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Monday’s Rugby News

Monday’s Rugby News

Monday’s Rugby News, which has been released at 11:28ish (aka 32 to 12) to honour the crashed chariot, looks at the fallout from the World Cup final, Maddocks plans to return to Toyko next year and the Wallabies returning to their first home


Super Springboks

England v South Africa - Rugby World Cup 2019 Final

The Springboks have claimed their third World Cup with a 32-12 win over England in a brutal contest in Yokohama.

The match was a forwards wet dream, with both teams trading penalty goals over the first 55 minutes in a physical clash.

In the end, it would be the Springboks forwards that would get the upper hand and control the proceedings, rewarded when Makazole Mapimpi chipped ahead for centre Lukhanyo Am, who steamed onto the ball and turned it back to his teammate to score.

This would mark their first try in World Cup final history and they would not have to wait long for their second when Cheslin Kolbe crossed to put the result beyond doubt.

The incredible performance has sent South Africa into meltdown, with Siya Kolisi, the Springboks first black captain, overwhelmed at what his team had achieved for the rainbow nation.

“We have so many problems in our country but a team like this, we come from different backgrounds, different races but we came together with one goal and we wanted to achieve it,” Kolisi said.

“I really hope we’ve done that for South Africa. Just shows that we can pull together if we want to achieve something,

“Since I’ve been alive, I’ve never seen South Africa like this,

“Thank you so much. We love you South Africa and we can achieve anything if we work together as one.”

Coach Rassie Erasmus thanked the support from the Springboks fans in the stadium and back home, believing that it drove them to new heights.

“To the Springbok supporters, I would like to say we never felt alone here in Japan. We felt them all the way,” said Erasmus.

“Not just the supporters in Japan but also those back home. All the messages, all the WhatsApps, all the Facebook, the Twitter feed. We know there’s millions there and we know they support us.

“We love them and I can’t wait to get back home.”

Empty Eddie

e jones

England coach Eddie Jones was lost for words after England’s disappointing loss, believing that his side simply came up against a better team in South Africa.

After their dominant win over New Zealand a week ago, England’s players and fans were stunned by the overwhelming pressure laid on by the Springboks forwards.

No one was as more devastated as Jones, who had no real explanation for their performance other than South Africa simply being better.

“I don’t know why we didn’t play well today – it’s something that happens in higher level rugby,” the Australian told a press conference on Saturday.

“We thought our preparation was good but this happens sometimes and it isn’t a good day for it to happen. You can have the most investigative debrief of your game but they were too good for us on the day.

“We got in trouble in the scrum, we struggled in the first half, made some personnel changes in the second half and got back into it. We stayed in the fight and were in with a chance but for some reason South Africa were too strong for us.”

After the loss, questions turned to his future, with the Sydney Morning Herald revealing that Jones hadn’t received any formal contact from Rugby Australia about coming home.

He was coy about his rugby future, channelling Victor Radley when asked about what came next.

I don’t think that’s relevant at this stage,” he said.

“I’m just thinking about my team, they’re hurting badly enough.

“The only thing I’m worried about now, is having a few beers.

“And after we have a few beers today, we’ll probably have a few more beers tomorrow. And then probably Monday. And then maybe we have to pull up stumps.”

Tokyo dreams

Jack Maddocks eye to eye with Samu Kerevi  Reds v Rebels 2019

Forgotten winger Jack Maddocks has set his sights on returning to Japan next year as part of the Australian Sevens side for the Olympics.

The Rebels flyer travelled over with the Wallabies as one of the standby players before the tournament started after narrowly missing the 31-man squad.

Since then, he has linked up with the Sevens program in Germany, playing five matches in the Oktoberfest 7s.

The 22-year-old has continued to train with the side as they prepare for the Olympic qualification tournament in Fiji and has relished the opportunity to focus on the singular goal whilst hoping to balance both 7s and 15s if they are successful.

“I’m hugely motivated…XVs is week to week, you’re only really preparing five days for a game, whereas here the boys have been preparing almost five months for this one tournament,” he said.

“We’re really, really prepared, it’d be an awesome feeling to go over there and get the reward for all the hard work that’s been put into it.

“If they qualify for the Olympics, I’d love to be able to take part in that but I’m also keen to get back into Xvs and have ambitions in there too so a lot of it’s out of my hands.

“I enjoy playing both and I’d like to play as much footy as I can so if I can do both, I’d love to do both.”

His exclusion from the World Cup squad has allowed the 22-year-old to develop a brand new perspective about rugby extending beyond the bubble of the Wallabies camp.

“I guess sometimes when I had my time in that setup because you’re so protected from the outside world,” he revealed.

“I mean Cheik was great with that, he’d go out of his way to make us feel more comfortable, but I guess sometimes going in there you felt like whether it’s overseas or something, you’d feel like you were in enemy territory and it’s 15 of you or 30 of you verse them.

“Sometimes you forget the pubs and, whether it be TVs at home, everyone’s back home supporting and I guess when you play for Australia, you’re representing everyone and that’s what it means to play for Australia.”

Sydney Rugby Ground

Rugby at the SCG Waratahs v Rebels 2019 (Credit Keith McInnes)

The Wallabies are set to return to the Sydney Cricket Ground for the first time since 1986 when they host Ireland on July 11 next year.

