THINK TANK: A new, workable 3rd Tier

Skip August 9, 2012 35

No GravatarFor some time this website has been campaigning for a 3rd tier and there has been much discussion about how it would help develop players.  It’s well known that the ARU has tried this before, with the ill fated Australian Rugby Championship (ARC) which folded after one year and also the Australian Rugby Shield.  I’m going to put my cock on the block and try to come up with a way it might work if done differently, plus some idea of how much it would cost.

Where the ARC went wrong.

Sounds good – where?

To not learn from history is to repeat it, so we need to understand where we went wrong before and try something else.  The ARC folded for a number of reasons.  The teams in it were franchises which were unable to make a connection with fans in the areas they represented and the clubs weren’t all too pleased about having their best players taken.  The ARU will tell you how hard it is to start a super franchise from scratch, so why they went for several in a third tier at once is a good question. The result were average crowds of about 2800 for the ARC and thus lower than needed ticket receipts.

There was also poor strategic execution.  It was launched at the same time, more or less, as the RWC which was a shit idea for 2 reasons.  One, the fans are all thinking about the big one in France and therefore not ready for a domestic competition as there was no momentum.  Two, the ARU used to take a huge financial hit every 4 years, so it was no position to find 8 million in 2008 to keep the ARC alive when not even 3000 were turning up to see the games.  All very predictable, you would think.

Big John was right to kill the ARC, from a strictly financial view but now the ARU is going to get between 12 and 17 million from the IRB to cover the losses it was taking as a result of the RWC.  To give credit where it’s due, John has put the ARU on a good financial footing.  It’s now time to make investments to find players to fill the 2 super franchises the ARU has over the recent years to put us on a better playing footing.

The ARU has acknowledged that it needs to time to get enough players to make all 5 super sides competitive, so a third tier, by definition is a must.  So we have the motivation and the means.

Some holes may be found in my numbers as I don’t have insider knowledge but the fact is the New Zealanders allocate 490 dollars of their revenue per player and we manage 279.  They are world champions and we just got beaten by Scotland. Again.

So how could it be done?

Firstly it needs a firm, long term commitment from the ARU.  A third tier needs to be seen as a strategic decision to grow players, not make cash profits.  Strategic decisions take time to implement and they cost money but if they are left too late, the cost is often more.

It means it has to be accepted that the ARU is going to have to put money into a third tier for some time to fund it.  But, to repeat, a big cash injection has been received so let’s see it used.

Building on What We Have.

A third tier also needs to be build on what we have.  The franchises might make things nice and simple for the ARU to control but they don’t have the history of a Randwick or a Brothers.  The national competition must build on that so it’s the clubs who take part, not faceless franchises controlled by the ARU’s own faceless men.  The administrators therefore need to grow up, remember who they work for (us who buy tickets) and start cooperating.

Finally, the ARU can’t think too big to start with.  The majority of the players are not likely to be paid full-time at first. It’s within living memory that a good percentage of top mungo players were only semi-professional. A 10 team competition with 250 to 300 pro players is not gonna fly at the moment.

My league would work like soccer’s champion’s league and also the Heineken Cup.  If your team finishes in the top 3, you get in to the big time.  To avoid the punter’s indifference to the franchises, the top 3 sides from the Shute Shield and the Brisbane comp go through and 2 from Canberra.  Due to the smaller markets, Melbourne and Perth get to field a side with their super players as a matter of course.  I said it’s an investment and that’s the price – it’s tougher for Sydney and Brisbane sides but they have a bigger fan base.

The annual rugby season in Australia would look something like the chart below.

The national comp, (shown in green) runs at the same time as the ITM and Currie cups do and the aim is a progression through the season.  It also provides a useful step down for injured / out of form super & test players.  The June and July end of the city competitions are also more serious as the top sides have something to aim for – qualification for the national champs later in the year.  In my view, this scores big time over the way the ARC was built.

Keeping it affordable.

In the national competition, sides play each other once a season.  I’m trying to keep things cheap and the travel is a factor. The top 4 on the log at the end of the round robin phase play semis and then a final to be called National Champs.  So each side plays 8 national level games and perhaps 2 more finals.  Throw in a bye and that makes 11 weeks of footy from August to October. That takes us up to the winter wallaby tour.

