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Thursday’s Rugby News

Thursday’s Rugby News

Thursdays Rugby News sees More Israel Folau news, Reds need to defend against Sharks, Wallabies to wear Indigenous jersey at the World Cup, Simmons warns of lethal Cooper Genia Combo.


IZZY WANTS A HEARING

Israel Folau

Israel Folau

Israel Folau waited until the 11th hour to respond to his breach of notice and request a Code of  Conduct hearing.

Rugby Australia will now make arrangements with the Rugby Union Players’ Association (RUPA) to bring together the Code of Conduct hearing.

Rugby Australia Chief Executive, Raelene Castle said: “Israel has responded formally today to request a Code of Conduct hearing which, under the circumstances, was not an unexpected outcome. We will now work to confirm a date for the hearing as soon as possible.

“After the date for the hearing is confirmed Rugby Australia and the NSW Rugby Union will make no further comment on the matter until the Code of Conduct process has concluded.”

It is unlikely this matter will be resolved soon with Easter and ANZAC Day holidays causing a delay, Former Wallaby Tim Horan believes it could be the week of the 29th of April that the hearing will take place.

The panel will be made up of a representative appointed by Rugby Australia , one appointed by RUPA and a third person, to be appointed by both parties.

Should the hearing rule in Folau’s favour then he would be eligible to play for the Waratahs and the Wallabies, though after Micheal Cheika’s comments on Monday, this seems highly unlikely. Waratah’s coach Daryl Gibson and Captain Michael Hooper appeared to share the same sentiment.

Despite which what the decision goes, it can always be appealed in the Supreme Court.

NSWRU are still standing Folau down until the hearing.

Former Wallaby Drew Mitchell took to social media to share an exert from Folau’s Players Voice article last year, in which Izzy said if he was hurting Australian Rugby he would walk away from his contract.

“I told Raelene if she felt the situation had become untenable — that I was hurting Rugby Australia, its sponsors and the Australian rugby community to such a degree that things couldn’t be worked through — I would walk away from my contract, immediately.”

Mitchell shared this quote along with some of his own thoughts. 

2018 vs 2019

When words & actions aren’t aligned….

The fact @RugbyAU intend to terminate @IzzyFolau contract would suggest it’s become untenable.

I would hate to think Izzy is a liar because we know what happens to them..

Current Vice Captain of the Wallabies Will Genia thinks that the Wallabies will fine without Folau, though acknowledges his talent will be missed.

“We can definitely win the World Cup without him,” Genia told the Fox Rugby Podcast.

“We’ve certainly got talent within the country to cope without Israel.

“We’ve got Dane Haylett-Petty who can play fullback, Jack Maddocks who can play fullback and you’ve got to be able to trust those guys if they’re given the opportunity to play.

“I think we’ll be fine without him.

“And I’m not trying to be disrespectful by saying that, I just have a lot of confidence in us as a playing group and the players that we have at the moment.”

“His playing ability, he’s phenomenal, he will score you tries that 90 per cent of the players in the world won’t.

“He will always attract two or three defenders, he will always beat two or three defenders and look for the offload, he’s a phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal player.

“Like I said, I back anyone else to take his position, but at the same time you will always know that if you’re going to have a guy like him in the team you’re going to be better for it.

“I’m just going to be honest about that because it’s easy to kick him while he’s down and say ‘we don’t need you, we’ll be better off without you’ like other people have said, but I don’t think that’s true.”

REDS TEAM AGAINST THE SHARKS

Samu Kerevi

Samu Kerevi

Reds Assistant coach Peter Ryan has drawn a line in the sand for his players ahead of their clash against  the Sharks in Durban, saying they will be in for a thrashing if they pull the same ‘insipid’ defensive work from last weekend. 

“If you asked any one of the players we would all say we were pretty disgusted with our performance,” Ryan said.

“And there’s no excuse for the way that we played.”

“If our defence is as it was last week, they’ll put 50 points on us clearly and easily,” Ryan said.

“(But) with the quality of our group, our attitude towards the defensive side of the game is at a premium.

“Therefore, we can expect a lot better situation with regards to our effort and attitude to our defence, so that’s a big plus for me.”

The Reds lost 32-17 to the Bulls in Pretoria and despite spending large amounts of the match in defence, the finished up with 35 missed tackles

Despite there being an expectation that Samu Kerevi would be rested as apart of the Wallabies resting policy, he has been named at 12 once again.

Sefa Niavalu comes back after being rested last week, and Harry Hoopert and Angus Scott-Young come in to the starting line up.

JP Smith and Harry Hockings move to the bench and Aidan Toua has been left out of the 23 all together.

Reds coach Brad Thorn believes his forward pack is up for the challenge of taking on the wounded Sharks, who coped a massive lost to the Jaguares last week.

“After last week’s result, they’ll be hungry and looking to put in a big performance in front of their home fans,” Thorn said.

“It’s great to have Sefa back. He was missed last week. After sitting out against the Bulls, he’s ready to rip in.

“Harry Hoopert gets an opportunity to start for the first time. It’s reward for his hard work and as a group we congratulate this achievement.

“Apart from Scott Higginbotham, the starting forward pack all played Queensland U20s with each other.

“They’ve all worked and grown together since then. It goes to show the strength and importance of the Queensland pathway.”

