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Monday’s Rugby News

Monday’s Rugby News

Monday’s Rugby News sees more issues with Amanaki Mafi, the Brumbies hopeful of retaining Christian Lealiifano, an early knockout for the Men’s 7’s and a Bronze medal for the Women. 

 

 

 


Mafi Mayhem

Amanaki Mafi lets one bounce

Amanaki Mafi lets one bounce

More news of the Amanaki Mafi case has come to light after night fresh allegations about his assault on teammate Lopeti Timani.

Timani claims Mafi and his brother engaged in a vicious assault in two different locations before pushing him into a car in a suburb in Dunedin. He told the Sydney Morning Herald he fled on foot when the car stopped at traffic lights, then hid in a bush until he was sure they had left the area.

Timani told the SMH he believed he was going to die during the assault.

“His brother tried to hold me as ‘Naki’ [Mafi] started punching me in the face,” Timani recollected.

“I said, ‘Mate, why are you doing this to me, I thought you were my teammate, I know your family, are you punching me because you’re angry because I said something offensive to your family?’

“He was just punching me and he said ‘because I’m telling you now I’m the man, I’m the man’. I thought they were going to kill me. I thought I was going to die.”

The more we hear about the incident, the more severe the Mafi issues are, with this not being his first tiff with another player.

It also makes the $15,000 fine handed out to him by the Rebels a slap on the hand for a major incident.

Mafi’s professional rugby career however is under serious doubt.

Mafi was in meetings all Saturday with his Japanese employers, NTT Shining Arcs, after arriving back in Japan on Friday, according to a spokeswoman from Japan’s Rugby Football Union.

The club are seeking serious answers, with criminal convictions heavily frowned upon in the conflict and controversy averse Top League.

Not too long ago veteran George Smith found himself in serious strife with Suntory Sungoliath after the expert flanker spent just under 3 weeks in police custody after supposedly punching a cab driver right in the shnoz.

He was let go without charges being laid but the negative publicity was perceived to bring shame on the club and his longstanding relationship with the Japanese club was brought to an abrupt end.

As one of the top players in the Japanese national team, Mafi’s standing in Japan is huge and an incident like this could even jeopardise his place in next year’s World Cup, despite him playing a starring role in both 2015 and the recent June Test series against Italy.

On July 16th the JFRU released a statement in regard to the incident.

“Japan Rugby Football Union sincerely apologize for causing trouble and concern for all the rugby fans and others,” it reads.

“We, as a governing body of the game in our country, have been working on educating and communicating [with] all people involved [in] the game of rugby in our jurisdiction to ensure compliance and integrity. We will do our best to prevent [a] recurrence [of] such incidents and pursue thorough[ly] the integrity policy continuously.”

No immediate decision about his playing future has been made until the proceedings of the criminal case in New Zealand is completed.

The case will return to court on August 3.

Loyal Lealiifano

Lealiifano offloads.

Lealiifano offloads.

The Brumbies are hoping to finalise a deal early this week to keep club man Christian Lealiifano in Canberra as well as setting it’s sights on a particular flick passing, Queensland fan favourite, Quade Cooper.

It’s fair to say the Brumbies lacked attacking spark this season and they have set their sights on bringing in X factor to the roster for 2019.

However it remains unlikely that Cooper will be willing to join Lealiifano unless the enigmatic playmaker changes his decision to fight it out in Brisbane’s Club Rugby scene.

Dan McKellar has a handful of roster spots to fill despite the squad sizes dropping from 39 to 36 and may not have time to wait around for a Cooper.

Crusaders back-rower and 3 Test Wallaby legend Pete Samu is the only confirmed recruit, replacing  Isi Naisarani but it’s understood the Brumbies are on the lookout for two extra backs as well as upgrading some of their home grown talent.

Hooker Connal McInerney is hoping to secure his first full-time contract after taking his chances within the wider squad and Wallabies under-20s prop Tom Ross is expected to be added to the wider training group.

Lealiifano is looking for a contract extension to play one final season in Super Rugby, making him eligible for the Wallabies before most likely leaving for Europe the following season in 2020.

The cool headed playmaker is considered a vital piece (and has been for years) in the hopes of building upon their late season surge despite 10 players already departing from the club.

Coach Dan McKellar spoke to The Canberra Times and had this to say on recruitment and retention.

“Talks are well underway. We’re well aware we’ve got to add some players to our group to get the full squad and to go forward next year,” McKellar said.

“From a coaching point of view, we have to make sure we’re adding the right type of players who will allow us to improve.”

The Brumbies had a strong finish to their campaign and co-captain Sam Carter was optimistic about what might lie ahead for them in 2019.

“We’ve got to have a good, solid review of the season and working out what was good and what were the negatives,” Carter said.

“Putting too much pressure on ourselves definitely didn’t work. We were worried about the result early in the season and we just didn’t play, we tensed up.

“This year some young guys showed they can cope at this level and they got more experience at this level. That’s something we need to build on. We’ve got some stability next year, but we are losing some key players as well.

“We’ve had players move on over the past couple of years and we’ve always rebounded and rebuilt ourselves in a new way, so that will be no different next year.

“I hope [Lealiifano] is back out there again next year because we’ve seen what he can do when he’s fit and healthy.”

Walsh’s Woes

Tim Walsh during Aussie Women training session

Tim Walsh during Aussie Women training session

The honeymoon period for new men’s sevens coach Tim Walsh is well and truly dead in the water after his side exited at the very beginning of the World Cup tournament.