How to pay for it?  Well, that’s the big issue.  I’ve kept this proposal to one where teams play each other only once and, like super rugby now, one where not all sides play each other in a given season, for cost reasons.

Based on some figures available from the days of the ARC, the expenses of the competition could breakdown something like the pie chart to the right.

I’ve given the ARU an extra 500,000 to work out a deal to extend the TV coverage they have with the ABC.  I’ll admit I’m not familiar with the inner workings of broadcasting deals but for that much I reckon you could watch a match of the day in Sydney and also Brisbane plus get a review show on the weekend.

Not all the players are going to be full time pros, just as not every player in the ITM cup is, so players get 500 a game, and like the old ARC, I assume there are 250 of them.  To keep things cheaper still, 171 super players who are already being paid don’t figure into this and I have allowed for 35 Wallabies not to be there.  This means we need 134 third tier semi-pro players (but who are not now contracted to a super side) who will get 500 a game.  A total of 1.2 million, or thereabouts as I threw in a couple of hundred grand for coaches and physios as well.

I did a lot of checking of Jet Star’s and Virgin Blue’s websites for flights and if they are booked far enough in advance, flights and coaches between grounds can be done for a bit less than 180,000 a season.

The remaining expenses (match day fees, advertising and player insurance) total 350,000.  I estimated these by reading annual reports where I could get them and checking how much player insurance is.

Some Money Comes in.

I assumed average crowds of 1500.  The ARC managed about 2800, so I am being pretty cautious here and it gives ticket sales of 600,000. at 10 dollars a ticket for 40 games.  I believe the ARU should be family friendly  and let kids under 15 in free.  I allowed for a total of 50,000 in beer and sanger sales and another 30,000 in merchandise.  Both pretty conservative figures in my view.  The pie chart shows my estimates.  The biggest slice is the money we need to prise from the misers at the ARU.

The important figure that will cause debate is 1.4 million ARU top up.  To my calculations, on a modest budget, with semi pro players, weak crowds, poor sponsorship and so on, the ARU would need to chip in that much to make up the difference between income and expenses of the new national championship.  Given the ARC lost 4 million in its first year and was expected to double that in its second year, this is pretty reasonable.

Got any better ideas? Let’s hear them.  Spot any errors, great. Just don’t tell me we can keep going like this forever.

Discussion

  • Lindommer

    Skip, well though out proposal, let’s hope it goes somewhere.

    Two points:
    1. Restricting participation to existing clubs in Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra isn’t a recipe for growing the game. It’s bad enough in Sydney at the moment where the successful clubs, say, Randwick, Uni, Eastwood and Manly, pillage players from distant areas, especially western Sydney. Brisbane and Canberra I don’t know but I suspect Vikings’ recent success isn’t built solely on players from southern Canberra. It’s vital this new third tier be instrumental in growing the game.

    2. There’s no way grounds will give up beer and sanger sales. You’d better take that out of your budget.

    • TimB

      I think the point is to put something in place that builds momentum in the strong areas before spreading it to other areas with good opportunity for growth. A bit like making sure you’re going forward before spreading it wide.

  • croweater

    If we are to have a National Competition it must be truly NATIONAL, not just an East Coast championship! Much as I hate to admit it we need to learn from the AFL. The success of non Victorian clubs has boosted their game, especially with premierships to Brisbane and Sydney. We need to be in a position of offering kids an alternative football code to AFL or Soccer, with the added bonus of possible S15 and maybe even Wallaby games as they progress. Nobody would expect a South Australian or West Australian team to be competative straight away but using the AFL model could be helpful. It would also attract more people to the game. Also the games would need to be on FTA TV with a clause that makes sure the broadcaster telecasts games live where possible and at reasonable times when not. The current situation where Channel 9 may or may not broadcast games live is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!

    • abmerlin

      There is no way a South Aussie team would EVER become competitive! They would have to import at least 50% of a squad from inter state.

    • http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com Matt Rowley

      Surely if we at least had a comp going we could add teams in from other areas over time?

  • Scott Allen

    Skip, I like it.