Reds to play Sharks

1. Harry Hoopert 2. Alex Mafi 3. Taniela Tupou 4. Izack Rodda 5. Lukhan Salakaia-Loto – 6. Angus Scott-Young 7. Liam Wright 8. Scott Higginbotham 9. Tate McDermott 10. Bryce Hegarty 11. Jack Hardy 12. Samu Kerevi (c) 13. Chris Feauai-Sautia 14. Sefa Naivalu 15. Hamish Stewart 

Reserves

16. Brandon Paenga-Amosa 17. JP Smith 18. Ruan Smith 19. Harry Hockings 20. Adam Korczyk 21. Moses Sorovi 22. Duncan Paia’aua 23. Jock Campbell

MORE INDIGENOUS JERSEY

Australian National Anthem

Australian National Anthem

Rugby Australia has lodged an application for the Wallabies to wear their Indigenous jersey in two the World Cup matches in September and potentially October.

Michael Cheika the Lloyd McDermott Rugby Development Team fundraising dinner in Sydney that the request is for the Uruguay match and in a potential semi-final match, if the Wallabies make it that far.

The jersey has been worn twice, once against New Zealand in 2017 and once against England in 2018. Its popularity among the playing group had Will Genia suggest it should become the Wallabies main strip for all test matches.

The only current Indigenous Australian Wallaby, Kurtley Beale, told the media last year he hoped one day the jersey could be worn at the World Cup.

“It would be nice to wear it at the World Cup one day. Maybe that’s something we could talk about in the future. You have two playing strips in the World Cup. To be able to have the jersey in the back pocket just for a big game … I know that it can galvanise the group,” Beale said.

“I certainly felt that last year but I think it’s a special jersey to be able to wear and I know a lot of the playing group are fully behind it and support it and would love to continue such a special thing.”

The jersey was designed by Dennis Golding and is a tribute to all past and present Indigenous players, baring the Indigenous flag and a Wallaby surrounded by 14 symbols to honour the 14 Indigenous and Torres Strait Islanders who have represented the country. 

 

SIMMONS WARY OF LETHAL GENIA AND COOPER

DJ Will Genia and MC Quade Cooper  Reds v Rebels 2019

The reunion of Will Genia and Quade Cooper at the Melbourne Rebels has been one of the most talked about story of 2019, and they face a familiar opponent the same questions get asked.

This time it is of former Reds player turned Waratah, Rob Simmons who played along side Genia and Cooper in 2011 when the Reds won the Super Rugby title.

He knows just how lethal that pairing can be.

“I know them very well and how lethal they can be,” he said.

“It looks like they’re back on the page that they know so well.

“They’re playing together very well, they’ve got a good combination, it’s quite clear their communication between each other is very clear or black and white, there’s no confusion between them, which rubs off on the rest of the team.

“The rest of the team know what their role is and I suppose that’s why they’re playing so well.”

Genia and Cooper have played a massive role in the Rebels flat attack style that has put opposition defenders under immense pressure.

“It puts the defensive team under pressure to make the right decisions,” he said.

“Those two guys you’re speaking about, Will and Quade, can pick and misread something like that and if you crumble under pressure then they can put someone away and you’re behind your goal posts.”

It is something that has worked most matches until last weekend against the Stormers.

“I think the Stormers did it well on the weekend,” he said.

“They shut down their front foot ball, they probably got a little bit outworked there and then they lost their way after that.

“So, I suppose if we can know what they’re planning to do and shut that down then they have to go to something else.”

The Waratahs forward pack has come under plenty of criticism this year, and with the loss of Ned Hannigan this week, Simmons acknowledges the threat of the Rebels. Simmons is looking forward to matching up against Adam Coleman, with both men fighting for a spot on the plane to Japan.

“I think he’s (Coleman) been playing very well but as a group we’ve got to all stand up,” Simmons said.

“Their pack has been going quite well and it’s a challenge for our pack to go out there and do a job.”

 

  • Kiwi rugby lover

    Thanks Dylan,

    That Reds team looks about their best although I’m still not 100% in favour of their 9/10 combination, not that I think any other choices are much better more that they still need development. I hope they step up this weekend and I think they probably can, I just see such a lack of consistency you can never be sure what team will be there. Mind you I don’ think the Sharks are any different and in a lot of ways their consistency has been worse so who knows. I do like the lack of certainty about the matches this year but not so much the up and down performances of the teams.

    I personally like the indigenous jersey and wouldn’t be averse to it being the main strip for Australia going forward. I think it adds to the sense of inclusion that RA is trying to bring to the game.

    Not so sure the loss of Hannigan is that much of a big deal, I think Staniforth did more in 3 carries last week than he’s done in the last 3 years. This game is going to be good, It’ll be interesting to see how Beale (Gilbert) goes at 15 and I’m sure he’ll be peppered with kicks, I hope the Reds chase game is on or it’ll be wasted. I still think Beale works better from broken play and there will be more opportunities at 15 than there are at 12 so if he can catch he could shine a bit. Hunt needs to go back to running straight rather than crabbing like he did last week and if the Rebels get back to their best then the game will be a cracker.