In San Francisco at AT & T Park, Australia fell at their very first hurdle on Saturday morning, going down to France 22-17 in an upset loss.

The Australian team will be forever haunted by the very French looking (cough cough) Tavite Turaganibuli Veredamu, who starred for the opposition, scoring twice in the upset victory.

Things looked good when Lachie Anderson ran onto a grubber for the game’s first try.

But a follow-up five-pointer went begging and the game turned, and not in our favour, from that point on.

France replied and then went ahead with the final play of half-time when Terry Bouhraoua dashing from inside his own half for a 12-10 lead at the half time interval.

Poor defence once again hurt this young Australian side in the second half but they still had opportunities to win it, down by five with ball in hand after the hooter.

A knock-on however snuffed out the fairy tale finish and any chance of a World Cup crown in what has been a frustrating season for Walsh’s men.

“Everyone’s hurting immensely; but you can’t win games when you let through that many breaks, missed tackles and at the end there, we’ve got control of the game, got the ball and we turned it over,” Walsh told the SMH.

“We’re disappointed because that wasn’t our best and errors there that cost us.”

Former women’s coach Walsh took over from Andy Friend after April’s Commonwealth Games and started with a bang, with the men having won the Sydney Sevens tournament earlier in the year.

Hamstrung by constant injuries, they’ve thrown up mixed results all year but entered the World Cup with a healthy squad and a bag full of confidence that a shot at the title was well and truly possible.

Instead they beat Canada, forcing themselves into the Challenge Trophy final, an award we would rather not have.

“It sucks, it’s horrendous,” Walsh said.

“You work so hard and you want to get out there and perform for family, friends and country … you give it everything and don’t get the result, it hurts.”

Meanwhile defending champions New Zealand defeated Fiji in the final 22-12 to claim the World Cup.

World Cup Bronze

Ellia Green was a welcome return for the Aussie 7's in Sydney

Ellia Green was a welcome return for the Aussie 7’s in Sydney

It wasn’t their ideal finish, (or ours either) but the Aussie Women’s Sevens team have ended their season with a bronze medal after downing hosts USA 24-14 at the World Cup in San Francisco.

From devastation of not making the final to the elation of claiming a bronze medal, Aussie Sevens co-captain Shannon Parry is proud of the way her side recovered from their setbacks and focused on the task at hand against the USA.

The USA side were no easy beats and the Aussies were forced to work overtime to take it out 24-14 against the hosts, in what was without a doubt their best performance of the tournament.

All the key areas that they had focused on pre-tournament, the breakdown, scramble defence and attacking direction all vastly improved to keep the hometown heroes to just two tries.

While they would have preferred to be taking on champions New Zealand in the final match of the weekend (and what would clearly be a grudge match), Parry was proud of her team in the post match interview with rugby.com.au.

“It’s obviously not the game we wanted to be playing in – we wanted to be in the next game – but credit to the girls,” she said.

“We’re proud of the effort, to come away with the bronze after that hiccup against France we really wanted to put on a good performance and I think we did that.

“It is definitely a true test of character when you do lose and you have a key moment and a key match like that.

“To bounce back the way we did – it was very tight through the first half but to then extend our lead in the second half was very pleasing.”

Parry pointed to the motivation of friends and family as a major player in not dropping their heads despite not quite living up to their expectations and qualifying for the final.

“There was a lot on the line in that game and I think a lot of the girls have a lot of family and friends here,” she said.

“We really wanted to put in a good performance and that told the tale in the end.

“Obviously we didn’t hit our marks – we wanted to be in that final and play for gold – but to come away with a medal is a very pleasing result for this squad.

“It’s the end of the season now and it’s time to rest, recover and look forward to the Olympic qualifying year, next year.”

 

  • Missing Link

    Morning all, what a weekend, really disappointed in the 7’s but honestly who was watching when we had a bumper weekend of Super Rugby finals! I must admit after Fooley fluffed the first kickoff, and the Tahs were looking down the barrel at half time, I was tempted to get some shut eye, but decided to see the game out which was well worth it.

    Naholo as good as he is, will be kicking himself after a high shot on rampaging Kepu, got up again and gave him another high shot… have never seen that before, but classic NZ move to stop at nothing to kill an attack inside their 22. It ended up being costly for Naholo with Phipps, Beale and Folau turning the screws although I was very nervous for the Tahs in the end but they somehow held up under pressure, If only the Rebels could have done the same the weekend previous.

    You could argue that the semi in CHCH is the worthy final, it’s going to be a cracker but at least it ensures there wont be an All kiwi final, the only thing we need to ensure if that the Crusaders don’t lose or the Lions don’t win, because I’ll be choosing sleep over an SA game.

  • onlinesideline

    This Mafi bloke sounds like a dead set nutcase. Having a spontaneous punch up with a bloke for a few minutes is one thing but to get together with your brother, hogtie your team mate, throw him in a car and terrorise the bloke with multiple instances of intense violence like that, over a period of hours is freakin’ unhinged. Period.

    Apparantley Mafi is in Japan answering questions by Japanese Rugby over the whole affair. I wouldnt be suprised if he throws someone out the office window over there and we wake up to breaking news out of Japan that he has lost it again. This bloke, if its all true, should do some hard time over this, regardless if Timani had a feel of sis for a moment.

