Comments on: Short Arm. Short Shrift. Good Riddance. http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/short-arm-short-shrift-good-riddance/ THE Aussie Rugby Blog and Forum for Wallabies fans to wang on about anything to do with Australian rugby Thu, 29 Jul 2010 22:44:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Lance Free http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/short-arm-short-shrift-good-riddance/comment-page-1/#comment-19172 Lance Free Fri, 08 Jan 2010 05:48:05 +0000 http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/?p=7814#comment-19172 It was an unwritten interpretation. You had to clear the ball quickly otherwise it was deemed unplayable and you'd lose it via a free kick to the defending side. Indicatively you had about five seconds to do this......<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-19172">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> It was an unwritten interpretation. You had to clear the ball quickly otherwise it was deemed unplayable and you’d lose it via a free kick to the defending side. Indicatively you had about five seconds to do this……

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]]> By: Dapper http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/short-arm-short-shrift-good-riddance/comment-page-1/#comment-19170 Dapper Fri, 08 Jan 2010 05:12:11 +0000 http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/?p=7814#comment-19170 A good post as it brings up some good points. Bob D. comments that the laws say what players cannot do. So in search of what players can do Robson points to the mantra of Position, Possession and Pace (3 P's). I'm particularly interested in 'Possesion'. Aside from being raised on it as a school boy and not really knowing its significance because it seems obvious that to win you need the ball in hand. It seems in todays game 'possession' is expressed through excessive (10+) phases and recycling which is often predictable to opposing teams and becomming easy to defend against. Lance, was it actually written that the attacking side was to be penalised if the ball did not emerge in approx 5 seconds? Or was this an unwritten interpretation? In the inevitable rush to secure possession no side is willing to release the ball (or stop competing for it) even when both players are off feet. In the scenario you mentioned I understood that the defending side was being penalised for not allowing quicker release and, because it occured so often, the short arm prevented excessive kicks to the uprights and hence final score lines with no trys apeice.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-19170">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> A good post as it brings up some good points. Bob D. comments that the laws say what players cannot do. So in search of what players can do Robson points to the mantra of Position, Possession and Pace (3 P’s). I’m particularly interested in ‘Possesion’. Aside from being raised on it as a school boy and not really knowing its significance because it seems obvious that to win you need the ball in hand.

It seems in todays game ‘possession’ is expressed through excessive (10+) phases and recycling which is often predictable to opposing teams and becomming easy to defend against.

Lance, was it actually written that the attacking side was to be penalised if the ball did not emerge in approx 5 seconds? Or was this an unwritten interpretation? In the inevitable rush to secure possession no side is willing to release the ball (or stop competing for it) even when both players are off feet. In the scenario you mentioned I understood that the defending side was being penalised for not allowing quicker release and, because it occured so often, the short arm prevented excessive kicks to the uprights and hence final score lines with no trys apeice.

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]]> By: unsub god http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/short-arm-short-shrift-good-riddance/comment-page-1/#comment-18920 unsub god Sat, 02 Jan 2010 09:40:52 +0000 http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/?p=7814#comment-18920 On that note I doubt if many of the current Blacks would be able to mix it with that lot either.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-18920">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> On that note I doubt if many of the current Blacks would be able to mix it with that lot either.

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]]> By: Lance Free http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/short-arm-short-shrift-good-riddance/comment-page-1/#comment-18919 Lance Free Sat, 02 Jan 2010 08:08:31 +0000 http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/?p=7814#comment-18919 Robbo - I'm not sure there are too many of today's Wallabies that could mix it with Brian Lochore, Colin Meads, Waka Nathan, Kel Tremain, Ken Gray, Chris Laidlaw, Grahame Thorne, Earl Kirton, Ian MaCrae, Bill Davis, Fergie McCormick, Bill Birtwistle, Ian Kirkpatrick, Bruce McLeod etc. They had a world beating team with the ability to implement that policy. The philosophy is sound but you need the cattle to get it done.....<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-18919">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> Robbo – I’m not sure there are too many of today’s Wallabies that could mix it with Brian Lochore, Colin Meads, Waka Nathan, Kel Tremain, Ken Gray, Chris Laidlaw, Grahame Thorne, Earl Kirton, Ian MaCrae, Bill Davis, Fergie McCormick, Bill Birtwistle, Ian Kirkpatrick, Bruce McLeod etc.

They had a world beating team with the ability to implement that policy. The philosophy is sound but you need the cattle to get it done…..

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]]> By: Gumby http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/short-arm-short-shrift-good-riddance/comment-page-1/#comment-18900 Gumby Fri, 01 Jan 2010 07:33:46 +0000 http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/?p=7814#comment-18900 Love your thinking Robson. Goes into the book of wisdom.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-18900">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> Love your thinking Robson. Goes into the book of wisdom.