With ANZ Stadium set to be out of action from the second half of 2020 and Allianz Stadium still under construction, Australia return to the ground that hosted the first international match back in 1899.

The clash will mark 34 years since the last international match at the ground, which Australia won 26-0 against Argentina and the third time that both teams have faced each other at the historic ground.

The July 11 clash will be the second Test of a two-match series against Ireland, with the Wallabies set to kick off the home international season against the former number one ranked side at Suncorp Stadium on July 4.

“The Sydney Cricket Ground is one of the most iconic venues in Australian sport and has hosted some of the most famous Rugby Test matches ever played in this country,” CEO Raelene Castle said in a statement.

“Returning there in 2020 for the second Test against Ireland will be a nostalgic experience for those who watched Test matches there through the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s, and a chance to be part of history for the younger generation watching a Test at the SCG for the first time.

“The last time these two countries played in Sydney the Stadium and the whole Paddington and Moore Park precinct came to life and was flooded with fans wearing green and gold, not to mention the on-field action which went right down to the wire as Ireland pipped the Wallabies to win the Series.”

Sydney Cricket Ground CEO, Kerrie Mather said: “The SCG is the original home of the Wallabies having hosted Australia’s very-first Test match in 1899.

“There have been so many memorable Test matches at the ground and we look forward to seeing the next generation of Wallabies add to the SCG’s rich Rugby history.”

The Ireland test series will mark the first challenge for the new Wallabies coach after Michael Cheika resigned from the role after their quarter-final loss against England

  • Bernie Chan

    Great result for the Bokke and South Africa. Deserved winners on the night.

  • Hannes En Brianda Barnard

    The Boks played a brilliant tournament with the exception of a five minutes in the first match against the AB. The AB is such a lethal attacking side that you can not switch of at all as they will make you pay. Although the Boks fought back in the second half the gap was to big to close. Losing that game worked out well for the Boks as they could get to the finals without being burdened with the favourites tag and the media presence what come with it. They only lost a single test this year and always had the game and players to win it. I don’t think that the All Blacks would have won that final.

  • Richard Patterson

    Special congratulations to South Africa and all their millions of loyal fans. They are an iconic rugby nation rich in history, tradition and success. They delivered an epic performance on the biggest of stages and to the victor goes the spoils. After a succession of very modest performers, enormous credit here must go to Rassie Erasmus who bought rugby intelligence to a coaching staff that too often lacked what is required at international level. He matched brain with brawn, class with desire and walked the delicate line of selection with great effect. Springbok fans should be indebted.

    Anyone wondering how difficult it is to win this tournament (or questioning the element of good fortune required) should look no further than the 2019 version. After losing their opening match, the Springboks played out their quota of pool matches, witnessed Japan upset Ireland and then found themselves on the side of the draw with a path to the final involving a plucky, but not fearsome Japan and a modest, but not threatening Wales. They arrived in Tokyo Saturday with a full tank of gas needed to go one step higher. Compare that to England who had their final pool game cancelled then embarked on a trail involving old enemy Australia and tournament favourite New Zealand. Their success was enormous, but was the cost getting there too high? Saturday to me showed that perhaps it was.

    My final point here relates to the Springboks approach to the selection of overseas based players and how long (or soon) is it before that model is replicated here Down Under? Currently South Africa employ no restrictions, Australia have “the Giteau rule” and New Zealand have a zero exception policy. With the ever clearer “international windows” being drawn up by World Rugby, is the day near when the money from the Northern Hemisphere becomes too great and selection eligibility rules must be adjusted. We all know the financial strains going on Grassroots rugby. How much better, or worse, would rugby be if the top 5-6 players were playing in England or France and their not inexpensive salaries were freed up to be channeled into development systems designed to finding the next 5-6? God help us if we ever went the way of Brazilian soccer where 0% of the national squad play domestically – but is there a middle ground that eventually must be found? Right now South Africa have a competitive advantage over AUS/NZ with selection policy in the same way England have one with financial resources. To survive down here do we need to wise up? How brave are those intellectual geniuses running the game down here willing to be?

    A special thank you to everyone who has contributed to this website this season. Your efforts are appreciated. A big thanks to all those who fill the comments section with insightful, intelligent rugby analysis. Some add a good dose of humour. The passion is infectious. You all know who you are. Enjoy your summer break everyone.

    • AllyOz

      G’day Richard, excellent post. I wonder if, in some way, our restrictive policy actually encourages the loss of players. The English and French clubs know, when they contract an under 60 cap Australian player, that they have exclusive use of them. They may even be prepared to pay a bit more for this exclusivity. I think at the very least with players like Kerevi, we need to be putting more into the flexible contracting area and, if required, working directly with Japanese clubs so that our players are playing there (perhaps less demanding and shorter season than UK/France) and, at the very least, playing part of Super Rugby and the home tests. That might mean we play more of a development squad for the November tests each year (or rely more on those that choose to go to the UK).

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Well said mate. An awesome final weekend of rugby and a fitting end to a great tournament. Personally I think the depth of rugby in NZ is enough for the rules there to remain unchanged. Not so sure here but also very wary of the affect this will have on the Wallabies. It may work as it has for the Boks this year but I think there are some risks especially on the effect it will have on local rugby and whether that may turn more players to other codes earlier and we lose out completely. I’m not so sure that if the good players were in Europe the current funding would be available to use in finding the next 5 or 6. Not sure sponsors and donators will provide the same level of support for development if there is no one there to showcase their support.