    I also take Lindommer’s point on food and drink sales and the same would apply to club merchandise. But that’s only $80,000 from your budget.

    I think you could add back in $10,000 from each club who plays in the competition = $100,000 back in the mix and clubs could raise that from their own sponsors who would get additional exposure.

  • baldwid

    Skip – love the idea of a 3rd tier but I think we need to start a bit smaller or perhaps adjust our thinking as to the model and maybe adopt the super rugby, american style conference model.

    I really agree that we need to utilize the current Rugby championships that we already have and make sure they stay alive – Shute Shield / Hospital Cup etc. I think to start with we keep each state’s premier competition as it is. Shute Shield remains as does Premier Rugby. Difference being these are not competitions in isolation. They are still contested in the manner in which they are now – keeping the older associates happy and maintaining the integrity and history of the Competitions. What would change is that they are “conferences” for want of a better term in a larger competition.

    For mine the essential difference is that the shute shield / hospital cup is awarded to the first past the post team in each “conference” much like the English premier league – that way it still rewards the best team. Once that season is over then the top 3 (however many from each comp) then move onto a finals series which is where the comp gets truly national even though it always is, just under a conference model. Could even have a wildcard spot so that stronger teams from NSW/QLD dont miss out to weaker sides from wherever – however that does not promote growth so maybe not – up for debate.

    The issue will be getting the tweeds to accept that its no longer “Sydney” or “Brisbane” club rugby anymore, rather its NSW/QLD as it allows for integration of new teams from Newcastle or Cairns etc.

    I personally am a die hard premier rugby fan and don’t want huge changes but for the greater good of Rugby in Australia I would definitely accept such change. In essence the only real change would be the way each “conference”/competition winner is determined – moving from a finals series to a first past the post style. That is a fair and minimal change i think and a small compromise – much better than losing the history and identity of all the clubs as happened with the ARC. You can still support the club your grandpa played for and you did as a child and crucially the history and rich fabric gained over generations is maintained.

    Doing this also cuts costs as teams don’t travel through the season, only during finals and as such flights, accommodation etc are only required during finals.

    I also think our thinking of what each conference is needs to change slightly. Although each competition is special and playing A grade/Prems is special and still revered, it must be understood that it is also a development competition for higher honours. That takes nothing away from it as good players will still be playing good rugby, it just needs to be understood that its for the development of Australian Rugby and as such needs to be seen in the same light as Leagues Toyota Comp – development for the next level. I stress that does not mean its a youth competition – just a development comp and as such must not be focussed on the bottom line.

    About 3 months ago I mocked up some figures for a comp that would run in brisbane with the intention of establishing a semi professional environment aimed solely at getting gifted athletes to choose Rugby over League. THE MOST CRUCIAL ISSUE IN ALL OF THIS IS THAT THEIR IS NO FINANCIAL PATHWAY FOR YOUNG PLAYERS TO EXPLORE IN RUGBY. In League a gifted player can hit Toyota Cup and by that time any intention to return to Rugby will be gone when they can earn some cash playing footy.

    My system is not perfect and it only runs whilst the season is on but thats how it needs to start in my opinion – until the comp is established and corporates want to get involved.

    My Comp would look a little like this:

    Grades and Colts
    $500 a week is $26,000 a year

    No professionally contract player can receive a “Full Pathway Contract” (FPC)
    This includes Academy Contracted players and professional players (European, Japan, Super Rugby, ITM etc)

    Their is a maximum of 5 FPC’s per club.

    An additional 3 “Interim Pathway Contracts” of $250 (IPC) can be obtained in the event of injury, player leaving etc.

    When the (FPC) player returns from injury the Player on the (IPC) has their contract terminated and payments stopped.

    - $2,500 per club, per week.
    An additional $750 may be required and as such total exposure is $3,250 per week, per club.
    = $58,500 per club, per annum.
    18 Week Season plus an additional 1 week for 4 clubs and a further 1 weeks for 2 clubs.

    10 clubs @ 58,500 per annum
    = $585,000 in player wages

    Including Finals Series
    Total Exposure = $604,500

    This essentially means that the QLD conference would have to find 600k between all the clubs – I honestly think they could do so now through their current sponsors, not to mention having a new competition sponsor!! The QRU could tip in also!

