdoms on all topics. Brings me joy – thanks.

    • Parker

      Agreed. And despite this being a rugby page, I’m more concerned about the arrest of Julian Assange.

    • idiot savant

      Theres some flawed logic here because I have no future and Christ, i’m no saint.

      • Hoss

        Your the reason I keep coming back here mate – you’re a lunatic that keeps me laughing.

        • idiot savant

          Aw, shucks. Et tu Brute

  • Richard Patterson

    We all know this is a complicated issue on multiple fronts. However, following the embarrassing PR mess last April, Rugby Australia introduced some very clear terms into Israel Folau’s employment contract regarding social media content. These terms would have been clearly spelt out, understood, and signed off by Folau and his management.

    These terms have clearly been breached. I sense Rugby Australia have been left little alternative but terminate Folau. He knew the ground he was playing in. None of this should be any surprise.

    • Parker

      That’s the core of the issue. Everything else is a peripheral discussion, the province of punditry and hypotheticals.

  • Human

    It is illegal, in Australia, to discriminate against someone because of their religious views. Is there a court case brewing?

    • Justin Menego

      No.

    • Kevino

      His broken the ARU code if conduct in about 4 ways in 24 hours. He signed a contract with the ARU agreeing to that code. No court would side with him

      • AllyOz

        They could perhaps challenge the legality of the contract clause and if it breaches his individual rights??

    • MST

      There is no Commonwealth legislation enshrining a general right to freedom of expression.

      Article 20 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) contains mandatory limitations on freedom of expression, and requires countries, subject to reservation/declaration, to outlaw vilification of persons on national, racial or religious grounds. Australia has made a declaration in relation to article 20 to the effect that existing Commonwealth and state legislation is regarded as adequate, and that the right is reserved not to introduce any further legislation on these matters.

      The Criminal Code contains offences relating to the use of a telecommunications carriage service in a way which is intentionally menacing, harassing or offensive, and using a carriage service to communicate content which is menacing, harassing or offensive.

      The Racial Discrimination Act 1975 makes it unlawful to do an act reasonably likely to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or group if the act is done because of the race, colour or national or ethnic origin of the person or group.

      International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

      Article 19

      – Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference.

      – Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.

      – The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:
      – For respect of the rights or reputations of others;
      – For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.

      Article 20

      – Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.
      – Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.

      • Steve

        Get the hell out of here with your facts, MST.

        This is a bid to silence someone’s freedom of expression and religion, and me and some of my buddies won’t stand for it.

        • MST

          Izzy, is that you? RA are trying to call you.

      • idiot savant

        Thanks MST. I imagine Cheik is briefing an SC this minute to challenge any termination. Christ (sic) Cheik will have to coach a backline if he cant win this case.

        Presumably Article 19 will save Kerevi who is alleged to have liked Izzy’s post.

        • MST

          Too funny!

        • idiot savant

          Actually Article 19 might save the entire Qld Reds…

      • Human

        Thanks. My post was meant to be a question, not a statement as it appears…should have taken more care. What about the anti-discrimination laws and the question of whether the contract terms are enforceable?

      • Pearcewreck

        Yep but there is no Commonwealth legislation enshrining a general right for this website to exist. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

  • Moz

    Izzy was on the cover of a gay magazine 5 years ago, promoting a gay rugby tournament…

    At the time, a Bingham Cup spokesman said Folau was a “strong advocate for ending all forms of the discrimination in sport.”

    https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/what-a-difference-five-years-makes-folaus-gay-magazine-past/news-story/b45c168ef2523cda96a757eedd60d69a

    • Andy

      That’s mental.

  • MungBean

    On one hand he was told not to do it as a condition of his employment, so the Tahs and RA are entitled to do as they wish.

    Morally, however, they’re straying out of their lane in even applying such a condition. He’s acted in his capacity as a private citizen and is expressing a belief that does not constitute a direct threat to anyone.

    Thirdly, and most importantly, Hell does not exist. So to get your tits in a twist about a fantastical threat is actually playing along with the fantasy. That, in itself, is plain weird.

    • GO THE Q REDS

      Your last point is perfectly correct.. .. Folou being a self proclaimed devout Christian who has been known to quote scripture seems to fail to realize Hell does not exist in the bible. It’s one of those things like the cross and even Christmas, made up to suit pagan men’s agendas. Along with his head to toe tattoos he appears a little confused! Such a shame to be loosing one of the greatest talents ever in Rugby. …along with a Simply irreplaceable Wallaby FB.
      Jeremy Paul may be very close to being right when he said the Wallabies can’t win the WC without him.

      • Kevino

        I give the Wallabies more chance without him, cause it means Cheika has to move away from his crap broken game plan and actually look at players who deserve to be there. A full back has to be able to kick for one.