      • Richard Patterson

        Good points as always KRL. Enjoy the off season.

  • Patrick

    Well done Boks, they started the tournament best placed to win it and finished it by winning it. Both they and England look like having the roots of a solid team for the next four years as well!!

    But much more importantly both teams were at their nadir four years ago and look where they are now… RA should be studying, hard, what both teams did, because clearly there is hope for us too!!

  • Patrick

    What a great tournamnent! World Rugby’s self-congratulatory press release is deservedly so: https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/538379, and almost even more important is this one about player safety: https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/531156 (although this was before the final!!)

    I think the management of the rule changes was brutal but since the team I tipped before the tournament still won it I’m going to say it didn’t have that much of an impact overall, and if it really was those rule changes that contributed to the improvement in player safety then I’m ok with them. In the long-term this is one of the most important things World Rugby can be focusing on.

  • Missing Link

    Congratulations to the Springboks, they clicked at the right moment to bring down the form team of the tournament who were on a roll.

  • Crescent

    Congratulations to the South Africa – they worked hard all game and deservedly took home the chocolates. Commiserations to England – came into the tournament in a good place, put in some notable performances and just found themselves strangled out of the game. They still worked hard to the death to try and find the decisive moment where they could take the game away from South Africa and fell short.

    Don’t know about it being a forwards wet dream, but it was certainly Finals footy – take the points when available and work for the full 80 minutes.

  • Nutta

    Morning Y’All

    Thoughts & feelings from a sensitive guy:

    A bridge too far for the Eng. Wobblies then AiB then Jarpy’s in 3wks would be an enormous emotional mountain for any side any time in history to climb.

    2nd time EJ lost a Bill Final (1st person to achieve that?) and again showed he underestimated the impact of the scrum. By picking Baller Props (V’pola & Sinkler) and loose-style Locks he showed his general disdain for scrummage again. And it cost him again.

    It was actually to Eng benefit that Sinkler was replaced. Whilst I don’t like seeing folk hurt, tactically Mtamawira (?) would have made him eat a yellow in front of Garces I feel. Whereas Coles, esp once joined by Marler and Kruis actually got some parity – but the die was cast by then.

    Jarpy’s were clearly concerned about Tuilagi. Notice the Bokke wide Blitzer always went at him first and only slid inside when he was clearly out of it?

    Anyone else notice the 2nd half attempt by the Jarpys to set the mid-field maul? At first I thought it was an old-fashioned flying wedge. Nearly worked but I think it was Lawes smartly tackled the ball carrier and dropped the whole thing.

    The Jarpy’s were in better physical shape coming into the game. It showed. And their bench carried the day.

    Two great tries to close it out were window dressing. This game simply reinforced the old adage that the first man picked should always be your No3 and the second man picked should be your replacement No3.

    My MOTM was Malherbe followed by Pieter Stef DuToit (apologies to all Jarpy’s on my massacring of spelling).

    A little surprised by EJ’s comments: firstly in that teams get overawed or have a bad day at all levels of competition from the U6 to the Big Boys, and then to say they were stunned by the intensity and pressure of the Jarpy’s? It was a Bill Final and it was the Jarpy’s so what was expected?

    Maddox going to the 7’s? You go where you get luv lad. Good luck to you.

    Test Rugby at the SCG? Really? I’ll stay at home where I actually get to see the game then. Good revenue raiser I guess but another lost opportunity to play a big game in a more unusual/unique location in the name of spreading the word.

    • Ads

      Thought the same thing re Eddie. Done over by the scrum/set piece. Again. There is lots to criticize Cheik for, but our tight 5 (& bench) is the best I recall (& I’m not that interested in whether you credit that to Cheik or not – the point is re Eddie). I was keen to consider Eddie, but see he still hasn’t learnt that lesson after that game so maybe not.
      Congrats Saffas. Good result for world rugby. Saw an interesting piece saying they have the highest success rate now, having not been allowed to compete the first couple. Good on em. And their “diplomatic immunity”.

      • laurence king

        I think that the English set piece has been pretty good all tournament, so the final caught me by surprise, don’t quite think that Eddie was to blame for that one.

        • Ads

          Hey Laurence, as per Nutta’s original thread he preferred mobility and dynamism in the tight 5 I think. It wasn’t as bad as with the wallabies 2003. It was good enough for the tournament up until South Africa. Just saying it’s a factor and Eddie has history there. Biggest impact is most likely trying to play Aus, kiwis, saffas 3 weeks in a row for the poms.

        • AllyOz

          also the Argies the week before that who aren’t a push over

        • laurence king

          I think that pack held up pretty well against us and the Kiwis, and we rate ours, so maybe the Saffas found more to play for on the night and as you said 3rd tough game was one too much. In regard to Eddie miscalculating, maybe they believed their own press a little too much.

        • laurence king

          Not long after Eddie’s stint as coach of the Wallabies, I remember reading that he had tried to get a training camp for props or something along those lines. And that he had been knocked back on the proposal by the board. I think that that was in 2002 or something like that (pre world cup at any rate.) So the indications are that he became aware of his erroneous thinking, tried to remedy it and was thwarted by the powers that be.