    • Dylan Langes

      I don’t know if the Tahs will play Beale this week, I think he still has tonsillitis, so might need some time off. Im not fan of Hannigan but Staniforth can be pretty inconsistent too. Though he has gotten better at using his size this season. From what I’ve seen Hannigan has had a decent line out game this season which has definitely been a Rebels strength.
      Im with you KRL, I love the jersey and would happily see the team rock it for every test, and make a change every time we add a new Indigenous or TSI player to the squad.
      The South Africans have been even more inconsistent than Australian teams this year. Who knows how this will go. Interesting Thorn isn’t going for Kerevi Sefa centres this week.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Hannigan has always been a good lineout jumper, he just lacks physicality around the field. He carries himself too upright and doesn’t dominate in either attack or defence which let’s him down

        • Dylan Langes

          Once again we see an underdone player rushed into a super team and rushed in a gold jersey rather than letting him develop

    • IIPA

      KB is no certainty to play however. And if he’s climbing off his sick bed I’d probably rather Cam Clark back there, Hunt and Foketi in the centres with Rona and Newsome on the wings.

      Genia’s reply re Folau is pretty classy. Drew Mitchell not so much. He raises a point though.

      Anyway I’ve come to the conclusion Folau will eventually win his case on court appeal but never play for the Wallabies again. The Tahs maybe. I have no legal basis for this, just a gut feel how it will play out. De Belin will win against the NRL too.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        SMH is saying KB will play mate.

      • Dylan Langes

        The full Genia interview is pretty good. He hits the nail on the head. Im more impressed Mitchell took a stand against a player

    • Adrian

      Pretty good Tah team IMO KRL.

      Looks like they’ll try and lift the tempo with 20 to go, if you look at the bench.

      Bookies give Tahs 1/2 point start. I’ll go with that.

      Some key match-ups here, especially in the halves. Big chance for Gordon.

      Both teams will think of kicking to their wings, …so disruption will be a key tactic.

      I expect that Tahs will pull out something unused as yet. They should have plenty of enthusiasm too after the week off

      I think all players will be a bit distracted, but probably these two teams have enough experience to overcome that.

      • Kiwi rugby lover

        Hey Adrian. I think in a lot of ways the teams are quite equal but I think the Rebels combinations are better where it counts. I also still think Hunt is struggling a bit at 12 and AAC hasn’t done a lot yet. TBH I think it’ll be a great game

      • Brumby Runner

        Both teams kicking to their wings? Are you expecting Foley to forget that Folau will be missing?

        I can certainly see Quade using the cross kick for Maddocks if he’s back.

  • Cameron Rivett

    You think they’d be asking to use the indigenous strip against Wales or at least Fiji rather than Uruguay.

    • Dylan Langes

      This is RA Cameron, baby steps

  • A few points:
    1. Is there any reason the indigenous jersey is not our only jersey? It is a great looking jersey and represents us all. It would be sensational if it were worn at the RWC, even if there wasn’t any indigenous players in the team… (KB)
    2. “We’ve got Dane Haylett-Petty who can play fullback”… is he not our form fullback at the moment, easily? And offers a great deal to the team in that
    3. The reds have had ample opportunity to develop a 9/10 combination over the past 2 years and yet, here we are.
    4. while the youngens all played U20s, how have they gone without, in particular, a 10 who can control the match and link the ball to the backs.
    5. The contact issues we hear about are going to cost the RA $4mill? Who writes these up? Aren’t social media clauses a natural part of player contracts? Is RA a little naive and amateurish?

    • Dylan Langes

      Im with you id be happy to see the players wear the jersey for every test match, especially home test matches.

    • Who?

      Honestly, if this costs RA $4 million, I don’t think they’re at fault (and neither is Folau). It’s a test case where you can only do your best, but it’s down to interpretation of law on the given day. It’s a code of conduct issue (the extra social media stuff is an external agreement and is likely to be unenforceable under the RUPA EBA), and even then it’s a question of who determines what’s a breach of the code of conduct, etc. See, I’d hazard that Folau doesn’t think his tenure is untenable, that he hasn’t targeted anyone, that he hasn’t been disrespectful. Is he the judge of that, or is RA? Arguably RA, but then it can go to the courts, and then they’ve got to answer whether it’s discrimination, hate speech, etc. Which is no guaranteed thing (especially given he directly quoted the Bible).
      .
      I don’t think that it’s an open and shut case for anyone, and so I don’t blame RA if they end up ‘losing’ the $4 million.

      • Dylan Langes

        The Rugby Ruckus special on Folau when they interviewed an Employment Law lawyer was really interesting on the ground that RA have. It is definitely worth a listen. You’re right they can’t add amendments to a players contract but the wording of the contract and code of conduct will come into play.
        I wouldn’t be surprised if it ends in an out of court settlement.

        • Keith Butler

          Yep. Just like the lady in Tassie who worked for Cricket Australia and criticised the Tassie government on social media.

        • IIPA

          What happened to those SA cricket officials who posed with SBW masks to rile up David Warner?

        • Who?

          They won….. Warner got out the sand paper.
          It’s amazing that wasn’t given more attention in the era of #MeToo and an era when we’re trying to end ‘slut shaming’.

      • onlinesideline
        • Timbo

          Seems like the kinda guy who knows what he’s talking about.

        • Who?

          That’s a pretty balanced look. It shows that both parties have argument, and that there’s a pretty good chance that RA won’t win it. That the mob mentality of piling on doesn’t work, because it makes the person who was supposedly discriminating into a minority, which means there’s no permission to discriminate against him.

      • idiot savant

        Part of me hopes that RA lose this and use it establish a policy going forward where they cease contracting players for longer than 3 years on multi million dollar contracts.

        • Greg

          This is the whole other discussion… RA must have been absolutely confident that they had the issue well and truly resolved before they went to a multi-year contract.