      • Pearcewreck

        Sorry, but …. you made need to educate yourself about what’s in the Bible. You are correct about Christmas, but not Hell or the Cross.

      • RF

        In the name of accuracy, the subject of hell is written about numerous times in the bible and the celebration on December 25th is not a secret.

    • idiot savant

      Hell does so exist. Every Australian rugby supporter has been sent there.

  • Crescent

    Beware the sloppy reporting and mid reporting of the actual issue. Firstly, the right to state your beliefs does not shield you from the consequences of those statements.

    Secondly, the issue appears to be breaching agreed social media policies that Izzy would be well aware of.

    It is easy to lose sight of the fact that after the first incident, the Sydney Convicts invited Israel to meet the team to understand the impact of his words, which was a measured, appropriate and generous offer. I wish he had taken the opportunity. It seems a shame this will now be framed as “PC gone mad by the professionally outraged” (already seen the headline on the SMH this evening).

    It’s a crying shame it appears he will be lost to the game – despite not being the perfect player, his strengths added to the team, and I will be disappointed not to see him in the squad anymore.

    Every cloud has it’s silver lining – the Tahs and Wallabies attack now need to evolve by bringing new blood into the team. No faith in the arse clown choosing the best player in the slot, but at least the position has been cleared for his successor post World Cup.

    • RF

      How ironic that the SMH is talking about PC gone mad and social justice witch-hunts etc.

      • Pearcewreck

        Yep RF, that is just about the craziest thing in all this mess.

  • Fatflanker

    Coincidence this comes just after he becomes Super leading try scorer?… I’d say not. He’s happy to go, (is Higgenbottie still the leading forward, I wonder?).

    • maxxlord

      Yes, Higgers is the leading forward try scorer by a loooooong way, greater than any New Zealand or South African forward of this or any era in SupeRugby. BUT Cheika thinks he isn’t good enough for his style of play. Imagine if he was a New Zealander with that raw talent and lineout ability. Cheika is a nitwit.

      PS Izzy can say what he like. I’d be surprised if he just doesn’t want out.

      • Who?

        I thought Messam had as many or just one fewer tries than Higgers..?

        • maxxlord

          Higgers is far ahead and has been for a while now. Check wiki and let that sink in. The greatest try scoring forward in super history is Australian, available and in good form, but he is not good enough to play for the worst coach in wallaby history :) Who cares what Folau posts when there is a circus like this under RA noses.

        • Who?

          Ok – must’ve misheard the commentators the other week.
          I would’ve had Higgers in my team when fit over the past few years…

    • AllyOz

      Perhaps but I think it was more likely brought on by the introduction of the legislation (optional sex selection on birth certificates) in Tasmania and perhaps by the two rulings around exclusion zones for abortion protesters,

  • Bernie Chan

    As a QLD league and rugby fan…I loved what Izzy could do ( ok…he couldn’t kick despite playing AFL) on the field. It is a pity it has come to this…

  • MST

    Raelene Castle – twitter @9pm

    @raelenecastle

    Clarification: I was in constant contact with Isaac Moses over the last 24 hours. He did reach Israel however I was unable to speak with him

  • Khun Pugwash

    Good riddance.

  • Gallagher

    I blame Brad Thorn.

  • horowhenua

    He listed a lot of groups that seem right to be deemed sin…
    but by Homosexuals I believe practicing ones was meant.
    However, despite the Old Testament rule about that…
    Consensual seems right word, and think Jesus would agree.

  • Andy

    Ironically, as an atheist I’m not bothered at all by his beliefs. His post about where people like me are heading is akin to a crazy person in the street telling me I’ll turn into a lizard if I don’t lick my own toes.

    I’m just amazed he risked $4 million on such things. He’s either got something in the oven that only he and his agent know about or worse, has been led down the garden path by a pastor who has shown no consideration to Israel, his family or his career.

  • Bixbyvegas

    Mumbling through the national anthem and laughing and joking after a loss. No club affiliation. Brilliant pro athlete imported from other codes. The end result of what Eddie Jones started and where rugby in Australia began to lose it’s mojo. See ya champ.

  • teach

    I have a serious dislike for religitards that bring up homosexuality and the bible, even though there is very little about it mentioned. Especially when they are happy to ignore things that are clearly forbidden, like tattoos, cutting your hair at the sides, trimming your beard etc. It is all pathetic joke. I think he wants out and sees the possibility of a payday from a court case.

  • skip

    It’s not a free speech issue. His free speech is not in any way being infringed. Such laws that exist to protect free speech only protect from government limiting it, not your employer reasonably requiring you respect their code of conduct so as to protect their reputation from what you might say whilst in their employ. Likewise, social media firms are under no legal obligation to allow anyone to use their platforms to spout hate speech. For example, twitter was not under any legal obligation to allow Alex Jones to claim NASA runs child concentration camps on Mars to provide gay couples in California with adoption possibilities. This is why they and other platforms have faced no consequence in any jurisdiction for removing him – he can still say what he likes, just not on their platforms.