        • John Tynan

          The one where Coles got penalised about 25 out or so was actually Saffer boring in at 45 degrees. I’d say hard done by, but more like poetic justice.

        • Greg

          Given all of the penalties in the scrum, I was amazed that one of the white front row did not get a card.

          You can argue whether the penalties were correct, but if given then after so many a holiday beckons.

    • Singapore Sling

      England were penalised for sacking that open field maul and I thought at the time it was the turning point. Everything the Jarps were doing was working and the Poms were shell shocked.

      • John Tynan

        I saw it as a sacking as well, rather than collapsing a maul. No diffeent to a lineout, i would have thought.

      • Crescent

        I had a listen to the referee – penalty was offside against White 13 (Tuilagi) – edit – apologies – advantage for taking down the maul was awarded, and the subsequent infringement that was in a better location for kicking was the offside.

    • Who?

      Nutta, I thought Garces had a shocker. The scrum penalties that were kicked, over half of them were dud calls. SA had dominance, but scrum to scrum, they weren’t consistent. For instance, there was a scrum – kicked for points – where England were penalized for walking around, when it was pretty clearly that the English props were the second to start moving. And another 3 points where England were penalized for collapsing, where the Beast had walked around and driven into Cole at 90º.
      .
      The rolling maul you mentioned? Garces blew it as England collapsing the maul, for the original tackler, who was on the ground was he made the tackle. So that was a wrong call. But it was, as you rightly point out, a flying wedge, which is still clearly illegal under the laws. So, SA again got 3 points when they should’ve been penalized.
      .
      By my count, 4 of the 6 penalties awarded to SA which were kicked for points were incorrect.
      Then factor in that Faf should’ve been off after SA gave away 3 consecutive penalties and a further three unawarded advantages on their tryline late in the first half…
      .
      I say that as someone with no love for England, no wish for them to have won. I like Eddie, but there’s nothing more insufferable than England after they’ve won something. Especially when they already won the CWC this year – the only nation ever to have won both the CWC and the RWC in the same year is Australia (99) – we want that record. And there was some terrible play – Youngs’ passing into touch, etc. But the scoreline absolutely flatters the Bokke, and we were robbed of a much tighter contest.

      • Neil Pocock

        I totally agree….. I was watching closely and just started shaking my head and couldn’t be bothered anymore! I mean it’s the World Cup final for crying out loud!

      • Singapore Sling

        Has there been any clarification from world rugby on why South Africa were awarded a penalty for the flying wedge? It was pretty clear it was their day with that penalty coming immediately on the back of England scoring. I have to admit to warm feeling of nostalgia when they pulled that off. They’d clearly rehearsed it which indicates they believed it was legal.

        • Who?

          No need for clarification – Garces was pretty clear it was for ‘collapsing the maul – England 18′. Burke and Bray described it as ‘milking a penalty’ – 18 was the tackler, he wasn’t on his feet when he joined, and SA took the maul down after they chewed over him.
          .
          The Flying Wedge isn’t legal, hasn’t been legal for decades. But it also hasn’t been enforced, and SA has always been the team that’s pushed that law more than anyone else, with latching and the like. It’s Law 9.22.

        • Singapore Sling

          Sorry for not being clear but it’s the flying wedge I’d like clarification on. What made them rehearse and implement a formation that’s illegal. They must have believed their execution was legal.

        • Who?

          Oh, ok. I think they just realize that the referees no longer care about that law. They don’t enforce it. There’s been plenty of occasions it could’ve been enforced over the past few decades, but it’s never been penalized.
          Generally, there’s video clips of foul play in the laws these days. There’s no example footage for the Flying Wedge or Cavalry Charge.
          For mine, they should either start enforcing it or remove it from the books. But given how dangerous it is (Cole effectively sacrificed himself to the boots of 8 runners, one man against 900kg – it’s not safe), I don’t see any justification for not using the law.

        • Singapore Sling

          It’s actually ridiculous that it was allowed when you think about the subtleties of interpretations applied to the refereeing of a modern rugby game. I can excuse a referee for missing the odd flattish forward pass or erring occasionally with breakdown and scrum infringements but failing to grasp the illegality of eight huge men joining as one violent midfield formation in a world cup final beggars belief.

        • Nutta

          It’s about not being pre-bound. Once someone gets hit you can bind. As the laws stand now there is nothing wrong with being in contact pre-engagement and then binding on contact (ostensibly after contact). My point is I can stand behind and left/right the ball carrier with chest/shoulder on his back and provided I can coordinate it I can run with him into contact – effectively making 2x110kgs = 220kg ball of manluv moving at 3/4 speed – and I’ve done nothing wrong.

          Alternatively I do the Saffa Latch and bind on a guy charging forward (shoulder and scruff of shorts), then propel him forward (more precisely throw him at an opponent) immediately prior to contact – effectively still 1x110kgs but now moving with more force/power – and then run straight onto him again and bind and I’ve done nothing wrong.

        • John Tynan

          If the ball is at the front at contact, I think it is still OK. They just can’t have the ball squirelled away at the back until after contact with a tackler.

        • Who?