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]]> By: Robson http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/short-arm-short-shrift-good-riddance/comment-page-1/#comment-18897 Robson Fri, 01 Jan 2010 04:13:36 +0000 http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/?p=7814#comment-18897 If you talk to Fred Allen (one of the most successful ABs and AB coaches of all time) he will tell you that perfection of the <b>3 Ps</b> - <b>POSITION</b>, <b>POSSESSION</b> and <b>PACE</b> will beat any team under any set of laws. You disregard these principles as being old fashioned at your peril, but when you think about it, it's what makes the Crusaders a huge challenge for any other S14 team, because they are masters of the 3 Ps. Robbie Deans hasn't quite got there with the Wallabies yet, but there are positive signs that we are starting to understand the mixied dynamics on defence and attack of POSITION, the absolute imperative of retaining POSSESSION of our own ball and contesting for possession on the opposition ball and moving it around at PACE.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-18897">1</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> If you talk to Fred Allen (one of the most successful ABs and AB coaches of all time) he will tell you that perfection of the 3 Ps – POSITION, POSSESSION and PACE will beat any team under any set of laws.

You disregard these principles as being old fashioned at your peril, but when you think about it, it’s what makes the Crusaders a huge challenge for any other S14 team, because they are masters of the 3 Ps.

Robbie Deans hasn’t quite got there with the Wallabies yet, but there are positive signs that we are starting to understand the mixied dynamics on defence and attack of POSITION, the absolute imperative of retaining POSSESSION of our own ball and contesting for possession on the opposition ball and moving it around at PACE.

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]]> By: Robson http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/short-arm-short-shrift-good-riddance/comment-page-1/#comment-18896 Robson Fri, 01 Jan 2010 04:00:26 +0000 http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/?p=7814#comment-18896 But you have to do something with the <i>balls</i> that you get and on an amazing number of times during the 09 season, the WBs didn't have the <i>ability</i> to do anything with them, either their own balls or anyone elses. Hopefully the Wales test was the swan song of that crap and corruption.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-18896">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> But you have to do something with the balls that you get and on an amazing number of times during the 09 season, the WBs didn’t have the ability to do anything with them, either their own balls or anyone elses.

Hopefully the Wales test was the swan song of that crap and corruption.

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]]> By: Stomper http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/short-arm-short-shrift-good-riddance/comment-page-1/#comment-18824 Stomper Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:34:43 +0000 http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/?p=7814#comment-18824 I must disagree in part. IMO scrum penalties should result in a short arm free kick rather than full penalties. In many cases scrum infringements are so difficult to determine many referees just get it wrong. I'd also restrict the ability to kixk penalties from outside the first 40 metres.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-18824">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> I must disagree in part.

IMO scrum penalties should result in a short arm free kick rather than full penalties.

In many cases scrum infringements are so difficult to determine many referees just get it wrong.

I’d also restrict the ability to kixk penalties from outside the first 40 metres.

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]]> By: Gumby http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/short-arm-short-shrift-good-riddance/comment-page-1/#comment-18790 Gumby Mon, 28 Dec 2009 00:06:16 +0000 http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/?p=7814#comment-18790 Bob. Do you interpret this stat for the Waratahs as happening because they lacked the ability or intelligence to play to the ELV's or is it the way they have been coached or is there some other reason for this happening? Taking this point a bit further it seemed that few teams knew how to play with ambition and vision against the Springboks simplistic percentage Rugby style this year (leaving aside their poor Northern Tour where they were probably their own worst enemy). Do you think that the Wallabies V's Wales game and the AB's V's France game might have been the turning point in heading us back to a more expansive ball in hand style of play allied with perhaps sharper tactical kicking?<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-18790">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> Bob.

Do you interpret this stat for the Waratahs as happening because they lacked the ability or intelligence to play to the ELV’s or is it the way they have been coached or is there some other reason for this happening?

Taking this point a bit further it seemed that few teams knew how to play with ambition and vision against the Springboks simplistic percentage Rugby style this year (leaving aside their poor Northern Tour where they were probably their own worst enemy). Do you think that the Wallabies V’s Wales game and the AB’s V’s France game might have been the turning point in heading us back to a more expansive ball in hand style of play allied with perhaps sharper tactical kicking?

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]]> By: Timmy http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/short-arm-short-shrift-good-riddance/comment-page-1/#comment-18788 Timmy Sun, 27 Dec 2009 23:47:37 +0000 http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/?p=7814#comment-18788 Completely agree!<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-18788">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> Completely agree!

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