    • Patrick

      From what I know of Japan he will be lying facedown on the floor apologising all day

      • onlinesideline

        I know they’re a kinky lot

      • Nutta

        Tasers are good for that.

  • Chinese Dave

    Mafi is lucky he did it in NZ, they seem to let rugby players get away lightly with assault, just ask Savea. In NSW he’d be looking at assault occasioning and unlawful detention, easily a few years to spend with his brother in close proximity.

    • John R

      A good highschool mate of mine is a police in Wellington, and he said the coppers were dead keen to go after Savea, but they were too scared of the high powered NZ Rugby lawyers.

      • Bobas

        Savea will probably get to hide behind the Statue of Limitations now.

        • Hoss

          You on fire today mate.

        • Dud Roodt

          If you’re going to go around making accusations like that willy nilly, we’re going to need you to sign an After Davided

        • Adrian

          Brilliant…was that A. Smith who said that first?

        • Dud Roodt

          It was indeed

        • Duvstar

          And not just a regular one, a Sawn After David as well

        • Dud Roodt

          They’re certainly the most serious kind

        • Bobas

          give me a wee tick

        • Brisneyland Local

          Pure Gold DR!

      • Chinese Dave

        I don’t understand why he isn’t also being charged with whatever NZs version of unlawful detention is.

        • onlinesideline

          Im sure there will be more charges to come. They just get the show going with one or two but then lawyer up as the facts come in.

        • Nutta

          Ask Peter Dutton.

          Ba-Boom Tish!

        • juswal

          I think they call it inlawful dituntion.

    • Funk

      Mafi’s not an aig, so they shouldn’t have any problems chucking the book at him.

      • Nutta

        I’ve been waiting for the out-cry but this has been up over 2hrs and Nada?1?

        How disappointing…

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          No need mate, it’s true not a wind up

  • Ed

    Well done to the Tahs on their win on Saturday. It re-emphasizes the balls-up by the lack of urgency from the Tahs against the Brums in that they have to play on Jo’burg.
    One for Adrian, Latu has to start on Saturday. Yes he does give away penalties but who else in the Tahs pack will clash with Marx at the breakdown?
    For all of Foley and Beale’s threats with ball-in-hand, the ABs must be looking at that defensive channel, which will have a new partner at 13, with relish. NSW’s 10-12 axis were 20 tackles made, 11 missed on Saturday. And somehow Folau has a blank in either tackle or missed for the game.

    • Nutta

      I agree on latte. I’m looking forward to Karl vs Latte on Sat as i see the wee bugger as about the only other no2 running about at the moment who could tag Karl out of the game

    • Missing Link

      Marx is so good at stealing the ball and re-distributing it to the other players in his team

      • Nutta

        John Smit, Bismark DP, Adriaan Strauss, Karl Marx… The Jarpies have had some good Hookers in recent years

        • Missing Link

          Agreed mate, they’ve had a wealth of hookers in their manifesto for a long time now. The only problem with South African rugby is they need a revolution of sorts, Their forwards have been good, often all their hard work is exploited by the backs who fail to find the means of producing a try, in comparison, teams like the Wallabies and All Blacks are able to capitalise under the same circumstances.

    • Adrian

      I’d agree Ed, Latu to start, and I’d add, more practice in terms of defence positioning for 10,12,13.

      Up until a couple of weeks ago the midfield defence was fairly ok.

      Apart from set pieces, Hooper stood at 10. I’m guessing Miller does that too, but not so experienced at organising those outside of him. Can be fixed.

      I think too that the rushing up by both Rona and Beale that lead to the first Highlander try was actually planned,…but didn’t work. I don’t think they will do it again.

      I think from a Wallaby point of view the midfield defence will be ok now that they are not doing wholesale rotations and more of less using the same pattern as NSW use.

      Kerevi got used to it v Ireland, and if he wasn’t injured, he’d be playing v NZ.

      Probably next can off the rank would have been TK, but with him injured, I guess Rona or Hodge. They can both tackle

  • Dud Roodt

    Just wanted to add my two bits: Beale, Folau and Foley seem to be getting the majority of the plaudits for Saturdays win – personally I think the real game changer was Nick Phipps.
    When we really needed someone to step up, I thought it was going to be a forward who would have to do it, but Phipps turned in a second half for the ages.
    His commitment, aggression and heart turned the game for mine.

    • onlinesideline

      Gutsy little bugger too !

    • Pedro

      Not disagreeing but Kepu for mine. He had some good carries and scrummaged well. Got subbed, then came on again following Paddy Ryan’s yellow to close it out with a few more high pressure scrums.

      • Bobas

        Paddy Ryan’s card was the filthiest offside I’ve seen. He can’t claim he thought a try had been scored as there was no whistle. Should have been red with a suspension to be served in nz at a ‘friends’ house.

      • onlinesideline

        and WHAT SCRUMS they were. I think 3 in 5 mins all very close to our line.

    • Nutta

      Fair call. I’m generally not a Fipps-Fan but credit where it’s due. He’s always had a big engine but his efforts had serious reward on Sat night.

    • Adrian

      Agree 100% re Phipps.

      He passed about 50 times in 60 minutes.
      Got to every ruck. Cleaned up messes about 5 times. Only one bad pass (which was collected anyway), one good box kick, one bad box kick. Kick into Hannigan wasn’t his fault, Hannigan shouldn’t have been there,… notwithstanding he had a good game otherwise.