    I know its not perfect or ideal but its never meant to be to start with. Start small and grow over time. The real upside is that it gives young aspiring rugby players leaving school an option other than league to play football and get paid. They can still study or complete a trade a couple of days a week but have the freedom given their finances as a result of the FPC’s to train (gym, skills etc) semi professionally – so maybe three days a week. Once the season is over and the FPC ceases they could return to their trade or studies and find other employment.

    I understand commercial reality but the ARU should look at it with the intention of making a profit removed, at least for the foreseeable future. As long as it breaks even or makes negligible losses then its worth its weight in gold – just look at the depth in NZ!! Imagine the possibility of having some of the young talented Inglis, Hayne, Idris’s of this world choosing to play rugby rather than league because they could get paid to do so!!!

    Just my thoughts

  • Timbo

    I don’t see how having a club based team will improve the crowd sizes. Sure there is the existing supporter base there, but Brothers (for example) won’t pull in people from Uni/Sunnybank/Wests etc to go and watch/support them.

    Now the clubs may not like losing their players to these franchises, but I can almost guarantee the ‘weaker’ clubs will lose players to the stronger clubs who play in the ARC format. – particularly the 18/19/20 year olds looking for exposure.

  • gel

    I like it.

    http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/s15-australia-dont-have-depth.10245/page-9#post-358081

    When I posted essentially the same thing last year (obviously with nowhere near the level of hard work you have put in regards to the level of detail you have put forward), it seemed to pretty much fall on deaf ears with only one person in the thread commenting – I got disheartened – I hope you get the responses you clearly deserve putting in so much hard work.

    The one point I really like (as I said earlier) is to start small from a strong base BEFORE expanding into the other areas. This is key to not making huge early losses.

    Minimise your losses in the short term for greater gain in the long term.

    • gel

      note: *That should be a “while ago” – not a “year ago”*

  • gel

    Oh, and I don’t know the figures for sponsorship – but if it is the “Commonwealth Bank End of Season Cup”, or “Hyundai Champions League” or whatever – surely those companies would be putting in serious dollars for naming rights. That would probably be organised by the ARU, but surely that would be something significant.

  • suckerforred

    I like the concept. Yes I can see the arguements that are being put across regarding strong clubs getting stronger etc, but we have to start somewhere.

    Another option might be a return to a representative type comp – i.e. Qld Country, Qld City, NSW Country, NSW City, ACT, Vic, SA, WA side for a start. That way the players will be taken from a variety of clubs so the relative strength of particular clubs would be mitigated (to an extent). As the comp grows in strength then it would be able to add other teams from other districts – Vic Country/City, NT etc. Yes some of these side might get flogged for the first few years but as players realise that they have a path way that does not involve having to move to cities to get a go the sides will gain in strength. That is my theory anyway.

    And yes gel I am with you re the sponsorship and allowing naming rights. But no matter what happens we will need the support of the ARU as well as the various state and franchise administrators, because lets face it, their players will be involved.

    • suckerforred

      And I forgot Tassie. Not deliberately.

  • Jimbo81

    Fantastic idea! Desperately overdue – best three club sides in the country go in to round robin at the end of the season, funded by the ARU. GOLD! This will make grass-roots rugby in Australia thrive!

  • Bone

    Great idea – well overdue.
    As you said, the great weakness with the ARC were the meaningless franchises.
    My feeling is that we go for “amalgamations” of clubs in Sydney/Brissy/Canberra and have stand alone teams for Melbourne and Perth.
    I.e. in Canberra – have a North Canberra team made up of players who play in the local comp for Owls/Wests/Gunghalin and a South Canberra team made up of players from teams south of the lake and replicate the idea, geographically, for Sydney and Brissy (but have three teams for these comps). This would ensure fans are attracted to the amalgamated team for which their club is a part of and will keep the talent spread through out the clubs. Melbourne and Perth would have one team made up of players from their local comp.

  • Morsie

    There’s a very simple and very effective solution to the 3rd tier issue.

    Currently the bulk of domestic Super 15 games are ‘local derbys and we need to capitalise on this’.