          That’s for obstruction, not for the Flying Wedge or Cavalry Charge. Here’s the 2013 Laws definition of the two events. It was illegal then under Law 10.4 (p):
          ‘Flying Wedge’. The type of attack known as a ‘Flying Wedge’ usually happens near the goal line, when the attacking team is awarded a penalty kick or free kick.
          .
          The kicker tap-kicks the ball and starts the attack, either by driving towards the goal line or by passing to a team-mate who drives forward. Immediately, team mates bind on each side of the ball carrier in a wedge formation. Often one or more of these team mates is in front of the ball carrier. A ‘Flying Wedge’ is illegal.
          .
          ‘Cavalry Charge’. The type of attack known as as a ‘Cavalry Charge’ usually happens near the goal line, when the attacking team is awarded a penalty kick or free kick. Either a single player stands some distance behind the kicker, or attacking players form a line across the field some distance behind the kicker.
          .
          These attacking players are usually a metre or two apart. At a signal from the kicker, they charge forward. When they get near, the kicker tap-kicks the ball and passes to a player who had started some distance behind the kicker.
          .
          .
          So, to my read, the issue isn’t when it happens (i.e. it doesn’t have to be near the goal line), or that it’s off a PK or FK. The law says, “Usually,” not “Always.”
          Neither is the fact that ‘OFTEN’ one or more of these team mates is in front of the ball carrier’ – because that’s not used as justification for the illegality. If it were, there’d be no reason for a separate law, because ‘obstruction’ is sufficient to cover that.
          .
          The issue is that the players are running as a pack in close proximity and often pre-bound. It’s not a safe environment to expect someone to make a tackle.

        • Crescent

          Ok – so I have done a bit of a search for the relevant play, because it stood out to me at the time, and I wanted to do some digging in the cold light of day.

          Background – the Law 9.22 states teams must not use the flying wedge. However, a flying wedge is set out in the definitions, stating it happens when the attacking team is awarded a penalty or free kick, and to paraphrase, the wedge is set up from the tap with the fly half advancing, or the receiver taking the pass from the fly half and immediately having team mates bind onto the ball carrier.

          Note the flying wedge can only be formed from a penalty/free kick situation where the tap is taken, because the concern is the wedge getting an effective clear 10m run up, making the wedge dangerous. This limitation is what makes pre-binding legal. The other factor is Law 9 concerns dangerous play – if the referee is satisfied this is not dangerous, then they may deem there is no penalty applicable.

          So, in this case, the ball is thrown into the lineout, goes to the first breakdown where the 6-8 forwards are standing and the recipient takes the ball in. So it is in general play, ball received by a stationary recipient, deemed to be prebinding as opposed to a flying wedge and non dangerous. Garces ultimately awards the penalty for offside against White 13. Was deadset about milking a penalty and a bloody clever play to either get a kickable shot, or draw more players into the middle of the park to try and generate some space outside for the like of Kolbe to exploit. Anyway, that is the best I can make of it from doing a bit of a search out of curiosity.

        • Singapore Sling

          Thanks for taking the time and your response.

        • Who?

          You’ve missed an important couple of words. You’ve said:
          stating it happens when the attacking team is awarded a penalty or free kick,
          .
          You’ve missed ‘Usually’. This is important. It’s setting out when it commonly happens, not the only time it can happen. Because if that same ‘usually’ were applied to the formation of a maul, we could equally say, “A maul ‘usually’ happens off the back of a lineout,” but that would discount choke tackles and the like.
          .
          You’ve also missed the definition of the twin offence, the Cavalry Charge, which doesn’t require pre-binding.
          .
          I have to note, I’ve been railing against ‘latching’ (pre-binding onto the ball carrier – something the Bokke do with regularity, and which has been widely adopted following their example) for the best part of a decade.

        • Crescent

          Absolutely correct in your assessment – the legalistic weasel words to create “discretion” – thought I would spend more words on my view of what Garces would have been assessing. I had a look at the cavalry charge definition while I was there, but if I was holding the whistle, the Bok formation did not meet this definition in my view. I would have been looking at the flying wedge aspect. Probably why I am not a referee!

          Have to say, the latching gets on my tits, along with the tackled player crawling several metres or trying to get up without releasing the ball from the tackle. Once the knees are on the ground, as far as I am concerned, they need to release before making another play at the ball. Given the emphasis on making the tackler provide a clear release and roll away, I feel the release by the ball carrier needs to be properly enforced – have seen plenty of crawls and what not in the last few seasons that are really taking the piss – but that is probably another topic for another day….

        • Who?

          If you thought ‘Flying Wedge’ (which Burke actually called during commentary – not as an offence, just as a formation), then you were a few steps ahead of Jerome…
          .
          I don’t consider this to be at the referee’s discretion as to whether or not it’s dangerous, only as to whether or not it’s a flying wedge or cavalry charge.
          .
          Totally with you on crawling and the like. In fact, the laws state not only should the tackler release, but the ball carrier – once tackled – needs to roll away. Not just the tackler, but also the ball carrier. When did you last see that penalized?

        • Nutta

          Never been legal to be honest. And I see that many others have loaned far greater knowledge than I. However for me, the Saffa’s have been latching more and more for about 3yrs now. What they did there was just an extreme extension of latching.

      • Nutta

        Hey. I watched it for a 2nd time and i largely agree – it was a lottery. But what it did do was reinforce the general coaching message of make sure you go forward first then do whatever the hell you like.