          Either they have been very naive or indeed there was a clear understanding which has been breached.

          Why would you go to a 4 year contract if there was any doubt at all. Maybe they thought it would take 4 years to learn to tackle? pass both ways? not get turned over? :-)

        • David Creagh

          Multi year contracts without a performance based or behaviour based out clause in a sporting code are lunacy. Who is to say that a player does not lose form but keeps getting selected to justify the money they are being played or they have a major injury preventing them from playing.

        • Who?

          Injury is something that should be compensated, though. That’s just workers comp. Don’t forget, the evil Heresy that is League only gained a foothold in Australia because a bloke got injured playing Rugby, and wasn’t compensated.
          .
          There’s a standard behaviour clause, that’s the code of conduct. In Folau’s case, the lawyers (and I’d suggest ultimately the NSW Supreme Court) will determine whether or not he broke it, and, if he did, whether or not the code of conduct impinged on other rights.
          .
          Performance clauses? That’s something that’s easier to argue. It’s incredible that Cooper didn’t HAVE to play club last year – he just chose to do so. Same for Hunt. It’s incredible that Hooper’s got a FIVE year contract. And given that, according to RUPA’s EBA, no clauses can be added to a contract that aren’t beneficial to the player, I don’t see how it has a performance clause. Four years for Folau was a long contract, people were complaining that Cooper’s was three years!
          .
          A much smarter way to work would be to go to a guaranteed payment rate, with scheduled bonuses for game time (with time injured counting as game time – I believe that’s how the NFL operates?), and shorter contracts with multi-year options (i.e. sign for 3, with an option of an extra 2 years on a 1 + 1 basis, with right of refusal for RA and a ‘last offer’ sort of thing like TV rights have, where, if the player wants to leave, RA has the option to match the offer from their competition)..?

    • idiot savant

      McDermott and Stewart were the 20s halves combination but McKay has put a stop to that.

    • Nutta

      Regarding Izzy, it is developing into a nice little earner for a few lawyers – both Contract and Constitutional Lawyers. I was listening to one Law Prof from Uni Notre Dame on Radio national last night who was arguing RA were limiting Izzy’s right given section 116 of Constitution and the freedom to have and practice religion in that if a legit part of your religion is to proselytize and it isn’t hate-speech (which to be fair what he said is not hate-speech, there is no incitement to earthly violence), then RA cannot contract away his right accordingly. What Old-Mate was arguing was for was to be objective in the analysis of what was ACTUALLY said and not being cowed by a popularist position of the day. Personally I think it’s a croc – with full knowledge and advice Izzy signed relevant contracts which he has clearly breached in unapologetic and deliberate manners twice in a 12mth period. So he should be toast.

      • Brisneyland Local

        Nutta, was having a beer with member of my family who is a QC. He reckons RA are fucked. Infact, proper fucked!
        As I am a juris prudence ignoramous, I take his advice as gospel. Quite handy at times having a family member who is a QC.

        • Nutta

          What is actually really getting to me in all this is no matter what else happens, Izzy will not wear a Wobbly jersey again. But what law has he broken? What physical act of repulsion did he commit? Who did he punch/rape/spew-on/ram etc? He said some distasteful stuff and stuff I and a lot of others don’t agree with, but all he did was SAY stuff that wasn’t hate-speech. But Beale still gets to run around in my national jersey? Patston & Link? The Qantas flight? The punched Rebels Captain? Do I need to keep going? That will do me.

        • Brisneyland Local

          I agree 100% and I am sure that pesky legal thing called precedence will be used. Beale, Hunt and Slipper! At the end of the day, he has committed no criminal offence. unlike the others.

        • idiot savant

          What? Double standards at RA? Surely not.

        • Damo19

          Spot on Nutta. Pretty innocuous really. Which just brings me back to the risk and return issue for posting his go to hell checklist. Risk, given his situation,huge. Return i.e. wtf was he hoping to achieve by posting? Nothing, nil, nada . Why did he do it? Stupid is as stupid does.

        • Who?

          Mate, I just wanna see your contact list……… As it slowly leaks out, it just gets more and more impressive!
          .
          Tim Wilson (former equality commissioner, proposed to his partner (feels too immature to say ‘Boyfriend’)) has come out in support of Folau today…

        • Brisneyland Local

          Yeah saw that.
          Dont be impressed by members of my fmaily. You cant choose your family. I would rather be judged by my friends! And we will all be burning in hell happily together! ;-)

        • Nutta

          Proud to be a rugby playing, fornicating, idolatrous drinker.

        • Brisneyland Local

          We are in good company

        • Pearcewreck

          Yep BBL, I agree 100%, and I said as much yesterday.
          I’ll repeat it here folks, mark my words,

          Assuming Folau takes this to court, then In 6 months time or so,
          a) Folau will still be in Oz Rugby.
          b) Castle will be gone.
          c) A few RA board members will also be gone.

        • Brisneyland Local

          I don’t know if Izzy will remain but 2& 3 are definitely true

        • onlinesideline

          I agree IF it goes to court – thing is will he get through the Code of Conduct hearing. I wonder who these 3 judges will be.

        • Who?

          It doesn’t matter if Folau can’t get through the Code of Conduct hearing – just means he’s the one taking it to court rather than RA. It’d be interesting to know who might take on his case (I think there’d be people who’d be keen to do it at low cost, if he loses, and high cost if he wins).
          .
          The three judges will be very unfortunate people who we should all pity. :-(

        • Greg

          It was announced earlier this afternoon – Alan Jones, Barnaby Joyce, George Pell

        • onlinesideline

          that made me chuckle

        • idiot savant

          Who’s the odd one out?