      For me, Phipps was involved twice in the Foley try via getting back the ball, and the neat neat final switch pass.

      • Brisneyland Local

        Adrian, you know how much I dislike the bovine piddler. But credit where credit is due. He had a good game. Better than the other guys who seem to be drawing a lot more credit.
        But gee that first kick off mad me laugh so much I spilt my beer! Yep party foul I know!

    • moaning expat

      couldnt agree more. Man of the match easily.

  • D. Braithwaite’s The Brumbies

    Sad to see Dargaville leaving. He’s a good player and a dominant defender who has probably deserved more minutes than he is getting. I feel like Australia just has an excess of outside backs right now.

    I still hold out hope that we can entice Quade to Canberra as without him we would really be looking to sign someone like Hegarty or Paia’aua (neither of whom are available I believe). Toomua is going to the Rebels, which means we are in desperate need of an inside centre capable of creating some spark. Losing Godwin really does hurt. The addition of Quade would allow Lealiifano to shift to 12 (admittedly not ideal, but it’s okay) and our attack and game management would certainly improve. Quade’s in-field kicking is very underrated, especially at this level.

    Lastly, congratulations Waratahs on a spectacular second half. An extremely difficult assignment coming up this weekend in Joburg, but if you play like you did in the second half the entire match you should be feeling very confident. Question is, will the Lions’ defensive line out and breakdown work be too good? I suspect that the Waratahs will struggle against the Lions, who have probably the world’s second best breakdown specialists in Marx, a good attack and one of the world’s best defensive line out players in Mostert.

    • onlinesideline

      would also mean hes a potential Wallaby again – EOYT ?

    • disqus_NMX

      We always have an excess of outside backs and loose forwards, because fit, fast, reasonably skilled, 100kg blokes are a dime a dozen. But fit, fast, reasonably skilled, 120kg blokes are harder to come by, as are creative, highly skilled inside backs.

  • Mr Wobbly

    The $15k “slap on the wrist” handed to Mafi (and Timani) has nothing to do with the assault. That was for ignoring team orders to not go out and drink after the game. It’s also the maximum the Rebels could fine them.

    There will probably be some further sanctions to come.

  • Nutta

    The Mafi issue is interesting in terms of how we as a code handle issues at all and also when compared to other codes.

    It’s always been this unsaid, almost smug thing in Aus rugby that ‘our lads’ don’t tend to get mixed up in shite like the Mungo and BAFL guys do.

    How much of that is truth as opposed to good cover-up by our code, poor cover-up by other codes and truly just better/worse behaviour has not ever been categorically shown. That said, rugby tends to seem to have lesser issues in general. When considering that the likes of:
    • 3 Amigo’s litany
    • Cipriani pinching grog
    • Beale on the plane
    • Hunt, Slipper & Co
    • Phipps and his cow-suit
    • Etc etc
    These issues/events (rightly or wrongly) simply don’t have the same resonance nor connotations that our cross-code friends have had around amped up sexual assaults, home invasions, betting-scam accusations etc etc.

    Among this of-course is certainly recognition that our code is assisted by the lower profile of rugby here in Aus keeping issues damped-down – unlike say an AIB playing up in NZ, a Bok playing up in SA, a Mungo in Sydney or say a BAFL incident in Melbourne.

    For me there are three things on my mind:
    1. We weren’t there so we don’t know facts. Chances are no-one ever really will
    2. Allegedly it came up as a reaction to poor treatment of a woman. So do we turn a blind eye to one to not get the other? What sort of ‘violence’ does that inadvertently perpetuate?
    3. Fundamentally we are talking about people who are in the public eye because of size, aggression and physical capabilities. They aren’t there for rational decision making qualities nor intellectual conversation especially once bevvies are on-board. That doesn’t excuse criminal behaviour. But it’s a bit like looking at Shane Warne – a guy who was only ever visible because he could turn a ball – for moral guidance. It’s about as smart as looking to a Priest for sex advice…

    I guess that’s why we have team protocols in-place and transgressions of those need to be stomped on up-front as that would keep a lot of this from happening in the first place.

    • onlinesideline

      Nope – totally disagree re what you suggest may be mitigating factors.

      This issue here is not about looking at these guys as moral guidance or role models but whether he should go to jail – END OF

      1 Yes Groping is bad, very bad – full stop
      2. Yes, they play a physical game and are physical humans – full stop

      There is no link whatsoever between your points 2 and 3 above with what Mafi did.

      Yes you did say “that doesnt excuse criminal behavour” so with respect your points 2 and 3 are totally irreleavant and thus why raise them.

      You can’t be half pregnant. What Mafi did deserves hard jail time – FULL STOP.

      • Nutta

        There are no mitigating factors. Criminal behaviour is just that – criminal. No shying away from that. Grog doesn’t excuse it. Muscles doesn’t excuse it. Stupidity doesn’t excuse it. I’m not trying to make excuses for anyone especially as I was not there and I don’t know the context. That said, what is starting to come out in the media about it now appears quite damning of one side. And if that is true – supported by correct process of presumption of innocence until proven guilty of charged crime to a point beyond reasonable doubt – then absolutely throw the book and it lands where it should.

        What I am conscious of though is three separate factors:

        1) Lets not anyone start talking about ‘role models’ and I’m pleased no one has. These guys are not role models. They are footballers. They are role models of how to contribute to putting a ball over a white line. Nothing more. If these guys were making high-profile marketing dollars based on clean profiles (eg like Lance Armstrong did) then my opinion on that changes radically.