      • adastra32

        Indeed with Farces it is always a lottery. But both teams know this. Only one played it smart with that knowledge. Well done SA. Deserved. Now all we have to do is wait another four years….

        • Who?

          You can say that, you’re supporting England. I didn’t have a horse in the race, so I was wanting a contest, and I watch refs at the best of times. :-)
          The knock on against Itoje? I should mention, that wasn’t Garces, that was Poite. He was the touchie who made the call, it was all literally under his nose.
          .
          And when you’re talking about inconsistencies in refereeing – especially at the scrum – that’s not something you can deal with by being intelligent. If one team’s allowed to walk around and the other is penalized for the first team walking around… There’s no way to deal with that sort of incompetence.

        • adastra32

          To be clear, refereeing incompetence is not to be condoned. And yes, a competitive game is very desirable – probably more by Eng supporters than anyone else in this case! But if you are up against such a lottery, then the successful teams are usually those that can effectively ‘manage’ refereeing perceptions – I think Nutta below sums it up pretty well regarding the scrum. England did not and paid the price.

      • Human

        Who, I know bugger all about scrums yet thought that at least one penalty to RSA could have gone the other way, however almost every scrum penalty in any game is somewhat debatable.
        I also saw at least 5 high shots and/or shoulder charges and 2 tackles in the air by the Poms that did not even draw a word from Skeen let alone a penalty or a card.
        Such is rugby.

        • Who?

          The lack of penalties for high shots and shoulders is consistent with the other knockout games. It’s like we got to the QF’s and the refs were told to put away the cards and stop focusing on high shots.
          And Mr Skeen was clearly told to stop interrupting.
          .
          If anyone had taken odds for the refs for the final, do you think anyone would’ve picked Garces as ref, Poite and O’Keeffe as the touchies, and Skeen as the TMO? It’s arguably the worst possible mix of the top guys.

        • Nutta

          I think they were told to put them away. Clearly.

    • I have some sympathy for Eddy’s comments. You would normally look at the English scrum and say it’s way up there in the world rankings, as is their lineout. Remember that this is a pack that is good enough that Hansen made a mess of his selections by starting Scott Barrett at 6 for the previous week.

      Youngs looked like he was all over the place – and not only when the rucks were being smashed around. The Underhill and Curry duo looked ineffective against Kolisi and du Toit. The defensive system that looked so good against the ABs struggled against a totally different attacking plan. Ironic, really, given it’s basically their own attack plan that they couldn’t defend against – work the set pieces, and hammer big runner after big runner into the defensive wall until it cracks.

      The English presumably had a plan, similar to the ABs, to try and find rough parity in the set pieces and run the bigger pack around the park and tire them out. That really didn’t work. Could a different plan have produced a different result? Well yes – Wales went out with a different plan and produced a much tighter result where the outcome was in the balance until the last minute. But for a penalty in the last few minutes, it could easily have gone to extra time and who knows…

      But how much was Eddie’s selections? How much was the Boks’ smacking his plan off the park (the ABs have a great record, and a win and a draw this year using that plan)? How much was the English players running out of steam and not getting it up to deliver on the plan?

      EDIT: None of that should be take away from SA of course. Massive congratulations to them for going out, sticking to their plan and sticking it to the Sais.

  • Missing Link

    Also, a big congratulations to the All Blacks for naming their new coach….. All the best, from Australia!
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/302be87841e25d7146a98dca2b3f9abba0ed94ba444bb0c8f8780b2fd1b40a8c.jpg

    • Jcr

      Did you mean to say coach driver ?

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Bahahahwahahaha

  • Mike D

    Is that the first time a team has lost a pool game and won the final? If so, another piece of history SA have just made and to me that shows grit and resilience.

  • Mike D

    And class comments from their captain: “We won because we worked together as a team”. Simple stuff, hard to execute.
    But, sigh, now I have to wait four more years to see it all again. Roll on 2023.

    • Mica

      Kolisi has been awesome since taking over the captaincy. Not the first time he has been inspirational and calm in his leadership. Such a fantastic, honest, humble and heartfelt speech too. Best Saffa captain since Pinaar (though JDV was pretty good too)

  • AllyOz

    Eddie Jones is, not unsurprisingly, copping it in the English press – largest losing margin in a World Cup final etc, out coached and out strategized etc. I wrote last week that we should wait until after the final before rushing to speak to him and was, perhaps correctly, criticised for not recognising his past record – three finals appearances and the Japan miracle amongst them. I do understand that criticism and think its fair BUT I just don’t feel Eddie is the right choice for us right now. In any case, he is the English coach for another 2 years.

    I am not sure if David Rennie is the best option either, and I would prefer an Australian coach with a proven record but I don’t know that there is one who is currently coaching at the level that would be consistent with what’s required to coach the Wallabies. I hope we don’t rush this decision as I think there is time given where we are in the cycle and I think there is some work that can be done with the support structure etc that ensures we have the right set up when the coach actually needs to start in May next year.

    Some people (and Alan Jones is one who often claims it) that we have a lot of Australian coaches who could coach the Wallabies that are coaching professionally overseas. But I had a quick look through and I couldn’t actually find that many. John Mulvihill, Billy Millard and Steve Larkham were the only names I recognised in head coaching roles. there are some other blokes like Steve Meehan – coached Bath & Stade and was an assistant at the Force and Reds.