        • Who?

          Well, only one of them is a convicted sex offender…… It’s one thing to have a low opinion of someone, another to say they’re as good as a paedophile. :-

        • idiot savant

          The furtherest thing from my mind. I think Greg was trying to assemble a panel who were all going to hell.

      • Timbo

        His first contract wouldn’t have had a clause in it to the effect that he wasn’t allowed to proselytise because he hadn’t done it yet. The second one couldn’t have had it either because that would have infringed on his right to religious freedom. The word on the street is the agreement he broke was a verbal agreement and that means two fifths of sweet FA in court.
        As BL said, RA is toast.

      • idiot savant

        Whichever way it goes, this incident will potentially remain forever a stain on Folau’s character. He was asked not to use his social media profile to cause offence to others, including homosexuals, regardless of his beliefs, and he gave that undertaking. In return for that undertaking he was rewarded with a huge contract for 4 million dollars. He has now rescinded that undertaking but wants to keep the 4 million dollars and is prepared to cause harm to the game that has rewarded him and argue technicalities to hold on to that precious money. Clearly his word is not his bond. Is this conduct a betrayal? Morally reprehensible? A sign of mental illness? Greed? You be the judge.

        • Who?

          I think he believes he hasn’t been offensive, hasn’t breached the code of conduct, and hasn’t broken his word, and doesn’t believe the situation is untenable. Clearly many disagree with him!
          .
          Being asked not to offend people is a bit rough – we don’t get to choose how other people react to our statements. Offence is solely controlled by the reader/listener. Two people can hear the same thing, one’s offended, one’s not. I drove past a Fraser Anning’s Conservative Party candidate sign earlier. Clearly that bloke wasn’t offended when Mr Anning spoke (at any time). When many other Australians (and I’d imagine most conservatives, at some point) have been offended by his speech. The decision whether or not we take offence is our own, not the speaker’s.

        • idiot savant

          Does he really believe that though? Really? Deep down? Swear on the Bible and all that? If so, he is astonishingly unconnected to the real world or suffering from some kind of delusion.

          Regarding offense. I agree its difficult. However offense is not always the province of the offended. Offensive conduct is a crime and of course Folau is a long way from being guilty of that. I think the test for offensive conduct is whether or not a reasonable person would be offended by the conduct. Folau’s post is really at worst an insult which I dont think qualifies as offensive conduct even if a reasonable person would be offended by it.

          However does he really believe that equating homosexuals to adulterers, drunks, liars and thieves is inoffensive to gay people? Can he walk up to a gay person and say your fate will be the same as a thief and honestly believe that is not offensive? This is leaving aside the issue of his being asked not to do something by his employer, saying he wouldn’t and then going ahead and arrogantly doing it.

        • Who?

          I’m only guessing, but yeah, I reckon that’s how he probably sees it. Otherwise, how does he justify it all?
          Being disconnected from the rest of the world, I’d also argue that he’s not unfamiliar with that concept (given he was a Mormon, and they tend to be isolated), and probably not too concerned about it. Less concerned about that than helping people join his own path.
          .
          The problem with asking whether a ‘reasonable’ person is offended by the conduct (or statement, or whatever) is defining ‘reasonable’. And in the case of Folau’s post, it’s also about whether that ‘reasonable’ person would consider the actual post, as written, or the hyperbole in the press, and what their own inherent internal biases might be.
          The story about juries is that they’re meant to be a jury of our peers, but would your peers think that differently to yourself? If you’re prosecuting someone for tax fraud, then providing a jury of non-accountants isn’t exactly a jury of the peers of the accused (given we’re likely talking about someone who understand tax law as well as its authors – perhaps better). If we’re talking a jury of Israel’s peers for interpreting his statements, I’d suggest they’d see things similarly to him.
          .
          In terms of how gay people see Folau’s statement, I’m not gay, but I’d hardly expect that you’d get the same response from every person. You’d probably get some outrage, some disinterest, some concern for the guy’s own mental health…
          In terms of what his employer asked, that’s in the verbal agreement (not in his contract), and even that’s down to his interpretation.
          .
          I’m not saying he should’ve made the post. I’m just advocating a little time looking through Folau’s eyes (as best we can). I don’t think there’s many out there who think he did a good thing, but the only way we could ever comprehend the situation is to try and see it from all sides.
          .
          And of course, we wish that it never happened – especially not in Rugby……

        • idiot savant

          Thats the trouble with western liberal democracy. Its too tolerant….

        • Who?

          Without it, gay people would still live a life outside the law… Tolerance has to extend every direction. If we can’t tolerate one, we can’t tolerate any. So it’s then about a contest of ideas, and ensuring that freedoms aren’t impeded (i.e. my belief that league is evil shouldn’t prevent anyone from watching league. Except my family).

        • idiot savant

          I rest my case.

        • Who?

          At which point in history would you stop the clock..? In terms of laws?

        • idiot savant

          I live in the present. Not sure about Izzy…

        • Geoffro

          I wouldn’t leave aside the issue of his disregard for his employer at all as it is the main issue at hand.Don’t give a rats about his beliefs or constitutional rights , he unnecessarily damaged the image of the product at a time when it is already battling.Reckon RA has a right to demand his dismissal and support them.