    The super 15 teams all have a larger player roster (is it 30?) than we usually get to see during the course of a season (look at the Timani brothers stagnating away in Canberra). and they also run an academy. Rosters should be increased to 50 players on several different levels of contract.

    As a curtain raiser to all of the local derby super 15 games thats between teams from the franchises that’s made up of players from this extended roster and these players should mostly come from local clubs (ie Perth, Melbourne etc).

    The super 15 tournament becomes an internal domestic competition with points per game accrued by BOTH teams on the same basis as the Super 15 system so depth to win this internal tournament becomes vital to each franchise and they get to blood players on a bigger stage and they get to bring back injured players and we get to see all sorts of fringe Super 15 players.

    By working with the existing system an awful lot of start up issues are avoided. Its a win for everyone.

  • nomis

    It’s a good start. But while we need to start small, what happens to non-test super players who don’t play for one of those clubs, or Rebels or Force. We need to include them to develop players.

    I think we need to take another look at Bruce Ross’ recent suggestion and the comments that follow:

    http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/learning-from-the-enemy-–-an-affordable-third-tier-competition.11359/

  • #1 Tah

    the Shute shield is still going, all the way through to September. Where would we fit an ARC around that?

    • Pie Thrower

      This is exactly the sort of thinking that has held back a viable ’3rd tier’ for so long. The rest of the country has to fit around the Sydney comp. Why shouldn’t the Sydney comp fit around what is best for the rest of the country?? Yes history is important and it is a good feeder system, but it has proven over time that it isn’t a viable 3rd tier. (a fact that many Sydney-centric rugby types can’t see)

  • Skip

    i appreciate all the feedback. i felt i was sticking my neck out somewhat but i wanted to start a conversation and I really appreciate Gagger’s support in publishing it.

    I went with the clubs idea aware that this would advantage the clubs that keep winning and draw talent from those that don’t. It can be managed with a salary cap and other means but I think the idea of using the clubs makes it easier to sell. the franchise based national comp didn’t work.

    I also believe it has to be national, include the areas with a super side and then think about heading into new areas.

    I think the clubs will welcome the idea more as they will be aiming for increased crowd sizes for the national competition games.

    I modelled it that way so that part time players have a pathway and an opportunity to compete against players with super and test experience.

    Finally, it is an investment to get the depth. As said already, the level of sporting excellence in Australia is phenomenal. Rugby needs to appeal to the young players we loose to the other codes right now. I don’t claim that this is a water tight idea but the fact that we aim to be the world’s top side without a third tier is stupifying

  • Pie Thrower

    I like the thinking, however I would be cautious of using a ‘Champions League’ style system. The problems the Champions League has created in Europe are well documented – it has created a two tier system – the clubs that are in it are earning significantly more money (prize money and sponshorship) and are getting bigger and more powerful each year. Clubs that are on the outside simply have no chance of breaking in.

    I’m not sure what the answers are however, and I agree something needs to be done.

    Thanks for putting up a good article.

  • http://www.twitter.com/!/BMcSport BMcSport

    It’s a topic that won’t go away guys (I’ve reflected on the 5yr milestone on The Roar today, too), and good on you Skip for continuing to push the barrow.

    David Nucifora’s comments last night (on The Rugby Club) on the continued focus on the national academy and the club system was as narrow-minded as it was worrying..

  • Justtacklehim

    The broadcast deal and coverage shouldn’t be under-estimated. The exposure of the game is critical to growing the game and the money generated feeds the compeition.

    If the Currie Cup and NPC can get Foxtel coverage each week for almost every game, so should our 3rd tier game. But additional free-to-air coverage needs to complement this. Maybe SBS with Sam Ikin on a Saturday afternoon similar to the Football segments on Sunday with highlights, etc. It cannot go to Channel 9 as it is clear they have no interest in the game and have only bought the rights to protect their interest in league.

  • Andrew Cox

    Love this Skip,

    One suggestion I’d make is that players in teams that don’t make it can be drafted into teams that do- something that used to happen when Netball first went to a national league. The beauty of this is top players in lower ranked teams can pick where they’d like to go, offsetting the need to migrate to a strong club. Set a limit of imports per club, and better players in lesser clubs can be a real asset.
    It’s worked in other sports without weakening struggling clubs, why not Rugby?