    I would like to see us adopt the sort of panel style system that the Kiwi’s had with Scott Wisemantel, Laurie Fischer on that panel – not sure who we get for defence etc?

    • Happyman

      Everyone is forgetting the other Australian Coach at he RWC this year Toutai Kefu

      Would never happen but he did fairly well with a limited team.

      • AllyOz

        I did forget him sorry.

    • Richard Patterson

      Do people have an opinion on David Nacifora?

      • Human

        He is good but seems to set standards that some players do not like.
        I noted Ben PERKINS in the coaching box with Jamie Joseph…10-whisperer; kicking coach and ‘out-of-left-field’ strategist if ever there was one.

      • AllyOz

        There’s another I forgot – though I guess he is in the Irish set up rather than a head coach at club or international level.

        I don’t know honestly.

        Certainly he has achieved success at Super level with ACT and then I think less successful at the Blues. You read in the papers that he was a victim of player power at the Brumbies and that they coached themselves to the title but I never really know what to believe with that stuff. I think he still had a lot to do with their success, if not in that year then in making the finals in the previous two years.

        He seems to, like Scott Johnson, taken more coaching support and director of rugby type roles of late rather than hands on coaching. I think he should be a name that is discussed.

        Maybe there are a few more out there than I thought, just not that many who are in head coaching roles.

        I personally wouldn’t mind if we saw McKenzie’s name in discussions but he hasn’t coached in 5 years and looks happy with life away from rugby coaching so … just would like him to have another chance as I think we were heading in a reasonable direction with him there, if not achieving quite the winning percentage we needed to.

  • onlinesideline

    there once was a coach called Jones
    who heard nothing but local groans
    he told them to shove it
    went north where they love it
    and was 1 win away from his own throne

    But along came the Bokke
    Man mountain they were a chokka
    From rhino to cheater take your pick

    Coach Jones said “we’ll be right”
    just keep it nice and tight,
    and do what we’ve planned for 4 years”

    But at whistle time things changed
    The Bokke becomes deranged
    and no longer did the chariot swing so low

    With the steely Kolisi
    Things weren’t so easy
    noticed the Quin, the Tiger and the Wasp

    Fast Eddie looked bereft
    As Jerome played deaf
    to their front row claims of foul play

    For when the Bokke donnes the green
    From the Cape to Orange Free
    Their is no-one who can tame them on their day

  • Kiwi rugby lover

    Thanks Nathan, what a great weekend of rugby and such a good final. Well done to SA clearly deserved the win and such a great speech from Kolesi. The way forward both here and in NZ should make for interesting times in the next few months. Looking forward to it all coming out.
    Good luck to Maddocks I hope he goes well.

  • Hoss

    Good morning all,

    Well done Dutch Dirt Farmers – deserved winners and congrat’s to all Saffa fans and peoples. Much deserved and i hope it brings joy and happiness to all.

    I believe this may the last week of GAGR this week so its to me for me to piss or get off the pot.

    Its been a wild ride – see you all back here next year

    From my family to yours have a safe and merry Christmas and a Wonderful New Year.

    To the things that may have divided us this year it’s our joint passion for the game that makes us one – besides, i accept your apologies. I am nothing if not benevolent.

    Hoss – out.

    T’was the night before Xmas
    And all through the house
    Not a creature was stirring,
    as a former coach was aroused.

    His coaching was over,
    The season was done
    Four years of madness
    And as for trophies, there were none.

    ‘Fucking Raelene’ he muttered out loud
    ‘She cost me the cup – she’s taken my crown
    ‘My careers in tatters – what ever will I do
    ‘Montpellier – might as well be Tim-buc-fucking -too!’

    ‘Appoint a panel of to oversee me
    What the fuck do they know
    I’am the Wallabies god –
    it was my fucking show !!’

    ‘Spanners at 10,
    Methuselah to start
    And I should have had Hannigan –
    as that Arnold’s a tart

    My loosies combo was a dead-set ripper
    With Brian & Lee Magors – who’s a hell of a skipper
    Dynamic and tough and hard on the ball
    Who cares if they were ineffective as ref’s made rucks and mauls a free-for-all

    My Bovine Sprinkler should have been reserve half,
    Fucking Nic White should have stayed in France.
    Sure he can pass, run catch and kick
    But I always have a soft spot for my old Tah’s 9 – Nick.

    Gilbert at 15, running side to side
    Sure he missed tackles, but we can find him places to hide
    We’ll simply swap 9 to 14, 15 to 3, 11 to 13 and 14 – let’s see
    Sure we might leak a few points playing this way
    But fuck it – the crowds will be happy, it’s the ‘Australian Way’

    ‘Keep ball in hand and make ‘em proud
    As we tour the world and get regularly towelled
    England by 50, Scotland a record loss.
    Lose to Wales for the first time since Hayley’s Comet crossed’

    ‘And as for that Jewish guy who shot off his mouth
    Does it really matter who the fuck’s headed south ?
    Sure he couldn’t tackle, pass or generally do much
    But put him under a highball and it was a clutch’

    The coach sat prone,
    Collapsed in his chair
    A bottle of whisky
    The scent of despair

    Five years of madness, panic and gamble had amounted to this.
    Alone with his thoughts, a belly full of piss.
    A time for reflection to step back from the abyss.