        • Nutta

          On the face of it you raise some bloody good points there.

  • onlinesideline

    Thing about the idigenous jersey – its in reference to Australia’s indigenous people ie the Aborigine people. Yet we only have 1 Aboriginal in the team. That should actually be a bit of an embarassemt for us TBH.

    The fact that the team is chokka full of Pacific Islanders doesnt really have any significance does it ? Their idigineous roots are of their nations. This jersey is of Australlian Aborigine culture aesthetically isnt it. No disrespect to the islanders, love them , but this is the truth. We need to be tapping into a whole country of fleet footed Coori fellas and we arent. What are we actually doing here by tis jersey – saying what axactly. Dont get me wrong. I like it. But for me there is a disconnect re the Islander boys as the aint Aborigine. What am I missing here ?

    • RF

      It’s acknowledging the true custodians of Australia from a team which has often been representative of WASP oppressive culture.

      It is real symbolism of this land and worthy of a place on the jersey.

      • onlinesideline

        RF – I get your second sentence, but blowed if I get your first.

        • Dud Roodt

          Generally speaking I think the catholics were forced to come here though

        • onlinesideline

          They seemed to enjoy once they were here though. Some of the stories coming out of those aborginal orphanages at the turn of the century. Horrific.

        • Dud Roodt

          Yeah I can’t imagine Ireland during the potato famine was much chop!
          Yes, agree, absolutely terrible. Most Australians have no idea about the true breadth of the treatment of Aboriginal people

        • Who?

          The Irish were always good at punishing themselves. We don’t know anything different. 853 years since Strongbow arrived in my home county, culturally, the Irish are still not very good at financial security or leadership. How many times do we see that the first generation of people ‘freed’ after being oppressed become similarly horrific oppressors, racist, etc?
          .
          Many Irish in the US copped massive discrimination, but were amongst the most racist against African Americans, Italians, Latinos, etc. Why? Because, ultimately, everyone feels insecure, and that insecurity comes out as racism, oppression, etc.
          .
          That doesn’t justify any of it. It just shows that it’s a pattern that’s not easy to break.
          .
          That said, it’s amazing how many Indigenous Australians have Irish surnames… It seems the Irish were far more likely to consider the similarly oppressed Indigenous to be their equals (and marry them) than the ‘WASP’ population (which I’ll happily admit is a far more common term in the US, especially from the perspective of people like the Kennedys, who were WIC’s – they shared colour, but not ethnicity or religion).
          .
          Back to the real subject, I do wish that it felt less like cultural appropriation to wear the jersey. Adam Goodes wants Beale to lead the Wallabies in the war dance he controversially did (controversially because he did something that should’ve been sanctioned – he taunted opposition supporters – where if he’d done it to fire up his own supporters, it would’ve been one of the great moments in Australian sport) at the RWC, leading the Wallabies in it. Without KB, and without Goodes’ blessing (and the good will of other Indigenous Australias), it’d be cultural appropriation. I hope that, somehow, we see more Indigenous Aussies finding a pathway to the top, and embracing a game that also has a strongly elitist history.

  • Hoss

    Anyone else see the irony with the timing of the possible resurrection of Dusty’s career – especially given I had thought we had witnessed his Last Super.

    His devotion is quite literal. I don’t have lepracy, but I do have a nasty rash I’d like him to look at.

    • onlinesideline

      Get of Darwn now – your comment doest make sense. You’ve got some kind of jungle fever. You need to verify your age, weight, date of birth and what you ate for dinner last night or we gonna have to call 000 and get the ambos around.

      • disqus_NMX

        Hint – it’s Easter this weekend!

        But you’re quite right about Darwin, it’s hell on earth.

        • Timbo

          Dunno what you’re talking about. Mitchell St is a great place… For an AJ

    • idiot savant

      Only this time the resurrected one will be rewarded for betrayal and get to keep the 30 pieces of silver!

  • Brisneyland Local

    Morning GAGR’s. Well this issue of Izzy is the herpes of Australian rugby. The gift that just keeps on giving. My random thoughts whilst contemplating catching a plane home for the Easter period:
    – Here is my bet boys and girls. RA (and for the record I agree with them) in getting rid of Izzy have fucked this up contractually, legally, and procedurally. Infact RA couldn’t run a piss up in a brewery and they are going to get walloped. Even if their code of conduct hearing dismisses Izzy, this will end up in court, and they will get walloped! Six of the best, trousers down, old school style.
    – So then what do we do? Pay Izzy to play club rugby because sure as shit we are not going to select him for the Wallas or the Tah’s? Here we go QC mark 2. Or do we pay him out. Either way RA are fucked!
    – The Indigenous jersey is great. But do we have to play KB so that we have an indigenous player when we wear it? On form he doesn’t make the 23, so do we have to select him just to wear the jersey? I think we can make it a permanent jersey. I like it, but I am not sure now on the context.
    – This weekend of rugby I am looking forward to. Rebs by 7+ I reckon.
    – I watched a replay of Cheika being interviewed by Leigh sales. What an embarrassment! Surely everyone in RA was cringing watching, a borderline inarticulate and unintelligible Ass clown dribble shit. Fuck me, everyone in the rugby world must be watching that going, Phewwwww! These wallabies will be easy beats because there is no way in gods (or Izzy’s) green earth that anyone would understand what this fool is trying to communicate.
    Over to you GAGR’s!