  • Nutta

    I like the idea of 3 clubs from each of Sydney & Brissy plus an ACT or 2 (don’t forget they were handing arse-kickings out last time they were involved) and maybe a couple of others (say NSW Country, QLD Country and “All States” with an indigineous slant). The Country sides may well be city based to gather the players and train, but actually play their games in regional centres like Wagga, Too’wba, Dubbo etc. You would get great crowds there and it becomes true game development

    But to stop self-fulfilling dominance by Super riddled sides from the cities I would say those who lead the respective city tables in May (when the Super players are away) qualify for the comp in July.

    That then rewards the true 3rd tier types, allows a brief window for stop-gap recruitment if needed and does not allow the Sydney Uni / Eastwood types who have 2/3rds of their early season 1st grade go back to 2nd grade when all the Supers come back to dominate the comp (sorry Uni – nothing personal but you demonstrate the point).

    Start within the safe states & areas. Once it’s strong then expand. Don’t go wide too early.

  • sheek

    Gidday Skip,

    I’m mentally exhausted from taking over BMcSport’s post over at The Roar.

    But just quickly, a national comp can either be APC (plenty of history there stretching back to 1874 for NSW & 1882 for Qld), or ARC (national clubs).

    How you select national clubs is very problematic. Back in 2007, the ARU decided on ‘greenfield’ clubs, which I agree with.

    As for all those arguments about lack of history, tradition, etc, I wonder if that was what the good folk of Sydney thought also, when the Southern Union (forerunner of the NSWRU) decided to change the rugby comp to a district system.

    Or go back to 1874 when the first official rugby comp in Sydney was organized.

    Anyway, while it might be great to see Randwick & Brothers in a national comp, whoever can appease the Sydney & Brisbane premier rugby clubs by deciding who gets a gig in the national comp, & who doesn’t, without starting a nuclear holocaust, is entitled to be called the ‘The Most Wise And Benevolent Dictator Of Australian Rugby For Life.’

    Heck, that wasn’t “just quickly” after all!

  • Fred Clark

    Reading the proposal and the comments afterwards, I was reminded of a couple of development leagues in other sports and other countries that were, or are subsidized by the top, professional franchises, in addition to the top administrative body (NFL, NBA, MLB, Premier League Soccer, etc)

    American football ran NFL Europe for 10-15 years until the franchises pulled the plug. NFL Europe was a second tier professional league used for development, and it worked very well. But the franchises ran out of money and it ended – around the time of the GFC in 2008. As far as I know it never made a profit, but it did develop a lot of talent.

    NBA basketball runs a development league (the D-League) for young players on the way up and older players on the way out. Individuals from both age groups get called up to the higher level quite frequently. (Google: “interview with NBA D-League president Dan Reed” to read in detail). The D-League gets good crowds. Each NBA franchise pays for its D-League feeder team. I assume the league runs at a loss, but it’s considered to be worth it.

    In soccer the professional clubs run a reserve grade team / squad that is stocked with developing semi-professional players. They get paid a bit, sometimes a fair bit. I don’t know if soccer franchises do a cost/benefit analysis of the profit/loss numbers on the reserve squads, but they like them because it keep professional or semi-professional talent coming through, and it’s tightly controlled.

    This is a long-winded way of saying I like Morse’s idea of running a reserve squad system in the Australian Super 15 franchises, where there is either a curtain-raiser game before a S15 game on the same field, or a nearby field. Franchises would run 60 contracted players instead of 30-ish.

    Or, the reserve squads play the opposite schedule to the top team so the home town fans always have a game to go to when their S15 team is away.

    And it develops another 150 players to a semi- or professional level under the immediate control of professional coaches, diet, and systems.

    Good idea, Morse. Great minds!

  • James

    If you’ve never seen me write on here before, I’m the Sydney kid that is living in London. Been a lifelong Waratahs supporter but my question is, what are the Super Rugby clubs doing to help kids? I have a few mates that are in the London Wasps Academy, and they have been since 16. I know a boy at my school who is 13 and in the academy. As far as I know they train twice a week with constant emails giving the boys diet/gym plans and areas of strength and weakness to try and make them the best they can be. London Wasps is only one club of many that do this. All the premiership clubs do it and most championship sides do to. What is the story in Australia? At what age does talent get tapped up? Because I think it’s vital to snap boys up early to ensure their interest to Union, and get them training almost year round to really bring out the best in them.