        2) In continuance of that point, reasonable & rational folk know where limitations and boundaries are via our interactions with larger, general society. I would suggest folk of $4-500k a year playing rugby don’t share those interactions and so lose that perspective. This doesn’t let them off the hook. They are still liable for what they do. But it reinforces the point to not look at them for any sort of guidance or elevated standard. It also reinforces why transgressions away from a Team Protocol are actually quite serious particularly as an early intervention to more gross perversions that may come later.

        3) As a father of daughters, as a brother of sisters, as a son of a mother, as an ex-bartender & bouncer who saw enough disrespect towards women over the years and who sometimes in my darker moments challenges myself over what I could/would/should have done, did it initially ring a bell for me at a philosophical level that someone may have got a smack because they were disrespectful towards a woman? My bloody oath it does and I won’t shy away from that. Way too often I’ve watched silence perpetuate cowardism. But again I say that with direct consideration of what I said at the top of this Reply about criminal behaviour being just that – criminal.

        • onlinesideline

          We are on same page Nutta except for your point 2 re these guys being in a bubble earning 500k a year. In short, no disrespect mate, just talking straight up, so f….king what. There is not one iota of lack of exposure these guys have to every day life to the extent they are not aware of normal limits and boundaries. Cmon mate who you kidding ?
          Most if not all of these Islander / Moari guys were not raised at Auckland Grammar or Sydney Grammar in a sheltered bubble and then shoe horned into a world of priviledged super rugby. If anything its the inverse, these blokes have been exposed to plenty of social situations where they have had every chance from an early age to observe and develop a sense of what is right and what is wrong and what choices lead to good and what choices lead to bad. These Islander guys are around violence, which is part of their culture, from an early age. They have had plenty of time to learn about brawling, groping sisters, being disrespectful … c’mon mate.

          This prick is fully responsible for what he did, he sounds like a bad apple.

          One could also argue that additionally these blokes have more chances than the average dude in an office job to vent through just living the life of a pro rugby player and that its not like they have been repressed in anyway doing something that is adverse to who thhey really are, which is big aggressive tough guy humans. They get to smash the hell out of other blokes every week for years. I would of thought that would give them even more connection with their own emotions and how to control them when it comes to physicality etc as opposed to the average office guy come weekend warrior who you had to deal with every weekend.

        • Nutta

          Dude you raise valid points and we are not far off each others opinions.

          At the risk of moving away from my carefully constructed ‘inarticulate brute’ alter-ego (as my wife labels it) and unmasking a little of my eye-wateringly boring night-time reading content, I believe in a type of Satre Existentialism; that a person is completely accountable for what they do here & now, in this moment, based on making a de Beauvoir type ‘good-faith’ decision-making standard.

          For me an individuals accountability has nothing to do with Freud or Jung and my sub-conscious because mum didn’t hug me enough. It has fk-all to do with Eysenck or Cattell and their billiard-ball behaviouralism that it’s somehow fated that I will act in a given, almost geometrical or algorithmic way dependent on where the other balls are on the table and how I grew up poor. I have some – but very very limited – agreeance with the likes of Dretske & Armstrong and the idea that physical disposition towards certain behaviours is based on genetic-inheritance factors, but not to the point of excusing deviant behaviours. But I also acknowledge I live in a world with a societal-judicial system built on those very ideals I decry above by allowing the concept of diminished-responsibility to enter a criminal discussion via firstly considering and then allowing obfuscating the mens-rea element of a crime as opposed to simply having a greater focus on the actus reus (‘I don’t really care why! Did he bloody well do it or not?”).

          And yes I nod-along with your point that those with advantages (such as high income and relative independence from less-affluent origins) almost by-default imbibe an arguable societal expectation of elevated behavioural-standards. However the natural Socialist in me prevents my outright agreeance with your opinion on that.

          All that said, thank you for an informed conversation. And a nod to this site – imagine having this chat on Roar? Fk me.

        • Hoss

          Alright – i’ll bite.

          Would you mind re-typing paragraph three in English and slowly (i dont read proper fast).

        • Nutta

          Freud & Jung were the coke-sniffing, morphine-addicted perverts who dreamed up psychoanalysis. They basically say that my conscious is driven by my sub-conscious which was basically set before I turned 5yrs old. Short version: I belt people because mum didn’t breast-feed or cuddle me enough.

          Eysenck & Cattell were two of the guys who dived into Behaviouralism and how people react under different influences and circumstances – it’s nuture over nature stuff. In very loose terms they generally state that behaviour is much like balls on a billiards table and the outcomes of peoples reactions are almost geometric to the forces around them. Go have a look at the Hawthorne Studies of the 1920’s by Mayo and Roethlisberger. They were essentially screwing around with working conditions (hot vs cold, light vs dark, small-group vs isolated etc) to see what then influenced behaviours/output. Short version: I belt people because I was surrounded by people who liked belting people.

          Dispositionalists believe up to 85% of your behaviour is physically inherited from your folks. Genetic pre-disposition stuff. Short version: Dad belted me so I had a predisposition to violence and so I like to belt others.

          All three of those ideas are loosely called ‘The Fatalist Schools’ and can be traced all the way back to the likes of Homer who would say ‘The Gods made me so angry I was overcome by rage and killed them.’ They are philosophies that basically say ‘nothing is truly your fault’ because what you do/say was set/controlled by others.