    • Bobas

      That’s why we are wearing it for the Uruguay game, so Beale can play 10 as he’ll be Foley’s understudy at the world cup.

      • Brisneyland Local

        That is exactly what I was afraid of!

        • GO THE Q REDS

          Yep there goes our chances….

      • Ian

        Poppycock! Toomua will be the 10, Beale will be sitting on the bench for centres, we have plenty of fullbacks, so I reckon Foley will be Toomuas understudy.

        Reason being, Cheika isn’t the only selector anymore. expect more of the likes of Banks, DHP, Hodge, Toomua, Meakes etc.

    • RF

      Let’s hope Beale is selected on merit and is in the form we know he is capable of come the World Cup. If every player hits top form he would be in the team.

      • Brisneyland Local

        YEs but the problem is he will be selected regardless of his form!

        • disqus_NMX

          I’d say the problem is he’s been coached out of form, and unfortunately that isn’t going to change with AssClown still in charge. (And played out of position – he should be 15).

        • Brisneyland Local

          A 15 that cant catch a highball or defend. That scares me more than a 10 that cant tackle, cant kick, cant pass in one direction, cant tackle and cant orchestrate an attack.

        • The trouble is if you watch him play, only 18 months ago or so, at Wasps he could do both those things. I mean, he wasn’t necessarily someone you’d bet your house on to do either in any given instance, but you’d probably put $10 on it and get lousy odds because he was pretty decent.

          Then he pulled on that light blue and green and gold jersey and promptly forgot how to do both.

        • disqus_NMX

          Exactly. He can totally do all these things.

        • Brisneyland Local

          EP, as previously mentioned on here, I think it has been ocached out of him and Foley.

        • I wonder. I’m not saying you’re wrong but part of me wonders if they weren’t comfy skills for him and Wasps made their whole team practise so he improved. In NSW and the Wallabies camps they’re not worked on, or not as much (because they’re clearly not core skills…) so they’ve receded. And because he’s a marquee player who won’t be dropped, he doesn’t put the effort in to maintain them on his own.

          Same with Foley. He has to kick goals, so he spends time in practise kicking goals. To pick two great 10’s from other countries I remember watching interviews with both Wilkinson and Carter who regarded goal-kicking as “extra practise” and would turn up early or stay late because it was a solitary skill. During team training time, they’d be doing team drills. That would doubtless include tackle practise and cross-field kicks and kicks to the corner to get the chasers ready – England and NZ were never poor in those departments.

          I’m sure they’re not lazy, but from the outside there seems to be an aura of complacency and lack of improvement, or even backsliding, in too many players that makes me (and others) wonder what they’re doing – Beale’s skills going backwards in these areas just seems like another symptom of it.

        • Brisneyland Local

          EP, really well written and I agree. The original point I was trying to make is that the coaches havent made Foley or Beale lift there game. They are incumbent, there appears to be little competition will at least appears that way, so they get comfortable with being average. Everyone knows their skill deficiencies. They are bought ad nauseum here on this website. And we are only keen but amatuer observers. Surely the rofessional coaches see and know their issues. But it looks like both in the Tahs and Wallabies set ups they have been able to not address these. Appalling.

    • Dylan Langes

      Maybe this Folau thing is our punishment for being sinners?
      I think there is still some Aussie pride in the jersey. As Cheika said when you pull on that jersey you represent all Australians. Im all for keeping it. Though it would be good to see more Indigenous and TSI players in the team. Theres a few guys running around in the AFL and NRL we could have used a few years back.
      I haven’t seen the Cheika Leigh Sales interview, is it as bad as his recent Fox Sports one when he called out Folau Fainga’a?

      • Brisneyland Local

        Worse. You can see it online. It is absolutely appalling! Even by Cheika’s standards!

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Rebels by 12+ mate. KB’s playing at 15 so it’ll be Gilberts all day long

      • Brisneyland Local

        Falcons and asideways running. Yahooooooo

      • Bernie Chan

        Expect a high ball to arrive on Gilbert as Meakes n Koroibete arrive…don’t think the Rebs will kick it so Gilbert can run it back…

        • Who?

          Koroibete does a lot of dumb things on the field, but you can’t ever question the bloke’s commitment, or how hard he chases! I don’t think he’d be even thinking of trying to catch any ball going to Gilbert – he’ll just be in heat-seeking missile mode…

        • Bernie Chan

          Yeh…Koroibete is a bit of a ‘loose cannon’, but commits 100%. Hope there’s no ‘yellow/red card’ tackle.
          Hanigan vs Jones…like to have seen that but won’t matter to Cheika as one of them is pencilled in…
          Can’t wait for a game to kick off…sick of this Izzy intrigue, and no matter what…rugby is certainly not the winner!

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          You’d hope so mate

    • Ian

      But do we have to play KB so that we have an indigenous player when we wear it?

      I say no, It is the heritage and origin of our country, the more we are comfortable embracing that the better I think. It is not about tokenisim (I made that word up I am pretty sure).

      • Who?

        You only made it up by spelling it incorrectly (you added an extra ‘i’ in the second last position – should be tokenism).
        .
        It’s worth noting that Beale didn’t play England last year (he was suspended, along with AAC, for violating team rules, though Cheika did reportedly consider dragging him back into the 23 when there was a last minute injury..?) when the team wore the indigenous jersey.

        • Kiwi rugby lover

          Grammar and spelling Nazi :-)

        • Who?