  • croweater

    I know a South Australian team wouldn’t be competative that’s why I suggested the AFL model. Brisbane, Gold Coast and GWS would NOT have existed without a push from the top of the AFL. I doubt if the ARU would show the same courage, hell Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth cannot even get the Bledisloe live because of the weak deal the ARU signed with 9. As for the affect on local competitions, well the same was said in SA when a team was entered in the AFL, guess what the local comp is still here and the crowds aren’t that much different from before teams entered the AFL. The ARU has to decide whether it is truly the AUSTRALIAN Rugby Union or as many call it the “East Coast” Rugby Union.

  • Duckman

    I remember looking at a supporters jersey for the ARC and finding them to be $120. For a first year comp, expecting families with kids etc to shell out for merchandise costing almost as much as that of a Super rugby side was unrealistic. Ticketing prices also need to recognise that punters won’t be emotionally invested initially. Better to start low and grow a fan base.

    The main issue is the degree of vision that would be required from an organisation that seems to be fixated on short term revenue and profit. Whilst profitability is obviously essential, a long game approach is the only way to increase revenue and guarantee success into the future against an expanding AFL and solid NRL.

  • richard

    What’s the problem, you have your ARC – its called the Super 15!

  • Fish

    Idea for developing third tier in Australia.

    Super Rugby is slowly changing, I see that in the future it will become essentially the division 1 of NZ and SA and their local competitions will become division two. Meaning that the lowest ranked super rugby team for both NZ and SA is relegated to NPC/Currie cup and the highest rated NPC/Currie cup team becomes the new Super rugby team. This allows both the Super Rugby completion and NPC/Currie Cup to run at the same time.
    Ideally Australia needs to develop the same structure to remain competitive. My suggestion is that we develop a third tier based on similar structure to ARC but have these teams sold to private ownership.
    Suggested teams:
    1) Tasmania (Tassie Tigers)
    2) Adelaide (Rams)
    3) Western Sydney
    4) NSW Country
    5) Gold coast
    6) QLD country
    7) Perth Spirit
    8) Canberra Vikings
    9) Newcastle
    10) Victoria country?
    11) Darwin Mosquitoes?

    • Team names and locations can be up for debate. Each team is to belong to private owner but also has to be affiliated with local club rugby region. We need enough teams so the competition can run along the same time as super rugby.
    • Each team has a salary cap – say 2M, but there are methods for extending the salary cap which promote rugby:
    o 25% of salary of rugby players playing in local clubs isn’t counted towards salary cap (this rate can be 35% for non-rugby regions such as Tassie, Perth, Adelaide and Victoria/Melbourne). Promoting using local players.
    o For every two dollars spent on developing local club rugby, one dollar can be added to the total salary cap. Promoting local rugby.
    o Teams can have up to 7 foreign players (note that salary of foreign players and players belonging to different regions is 100% counted towards salary cap).
    o In non-rugby areas, players developed from juniors onwards (really local players) can have 75% of salary not counted to salary cap for their first four years of playing for the team.
    For the first three years teams would not be able to “recruit” super rugby players – after this time and once the promotion/relegation system comes in place then it’s all open warfare.
    Once the current Super rugby format changes to a promotion/relegation process then the current Australian super rugby teams would have to become associated with a particular “Rugby” region and associated clubs. The “Super” rugby teams salary cap will be substantially different to the ARC but once a team is relegated they will have to fit into these rules.

    Some side points:
    1) ARU would supply ref’s. This would be an elite group of 6/7 professional refs (+ coordinator) with a focus on game fluidity rather than technical correctness. This would help strengthen international Australian ref stocks (I would steal a ref coordinator from SA).
    2) Team owners would be subject to some significant vetting:
    • Able to sustain a rugby team for over 5 years (do they have enough money)
    • Love of rugby etc.
    3) ARU would have to hire a third party to audit teams to keep the whole salary cap business above board.
    4) ARU to have a specific window when players can be recruited rather than current process.
    5) When a team is promoted to “Super Rugby” ARU to provide a leg up, maybe a bonus etc (worth looking to what they do in Europe).