          I go the other way. I go along with the Existentialists the likes of JP Satre and Tomas Szars who say ‘You are what you do – don’t hide behind anything else.” This is more a Nietzsche ‘will to power’ outlook and goes back to the likes of Plato who would say ‘He made me angry so I killed him.’ The down-side of this outlook is I have no-where to hide. I am accountable for me. It also makes being a good Catholic very hard to justify because if i say I believe in God then I am saying something/one else has control over me (and that’s a contradiction of freedom & will)

        • Adrian

          Tick ✔️

        • disqus_NMX

          Fantastic stuff Nutta, talk about taking a rugby forum to the next level! I personally believe all of the philosophies you have mentioned are partly correct. Our behaviour is most definitely influenced by both nurture and nature…. but…. we can also consciously choose to override those influences. To override them, however, requires awareness and desire.

          In Mafi’s case, he may well be surrounded by a culture of smashing people if they have perceived to have done wrong, and thus he is influenced by that behaviour. But he is also well aware that smashing people can result in an assault charge. So in this case, he smashed someone who is outside the culture of smashing people, so he is in trouble with the law, and in trouble with the Japanese rugby community. Sounds like he’s going to pay dearly for this mistake of judgment.

          As far as the law is concerned, I don’t believe they would take any interest in Mafi coming from a culture of smashing people as a mitigating factor. The law IS the culture, and no one is above the law. The law does, however, most definitely take into account provocation. If you, say, randomly walk up to a stranger and smash them, you are going to get the heavy side of an assault penalty. But if some bloke sexually assaults your sister, and then you smash that bloke in retaliation, then you are going to get off a lot more lightly, and possibly nothing more than a warning. It also depends on how far you went with your retaliation, and what you were retaliating to. If someone grabs your sister’s butt once, and you punch him in the face once, then the penalty will be a lot lighter than if you beat him repeatedly until almost dead. But if someone rapes your sister, and you only punch him in the face once, then the judge is probably going to wonder why you didn’t punch him more. It also depends on who you are punching. The penalty will be a lot harder if you punch an elderly, female, or juvenile person, than if you punch a strong fit grown man.

          As someone stated before, none of us know the full facts. Apparently there was some wrong doing done to one of Mafi’s female relatives, but we don’t know if that was merely something like a mum joke, or if it was a vicious sexual assault, or something in between. The courts will find out, or at least try to.

          Fantastic conversation lads!

        • Nutta

          Regarding your 2nd paragraph and the context of smashing people who are familiar with getting/doing smashed, it was commented late last week that among sober, rational, semi-articulate folk then a well-timed and witty comment is often enough to discourage ugly behaviours (like disrespect towards a woman). However sometimes communication has to be in the ‘currency’ that those it’s aimed at place value in – and sometimes that currency is physical domination.

          All that said though, the whole hog-tied and jamboree road-trip is beyond that well & truly.

        • disqus_NMX

          The problem with the ‘currency’ of physical domination, is that only the physically dominant can spend it. Whereas anyone can make a well timed and witty comment, even to someone wittier, and they will get the message if they were in the wrong. Sounds like Mafi needs to learn to use his wit. And I wouldn’t be surprised if this incident leads to some soul searching on his part. I wonder if he reads this forum :D

        • Nutta

          Idoubt he will reflect. Aside from movies etc if you ever read interviews with true sociopath nutjobs like Mark Read (Chopper) and others, their ability to rationalise and avoid is very well honed. Dont worry, as far as Mafi is concerned it is all Timani’s fault 100%

        • Joe King

          People are responsible for their actions in the sense that they are doing what they want to do. At the same time, people can be ‘slaves’ to their own desires (whether those desires be a result of nature or nurture or both). Like an addicted alcoholic or gambler: they do what they want, even though they may not ‘want’ to want to do it at the same time. I think this can apply to all kinds of desires that lead to over-anger, narcissism, chronic laziness, etc, etc. Seeing people this way allows us to hold them responsible for their actions on the one hand, but at the same time, also show a level of compassion/non-judgementailsim where they might have a problem controlling particular desires, on the other hand.

        • Mitch Leach

          Is it possible to have a mix? Your last paragraph rings very true to me, whereby you are fully responsible for your actions with no where to hide. Everyone should have some innate moral sense of what they are doing is right or wrong. I would suggest many who belt people, know its wrong, but choose to belt because thy want to. Counter to all this, I see logic in your interpretation of Eysenck & Catnell, that what you are taught and your environment as a child can have an influence on what you perceive to be wright & rong, no? Still shouldn’t excuse you, merely explains why you do what you do. i.e. Belt people.

        • Nutta

          Can a person pick and choose a path? Of course they may. But recognise in doing so I am making a conscious decision that i am surrendering control to an outside party. We are saying the reason i am doing something is because someone else said so. We therefore divorce our responsibility for our action.

          The challenge/flaw/juxtaposition of Existentialism is saying no to any preconceived notion of what i should or shouldnt do and act on the basis of rational thought here & now. It gets hard quite fast for those with religious backgrounds to gel with because you can’t fall back on someone else’s pre-determined call. It has to be your call made on your decision and logic. No one else made me do anything – i chose.

          It gets a bit circular if you’re not careful.

        • Mitch Leach

          This chat on the roar would have gone to Foley vs Cooper and Hooper vs Pocock eons ago!