          You called me a Nazi – should I be offended?! :-P
          .
          I was actually trying to be supportive! :-D
          Trying to say it wasn’t a new word…

      • Brisneyland Local

        I agree we don’t have to. But pennies to a pound they will.

  • RF

    Fed up of the Izzy story.

    Good move with the Indigenous shirt.

    • Dylan Langes

      As I said the other day, I have a job to do, otherwise I wouldn’t be covering it. Im fed up too
      Im with you on the jersey

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Ditto. Not even commenting on it any more (Except for this post)

      • Brisneyland Local

        And whcih ever next one you make old boy

    • Huw Tindall

      I want a Folau trigger warning on all relevant GAGR posts so I can choose not to engage with this anymore -_-

      It’s a shit show and we need to let it run it’s course and then address the outcome. In the meantime lets talk about some actual rugby as there is plenty of interesting stuff going on!

      • onlinesideline

        good luck

  • idiot savant

    Ryano fix the problem, not the symptom. The Reds have to make so many tackles because they cant control the breakdown and keep turning the ball over. Thats where the coaching is needed. The Reds have been ordinary at the breakdown for the last 2 years. They can stop sides intent on slowing ball and creating messy ball and they get isolated and have technique problems in holding onto their own ball.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      I guess that’s what happens when you get rid of your best 7

      • HK Red

        Fark, don’t remind us!

        • Bernie Chan

          That’s a pain that won’t go away in a hurry…but only 1-of-several…

  • Timbo

    When the indigenous Jersey was worn a few years ago at the Bledisloe, I’d say that 99% of Australian fans wanted it to be the standard Jersey of the wallabies. Why they haven’t done that is beyond me and certainly would have more approval from the wider rugby community than the Folau/Cheika/insert other RA decision here fiascos goings on

    • Brisneyland Local

      Ah but then RA wouldnt be able to sell two types of jerseys and raise the meagre money that they can!

      • Timbo

        Well i guess 300 dollar bucks from 2 Jersey sales is going to pale into insignificance when they pay out Folau, get done for unlawful dismissal, have to reinstate him, lose their contract with Qantas and Joyce and have to find another major sponsor willing to deal with the three stooges Clyne, Castle and Cheika. Our sport is fucked isn’t it?

        • Brisneyland Local

          Timbo in a few senteces you have clearly outlined what is about to happen over the next 6-9 months. As that is how long this will take to pan out.
          Rugby is farked!
          Go the Rebs!

    • RF

      I’d question whether 99% wanted it as the standard jersey. I’d say most wanted it as a jersey to be work on certain occasions.

    • Mart

      And why do they have to lodge to wear it? can’t you just wear what ever you want?

      • No. Every team has an official home and away strip. They’re asking to wear a variant to that strip. If it’s a match like a Bledisloe Cup, you have to have the agreement of the two teams and WR will rubber stamp it. I guess if it’s part of TRC as the tournament organisers, they have a say too, but they’re unlikely to raise a comment if the two sides agree. At the RWC at least the event committee but possibly others have to agree – sponsors and so on that have a stake in it. As well as Uruguay of course.

  • A Dingo Stole My Rugby

    I know I’m probably swimming upstream on this one, but I don’t want the Indigenous jersey as our “standard” test shirt.

    I think the best way to preserve its status as a special occasion outfit is to hold it back and wear it sparingly. I’d suggest, as others have previously offered, that we wear it for our last home test each year, then on big days like a RWC semi and/or final (and not for our easiest pool match).

    Let’s honour what the jersey represents by making it’s appearance a unique experience. I would be ok with including the Aboriginal and TSI flags on the sleeve of the standard jersey as a lower-profile form of permanent recognition.

    Just my thoughts – happy to admit I’m probably in the minority.

    • RF

      I agree. It’s great for special occasions.

    • Kiwi rugby lover

      Maaaate disagreeing with each other is what this site is all about. I’d hate us all to agree. If it is only brought out for special occasions what do you suggest the criteria is for that?

      • Michael Chambers

        Only wear it if we win…. haha

    • Andy

      Bring back the old “orange” jersey I reckon. 91 replica. It’ll hide Fainga’s rig as well

      • Greg

        sorry?

        • Andy

          Don’t be

    • Huw Tindall

      It’s like your mum’s good silverware – only for special occasions

  • onlinesideline

    anyone know how to get rid of these “show more replies” ?

    its driving me lady gaga

    • disqus_NMX

      Tried to work that out too, but no luck. Freaking annoying.

  • AllyOz

    TBH I don’t mind the jersey and the symbolism but the game has probably had the lowest level of participation from Aboriginal Australians – we have one or two players a decade. – rugby league would have at least 10-15% of there a grade players from indigenous backgrounds- AFL probably more – if we are going to be realistic we should probably incorporate a pasifika design – that would be more representative of many of the players backgrounds

    • Pearcewreck

      Agreed.
      Maybe Izzy could tap into his cultural heritage to help design this pasfika jersey you speak of.

    • Who?

      We had three indigenous players on the field at once at some point in the last decade, I’m sure. Because I’m pretty certain the Fainga’a brothers have indigenous heritage, so combine them with Beale (which surely happened at some point) and you’ve got three at once – probably only the second grouping where that had happened (assuming the Ella brothers played together – just a little before my time)..?

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@DylanGLanges

Once captained the 3rds Rugby team, but then again so did Nick Farr-Jones

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