    The short version is that claiming free speech on this is a distraction as Folau wishes in fact to be free from the consequences of his speech and no court will accept the argument that it is a free speech issue.

  • RF

    Having slept on this I am not quite as convinced as I was yesterday.

    His 2 posts which sparked this controversy…

    i) Re: Tasmanian legislation on birth certificates. Used strong religious rhetoric in his response but I am sure that many people in the rugby community question the logic behind making gender an optional field in a birth certificate.

    ii) The list of people who need to repent. This image he shared is consistent with what he is always posting on Instagram, but included in the list are a demographic which he had attacked publicly before. They weren’t specifically called out.

    I had no sympathy for him yesterday, I am slightly more sympathetic to him in relation to the harshness of his sanctions. Perhaps reprimands (fine and suspension) would have been apt.

  • Nutta
  • formerflanker

    The Oz has an interesting article about RA and NSW Rugby making two errors in their rush to rip up Israel’s contract.

    “The fact that RA and the Waratahs went ahead and made a public announcement of their intention to fire him without going through a Code of Conduct hearing could potentially leave the two rugby bodies legally exposed.”

    Another problem identified by Wayne Smith is:

    “(the) social media clause in the $4 million four-year clause it signed with Folau last October that enabled it to sack him when he posted offensive material on Wednesday night — is fraught with even trickier obstacles.
    Under the General Contracting section of the CBA, the only additional clauses that can be inserted into a standard player contract are those that are beneficial or potentially beneficial to the player.”

    • ALJ

      Yep. For anyone saying that the sacking is fine because it is a contract issue – RA also has to follow the contract. And in their rush to prove how virtuous they are, it sounds like they didn’t.

    • GO THE Q REDS

      Personally I would love this to flip into the ARUs face and teach people how harmful all this political correctness garbage is. It seems they can hang Folou for stating his beliefs but couldn’t give a rats about Pocock laughing in the face of millions of Christians who could be offended by his Pro gay marriage stance and how that effects THEIR beliefs. It’s disgusting how some puck an choose their fights. It’s either OK for everyone or it’s not.. ..

  • Nick

    As a gay person, I am saddened…by all of the hate Israel has been receiving for this post. He didn’t say he dislikes gays or hates gays or that gays shouldn’t play rugby…he included homosexuality with about 8 other things that he believes to be sinful and could land you in hell if you don’t turn to Jesus. His post essentially says, “I think just about everyone I know is going to Hell unless they repent!” While I obviously don’t agree with his beliefs, I don’t see how they’re harmful.

    What I’m most upset with in this entire situation is that Israel hasn’t physically hurt anyone…he hasn’t wished harm upon anyone…he’s simply stating his religious beliefs. Yet, this story is getting picked up by news stations all over the world and he is receiving international condemnation that will stick with him for the rest of his life. Where’s the international condemnation for Kurtely sexually harassing and assaulting women…why does he still have a job? Where’s the international condemnation for Karmichael Hunt, selling drugs that kill people…why does he still have a job? Why is George Smith still held in such high regard…he physically assaulted a defenseless taxi driver. I read an article where Drew Mitchell calls Israel’s mental health into question…did Nick Phipps have a mental health issue when he pissed all over a bar?

    • Who?

      Please Nick, you’re far too generous in seeing that the person who initiated this whole thing might actually be getting burned by it, too… Where’s your outrage? Why are you so measured? :-P
      .
      Honestly, the world needs more measured and compassionate people like yourself.
      Life would be far more relaxed if we all didn’t jump straight to outrage and gave each other the benefit of the doubt as you’ve generously done.
      Of course, none of that means he’s made a great decision by making his post, given it’s only resulted in pain. But I’m glad it hasn’t caused you personal pain.
      I must admit, though, I can’t recall allegations of KB actually assaulting women?

      • Nick

        I thought there was something a while back about him assaulting a cousin…I edited my comment tho because I’m not 100% sure so don’t want to spread anything false

    • sambo6

      I don’t disagree with some of your sentiments. Even if he is not guilty of seriously harming anyone, he is totally guilty of monumental stupidity, I mean what the fuck did he think was going to happen when he decided to post it…..?

  • sambo6

    Well, I guess cheika’s going to have to teach all those ‘hidden moves’ they didn’t use last year to a new fullback….

Rugby
@steve_l15

Canberra born and bred Rugby fan brought up on Canberra Kookaburra and ACT Brumbies Rugby.

More in Rugby