          Thanks for the delving into your night time ready Nutta!

        • Hoss

          Halle-bloody-lujah to point 1 Nutta.

        • Adrian

          It says it all.

          The attributes that make a good footballer and boxer are to some degree in conflict with the attributes of a model citizen or “role model”

          I won’t mention them all, but we cheer brutality on the field, but don’t want it at home

        • Hoss

          Ahhh, a juxtaposition you say.

          Very cerebral on here today. I need a bex and a good lie down.

        • Andy

          There are studies that show this. It’s like the whole Cam Smith thing now. People are surprised that he may have a nasty side to him. But that nasty/controlling side is likely why he is so addicted to training and being the best. It’s like the sporting version of the corporate psychopath

        • Adrian

          Bradman too.
          My father said that the first time he heard the C word was in relation to Bradman, and it was uttered by a relative playing grade cricket in Adelaide

        • Nutta

          Bill O’Reilly and numerous others outright disliked (near despised) Bradman over what was openly referred to as his narcissism

        • Adrian

          Heard that too Nutta

        • Nutta

          What? That I have eye-wateringly boring reading habits?

    • Attizar

      We expect the code to deal with these matters consistently but as fans our fans reactions are far from consistent. Public perception has a lot to do with it. The higher the regard for the player the lesser the reaction and often times the subsequent consequences.

      James Slipper is generally viewed as a good guy who has been enduring personal problems so would generally be welcomed back by many Reds fans. (Maybe not the coach). K Hunt has form and is a Mungo anyway so string him up. Interesting that Slipper tested positive twice and Hunt didn’t .(as far as I know)

      Dan Carter was convicted of drink driving in France and after an apology is returned to hero status.

      George Smith skips a cab fare, assaults a taxi driver and is detained for a number of days earlier this year in Japan. Barely a mention back here in Australia. He returns to Australia for a hero’s farewell season with the Reds.

      Respect for female family members is paramount in Tongan culture. So I understand that there would be some reaction to an offensive comment made in front a female relative. We haven’t heard the Mafi side of what happened but if what Timani says is true then the legal troubles for the Mafi brothers is only just getting started.

      Mafi should have the book thrown at him because this is sounds like a seriously scary incident. Most Rugby fans will agree because it’s petty horrific. On top of that he won’t get any leeway because he’s not considered a great of the game or even a Wallaby.

      He has played magnificently in the past for Japan. Unfortunately for him this will bring shame on Japanese Rugby and they will very quickly distance themselves from him.

      Regardless of any criminal outcomes this would appears to be a career ender. ( And rightly so) .

      Players don’t want that kind of team mate and clubs serriously don’t need that kind of drama on the books.

      • onlinesideline

        In instances like this this should be a global career ender. I would be appalled to see him move to French rugby but TBH I wouldnt be that surprised if he pops up a year later somewhere.

    • Brisneyland Local

      Nutta, you raise some really good points. It will always be a difficult issue. In reponse to your points:
      1. 100% spot on. The facts will come out in the court case.
      2. Timani needs to be punished for his side of events. But his actions do not warrant that alleged response.
      3. Yes rugby players are not regarded for their brains per se. In my old profession, the profession of arms, we trained our people to commit acts of violence and take life, but to know when and when not to. What was and wasnt within the laws of armed conflict, and rules of engagement. When being shot at, which by the way isnt that much fun, the ‘redmist’ can descend on the lads, it is about training and standards and smarts to know how to precisely contro agression. My view is that everyone knows, regardless of any provocation, and beers on board, that the alleged response that Mafi carried out was well beyond the pale. It is the behaviour of a two bit thug. It is the behaviour of gang land style mafioso! Not a professional footballer on nearly $400k a year.
      Overall just really dissapointing as it destroys all the publicity from what was a good season for the Rebels. Sad really!

    • Huw Tindall

      If we took the stated ABs approach that better people make better all blacks Mafi wouldnt be anywhere near a team roster. Wouldnt want to condemn someone for life based on one instance but it seems Mafi has form.

      • disqus_NMX

        I’m far from convinced that the All Blacks are “better people’. Talk about a subjective pile of crap. I cringe every time I hear someone talk about the “no dickheads rule”. I sort of feel like only a low-art dickhead would state that a “no dickhead rule” should be applied. A higher approach involves education and guidance, not exclusion. A better person helps out those in need rather than casting them aside. Exclusion should only be a last resort when all else has failed. Mafi needs help, education, and guidance so that he can fit into our culture correctly.

  • Pedro
    • onlinesideline

      brilliant

  • Brisneyland Local

    Morning GAGR’s! well like Hoss last week, it is 1000, and I am already completely over my days work! Glad to be thinking about rugby instead! BL’s points:
    – Mafi has to go. That is the behaviour of mafia, gang boy wannabe’s! Not professional sports men. If true, it is time for him to go!
    – Like most fans watching the Tah’s game, when I saw Foley fluff the kick off, I was pissing myself laughing! Thinking this will be a long night for the Blue boys! But credit where credit is due. And as most GAGR’s will know I bag the shit of Phipps! But I thought he really held them together! The occaisional shit pass, but he really drove things. But their first half defence was appalling! Their attack in the second fantastic. well done.
    – The Crusaders look very very good. Will be interesting to see how this weekends matches pan out.
    Over to you GAGR’s!