    As sleep beckoned and reality firmed
    A nagging voice visited and made the coach squirm.
    Had he done the best he could were there mistakes others had seen ??
    ‘Nah, fuck em all – Fucking Raelene !!’

    T’was the night before Christmas
    And all through the house,
    not a creature was stirring,
    not even a mouse.

    Coach sat there firm in his belief
    Alcohol soaking into his spleen
    ‘I’am the best coach there’ve ever had
    Now what I mean’

    From the Hoss’s of the Ponderosa
    We bid you good bye.
    A Merry Xmas to all
    And to all – a good night.

    See you back here in 2020.

    • onlinesideline

      you’re a legend mate – thanks for the laughs

    • laurence king

      You’re a poet mate, cheers

    • Happyman

      Well done Hoss

      All the best o you and yours.

      I propose the GAGR people but put each day’s page up with just the date on it and let everyone go in the comments section. Could make a fine discussion piece.

    • Damo

      Hoss, thanks for the thoughtful rhyme. Quality, as always. Somehow I can’t look at the number 2020 without feeling a bit old. Reminds me of the depressing classic “In the Year 2525″. Anyway with all of the player and coaching personnel changes coming in the new year and the next RWC 4 years distant, we will no doubt have much new to get angry about, rejoice in, debate and discuss. Let’s do it. Best of festives to you and yours.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Awesome Hoss. Have a great Christmas and New Year buddy. Catch you in 2020

    • Richard Patterson

      2019 MVP of the comments section Hoss. Always well thought-out views and opinions, and a humor that is unmatched. Well played mate and thank you for the efforts.

      The RWC has shown us we got work to do Down Under here. The Saffas and Poms have taken the podium off us and we need to win it back. We need to wise up down here. We need to work together to re-claim the top ground. We will never compete with the money and the playing numbers others have. But we will school them because we are smart, we are skilled and we are quick learners. 2020 cannot come quick enough. Enjoy the summer.

    • Brisneyland Local

      To a man whose humour is as big as he is himself.
      Happy christmas to you and yours and look forward to seeing you in the new year.

  • Happyman

    Fellow Drunks and Fornicators

    Fairly good game on the weekend. Everyone is an expert on Mondays after a weekend but I did point out that with the Jarome as ref I felt it was advantage SA as the rucks would be slower. As a french Ref he also made an early decision of who was the better scrum and rode it home.

    We’ll played South Africa on a deserved win Souther Hemisphere 7 from 8.

    • From NooZealand

      or 8 from 9, I think.

  • Neil Pocock

    I think ALOT of people have taken Kolisis comments “since I’ve been alive I’ve never seen SA like this” the wrong way!
    I’m possative he’s referring to how fast the country is going down hill!
    In 1995 SA as a country deserved the WC win! The country was heading in the right direction fast! Now I fear nothing will come good of a WC win in SA in 2019 as it just fuels the power that be to keep pole axing the country! I mean when you have the American president passing emergency genocide laws because of the state in SA it says ALOT!
    But to the players, the fans and the everyday man….. Well done SA! You and Eng were my finals pick with a SA victory ✌

    • Geoffro

      Trump and his moronic tweeting.Why bring that up.Congrats to the Bokke , sport is unifying and helps the common man forget some of his woes

      • Neil Pocock

        Whats Trumps tweets got to do with it? I’m guessing you don’t realize how bad it is in SA atm! It’s REALLY REALLY bad! And on your unification point….. yes sport does that. But then Monday comes and the politicians resume their work stripping “white South Africans” of land and human rights!
        Mate half of SA is starving because the govco has forcibly taken farms of any White owners and given it to local blacks….. who then promptly have no idea how to produce food!
        The Australian govco is literally trying to relocate SA farmers by the hundreds before they get murdered like many others….. It’s very bad!

        • Geoffro

          My wife is from PE.The plight of S Africa is well realized around here. The annual murder rate is pushing 20000 per year and that is NOT because of a some white farmers being murdered and pushed off their lands.They do have my sympathy but not as much as a young child raped and killed in an impoverished township.This is a rugby forum , lets leave it there and celebrate one rugby mans heartfelt statements rather than try to dismiss them as irrelevant in context

        • Neil Pocock

          Mate I don’t think many people anywhere understand how bad it is over there….. including yourself by the sounds of it! What I stayed earlier wasn’t my opinion……it is FACTS! Maybe research some independent news articles! And I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with enlightening more about the extreme hardships and tribulations South Africans are facing! My original comment was not intended to be political….. it related directly to a dieing nation winning a WC as opposed to the state of great forward steps it was making last time SA won the WC!

  • Andy

    Good game from the Boks. Must say I really like Pollard as a 10. He plays the bokke style to a tee with his fantastic kicking game and solid as F defence. But what i really like is he has another level where he can distribute and run the ball. His real talent is being able to decide when to shift it and/or run it which is against his teams natural game. It just keeps the opposition guessing that little bit and he often makes the right decision and rarely looks flustered. Really wish we had a 10 of his ability.

Rugby
@NathW1997

Loved rugby since the day I could remember, got the nickname Footy to show that, I watch Matt Dunning's dropkick every night before going to bed

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