    Anyway – this is just some ideas I have (it would be nice for the salary cap rules to be applied to the Force and Rebels now).

    Cheers

  • redbull

    The round robin competition should all be in one place moving like a carnival around the country. You could then negotiate pretty hard with airlines as you are guarenteeing hundreds and maybe thousands of seats to a single destination. This would also reduce costs of media coverage and would make gate sales better as there are many games over the weekend.

    This would be better than another frigging music festival.

  • JW

    This is a bit of a grave dig, and I didn’t read through all the comments so don’t shoot me down if it’s been said.

    As youngsters, we all strived to make the state teams to go on tour. Only the best from each state are chosen and they battle it out on the pitch to prove their state is best.
    This ends around the u18/u20 age groups.

    So why not just have open aged state teams as our 3rd tier?
    It would also bring back the interstate rivalry we love oh so much.
    Worth a thought!

  • Kevin

    I like some of these ideas, and i agree that Australia needs a 3rd tier competition. I just spent 3 years living in NZ, and i saw how popular the ITM Cup is. And how it benefits the Super rugby teams. Each Super team can pick players from a few NPC teams. I know the Hurricanes can pick from Wellington, Manawatu, Hawkes Bay and Taranaki, And the Crusaders can pick from Canterbury and Tasman, And the Highlanders can pick from Otago and Southland. Teams can also sign guys up from other provinces if there is interest from players.

    Now, back to the subject at hand. I know the ARU tried setting up a competition in 2007, and also how it turned out. But i beleive if they time it right and put in the time and effort it can be done.

    I’ve been doing some thinking ever since we lost the first game to NZ in Sydney. We can do it. I like the way Skip has worked everything out. I have thought about where rugby is popular and where it is possible to set up teams and i have come up with the following.

    Teams -
    Brisbane – Draws players from Brisbane based clubs. Home Ground – Ballymore.
    Gold Coast – Draws players from Gold Coast area. Home Ground – Maybe Cararra or the new one they built?
    Southern Queensland – Draws players from Darling Downs, Wide Bay etc. Basically all teams south of say Rockhampton. Home Ground – Clive Berghofer Stadium, Toowoomba. I say this because the Downs Rugby comp has 13 teams, and 3 of those teams are based in Toowoomba, so i’d say most of the players will come from the Downs. Also its not far from Brisbane or Gold Coast for when either of those teams play against them.
    Northern Queensland – Draws players from clubs north of Rocky. Home Ground – probably Cairns or Townsville.
    Western Sydney – Draws players from clubs in western half. Home Ground – unknown, any ideas?.
    Eastern Sydney – Draws players from eastern half. Home Ground – Unknown, any ideas?
    Northern NSW – Draws players from clubs north of Sydney. Home Ground – imo probably Gosford or Newcastle.
    Southern NSW – Draws players from clubs south of Sydney. Homeground – imo probably Wollongong or a rather big regional centre or share home games between the two to share the load between coastal and country areas.
    ACT – Players drawn from Canberra clubs.
    Melbourne – Players drawn from clubs in greater melbourne area. Homeground – probably Etihad.
    Country Victoria – Draws players from outside of Melbourne. Homeground – imo best bet is probably Bendigo.
    Greater Tasmania – Draws players from all over Tasmania. Home Ground – probably Aurora Stadium in Launceston.
    Perth – Draws players from Greater Perth Area. Home Ground – Patersons.

    Each team plays each other twice, similar to shute shield. Each player should get $500 per match and $100 per training session, average 2 -3 training sessions a week. theres $800 per week for each player.

    Also i think each teams should have 45 players, 1st 15 main playing group, 2nd and 3rd 15′s can be development and reserves, so if teams are hit with injuries they still have capable players.

    There’s 12 teams that i’ve come up with over the last few weeks. Give it a go for a few seasons then look at expanding into South Australia and Northern Territory.

    Any ideas on how this way could be improved would be great. if this doesnt work we could always do Toyota Cup style comp with teams from major centres around the country, meh, the possibilities.

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