  • Bobas

    Probably a bit too soon but Mafi could find himself as 12th man on the Boomers roster if they continue qualifying for tornaments through Asia.

    • Nutta

      I was actually a bit disappointed with that fracas. But then again I watch NHL clips on U-Choob for fun and because I like the chivalry of their blu’s. I guess it says more about me than anything else.

  • Hoss

    Morning learned rugby followers,

    Jeez if (and there is always the presumption of innocence), but if Timani’s story is true then that whole affair could have had a very different and tragic ending – its actually quiet spin-chilling the connotations involved. There are always 15 sides to a story, but there is no justification at all for what allegedly occurred.

    Tah’s should be touched down in the Rainbow Nation by now. Be interested to hear their training plans for the week ? I am guessing recover today, light run tomorrow, Thursday into it, Friday captains run – how do they manage the workload and travel ? The effect of the loss to the Brumbies looms large i reckon.

    Having said that, maybe away from home, no home-town press, a little more relaxed, confidence up, free from injuries – its sudden-death and anything is possible.

    Watched a fair bit of the 7’s, the girls worked hard against the States – it was a close run thing to the last 3 minutes. The boys looked jaded and lost.

    Nice touch to see the Leader of the American peoples there for the Trophy Presentation, oh and Trump was there too.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/62e71f7615a6edae494a4ddd4641e3ceb214a1a9458c727344d24d7b88a4c241.jpg

    • Nutta

      I’m sure they will train well. That will do for some.

  • Bobas

    Wouldn’t mind seeing Quade playing against the Reds next year.
    Get Hunt while you’re at it.

    The Reds will finish 4th of the Aussie teams again, hopefully they play the sunwolves at home in the final round again and they have an Australian player on the other team that Ben O’Queef inexplicably red cards. So all can be forgotten in the offseason, because they were ‘trending up’.

  • Keith Butler

    Article in the Age on Saturday with a picture of Timani’s face which was a mess. Could easily have fractured eye sockets. If the allegations prove to be true then this could easily be jail time for serious assault for the Mafi brothers. Watching him playing for the Rebels you could see that he has a pretty short fuse. Rugby career could be well and truely over in Japan and who would touch him with a barge pole in Aus and NZ.

    • Nutta

      I’ve said before he always struck me as a bit of a Wayne Kerr. And he has backed that up with stuff that even we Peasantry are aware of: the Ben Lucas academy awards, the Doctor-Gate bullshite in the UK, the clear history of priors with team-mates and now this little fiasco which even if only 10% true would be enough to get most contracts shredded. So on the Ice-Burg principle (we only see 10%) I would say his goose is well cooked except for France (they like well-cooked geese over there – or at least their livers anyway)

      • Brisneyland Local

        Foie Gras
        all the way!

  • Adrian

    I agree that Mafi needs to have the book thrown at him.
    BUT
    What do we really expect?

    If you watch him play it is brutality personified. Mix that with well above average skills, determination, size and fitness, and he became the best 8 in the world.

    My point is, that over the years there have been plenty of these sort of men, but we haven’t heard about their off the field exploits.

    Some were famous NZ locks and props, some famous SA forwards, some famous English locks, and one or two Australian gentleman props.

    Professional contact footballers are like professional boxers,…. often nice guys, but not always.

    I would have had Mohamed Ali around for dinner, but not necessarily Mike Tyson

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Mate, with all due respect a bloody long way from the best 8 in the world. Yes great go forward and heart but no ability to link, no ability to read a game andf no idea on anything but go hard

  • Brisneyland Local

    Yep. Pure Nard Gold!

  • onlinesideline

    Closing and totally random thought before I hit the hay this evening / morning.
    Vegemite would have to be a contender for one of humanity’s greatest inventions.
    (Just scored a jar here in Budapest – its like Australia, ya just cant describe how good it is until you’ve experienced it)

    • Brisneyland Local

      Mate let us know and we will send it to you! Courtesy of GAGR dudes and dudettes.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Absolutely

        • Brisneyland Local

          A man cant go with out Vegemite! It didnt matter what third world crap hole war zone I went to, I never went with out vegemite!

  • IIPA

    Hopefully many of you have partaken at the humble pie buffett this morning. No shortage of Tahs knockers leading up to the game on Sat night. That said geez it looked like a case of “told you so” at halftime.

    Mafi is an idiot. Probably would have been one of the faces at the RWC and made a fortune spruiking Japanese whiskey a la Bill Murray post-career.

    Aussie 7s was disappointing but beaten by two much improved French teams. In the women’s its a case of the Kiwis increasing the gap between them and us and the gap back from Aust and Canada to the next tier ( France, US, Spain ) has narrowed.

    The men if anything are probably now lacking size ( where once we lacked speed).

    • Nutta

      Gotta say the subtlety of the communications between Bill “Don’t Drive Angry” Murray and Scarlett “Ghost in the Bodysuit” Johansson during Lost in Translation would be a wee bit beyond Old Mate Mafi I think.

  • adastra32

    Erm, I think it was England that NZ defeated in the 7s world final…

  • Kiwi rugby lover

    Thanks Ned,
    Be good to see a good 10 at the Brumbies although I’m happy with triple L there as long as they get a good straight running 12. Australia definitely needs to grow some good 10s

    So proud of our 7s. What a great double.

    Mafi just fuck off

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A self diagnosed rugby snuff who loves wet weather footy and still can't figure out how to put a photo up of myself

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